Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

[abitbroken]

that is really not a straight forward response to a direct question of "why are we not engaged yet". You both need to learn how to communicate better and more direct with each other. If I received this king of response to a direct question I would consider this evasive

 

Agree. If he says this, say "I want to marry you too. What timeframe are you thinking of?" If you do that, you could end up planning a wedding without a formal engagement at all. If he tells you a time of year, a month, etc, or "after I am done with my class" or whatever it may be whether it is an actual time (a month in particular) or a floating time (when his credit card is paid off, when he gets to know your dad better to ask for your hand, etc if you are doing that), then go with it and tell him what you need to do to make that happen on your end.

 

If he comes out and says he notices that things are tense lately between you - and he wants to work that out - if that is the answer, then don't freak out. Listen. And figure out how you can work that out (maybe admit that you have been tense because he hasn't proposed). If it can be worked out.

[Tanzi]

He says, but you don't know what I've been doing and for the last 2 months added I've been looking at proposals online.

 

The thing is he can say what he wants if he thinks his words will be enough for you to accept and drop the subject for a while. There is nothing in the above statement that is saying he is taking a marriage proposal seriously.

 

He has been planning major additional to his car, in the thousands of dollars, and it is all optional additions. It was one of the days we were talking about getting engaged and he said the above. We agreed it should be soon, but we've had that conversation before so go figure. After the conversation he started talking about getting the work on the car and the cost. I was not mean or hyper about it just said it normally, but I said it once and will ever say it once...if that car get upgraded before I do it will be a major problem and I mean it. He smiled and shook head up and down.

 

I'm sorry but this is not a marriage made in heaven. This is NOT how married life starts out ....with the woman badgering a man for a proposal, telling him he has to put her first before his car. If being married to you was important to him, he should want to do that anyway. Tinkering around on old cars at 46 instead of investing in a future together with you ... IDK ... has this man ever been ready for a serious life-long committment? Will he ever be?

 

When you say that you both agreed that it should be soon, I can't help but think that they were your words that he just agreed to or maybe said in a very flippant non-commital way ..... "Well, I guess it should be soon."

 

A loving relationship usually moves forward at the same pace and the couples in question are normally on the same page as each other, especially as far as marriage is concerned. Yes, marriage would have been discussed and they would both be building up to the point where they are both ready together, not where it has got to the point of feeling it is long overdue vs still holding holding back. That to me says the moment has never - and may never - be right. There have been opportunities for him to propose should he have wanted to (and I don't mean when he first called you his fiance) but he has let them pass.

 

Like I said previously when my ex-bf and I first met there was this amazing, instant chemistry that I had never felt before (not even having been married). Almost from the off-set we talked loosely (almost jokingly) about marriage, a beach wedding, the ring and how he wanted to be the one to arrange the wedding seeing as I had already been married. It was all lovely talk but, at that early stage, I knew it was honeymoon period talk and that we would have a long way to go before we knew if it was what we really wanted. With a 15 year age gap (with me being the older one), I knew it was unlikely and that reality would set in sooner rather than later (for him that is, I always knew we were on borrowed time but would lap up the soppy pillow talk anyway) and, eventually, it did. At that point he stopped talking about marriage, though he would still tell me he loved me. Nevertheless, we both knew we couldn't stay together so talk of marriage was pointless at this stage. I know my ex and I had issues within our age gap relationship that you don't have but what I'm trying to say is things can change in ANY relationship, no matter what the reason ... and what might have seemed like a good idea in the very beginning (when he was caught up in the dizzy heights of early romance) might not have the same appeal or urgency as time has gone on and emotions have calmed down.

 

No-one really knows the other at the very beginning of a relationship - or how well they are going to fit together - and I think the moment you told him you loved him and then immediately expected a proposal a red flag went up and he felt the need to put the breaks on. The difference between both your declarations of love and wanting to be married is that he called you his fiance in a "safe period" when you can almost get away with it being said flippantly or cheekily ... but then it got serious and the once independent, stand-offish woman that was reeling him in suddenly became this needy, desperate woman who has continued to nag him for a proposal. It is no wonder he has begun to change his mind. Why, after having realised you loved him, couldn't you have just enjoyed the love you had for each other and let it flourish, instead of clumsily trampling over it and near destroying it.

