It can happen if you really get your act together

[NCforME]

Thanks, I'd never though about it this way before... Out of 10 I reckon I'd give myself a 7/9/5

I need to get my emotional nature together, I became too needy in the end. Never again!

 

Yeah, I think a lot of us on here are working on that emotional intelligence.

[Nick Lansing]

Right. My biggest complaint in my marriage is that my wife made little effort to share my interests after the first couple of years. I didn't need her to be as into my interests as I was, but I wanted her to at least care about and try to understand them. It was easy for me to share her interests (TV, work, decorating, travel), but my interests (music, history, reading, art, even sports) she saw as being beyond her. To her it wasn't worth the effort, and I came to resent that. I started to treat her with condescension (which I regret). She had pretty much the same education as I did, but not at all the same level of intellectual curiosity, and it was a problem. It was a vicious cycle, because as I lost respect for her I treated her worse, and she sought out affirmation and validation outside the marriage, i.e. from another man.

[Silverbirch]

"And she wished I would remember to tie my shoes haha." (posted by NcforMe)

 

That gave me a good chuckle. Thanks.

 

Yes, I guess I have to concede there is some truth in compatibility requiring some equality in intelligence. Maybe I'm partly annoyed because with my ex and other people who I have known, it's as though they try to cultivate a type of identity around their academic achievements which is fake, boring and shallow to me. He was actually very hung up by the fact that his in-laws and his ex-wife had attended a different university. In the city I live in, the oldest university has had a fairly elitist reputation and many people who have attended it don't consider other universities in this city as "real universities which offer real degrees". I could rant about it, but there is an excellent book which outlines it which is actually a "true" account of 3 young female law students who brought sexual harassment claims agains the vice-chancellor. (BTW, my ex had never heard of it let alone read it although it had attracted a great deal of infamy, social comment, and I believe literary awards). The book was called "The First Stone", by Helen Garner, and when I was in my first year of uni in the 90's, I was publicly osracised by a lecturer and other students for saying that I had read it and thought it was a very good book. They considered that I was disloyal to "the cause" (the women's movement) for having read it. I told them, that each time in my life I had been told I must not read any specific book, I was compelled to do so. I told them what the book was really about, and that lecturer ended up reading it herself and agreed that it was a good book. Hence, one instance of my love/hate for universities.

 

I told my own son when he went to university that I knew he would also have a love/hate with university, but not to get too stressed by them and to remember at the end of the day "that university is not the real world". Sorry for the rant - the subject gets me going.

 

Anyway, as I was saying about my ex, he was appalled by the snobs from Melbourne University, but he did the same thing - seeing himself as "better than" people who attended universities which he considered beneath Monash where he attended. Basically, any university other than Melbourne. It's pathetic.

 

Something I believe to often be the case of perceived inequality in intelligence and academic achievement is that in relationships where especially the man has a higher level of academic achievement, there is often a genuine power imbalance - but only if the woman puts the man on a pedestal on account of his higher academice achievement. I used to "jokingly" say that there was only room for one intellectual in the household and with all of my ex's intelligence, I'm sure he took that as flattery. LOL Well, the woman who he told me was his academic equal told him he was "patronising and condescending". I used to see so many people in his family defer to him on account of his education, but I have good reason to suspect his younger brother had a greater capacity for a higher level of achievement but ended up in a dead-end job because of choices he made in his teens.

 

Personally though, I value lots of different types of intelligence. I'm really wondering if there is at least for me a person I could possibly live happily ever after with, but I'm sure there are MANY I could share a lot of happiness with for as long as it is meant to last and thereafter friends for a long time as I am with my ex-husband who I have been divorced from for almost 20 years. I recently read something an old lady wrote where she said "Life is like a large rich tapestry where people weave in and out of your life."

