It can happen if you really get your act together

[Sim54]

Well, as far as I can see, it doesn't matter at all what she thinks about this, or whether she'll be understanding. It's your life, and you're free to do as you please. I doesn't sound like she's been accommodating of you.

 

I can see you dillema though. It is catch 22 of sorts, except that the reality of seeing her out will be less than the anticipation, and by facing this, and dealing with it in an adult fashion, it should move you along a bit, and help you heal some more. I say go for it. if you find you really can't handle it, then stop for a while longer, but don't hold off out of fear of what MIGHT happen, or if it will set you back. You'll know soon enough if it's damaging or not.

[tacs1895]

So I'm now back doing some of my music stuff, seeing the ex weeklyish. Beforehand we met to have a chat about things, and I think it was useful. She's moved on a lot, and seems to be doing well. I do genuinely feel happy for her, while at the same time finding it hard because I'm not in such a good place myself. I've explained that I'm not as far moved on as she is yet, and I think it was important that she should know that, she is a caring person, even if occasionally thoughtless, and it is therefore useful for both of us to know where each other is at. I know that some people on this site would advise not saying something like that because you should try to appear happy in front of your ex, but for me it was important to be honest and open about things. She knows that I don't hate her, but also that I find it hard to see her and am still processing things and therefore am not able to be "just friends" at the moment.

 

I'll stop waffling about my specific situation now and mention a couple of more general things that I think I have learned which are relevant to this thread. Particularly concerning feelings of anger and resentment, and how to process them constructively. What I have realised is that very often the feelings of anger I have towards my ex can really be traced back to something in myself. It may be that she does/did some small thing which is hurtful or inconsiderate, but the reason that thing might get to me so much is more to do with something deeper that I feel about myself.

 

For example... One time when we were still together I got very upset when she arranged a get together with all our friends without checking with me if I was actually free. Ok, it was slightly thoughtless of her, but I realised that the reason it bugged me so much was because of my own deeper insecurities about making friendships and what other people think of me, and generally often not believing in myself or being confident. Another example is the way that I've felt anger at times since the breakup that she's been doing so many musical activities and social things that I've been missing out on. But what's really behind that anger is the feeling that I hadn't made enough of those musical and social things while I was still in them - I had been living my life a little bit through her, because of my lack of confidence - and so the reason I have negative feelings is not because she's doing those things more or better than me, but actually because I find it hard to do those things on my own (without the support of a partner).

 

The general point is that I think that negative feelings often come from within yourself. They may be triggered or sparked by an external event or person, but the real strength of those feelings can be traced back to something personal or internal. Of course there are examples where your anger would justifiably be caused by something external, if someone just does something really bad to you. But in a lot of cases, it can be worth examining why it really is that something makes you feel resentment.

 

To put this fully into the context of this thread, I think this is very useful for "letting go with love". In struggling with the negative feelings that I have towards someone who I still love, it is very useful to remember that these negative feelings come from me. It means I can let go of feeling negative towards her, and allow her to be happy in what she's doing, while at the same time understanding things about myself which I can face and address. It's easier said than done - easier to understand intellectually than to truly feel. But there have been moments where this has been genuinely what I felt, and I believe that this part of the path of being able to let go with love and move on healthily.

(And reconcile? Who knows. There's no knowing. It's not about that. Much as I miss her and would like to think it's possible. It's not about that. It's about how to move on healthily and compassionately.)

[90_hour_sleep]

hey tacs,

 

i just wanted to let you know that i find this post to be awesome. you've taken some theoretical knowledge here, and actually put it into practice for yourself. so, it's no longer just an idea...it's wisdom that's been realized as some true knowing within you. that's a hard thing to accomplish. it's often easy to latch onto a theory...but i don't think it really solidifies itself until you've had the corresponding experience to go along with it. you know? the two components really add substance to each other. the theory enhances the experience...and the experience enhances the theory. if that makes sense.

 

anyway. hope you continue to find the motivation to continue this exploration of yourself. curiosity...it goes a long way.

 

cheers.

 

 

[flnazrael]

Amazing thread.

 

I like the discussion on the dangers of using negativity and devaluation as a method of moving on.

 

 

Though I was technically the one that ended our relationship, I did so because I knew she was already slipping away, and dealing with a lot of issues and pain from her past. At first all I felt was a sense that I wasn't "good enough", and I could have somehow saved her.

 

The first epiphany I had, which had a very healing effect, was that there is nothing I can do to "save" anyone. I could have been absolutely perfect (I was not of course) and it wouldn't have mattered. Sometimes, you are giving love to someone who just isn't ready to receive it.

 

But as much as this realization helped, it was not enough. It brought feelings of negativity toward my ex, and made me view my time with her as a waste of emotional energy. Yet through reading this thread (and similar ones) over the last couple of days, I have come to an even deeper understanding: The question I should be asking myself is not, "Why was she unhealthy?", but rather, "Why is there a pattern of me falling deeply for unhealthy women? Why do I avoid being with women that are not codependent? Why did I focus on 'saving' her to the detriment of my own happiness and self-respect?"