 

Putting your early fluffy talk aside, when two people first tell each other they love each other it doesn't mean that either of them are ready for marriage the next day. They still have a journey together. Some people even like to have long engagements ..... no rush is necessary. They know they love each other, they know what they want but they are happy to enjoy the journey beforehand instead of putting such an enormous pressure on it. If something is real, then it is worth waiting for. If you go ahead and plan a wedding, when would you plan it for? ASAP, likely. Meaning you would have been together for around two years before being married. Whilst I think this is perfectly OK, I also think it is perfectly OK to just be boyfriend and girlfriend at this stage too, if either one or the other doesn't feel ready. Yes there are other external factors like his age and your age that could be adding to your urgency but they are separate issues - though maybe not ones to disregard.

 

I'm sorry if I have come accross as harsh but I think you have fool-hardly sprinted ahead, leaving him behind and now that you are nagging him to catch up you are in danger of pushing him away.

 

I did not tell him, but if it does happen I will not waste my breath on inquiring I will literally become a ghost to him as in never even bother to speak again because he would have spoken loud and clearly.

 

.... and still he continues tinkering.

 

 

It is interesting that all your suggestions put the reaponsibility on me ... not this is a factor in my case although you present it as if it was but you say I would be responsible should downgrade what make me happy as far as ring instead of the guy wanting to make the the woman hapoy. I should temper my feelings abiut him putting a perfectly fine 2 yr old car car befor me.

 

So I am curious about what you think is a the guy's responsibility to a woman he has professed lkve and marriage and engagement to but missed an engagement timeframe without saying a word. What is the guy's responsibility for talking about. And general what in your view any responsibility on what the guy should be doing ot saying during this time while the woman tip toe around the subject, which if the guy is not serious is to his benefit and her detriment?

 

No, what we are trying to say is, regardless of whether he is right or wrong, you need to understand that there is a reason why the proposal hasn't happened yet .... and that reason may very well be because it isn't what he wants anymore or isn't as ready as he once thought he was. If this is the case then going ahead and planning a wedding is going to be a very bad idea. That is what we are trying to make you see.

 

We can all agree that he was acting immaturely in the beginning, we can all agree that he has a responsibility to sit down and discuss your future together seriously instead of continuously fobbing you off (which I feel he is doing) but the bottom line is, you can't force someone to marry you, whether he has acted irresponsbily or not. At this point, YOU have a responsibility to act sensibly and rationally.

 

Until the point he has proposed to you and you are engaged to be married, he has no obligation to you. That is what being engaged is all about .... it is the promise of marriage. Until then you are an everyday couple who may flippantly talk of marriage for the future. You can't pin him to what he once said if he has never acted on it.

 

You aren't living together, you aren't having sex .... don't you think if this man thought he had found his life partner, he would be rushing a wedding through right now.

 

We have talk always talk same response I love you, my feelinga never changed and I want to marry you or some variation of that

 

.... and he will continue to say that because, for a while, it keeps you quiet. The truth is he isn't prepared to act on it. The responsibility you have is to understand that there is a reason for this and to try talk properly about your future without making it about when he is going to propose.

[PrincessBOT]

@All I am read every comment some twice and from the bottom of my heart I thank each and every one of you for taking the time to read my issue and respond ao thoroughly. This long, but you all deserve follow up.

 

You all were right about not planning the wedding, but to talk to him again. I didn't come out and just say we need to talk about it. While we were having dinner I started another subject that led to the subject.

 

After a whole day and a half of almost straight talking, breaking for food and sleep I found out.

 

1. He will back track and even fabricate instead of being honest about proposing. When we'd previously spoke I asked him where did he see us in 6 monyhs and he told it me was thinking of asking me the same thing then said he sees us engaged (which I now see was him telling me what I wanted to hear). Then I asked where do you see us in 2 months and aaid engaged again and then asked me what size wedding I want.

 

I asked him several times what happened that stopped him from proposing what was wrong. He thought and never answered he would just start talking about when I was upset and bought it up a month later. I finally assured him will talk about the month later but would like to go in time sequence because my actions a month later was caused by his inaction the month prior. He said ok and I asked again what is wrong that you did not propose when you said and never said anything. He thought again and still never answered. What he said next shocked me and showed me a side of his character that almost made me despise him. He said I said "possibly" married in 2 months.

 

He never said possibly even when we had the conversation a month later he didn't say he said possibly he even admitted he should have said something. However at that time I didn't ask him directly and precisely as I did this time. So this time he flat out fabricates one word possibly that allow him out and to this day he still never answered the question because possibly gave him an out. I even asked after back and forth and even reading my journal to him of that conversation when he did not say possibly I said ok well possibly means you could have why didn't you?

