Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

[icecreamaddict]

But that's the overlying problem here: you equate marriage with love. Some people can have them separate for their whole lives but some can't. You two are not on the same page. He may love you but he doesn't want to marry you. He's made it clear.

 

Exactly! I t sounds like he does love you and care about you but doesn't want the same things as you.

[Batya33]

But that's the overlying problem here: you equate marriage with love. Some people can have them separate for their whole lives but some can't. You two are not on the same page. He may love you but he doesn't want to marry you. He's made it clear.

 

Completely agree -been on both sides of the issue.

[Fudgie]

I'm not sure why you think waiting for the next few years will help. There is no real significance to a man turning 50. It's not going to necessarily make him go "wow, I need to get married!". Men do not have the stereotypical "biological clocks" that women have. They aren't on a biological timeline like you are. Oh, and he already has HAD a child...so it's not like he needs to get going on having kids because he already has one and has experienced that - it may be enough for him.

 

Again, you are putting way too much significance on his words and not his actions. "He has said that he wants to marry me." Just because a man SAYS he wants to marry you doesn't mean he actually wants to marry you or even that he will do it. His actions, both past and present, indicate his true feelings.

 

stop going by his words and go by his actions.

[PrincessBOT]

@her Interesting point of view. However, I think love is an integral part of two peolple deciding to marry and spend their lives together. Couples do fall out of love and it SEEMS that there is no chance or hope. But how do you explain reconciliations and divorced couples remarrying?

 

I just believe we are in a better place to overcome the obstacle we are at since we do still have love. Also he has and repeatedly told me "I want to marry you" and not a year ago. But last week, but again his reservations and wanting me to live together first etc. We have also discussed our future repetedly and made plans. So our love has made me believe him and that we need to get past these obstacles. As I said everyone can't have the fairytale engagement, but thar doesn't mean that the marriage and life is not possible.

 

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[PrincessBOT]

@fudgie I am in no way waiting the next few years. This will be decided within the next few months, in 6 months it will make 2 years. I wrote a post on page 17 I believe about my plan.

 

Also, a man can mean what he says when he says he want to marry just as it does not mean it may actually happen. It is intentions and what happens in the middle is what determines it. This is the middle.

 

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[hers]

Again...actions, not words. You truly are not understanding what we are saying.

[PrincessBOT]

@ fudgie. His actions, the main one, a proposal could change at anytime especially since he has made his intentions clear, granted his reservations not so clear and painstaking to get out of him, but now I have some idea I want to give us a chance and a few more months is worth it.

 

Did you read that I found out that last month he told my friend in frustration that he and I should have been engaged a long time ago but I want things my way or no way? I did not appreciate him doing that but he was trying. In his mind I am holding us up . We have to work through that and him wanting to love together first and on good terms, which is why I am laying off the subject for a bit.

 

In the end it may not happen , but (I write this with a smile) it also may happen.

 

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[Fudgie]

I see nothing in his actions that indicates that he wants to get married at all. Perhaps I am wrong: where in his actions (note: not words, not conversations) do you think he is saying "I want to get married". Remember, it's easy to sit down as a couple to make plans and say "well we can do x, y, z..." that's talking, not doing.

 

Or more specifically, what is it about this guy that makes you want to give him a chance? What gives you hope that his reluctance will go away?

 

Either way, I'm glad you're going to wait a few months, not years. It would be really sad to see you wait any more than a few months.

[itsallgrand]

I read this entire thread.

 

I think it would be wise of you to freeze your eggs now then if having the option of having biological kids is as important to you as you make it seem in this thread.

 

Second thing is, I think you need to accept that this man likes having you as a girlfriend, but doesn't want you as a wife. It really is as simple as that.

[PrincessBOT]

@fudgie The waiting for more years is a no no. As far as his actions to marriage there has been none which is the admitted problem, but I don'tbelieve signifies the end. So his actions have been none except that when I mentioned it to him a couple of months ago he told I don't know what he has been doing. He said that he was looking online at proposals and other things. He also said that he said we would possibly be engaged in 2 months, but definitely in 6 months. But he didn't say that he said we'd be engaged in 2 months and it will be 6 months from that next months. I don't know if the events/talks of the last week has changed anything, but either way, 2 or 6 month up so we should be engaged by next month if he is man of his word. We will see.

 

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[Batya33]

I second the egg freezing alternative (which I think I wrote several pages up as well and am glad Itsallgrand revived that topic!)

[PrincessBOT]

@itsallgrand I can't win , when I told him about an appt to learn more about freezing the eggs, he got upset. He said who was going to fertilize the eggs, he said that is something I should have discussed with him to see if he agreed that he would want to. Since I didn't it seems that I am not committed to him. I was shocked I was looking into it because we were not engaged in 2 months like he said, my 36th birthday was approaching and I could not rely on him doing what he said in the timeframe he said. He now says he said we would be engaged in 6 months. But if that were true does he really have to wait til the very last day of the very last month to do so.

 

So all that to say the egg freezing became another issue and added on to hia list of reservations. I may still go forward and just not tell him, but if he finds out it would it may be the be the nail in the coffin for him.

 

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[hers]

"Said said said says says say say say say"

 

He's still not ACTING like he wants to marry you. A proposal is not the only action.

[Batya33]

He has absolutely no say on any practical or ethical level on whether you choose to freeze eggs for later. Fertilization is another issue - if you are married at the time you choose to create an embryo then yes he would have a say in how that would be accomplished. I suppose even if you were engaged with a wedding date I could see where his feelings would matter on the issue. But now? I think you can get it done without telling him.

