Online Dating for the 2nd Time - A Journal

[NorthDallas40]

FREDA looked just as great as her photos last night, and we had a 1.5 hour meal that was full of conversation and laughing, with no awkward moments at all. She’s not close to her parents who are ultra-conservative, nor her 35-yo failed-to-launch brother who lives with them. However, she’s best friends with her ex-cop-turned-wine-shop-owner older sister and seems to have a good circle of friends outside of that.

 

Demeanor-wise, though much more restrained/polite than DAKOTA, FREDA is pretty much how I would expect a singer/fitness instructor to be: husky-voiced, talkative, and a bit on the tomboyish side, though her long hair, constant smile, cabled sweater, formfitting jeans and high-heeled tan boots weren’t tomboyish in the slightest… nor was the thong I caught a glimpse of when she got out of the car!

 

I also discovered she smokes weed daily, and she vaped some THC between dinner and the comedy club, in addition to her 3 beers to my 1. Could be a red flag, could signal compatibility; not sure yet.

 

In any case, she gave good eye contact, played with her hair during dinner, touched my arm a lot during the show and on the drive over, was ok when I put my arm around her after the show, leaned toward me when talking, and generally gave me every standard nonverbal green light.

 

After the club I dropped her off at her place and when we hugged I gave her a kiss on the lips which she didn’t protest. After I left, she texted “I had a great time! Let me know when you get home safely!” I did so, replying with a joke, and she responded to the joke this morning.

 

I replied today by asking if she wanted to meet up again and she agreed, which I expected; things went really well overall on our date.

 

But after a bit of back and forth, she finally said that she can’t meet at night until Jan 4 (her sister is coming to visit next week, she works 2 night/week, probably has 1-2 singing gigs and Xmas eve / NYE plans, etc.) but might be able to meet during the day. “We’ll find the time!” is what she said halfway through the convo, but her last message was a discouraging “let’s be in touch!” without any concrete plans being made.

 

So I left things by saying “Cool I’ll let you decide the day, so just holler when you’ve got one in mind!” and that ended the conversation.

 

Overall, though I have some reservations about her drinking/weed habits (I get the feeling she still likes to “party” more than most people her age) and would prefer if she was a bit more (for lack of better terms) sophisticated/educated like KATE or LATRICE, I liked FREDA. She’s pretty, has a job, a car, is in great shape, shares my veganism & political views, and is overall a fun person that I can see enjoying a lot of the same things I do.

 

But it’s in her court now!

[abitbroken]

Does anyone have the image in their head of Dakota getting married, and ND running in like Dustin Hoffman in the Graduate and pounding on the window?

 

Maybe not - but that's the image I got I think maybe you sort of are thinking about Dakota because now she doesn't seem to be an option anymore. If she was not attached, the thought wouldn't have crossed your mind.

 

The secret is that its not about finding someone who is the perfect match, but someone who is complimentary and loves us for our imperfections all the same. Sometimes people that have a few opposite qualities find a lot of strength in bringing a little something different into it. I know that's the case with us.

 

Overall, though I have some reservations about her drinking/weed habits

 

Interesting how the tables have turned - some posters had expressed concern about you finding some ultra healthy vegan because you wouldn't give up weed, and now you are uncomfortable with someone's weed habits. Interesting, that is all.

[WithLove]

How do you feel about her smoking between dinner and the club (in your company, essentially)?

[NorthDallas40]

Does anyone have the image in their head of Dakota getting married, and ND running in like Dustin Hoffman in the Graduate and pounding on the window?

 

Oh yeah that sort of thing has run through my mind as well! But to be honest, after hanging out with her this past Monday I don’t see that happening. The idea of DAKOTA that I have in my mind (when she’s not around) is a lot more appealing in terms of a LTR than the actual, true DAKOTA herself, unfortunately. As someone previously said, 80% of her is great, the remaining 20% would drive me bonkers.

 

Interesting how the tables have turned - some posters had expressed concern about you finding some ultra healthy vegan because you wouldn't give up weed, and now you are uncomfortable with someone's weed habits. Interesting, that is all.

 

Totally understandable. I actually have no problem with women smoking weed. I have many female friends who do, and many of them are as responsible and motivated as anyone. But as far as my personal dating experience goes, weed use among my dates has usually signaled the presence of the usual negative traits of being lazy, irresponsible or being “off” in some other ways. That said, many of my non-smoking dates have been absolute weirdos, too. So at the moment, the jury’s out where FREDA is concerned; I’m merely recording my feelings in real time here.

 

How do you feel about her smoking between dinner and the club (in your company, essentially)?

 

That was fine. I admitted in the car that I smoked daily, so she got it out partially to offer some to me. If I hadn’t brought it up, I doubt she would have brought it out. Besides, knowing that weed is an aphrodisiac, I wasn’t going to complain!