 

His next response was he was going to propose between Valentines dau and my birthday which are a little over a month apart. So I asked him so you have the ring he said why are you asking. I said because if you were going to propose you wouls havw the ring he said no, I aaked if he has the money he said yes and asked me didn't I see all the ring catalogs around that was because he went to those places. It confirmed thay he purposely left them laying around for me to see because he would have hid them if he wanted it to be a surprise.

 

2. He told me he actually wants to live together before we marry and because I won't he is not willing to go forward because I want things my way. I realized he was reflecting what he was doing on me. He was the one who wanted it his way and had basically started a private power struggle. The truth is previously told him when we get married we because I would feel spiritually and morally convicted otherwise. I thought he a a formee church head who counseled couplea according to the Bible and living righteously would understand. Instead he totally stuck to what he wanted. I guess he is former church head and left for a reason.

 

He mentioned it a few more timea and eventually I said if we are engaged and prepaaring for maariage then I can s moving in during that time. That was not good for him he never budge even though I met him 1/2 way yet he said I was the one that wanted things my way. I bought this to his attention.

 

He told me that I should talk to my friend and he'd asked one of my close frienda to talk to me because I have to have things my way or no way. Which I disagreed bexause as I stated above I compromised he didn't budge on the living together. So since said I should speak to people. We ended up call my brother in law and his best friend who is a priest on speaker, both of them said as a Christians we should not move in before marriage and both and both said I should not move in with him. His friend added added that the only way he could see us moving in before marriage is if either one of us were having financual difficulty. He askes us if we are and I said no, my boyfriend didn't respond just looked at me and since he never said anything to me about that, always sends money to his family and spends without issue I said no foe him to. So his friend said my position is clear you should not he told me that he will talk to my boyfriend about it later and for me not to worry.

 

When we hung up with his friend he said to me that his friend was always for me so he knew he would say that, but thay he will just tell him his position. My boyfriend confirmed that he as 0 concern about my spiritual conviction it us more imprtant for him to try to live together to find out something he believes may be hidden or something I don't know than it ia for him to make up his mind to commit to us.

 

So as many have said on here it is clear although his worda say one thing he will not publicly commit by propoaing because he flat out just isn't ready and may never be ready to marry me or any else if he ia 46, never married and has a son.

 

In addition, it is almost embarrassing to call up people to basically try and tell this man what he should and does already know but choses to reject and have them know he will not commit. It was almost as if they were convincing he...this from a man that professes love and commitment and talks about our future. And if he is so immature to rebel for the sake of not being told what to so at 46 then he needs to be alone until grows up maybe at 56 smh.

 

The good things is that although my friends and familu went from he ia moving to fast to what is taking him so long I have not really gone into detail about it. He told me several of his friends also were asking him what is taking so long to propose. So I was dealing with it mostly in silence, but with him bringing people in by going to my friend who didn't know and telling her to talk to me about having things my way which ended in us talking to other about our relationship and he not moving forward because I won't live with him first,now people close to us know where the problem lies. Third friend, the one who got engaged after 7 months told us to come have dinner with them because my boyfriend has to underatand the differences and that if she had an issue with moving in before marriage he fiance would have went ahead and proposes because it would make hee happy. She said my boyfriend needs to hear it from another man. She is right and I am distraught that people have to tell him this and that my boyfriend just may need to find some with the non Christian values he has versus those he let me believe he understood and would live by.

 

Now that my close friends and family know, I have their support and I don't have to worry about telling them and feeling like a failure he did me a service bu bringing them in and his self a disservice. I guess he was going ro rely on them asking me when when when are you going to get married to have to them tell me go ahead and do what he says, but it was the opposite.

 

By the end of our marathon 24 hour talk the sweet man I know returned and he opened up and told me it ia also because he ia not happy in his career life and that bleeds into him not being happy in other areas like with us. I think he feels unachieved career wise, he has a doctorate PhD but has not been able to find work in his field and where he works while it pays a living is not even close to using hia skills or any skills really. I think he feels powerless there and feels the need to be powerful in the relationship by withholding and reflecting on me. Maybe he feel like a failure career wise and doesn't trust his judgement there he doean't trust hia judgment in the relationahip and fears making the wrong decison. Or it could me another excuse to waste more time.