[NCforME]

Haha...wow nick, you and me have similar situations. I wasn't married but I definitely started to resent her for not wanting to share interests and that's key. I mean when I look at my parents at first glance people could see them as opposites. In fact back to the education thing for a second my Dad had a masters and my mom didn't have BA until she was forty five. But, the image I have of my parents that defines their relationship is them sitting on our deck in the summer and our kitchen table in front of the fire in the winter talking politics, philosophy, religion and any other random topic. I guess I'm partial because that's the way I grew up but that's how I see a relationship is supposed to be. Two people even after 30 years of marriage are still having the same debates and discuss the same things. You can't grow together if you don't pick similar interests.

[mhowe]

I don't necessarily think "matching" degrees are the be all/end all in a relationship. I have a Masters, while my bf has an associates. Yet his life experience by far outweighs mine. He is a very hands on, tactile type --- I am analytical. I probably read 3-4 books/week, not big on TV ---- he watchs TV quite a bit, reads maybe 2-4 books/year. On paper, it looks like we could not be less compatible.

 

And yet ---- we can talk about anything for hours. It comes more from shared values and outlook on like. Different interests, and being interested in the things that your SO values gives much more richness to your life.

[NCforME]

Oh, silverbirch don't get me started on the prestigious university thing either. The truth is they are easier schools because they get coddled there. My dad went to Harvard. I chose a lowly top 10 state school for engineering. My Dad went to Harvard and he thinks often they are coddled as well. I have friend who went to Yale and said in his finance classes you had to work to get a C because the teacher gave everyone at least a B.

 

My dad ran a chain of medical facilities, he would prefer hiring someone who was able to achieve from a lower starting point. It's intelligence and perseverance that makes someone. But thats off topic we're talking relationships here I guess.

 

But to that point I guess I would say your ex didn't have to high a EQ.

[NCforME]

I don't necessarily think "matching" degrees are the be all/end all in a relationship. I have a Masters, while my bf has an associates. Yet his life experience by far outweighs mine. He is a very hands on, tactile type --- I am analytical. I probably read 3-4 books/week, not big on TV ---- he watchs TV quite a bit, reads maybe 2-4 books/year. On paper, it looks like we could not be less compatible.

 

And yet ---- we can talk about anything for hours. It comes more from shared values and outlook on like. Different interests, and being interested in the things that your SO values gives much more richness to your life.

 

Yeah definitely, I mean life experience can really be a whole other education. Its rare but sometimes the most interesting people don't have degree's but they did a lot cool things in their life. Richard Branson only has a high school diploma but of course this is more rare. Ability to share interest is just about the biggest thing. I was speaking generally in the beginning that people who have very different backgrounds won't have as much to share. When looking to a SO we need to look at the ability to grow with that person. Can they be at the same level 30 years from now? Or do will our interests diverge quickly. Which most of this has more to do with curiosity I suppose. People with equal curiosity.

[Nick Lansing]

My brother-in-law is a doctor who went to Harvard, Yale and Columbia,and he's insufferable. And he manages to mention how smart he is or where he went to school in every conversation. Zero emotional intelligence. No wonder my sister was able to land such a "catch," who had never been married at 40-something.

 

My sis is very smart and clever too but I notice she is taking a lot of extended vacations without him these days.

[thelastsong]

I'm a big fan of Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences (spatial/visual, verbal/linguistic, logical-mathematical, interpersonal, intrapersonal, musical, kinesthetic/bodily). There are many kinds of intelligence, and a person can be good in some areas and poor in others. I get lost all the time for example, even going places I've already been, but I don't think it makes me entirely unintelligent. I'm just lacking in spatial reasoning.

 

Having a higher degree doesn't always equate intelligence anyways. Many of the people with the highest IQ's actually struggle with college or drop out. I think it's more important to have similar interests and priorities in life. For example, if you ask me anything about hockey or economics, I will sound pretty unintelligent because I don't really understand or want to understand, but I can do pretty well in discussions of music or social theory.

 

There should also be some kind of power balance. If one person in a relationship believes they are superior in intelligence in every area over their partner, there will be serious issues. I think each partner needs to respect the other's expertise and knowledge.