 

The answer to that question is slowly forming, and explains years of patterns and behavior in my life. If I can address this, it is going to help me for the rest of my life.

 

 

Yet what if I had stopped simply at devaluing her? My ego may have been satisfied, but I would go on repeating a dangerous pattern because I didn't look deep enough into myself.

[Sim54]

Very wise and insightful of you. These are great realisations you are having. And yes, it will change your life. There is work to be done in uncovering all the layers of your own issues, but it can be done, and it's a great journey.

 

Peace.

[sfindependent]

couldnt have said it better myself.

 

i think growing up is truly growing outwards from a deeper level of consciousness and becomes practice and world view. it is that that makes us realize that life is much more simpler when we realize we are just a speck in time. we cannot control the bigger, grander, scheme of things and the best thing to do is let go of our own fears.

[NCforME]

Al Turtle said something on Marriage Advocates that I thought was a perfect way to describe how you should go about thinking about love

 

"My thought is that expectations get you nothing but trouble. Now, goals.... they can get you all sorts of places."

--Al Turtle

 

This reminds me its about finding that place we all want. Whether it be with our ex's or not. If we behave with the goal of finding "Vintage love", as he calls it, then we will be on the path to finding it. If the the ex turns out to be the best avenue then we follow it. If not then we walk a different road.

[tacs1895]

Bump!

 

Today I thought I'd have a re-read of this excellent thread and give it a bump in the process. Hope you are all doing ok out there.Having a bit of a low period myself.... somebody please write something insightful and inspiring!

[Tired Tiger]

Hey tacs. Wouldn't it be great if going through all of this were a linear process? Ah, but alas no. The lows are inevitable (and often unpredictable). What's important is how we process through those periods in a way that keeps us on the right path. That's the thing about paths - they twist and turn and fork off all over the place, and the lows tend to make us unknowingly stray off course. Keeping a conscious awareness of self and the difference between attachment and love helps get us to a stronger and more positive place, as opposed to the all-too-often traveled path of jaded bitterness (a fork associated with the lows). That is, of course, unless one feels it's in their best interest to wallow in negativity, but those folks probably aren't reading this thread anyway.

[90_hour_sleep]

hmmm

 

well...today i got home from work a bit early. i did some kitchen prep...and then poured myself a glass of rum. and then...well...another glass of rum.

 

so...i've been sitting around...making curry...and drinking rum. i got to the simmer stage (and BOY does it smell AMAZING right now)....and...for whatever reason...instead of turning the element down to 'low'...i over-extended the knob and left it on high. so...here i was...sipping rum...delighting in the aromas of my would-be meal...all the while assuming it was simmering away happily...but in reality...it was forming a nice layer of 'burn' on the bottom of my pot...bubbling away and perhaps intensifying the whole concoction (and i've yet to determine the results of this ''error'').

 

i guess...it got me thinking about this idea of assumptive thinking. how EASY it is to make and ERRONEOUS assumption. even when you're completely convinced that you've done nothing wrong...it's only a perception. the same could be true of any encounter with another. why do we convince ourselves so entirely of our 'rightness'? the fact is...i made a mistake. and to be honest...i wasn't even concsious of that mistake. was it the rum? well...maybe it was. but does it really matter? no. it absolutely does not matter. it was an error of sorts. and it happened naturally...easily. so...why do we find it necessary to hide from our errors when in a relationship? what is so positively terrifying about that prospect? why the need to be 'right'. why the need to find 'wrongness' in another...when it's so absurdly obvious that mistakes happen with the utmost ease in our ordinary daily experience? why is it so difficult to admit defeat in the presence of another human? and why does it even FEEL like defeat? it's insanity. it really is. here is THE ONE opportunity to be completely at home with our infallible natures...and yet we resist. why do we resist? herein lies the solution to relationship conflict. i invite you to discover your own answers...

 

that's an important question to me. why do i resist? what do i have to fear? because fear is often the defining factor in a failing relationship. what is the nature of that fear? well...that depends on your own unique relationship.

 

let go of the desire to be right. let go of the desire to adhere to an infallible image of yourself. sometimes...what you believe to be true...is an illusory belief. it's based on an erroneous perception of the way things are. give yourself space. give those around you space. reserve your judgement. refrain from the need to be 'right'. and...if that seems unachievable...start with a question. why do i feel compelled to justify my point of view?

 

interesting...

 

curry has taught me many things...just by being as it is. when i drop the resistance to what is...i'm free to let things unfold naturally.

 

just my thoughts for the evening.

 

cheers to the thread!

[maron]

this thread has actually helped me explore other perspectives beyond what i've seen, for most of the relationships i have.

 

thank you.