 

I told him testing the waters before marriage does make a successful marriage or guarantee any level if success. There are people who lived together before marriage and it still failed and some that dis not live together bedor amd failed just like there are successes on either end. It is not what you do it is the commitment that makes the difference people who commit and stick to it are successful.

 

We talked a few more hours and then I went home I was drained. Before I left he said I heard everything you said and we are going to work through this.

 

My plan is to let him know that as I that I will let him have his space to figure it out, but this time I will not be there. I won't be around like I was because he will just let things go back to normal and another few months will pass. This time I will let him experience and make his decisions without me in the picture and I will be making mine . I love him and it hurts but he will waste no more of my time because he loves me as he says then this should not have come to this and he needs to figure out. I also need to rethinks things after all that was said and has happened.

 

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[Batya33]

I don't think you two are on the same page at all about marriage.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't think you two are on the same page at all about marriage.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree with Batya on this one.

[Batya33]

Your plan sounds fine except for one thing -you're not just giving him space you're ending things, right? Or do you mean that you won't date or look to date anyone else while you give him space?

[PrincessBOT]

Your plan sounds fine except for one thing -you're not just giving him space you're ending things, right? Or do you mean that you won't date or look to date anyone else while you give him space?

 

 

It would sound great and look pretty strong of me if I said I am ending things, but I would be lying to you and to myself. I will expect that neither one us will of date or see anyone else during that time. We talked for a whole day plus, I was not exaggerating, we only stopped to eat and sleep for few hours the night before and the a few hours the next eve. So I feel at this point everything has been said, but if it is just a fear hurdle that he needs to get over I want to give us a chance, without falling back into the cycle, thus the space. However, if it not just a fear hurdle and something I don't want fall back into the normal cycle and wind up here again with the only difference being more months passed.

[abitbroken]

Whoa- just a minute. Bringing friends in to solve your differences is not healthy in a relationship and not a good precedent to start. Going to a counselor is one thing, or one going to a mentor with the knowledge of the other, but having friends take sides and "now everyone knows" is not a way to hold a partner accountable. Meeting with friends who will tell them he should make you happy and why they got engaged so quick is not a good solution. It looks like steamrolling. In setting a boundary (this case not moving in together) its not to manipulate them into your way - but to calmly state your boundary with no drama, and going from there. I highly recommend "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend on the subject from a Christian perspective. I remember listening to the tapes and there was a good example about a woman who was married to a man who was viewing porn that was affecting their marriage. She said something to the affect of "if you want to watch porn. Then that is okay. But as long as you do, I am sleeping in the other room" No crying, no tears, no daily conversation after she set her boundary. She was so matter of fact and she stuck to it every night. He eventually was motivated to kick it - her boundary was the wake up call. If she had asked every night while snuggling with him, he could "yes" her to death, or if she THREATENED to sleep apart or go to "mother's house" - he could talk her out of it or call her bluff or it would just create a push/pull - or it would not solve the problem because she would be leaving HER home and that isn't right.

 

If you break up or stay together, it should not be your army against his. In fact, I think that does way more harm than good and it will be difficult for him to save face. Accusing him of being un-Christian is not helpful either. You both are not perfect.

 

I think if he came out and told you a long time ago that he didn't feel where he needs to be career wise, that is something you could work with or decide whether you wanted to proceed with him for the next year or what form of relationship you would accept. But at this stage, it does feel like stalling. It could be valid if he career changed from deacon to public employment, and set a timeline to get on track, but why did it NOT come out in marital counseling early on??? Did you not hear it or did he not say it?

 

I think he is not "wrong" to want to stabilize but he is NOT on the same marriage track you are for sure.

 

I think you have some important answers. I think it is best to let it sit for a minute and give him space.

 

My plan is to let him know that as I that I will let him have his space to figure it out, but this time I will not be there. I won't be around like I was because he will just let things go back to normal and another few months will pass. This time I will let him experience and make his decisions without me in the picture and I will be making mine . I love him and it hurts but he will waste no more of my time because he loves me as he says then this should not have come to this and he needs to figure out. I also need to rethinks things after all that was said and has happened.

 

I think that now that everything is on the table - there were a lot of assumptions on BOTH of your parts. I think what you need to do is give him space. You both need to cool off. But don't add the "but you can think about it alone because i am leaving forever." He heard you now. Now the ball is in his court. Don't ask him about proposing. Go about your business. And talk to him if he has something meaningful to say - that will prevent you from going back into your old routine but giving him a chance to process and come back with any sort of decision or thoughts (i take it you didn't break up that night - you just went to your separate corners -unless you did break up). I think if you decide to break up with him, you should break up officially rather than disappearing and making him chase.