[NCforME]

Thanks theLastSong, you put a name to the theory. I'll have to read up on it.

 

Power balance has a lot to do with it. Nobody wants to be able to think less of the person they are with. I think of my recent relationship failure like this. We liked all the same things, I mean it was uncanny. The problem was this though, we weighted our priorities too differently. For instance, we both thought studying for school and keeping a clean house were priorities. I just rated school well above cleaning, she saw them as about equal. She couldn't study until she cleaned first. I would wait until I wasn't busy to clean which sometimes was a week or more because I couldn't bring myself to waste my time with it until I had priority #1 out of the way. I'm trying to change that (to bring this a little bit back on topic to changing for the better). I've been making sure I increase some of those priorities that can kill a relationship. I realize nobody wants to be with a slob.

 

I just started this line of thinking because it seems like my ex is with guy who she probably has no future with. He's easy to be with right now. But in 10 years will he want to sit at a cafe and talk about ideas while people watching. Something me and my ex did in the city. I think she just likes him now because he goes out a lot a parties something neither one of us got to do that last two years. I think he'll become boring to her in the long run.

[Silverbirch]

Yes, I'm possibly at least a bit like you or maybe both of you actually. I seem to create a mess from busyness. Every man I have been with complains about how messy is car is. This is largely because I'm on the go a lot of the time. All of the men I have been with have immaculate cars. There is a man who I've known for some time who I see more of these days and it isn't lost on me that we have "matching cars". I think we are similar in that we are both on the go and do have some shared interests.

 

In another respect though, I am like your partner in that when things get to a point of untidiness, I start feeling out of sorts and agitiated - largely because I can't find things like matching socks and at the moment, I can't find my cell phone charger so I'm going to have to duck out this morning and buy another.

 

This has been an interesting discussion. I would say that people connect with each other in a whole range of different ways, some I can't quite articulate right now. On the other hand, sometimes we need people to be different to us in ways where we balance each other out. That might be like you and your partner Ncforme - being with her helped you be tidier and maybe you helped her be less hung up over orderliness - you each help each other be more balanced. Perhaps that is why some opposites attract.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Nick and thanks for your comments. The same male friend I referred to above said that after a few years, his wife said to him "You didn't have all of these interests when we were first married." He had developed several passions, and likely he had more of an adventurous and curious nature, especially, he learnt to fly aircraft. He said he believed from her comment then that she had stayed the same whereas he considered himself to have grown, and so they BECAME incompatible.

[jeepman41]

To place it all in a nutshell, it doesn't matter how many degrees you have you have or your intelligence level, none of that factors into being relationship smart. Intelligence might be sexy but it is not a prerequisite for a happy and stable relationship.

[NCforME]

To place it all in a nutshell, it doesn't matter how many degrees you have you have or your intelligence level, none of that factors into being relationship smart. Intelligence might be sexy but it is not a prerequisite for a happy and stable relationship.

 

I would disagree with this. There's an acceptable range. I'm probably not going to be happy with someone too far out of it. But, I would put curiosity above all else. That to me is the sexiest thing, even above just plain intelligence because intelligence with out it is a waste.

[MissMazzi]

Love this thread and the insights on here.

 

This may seem like a stupid request, but is there a checklist that I can follow to help myself fulfil my best potential from this BU? I want to learn the best that I can, whilst I'm going through this phase...How do you reach your best potential? First to forgive and love yourself...but is there some detailed list that I can follow? Obviously some would not apply to everybody...For me, it's always best when I have things written down in order to reach my goals, first

 

I was thinking of ordering some books on eastern philosophy...but not sure if I should focus on other issues before that. I want to eliminate all of my inner demons, but I don't know how to approach that.

 

I guess one problem would be my clingyness.

[AC Slater]

Just read and learn. Treat your life from this moment as a learning experience, consolidate as much information as you can. Practice open mindedness and empathy. Learn as much as you can about everything. Use this as an opportunity to develop yourself - seems to be the cliche saying around here but honestly what you do with this time is so SO important, and you will only realize this when you look back on it in the coming months/years. Develop hobbies and projects and really exert yourself.