[Fudgie]

I don't understand why he's upset at all. They're YOUR eggs. Freezing your eggs is your own choice and should be your own choice. He can fertilize them in a tube with his own sperm if you both decide on that later. Women freeze eggs as a way to protect the possibility of them having biological children in the future.

 

The only, and I mean ONLY reason that I could see a man objecting to this would be that he is controlling and doesn't want you to take your own fertility into your own hands.

 

As hers said, your response to my question was a lot of "he says this/he said that". I see no action. Claiming to look up "proposals online" (whatever that means) is not an action. Those are words.

[itsallgrand]

I agree with Batya. Not his call. He hasn't proposed, you are not engaged, you have no wedding set, you aren't pregnant nor planning a child together. Heck, you two don't even know right now if you will be still together in a bit yet.

 

And this choice has implications for your life, down the road, that can not be turned back. Think longer term, IMO, not just what is going on right now.

[Batya33]

As you write more and more overanalysis and verbage about this issue it's becoming clear to me that you're getting some benefit from being in limbo. Try to look deep inside and figure out why you're choosing to get in your own way. You can write all you want about your master plan but since that plan involves several unreasonable assumptions about him, marriage, relationships, fertility, to name a few huge topics (again JMHO) I suspect this lady doth protest too much.

 

So what is it - fear of being alone? confirmation that you're the "victim" of men who supposedly string you along? perhaps your own fears of commitment? that negative attention from this man is better than apathy? Figure it out and that might help you make clearer decisions and take clearer actions

[PrincessBOT]

@fudgie and @ hers I fully agree. I am giving it the time and plan I posted previously to see if that changes. It will be clear because no talks about it so only actions will be the only thing that is clear as well as the lack of action. If there is none I will then take space a apart and that may very well end in permanently breaking up.

 

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[PrincessBOT]

@Batya I get no benefit of the such. I have life experiences like everyone I have learned from them, been scarred by some, enlightened by others. None of them make this current situation beneficial. I came here originally to get an opinions on my plan to get OUT of limbo and it has evovled as time has passed things have progressed and my relationship continues since we are not broken up.

 

I thanks to all who contributes, you included, because it helped me avoid a mistake in starting to plan a wedding before proposal, but has also calmed me and helped me form other ideas and in my conversations with my boyfriend and get othee perspectives. But I know I have all the info whereas I just can't relay it all to you all even if I tried. So I take what you all have said with what I know and made decisions.

 

I have to admit...I hope this ends with me engaged and this forum post as a history of the process helps the next person in a similar situation. Because when I came on and searched I didn't find anything that quite helped with what I was planning. That said I also realize it could end the opposite way and I will be in the break up forums and I do value the input here that is prepping me for that if/when it is needed.

 

 

 

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[abitbroken]

I definitely agree and after a week or so I do plan to bring up the communication issue. I find it amazing how he can talk the talk, but not walk the walk.

 

Nope. Don't "bring up the communication problem." Just communicate better. This means no telling eachother's friends stuff. It has to start with you. Don't let the rumor mill tell him what you think or feel. Him telling your friend you should have been engaged months ago but its your fault is totally not supportive. It is passive aggressive, it is going outside of the relationship and what it is really doing is throwing you just enough of a bread crumb so you will stick around. You have communicated passive aggressively too and only recently have spoken your true mind.

 

You just had a big talk with this guy and he is probably scared that you will leave, but throwing you a breadcrumb of hope like that instead of acting is what he does. He is also placing blame on you instead of being upfront and telling you he is just not ready or doesn't want to. And please consider that a bigger sign of what a possible marriage between the two of you will be like. Do you really want that environment? I get the feeling that your marriage will consist of you being upset, him minimizing your upsetness and portraying you to "the boys" or "the family" as pushy, unreasonable "having Aunt Flo visit" or whatever while stating that he really wants something to be x but you are impassable (even though you want what x is)

 

On your end also, you have to state your case and stick with it. You have to walk the walk too. Now you had the talk - so walk. That means he doesn't get to "watch you sleep", you go home to your place when you are tired, you go home after work even if it is closer and give him his space NOT have everything the same ...just you not talking about the engagement. Right now it appears you have laid off on engagement but have given him total access like before. If you decide that you want to see him, then see him for a short period of time and do nothing longtime girlfriendy. You won't live together or move forward without engagement and I guess he is not moving forward so neither should you.

 

It is not a "wrong" answer if he tells you he is not ready to marry or never wants to. It is a sincere one and you should welcome his candor if he believes that. And then you make your decision based on that.

 

Honestly, i think after a year and a half you are just beginning to learn who eachother is and you don't like what you are seeing. You had this image of him as this righteous, holy man (just shy of an out of wedlock kid - everyone makes mistakes but he is not right there with the kid trying to be a hands on father), and now you are realizing he is not like you thought. Instead of being "fair" and "wise" he is deflecting a lot and you don't have as much respect for what he wants. You thought you knew.

 

I think you have the wrong idea of this being a journey to engagement and your best outcome is getting engaged. Your best outcoming:

 

1) you learn not to triangulate. (complaing to person B in hopes they will cause person C to act).

2) You learn to be comfortable with you alone.

3) engagement means nothing - marriage is what is important. You should be preparing to marry, not having the ring as the prize.

4) Marry a man who is on the same page as you - but loves, values and respects you. It may be that you have to work on your relationship or it may mean you need to find someone else. I wouldnt put up with triangulation, etc, but you are dishing it out also.

[PrincessBOT]

@abitbroken WOW!!!! WOW!!! WOW!!!! So true.

 

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