 

I think whether he comes back and proposes or you both decide to end things, or have a cooling off period, for your personal self, you need to work on your communication skills. A relationship has two people in it - and not a committee of opinion makers. Having a good support system for a couple is good - but not if it is designed to tear one down or to try to force action. The more direct you can be about your own feelings, the less you will rely on a "committee" to carry through your point.

[PrincessBOT]

@abitbroken I felt really embarrassed about bringing my family and friends into this. My friend said the same that you said, there should not be so many people in our business. It should be between him and me. But he was the one that went to my friend and talked about us, after that I just felt like fine he wants me to talk to me people fine.

 

No we didn't break up that night. It was never my intention to break up, not to say that I have not come to grips with the idea that it may lead to that.

 

I have the Boundaries workbook, is that the one you are talking about or is there a text type book that goes with the workbook? If there is a text book to go with the workbook I did not see it when I was buying the workbook. I am going to read it.

 

I didn't accuse him of being unChristian. It's just that I am not perfect, but I trying to live my life according to the Bible and righteously and he said that although he'd fallen away he was at a point in his life where he wanted to do so also. He said I actually was helping him. Yet when it comes down to doing what he knows is the Christian way to live and have a relationship he wants no part of it. So I am not accusing him I am saying I don't want to be led me away from the Christian way. The reality is that the guy I dated before him was Christian because he was raised Christian and although he was a very good person he was not a practicing Christian. However, he loved and respected me enough that he put more importance on not leading me away from Christian ways and respecting and upholding my spiritual convictions. So much so that he told me it's okay if you sleep in the other bedroom when you come over. We live about 70 miles apart so I or he needed to travel and if we were to see each other and the trip there and back in one day not always good. However, my former head of the Church, taught sermons from the Bible, counseled people and couples boyfriend is stuck on us sleeping in the same bed and even demanding that we live together before marriage or even engagement. Those are facts not accusations, he is not being Christian in those acts and even so I have come 1/2 way out of love and can go no further for fear of losing myself and falling.

 

It is definitely time for space, but it will be difficult without just flat out saying I will not be around. However, I think that after our talk the night before and yesterday, he wants and needs space and I too. After he told me last night that he heard me and we are going to work through it, I said things cannot go back to the norm. He shook his head to say okay, which at this point means absolutely nothing,because I see that he can flake and flip flop. One of his bad characteristic, but the good ones are what make this so hard to give up on.

 

I am on the fence about the telling him I will not be there during the space. I did take it as all or nothing, but as I thought more about it I realized it might do more harm than good to the relationship because I can't say that I am 100% done. I will not go to his house as much and I definitely will not sleep over. It was actually an automatic today. Normally I would prepare clothes to take with me to work so I could to his house for tonight. I didn't even think to do it, my subconscious knew I was coming home tonight. I was surprised when I realized it had not even crossed my mind.

 

Also, I will not mention anything about engagement or marriage or entertain any talks about the future. We've talked and at this point only action means anything. I think I just have to give myself a solid timeframe that I will go to and stick to it.

 

Believe it or not I am the communicator in the relationship. I only talked to my sister about all that was going on and when I wanted additional help I came here. He was the one that went to my friend behind my back and talked about it and told her to talk to me as he was telling her to talk to me about something positive. I am always very direct about my feelings to him. It was only after talking and communicating and going circles that I looked for actions, like to start planning a wedding before he propose, to prompt action because it seemed like talking was getting nowhere taking us in circles. People literally say anything and then say something different the next day and that was the case with my boyfriend and moving forward.

[Tanzi]

I don't think he needs to hear anything from another man. I can't see what it will offer, other than him having someone else push him into something he isn't ready for. Your friend's fiancé (or husband as he may now be) was obviously 100% sure it was what he wanted at the time he proposed and, who knows, maybe that was because they had lived together and shared their lives together already.

 

I think that he has a commitment phobia (which would explain why he has never been married or lived with anyone before - even the woman he had a child with) and although there is a part of him that would like to be engaged, there is an even bigger part that is just too scared to go forward with it. He has been on his own a long time. I think this is far too big a thing for him to do without at least trying to live together first. However that doesn't sit well with you and your Christian values.