[Milsch]

I chose this thread to post in because it has taught me a lot (and I'm hoping some of you regulars, eg. TT, might have time to reply!)

 

I expect everyone says this, but my situation genuinely feels different - and maybe therefore needs a different approach.

 

Basically, at the age of 25, the girl I have just lost is the first person I have truly loved, yet I made every effort not to love her, not to show her I love her and I was generally a real ****.

 

Here's the breakdown:

 

I had been dating a girl called Emily (the person I love and want back) for a year. Initially, it was a rebound situation for me - I'd just come out of a three-year relationship, during which a girl called Sarah I had been living together.

 

In the early stages with Emily, I still had doubts about the break up with Sarah. Emily didn't take that well, but she stuck by me. Sarah and I became good friends (and share a friendship circle) but nothing ever happened after we broke up. I know Emily wasn't that happy about the situation.

 

After about four months of the relationship, Emily asked me where we were going - whether there was a chance for anything serious. I told her, basically, no. I think I did that because I was still trying to protect Sarah (and also because I knew Emily would stay with me anyway).

 

About a month ago I (stupidly) went skinny dipping with a group of friends that included Sarah. Emily was really pissed off about it, even though I explained that it didn't actually mean anything and that it was just a swim (which, btw, is true... but I can see how she sees it). I then told her I understood her point of view, was sorry and that it wouldn't happen again.

 

My ex - the one I went skinny dipping with - also happens to be leaving the country soon.

 

But since that incident, Emily says she started withdrawing emotionally from the relationship (although I have now realised maybe she started withdrawing way back when I told her we wouldn't have anything serious). A couple of weeks ago she sort of broke up with me, but we kept seeing each other and I thought things would get back on track. I told her (for the first time) I love her (which I do) and that I wanted to start over. She told me that when we're together she has a great time, but when we're not she starts to doubt her feelings.

 

She has been away for a few days, came back and told me that it was now over. She didn't want to 'run the relationship into the ground' by sticking together despite her heart not being in it anymore.

 

Two days ago I wrote and delivered a letter to her, apologising for my total lack of respect for her. I told her I wasn't begging her to come back and understood why she had rejected me, but that I really want to start over with her. She was also unwell at the time, so I took her some Lemsip and soup. Five minutes after I left, she sent me a text saying "Thanks for the soup, the Lemsip and the lovely letter. I felt instantly cheered."

 

Pretty devastating reply. No contact since then, but I've literally had to sit on my hands not to pick up my phone.

 

The reason I feel my situation is different to most is that she never knew I loved her, and now she must think I'm saying it just to keep her around. I have conflicting voices in my mind: on the one hand I should leave her alone, work on myself and wait for her to miss me, etc. On the other hand, if I don't prove my love to her, she will probably just forget about me and think that I am a jerk who is not worth the work.

 

I want to follow all the 'zen' advice in this thread, that I should work on myself, etc... but this girl means everything to me and I can't not contact her.

 

I genuinely have learned so much about myself this past week. I know it's only a week, but I have seen the error of my ways.

 

Please help me, what can I do?

[Sim54]

The important thing here is not how you feel, but how she feels. You say you love her, and that she is the most important person in your life, but your actions over the last year say the opposite. You haven't behaved like she is very important to you, so that's how she feels. The bottom line is her feelings have changed, and you can't do anything about that. You have 2 choices here: One is to chase her, and try to bring her around by demonstrating your love for her. The other is to accept that it is over, heal, and move on, and see what happens with her down the line.

 

Sorry, but I think this one is over. I had a similar situation, and in the end she was too hurt to come back. I wasn't there for her when she needed me, and her feelings changed. That's the way it goes when you don't commit yourself to the relationship, feelings slowly die, and they won't come back.

[Milsch]

Thank you for the reply.