[sophie274]

I wonder if she is normally this busy or if it's just due to the time of year. Pretty normal for people to be booked up around the holidays, but it will be hard to get anything going if she's so rarely free to meet.

[NorthDallas40]

I wonder if she is normally this busy or if it's just due to the time of year. Pretty normal for people to be booked up around the holidays, but it will be hard to get anything going if she's so rarely free to meet.

 

I agree, but holidays get a pass IMO.

 

And in her defense, FREDA is the manager of the fitness studio where she's employed, and told me last night that her daily schedule tends to be hectic and she's not great about setting boundaries with work and the 37 people she manages.

 

Given all that, I'm ok with giving her time to think about going out with me again, but I don't want to be wasting my time in the process. That's why I put the ball firmly in her court so she can name a day she wants to see me. No date, then no date!

[missmarple]

I think Freda might be a good candidate...I'm sure you'll meet again.

[NorthDallas40]

I think Freda might be a good candidate...I'm sure you'll meet again.

 

That's what I thought after our date: that a second date was almost guaranteed.

 

But now that it's been almost 24 hours since my last text with no reply from FREDA, my gut is now telling me "okay we should be looking into getting some more eggs and more baskets"!

[IAmFCA]

Freda hasn't texted bc you assigned her homework and she hasn't sorted the answer. Why not just pick a date two weeks out, claim it, and be done until a text to confirm a few days prior?

[NorthDallas40]

Freda hasn't texted bc you assigned her homework and she hasn't sorted the answer.

 

Which is why I'm venting here instead of pestering her.

 

That said, my gut tells me that if she had a high interest level in seeing me again, she would have already named a day, and it would be much sooner than Jan 4.

 

I don't care how busy you are, it's not that hard to find one day during a 2-week period to see someone you like, and let them know within 24 (now approaching 36) hours.

 

Of course if you're on the fence or uninterested, telling someone you're busy for 2 weeks is a pretty typical way to let them down easy, however ineffective it may be. People do it all the time when they don't have the courage to say a direct "Thanks but not interested."

 

Why not just pick a date two weeks out, claim it, and be done until a text to confirm a few days prior?

 

When we texted yesterday, she said she was busy over the holidays and that her first free night was Jan 4, but meeting before then could be an option, and she was sure we could find some time. I even suggested hiking, seeing a movie, and/or trying out a list of vegan restaurants that our local weekly just published.

 

Since she seemed enthusiastic and we were texting back and forth with only a few minutes between messages during that convo, I assumed I'd get an answer within a few hours or later that night.

 

Instead I lobbed the ball clearly in her court, she responded by dropping out of communication, and for all I know, she's moved onto another game altogether.

[IAmFCA]

When i have many commitments to juggle, it isn't only showing up. It lso is preparation. Errands. Planning. Slotting social engagements into that mix is something I avoid.

 

It feels like i have the time, but I don't. We all need to go home, read the mail, do laundry. I think she can't be certain when she will be comfortable, and so is afraid to commit to a date worthy event. Its a good time to say, Ive got 30 mins for a tea before X, can you meet up?

[annie24]

Well..... for a point of reference from a 36 year old professional woman, if I met a guy and i really liked him, based on my holiday plans, the only times I would have free to meet him before Jan 4th would be the Monday the 26th or Tuesday the 27th at night - I'm booked until the 4th of January myself.

 

Edited to add: I could easily see her being more busy than me and not having those two blocks of time available in her schedule, especially if she is in a more client-based business than I am.

[NorthDallas40]

I'm not discounting the possibility that she truly *is* as busy as she says. I'm just not ruling out the possibility that she might bail anyway. I've had too many promising first dates that fizzled before a 2nd one could be scheduled to be rabidly optimistic. Just being level-headed here.

 

In either case, since I've made my intentions and schedule clear, I'm leaving it to her to name the date and using ENA as my therapy in the interim so she won't think I'm clingy.

 

I imagine it's also a lot more fun for ya'll if I post daily reports/thoughts instead of waiting til Jan 5 to check in

[missmarple]

I'm with ND on this. He told her he wants to meet again and she's the one who said she's going to be busy until Jan 4. It's up to her to let him know when she's free...and she will if she wants to see him again. I would if I were interested and hadn't just used 'busy' as an excuse.

[IAmFCA]

While I don"t disagree i also think we stumble over moments like this, counting turns when maybe a little help would be nice.

 

One of my favorite relationships hapoened because he asked me for coffee at 6 am. Weekly, but on n ad hoc basis. It was the perfect low key antidote to my schedule and my anxiety about my schedule.

 

Point being, F is human. She said when she is free. She said, we willl find time. She said she wants to see him again. She will wait until January, when she can responsibly requeat his time for a date worthy outing.