 

I think your compromise of getting engaged and then living together is as good a compromise as you can come up with in this situation, providing you aren't rushing into marriage or marriange plans, but if he still can't bring himself to be engaged to you so that you can live together then I think this has nothing to do with needing to live with you beforehand and everything to do with him possibly never being able to make a life long commitment to someone.

 

I really don't see you two as compatible. You really are on totally separate pages. It could be that he will never be on the same page as anyone when it comes to marriage but marriage aside, is he ever going to support your Christian and spiritual beliefs or convictions. At his stage, however, I think spending time apart so he can figure this out and is the best way forwards, whatever may come of it and I think, as you say, you need give yourself some time to reflect over all that was said. I'm sorry that it has come to this but it can't carry on in limbo.

[Batya33]

It would sound great and look pretty strong of me if I said I am ending things, but I would be lying to you and to myself. I will expect that neither one us will of date or see anyone else during that time. We talked for a whole day plus, I was not exaggerating, we only stopped to eat and sleep for few hours the night before and the a few hours the next eve. So I feel at this point everything has been said, but if it is just a fear hurdle that he needs to get over I want to give us a chance, without falling back into the cycle, thus the space. However, if it not just a fear hurdle and something I don't want fall back into the normal cycle and wind up here again with the only difference being more months passed.

 

"Just a fear hurdle?". He doesn't want to marry you - whether it's fear, or the way you wear your hair or squeeze the toothpaste or his feelings about you or marriage-who cares -fact is he has changed his mind about marrying you and doesn't know if/when he will change his mind again. He doesn't know if he will ever be ready to marry you. Certainly if you want you can put your life on hold and wait for him (if he is sincere about wanting to work on this and not date other people) but from all you've written it sounds like a waste of time especially since you want to try to have biological children.

[Fudgie]

You need to accept that this man, for whatever reason, doesn't want to marry you. He's made it pretty clear. He dodges questions, says what you want to hear to placate you, and when you get upset, he plays semantics games. If you want biological children, it's not going to happen with him. Why waste your time with him?

[PrincessBOT]

The love that I see in his eyes, the way he treats me, and the things he does for me. The exception and main thing I will focus on is the lack of honor for my spiritual and moral values and difference, which has been newly revealed to me during this process. He is a really stubborn person and has allowed that to spill over, which I never thought he would for somethings so important to me. But right now I can't leave him and I can't stay the way I was. I can't do anything more so I won't, I will just be. If that means he truly doesn't want to marry me and he accepts that and leave then that is what will happen. If he realizes he truley loves me and wants to marry then that is what will happen. This is what the space will allow and in the interim I will do and say nothing about it. He and I both will know that the more time that passes one or both of us will eventually drop off. I just pray and hope if it happens enough time has passed that the expectations and hope will be far removed enough to lessen the hurt and dissappointment. I also pray and hope that if he is sincere and we are able to move forward that this would have made us stronger.

 

 

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[Fudgie]

A man can love you and still not want to marry you. Don't forget that. Marriage does not always equal love. There are many men out there who don't want to get married and/or have children for many reasons but they can still love you, be committed to you, be monogamous, and do nice things for you.

 

I want to ask you this: If he were to keep loving you and doing nice things for you and being your boyfriend but you two would NEVER marry or have children, would you still stay with him?

 

Is staying with him more important than marriage?

 

There is no right or wrong answer here. It's just something to think about.

[icecreamaddict]

I started off reading some of your posts and skipped to the end... in the beginning I just thought you were crazy. Why would you start to plan a wedding when you aren't even engaged? Giving your bf and ultamatim would have been a horrible idea because if both love each other and feel secure in the relationship you would not have any anxiety or doubt. Then I skipped to the end and it seems that your bf just doesn't know what he wants. It seems like you have a decision to make - you can stay with him but you may not get the marriage you want because you can't force him into it or you cean leave and search for the type of relationship you want.

[PrincessBOT]

@Fudgie That would probably never happen, he really wants more kids and soon. He would literally rub my stomach and talk about our child being in there. He would leave before it just went on like that. The reality is that the ball is in his court I am not too strong headed to admit that. So it is up to him and I doubt he would let it go that way without leaving.

 

What I do realize and accept and should have before now since he has a son without being married is that he may not place as much value on being married to have kids. Maybe he portrayed that because of my values but when it comes down to thw line he won't move forward because he expecting me move backward, live with him first etc.