 

The thing is, in many ways I have been loving to her. I have cared for her when she was unwell, I have comforted her when she was sad, etc. Some of my actions were stupid (eg. the skinny dipping, the not integrating her, etc) but a lot were loving. We also have (had?!) a real connection - we got on so well, amazing sex, etc. She still knows all that and has said it, she just said it doesn't 'feel right'.

 

I am planning to show her I love her. Do you think my past loving actions will count in my favour? Does is in any way chance your perception that it is probably over?

[Sim54]

Your situation is very similar to mine, all the same things, I was loving, there for her, etc, but in the end, i wasn't totally committed.

If she says it doesn't feel right, then it doesn't feel right. Not much you can do about that.

My ex told me that our relationship was tainted. She told me she still loved me but didn't want to come back. She is now living with another guy, and we have hardly spoken in nearly a year. That's the way it goes.

Relationships are subtle, and feelings don't survive being neglected.

You best thing you can do is accept what she says and go with that. Trying to prove yourself to her is only about how you feel, and not about how she feels.

[Milsch]

Do you know the Blase Harris book? He says that by loving 100% you can re-trigger the bond.

 

Did you try to prove your love to her out of interest?

 

I can't give up on this. We are so good together.

[DerekJason]

Hi new guy here,

i came accross this thread in the "search", alot of great insight here.

[Sim54]

Do you know the Blase Harris book? He says that by loving 100% you can re-trigger the bond.

 

Did you try to prove your love to her out of interest?

 

I can't give up on this. We are so good together.

 

I realised that it was more important to take care of myself than to try to 'prove' something to her. In the end, our relationship was dysfunctional and I needed to get away from her, and her from me. So, that may be different to you. BUT, proving yourself to her will ONLY work if she is receptive. If she isn't, then it will slowly erode your self esteem and her respect for you. Right now, your ex sounds like she doesn't want you to love her. And that is the key. If she doesn't want you to love her then there is nothing you can do.

[Tired Tiger]

I expect everyone says this, but my situation genuinely feels different - and maybe therefore needs a different approach.

 

You're correct - everyone says this.

 

And yes, situations and circumstances vary between every individual story, but one thing remains constant - that the person on the receiving end of rejection will use that perceived uniqueness as a justification for acting on pure emotion... and make the same mistakes that people have been making for millennia. They were different, too.

 

With that thought in mind, let's skip ahead here...

 

 

I have conflicting voices in my mind: on the one hand I should leave her alone, work on myself and wait for her to miss me, etc. On the other hand, if I don't prove my love to her, she will probably just forget about me and think that I am a jerk who is not worth the work.

 

Let's be very clear about one thing - you cannot "prove your love to her" by actively projecting anything in her direction. Not now. She won't buy it. In fact, thinking that you can rescue or salvage this now will only delay your true healing and change, and will cause more damage in the long run. You have to let her go.

 

I want to follow all the 'zen' advice in this thread, that I should work on myself, etc... but this girl means everything to me and I can't not contact her.

 

Of course you can. Or can't. I get confused with double negatives.

 

I genuinely have learned so much about myself this past week. I know it's only a week, but I have seen the error of my ways.

 

Awareness is a great thing. It's also just the first baby step in journey that will take a very long time (a week is but a fraction of a fraction). Keep looking forward and practice diverting your focus from her to yourself. So long as you consider her an essential element to your happiness, you aren't where you need to be.

[90_hour_sleep]

well...i'll certainly hop on board with sim and tiger on this one.

 

thinking sim and i share some real similarities...as do the women that we cleverly (albeit in a subtle fasion) neglected over the years.

 

milsch...i'm sure it's a bit difficult to really hear the things people are telling you right now. so much of it is counter-intuitive. but it comes from a place of wisdom.

 

bottom line...you're going to do whatever you feel is best. it's your experience. and at the end of the day...that's what matters. no one can take that from you. sometimes it's best to be your own guide through turmoil. let it teach you. as difficult as it is.