 

On a last minute basis, he could be in her neighborhood or some such convenience, and use that for a quick meet, a way to keep the thread going. She isnt going to suggest it, because it isn't date worthy.

 

Not that ND has to do anything at all. But he could, and it would be a nice thing to do.

[Batya33]

I'm with ND on this. He told her he wants to meet again and she's the one who said she's going to be busy until Jan 4. It's up to her to let him know when she's free...and she will if she wants to see him again. I would if I were interested and hadn't just used 'busy' as an excuse.

 

Yes -it depends on your boundaries, also. If he calls her again and asks to meet -if she has any reasonable intelligence and has any real interest in him (and we assume she has plenty of the former, the latter is still a bit in limbo) then she will know that he might be the overly clingy/needy type since they left things as they did. Happening that early, that runs the real risk that he will have to initiate everything and she'll have a lovely ego boost as to how into her he is that he's asking how high to jump. I'd set the first impression -which is the real ND- exactly as he has - ball is in her court.

[NorthDallas40]

Still no word from FREDA but I just texted her "Hey Freda hope you and the critters survived last night's downpour without too much trauma, and I wish you strength for your visit to the folks this weekend! Happy Xmas Eve! (Santa emoji)"

 

She immediately replied "Thanks!!! Happy xmas to you too!!! (3 smile emojis)"

 

The generic copy-and-paste nature of her response isn't exactly encouraging; pretty sure date #2 ain't happening now.

[IAmFCA]

ND, take it on face value! I thought her response was warm and friendly.

[NorthDallas40]

ND, take it on face value! I thought her response was warm and friendly.

 

All I can can say is that my gut hasn't been wrong since I started this journal.

 

If she was interested, she most likely would have mustered up something, ANYTHING, more substantial than what you would find on a greeting card from a coworker you barely know, as well as SOME kind of reference to meeting up again, however vague.

 

You may be right of course, but if this were a wager I wouldn't advise anyone to bet against my take on this.

[IAmFCA]

I bet first on instincts. But i want a win / place / show so that i also can bet that you've developed a protective instinct as well.

 

When I'm busy and multitasking, i would text exactly the same to my crush. My non crush would not get the emojis. That is a code too nuanced to be reliable.

 

I have had men say they don't know i am interested and it makes me wonder - in situations like this, what do men expect? If I don't like you, I wouldn't respond at all.

[NorthDallas40]

When I'm busy and multitasking, i would text exactly the same to my crush. My non crush would not get the emojis.

 

FWIW, DAKOTA is physically incapable of sending a text to anyone without 2-3 emojis, typically with at least one of them being a heart, no matter who they are. So I don't read much into that.

 

in situations like this, what do men expect?

 

This:

 

"Aw thanks! Merry Xmas to you too! Still not sure of my schedule but looking forward to seeing you - will let you know soon!"

 

If I don't like you, I wouldn't respond at all.

 

Many, if not most, disinterested women continue to reply to guys who message them if only to be polite, to avoid bruising their egos, and/or for the attention.

 

Unfortunately, a text ≠ interest.

[notalady]

I have to agree, if someone I'm not interested in (whether it's being friends with or date) send a seasons greetings type message, I feel like it would be polite to reply the same. I feel like it's rude to ignore someone who is just being nice.

[IAmFCA]

As usual, on these matters my signals are all haywire. My friends have long called me a guy, which is unfair and sexist and who knows what. Color me #clueless. I would not have written the other message though i would sense that i was missing something. Sigh.

 

Edited to add: at least my one example of myself points to why it is always dangerous to assume intent.

 

I think she wants to go out on Jan 5th, and that others (friends, family, colleagues) who precede your presence on her calendar get precedence over the holiday. And i think that is logical.

[Batya33]

ND, take it on face value! I thought her response was warm and friendly.

 

Me too!! She may have been in the middle of something and wanted to make sure to respond. Maybe she'll write more later.

[missmarple]

Still no word from FREDA but I just texted her "Hey Freda hope you and the critters survived last night's downpour without too much trauma, and I wish you strength for your visit to the folks this weekend! Happy Xmas Eve! (Santa emoji)"

 

She immediately replied "Thanks!!! Happy xmas to you too!!! (3 smile emojis)"

 

The generic copy-and-paste nature of her response isn't exactly encouraging; pretty sure date #2 ain't happening now.

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say the second date won't happen but her response reminded me of a response I sent recently to some woman I don't like but don't want to be rude to, either.

She's a colleague and I've known her for 15 years but we've never been friends outside work. She found out about my cancer and sent me a long, very warm and friendly message with get better soon wishes etc. I wanted to reply in a polite way but, at the same time, I didn't want to leave the door open to more communication. So, I replied Thank you! I wish all the best to you, too..with a smiley emote. Apparently, it worked as she never messaged me again..lol.