 

Either way it is up to him, but it will not stay that way forever and we both know that time passing will not allow it.

 

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[Fudgie]

How long are you going to "give him space" and see what happens before you decide to move on and pursue something else?

 

I think you should give yourself a "personal deadline" so you make sure that you're not wasting time.

[PrincessBOT]

@Fudgie I am tryjng to determine that, but it will depend on what I see and feel during this time. He said "we" work through it, this issue our differenences. Fully plan to do that, but only as much as he initiates and it is truly a move forward.

 

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[Batya33]

I wouldn't use these lofty terms about honor/morals/values. Much simpler than that. You want to get married and start a family. He doesn't want to marry you and doesn't know if/when he ever will. That is all -the extra verbage/abstractions just distract you from making a decision and deciding how long you will wait for him to change his mind. The way he looks at you and treat you might indeed be in loving ways but that's separate from the issue of your very different life goals.

[OptomisticGirl]

The problem with that first sentence is he HAS had a child out of marriage. You can't say never in this situation (because it has happened before).

[abitbroken]

@abitbroken I felt really embarrassed about bringing my family and friends into this. My friend said the same that you said, there should not be so many people in our business. It should be between him and me. But he was the one that went to my friend and talked about us, after that I just felt like fine he wants me to talk to me people fine.

 

The crazy train stops when you don't approach things as a for tat. Its a little immature for someone to do something and then to say "well, fine, if you did it, now i am doing it!!!" it solves absolutely nothing. If someone does something you don't agree with, then don't agree with, but two wrongs don't make a right. It would have been appropriate for you to seek counsel of one close friend/mentor, but to magnify with a variety of people does not help. You say you are the "communicator", but it just means you communicate more, it doesn't mean your communication style is "better". Whether you stay with him or find someone else, you can't use that type of revenge tactic. A "i was hurt that you told x about our problems..." or setting a boundary first off about what is acceptable. Someone should be allowed to confide in a friend, though, discreetly.

 

I have a feeling that this is all breaking down - and I agree - get rid of the rhetoric about if its moral or not and focus on the basic - you are hot to get married, he is not so hot to get married.

[PrincessBOT]

@icecreamaddict I agree and that is why I will not just leave. I don't plan to force him. I will stay with him, but with the space we both need at this point. I don't plan to ever mention marriage or engagement again unless he brings it up and we are talking specifics. Even then we will still need to work on our spiritual ideals. As I said in another post it is up to him at this point, but we both know that will not be forever or even for long. As for having the relationship/marriage I want, very few have either exactly the way they want. Committment is what I want and we need.

 

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[Batya33]

You want commitment. He does not and you don't get to tell him what he "needs". He's a big boy. If you stay in this relationship you are not giving him any space to miss you or experience what life is like without you. It's your choice of course, your time to spend as you choose. The "very few have things exactly as they want" is irrelevant - we're all discussing the risks and benefits of your particular approach and choices here.

[PrincessBOT]

@Batya it is not that simple. Because he is not ready does not mean he will not. There are stories all over of women who had to basically drag the man to the alter and in the end they were happy. I read in another forum where the woman had to give him an ultimatum after he met it when he proposes he cried and apologized for putting her through that and told her how much he truly loved her. Her determination and not giving up on him due to his reservations endeared her to him. He was just one of those drag'um guys. So I strongly think not being ready could mean not ready right now as much as it could mean not ready ever. I also don't think it means we can never get in sync. We have love, 1.5 years and it now about how much time we allow to determine if we can do it and move forward or not.

 

The space is a difference and akin to separation for two people who are use to speading so much time together. A full breakup just makes it much farther we have to come back from to move from. It is the final and I am not there yet and neither is he.

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[icecreamaddict]

@icecreamaddict I agree and that is why I will not just leave. I don't plan to force him. I will stay with him, but with the space we both need at this point. I don't plan to ever mention marriage or engagement again unless he brings it up and we are talking specifics. Even then we will still need to work on our spiritual ideals. As I said in another post it is up to him at this point, but we both know that will not be forever or even for long. As for having the relationship/marriage I want, very few have either exactly the way they want. Committment is what I want and we need.

 

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I'm confused. How do go from: I'm going to plan the wedding and show it to him to... I'll be with him and never mention marriage or engagement? You should not settle if you watn the commitment, marriage, kids etc... and he doesn't then you are going to unhappy.