[Silverbirch]

I'm almost a little shocked to say that it looks as though my ex is in the friendzone. I'm trying to work on myself and heed the positive things from this thread and other sites. I'm learning not to have any expectations, to do my best to let go and to get on with my life. Even if things did work out, and that almost seems like a miracle right now, I would not be rushing into anything - not with anyone. Thanks for this thread. With a lot of the negativity and narrow-mindedness sometimes at ENA, I even thought about not posting this, but I thought about the other people, like on this thread who can be brave and compassionate - not just with others, but with themselves, and I do want to work towards self-improvement. I'd like to have the opportunity for us to get to know each other again as friends - not to go back to the old relationship, but if a new relationship developed, and it was healthy and good, well, just have to see how things go.

[Sim54]

I wish my ex thought like you. She just ran off with a young guy and shut me out. I know she was hurt, but really, I only seem to meet women who refuse to take any responsibility for their behaviour in their relationships.

 

Well, i'm trying to better myself and wish I could let go of the hope that she will notice the change in me one day.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Sim,

It was my ex who ended the relationship and I didn't see it coming. I can see that there were issues on both sides. I wish I could turn back time. I have regrets and there are things I would change. It may be too late now though unfortunately.

 

Things is Sim, we can't really know what the future holds, and maybe you might at some point get back communicating with your ex. I think it takes substantial time if these things are going to work out. You can't know either how things will work out with your ex's "rebound" if that is what it is.

[Tired Tiger]

cheers to the thread!

 

Indeed!

 

Ah... curry and rum... truly Canadian dao.

[aev]

I just want to say how much I love this thread. It's a little glimmer of positivity in all this toxicity, negativity, and pessimism. Reconciliation isn't about "playing the game" or "getting them back" - if you're looking to go "back," then you haven't gotten your head on straight yet. The old relationship is over. But the new you and the new person your partner has become might be able to build something better than before. This only happens if you have the respect for yourself, your partner, and the commitment to do it right this time.

 

Take time, heal yourself, learn from the past, and head into the future as a healthier, happier you. Either way, you win. So many people are quick to play blame games, minimize, or generalize their experience instead of doing the introspection that real growth is built from. It's nice to see some GOOD advice on these boards =]

 

Props, and bump!

[tacs1895]

My latest musings... thoughts... struggles...

 

Without wanting to get into a whole mindset of "evil dumper" vs. "victim dumpee" (which as has already been discussed here is to oversimplify the roles) there are still some differences to the experience of the one who leaves and the one who was left. For me, it comes down to two main things - rejection and trust.

 

The feelings associated with rejection that I personally have experienced are basically all about confidence and self belief/esteem. I have come to recognise that these are my own feelings, and not really to do with my ex. I've in fact realised that self confidence is basically a pretty deep issue for me personally, both now in the wake of the breakup but actually also beforehand too when we were still together. Basically, always. So the negative feelings that I experience initially towards my ex that are associated with the rejection can really be traced back to myself. Therefore, while this feelings are still tricky to deal with, I now understand that they are my own and can detach from feeling angry towards my ex about them because I realise it's really about me. (I posted a bit about this earlier in this thread.) So I've learned some valuable stuff here, even though it's hard, I'm ok with it (sort of), and I'll try to keep working at it (even if I don't really quite know what that means yet, and there's still a long way to go).

 

The feelings about trust, I'm finding harder to deal with. My breakup was very sudden, her reasons for leaving were left pretty unexplained (as much as I know she tried to her best to explain, she couldn't and still can't really). The conclusion I came to was that she hadn't really been totally honest with herself about how she felt, and by extension wasn't honest or open with me either. I don't blame her for that. Honestly, I understand that she tried her best, even if it wasn't enough (and also that from my side I could have done more to help with the communication too). So I'm not angry at her for that. But, currently it still presents a problem for any future reconciliation, or even just friendship - because even though I don't blame her for having let me down regarding trust, I still now feel that I can't trust her any more, whereas once I did wholeheartedly. I think trust usually has to be earned. Which in this case, would take something coming from her end, which currently isn't happening. I don't know if it's possible for me to regain trust in this person just on my own, I feel like it needs something from her also. I'm not even sure what that might be, perhaps it might be some display of openness from her, even if just an acknowledgement that she hasn't been very open. I don't really know what it would take from her, which I think is the point - that it has to come from her, and therefore I can't say what it is. Without something coming from her, it seems a little bit, well.... unfair. Unfair that this whole thing of letting go with love is all on me, with her taking any responsibility.

 

It occurs to me that perhaps what I'm really missing here is... forgiveness. Which is something that I've realised I don't think I fully understand. I've read lots of opinions on forgiveness which describe it as essentially letting go of the attachment to whatever might have been done wrong, and moving on. But I'm not sure that's how I've understood forgiveness up until now. I think I've always imagined forgiveness to be something that comes after an acknowledgement from the other side of their mistakes, or simply an apology. "I'm sorry I wronged you", "It's ok, I forgive you". (Of course, an apology is another example of something coming from the other person first). In previous breakups where I felt someone had similarly betrayed my trust, I eventually got over it, to a point where I didn't care about it any more, but I'm not sure that ever involved me consciously forgiving them. Up until recently I'd have said it wasn't possible for me to forgive them, because they'd never apologized. I'm starting to see that it's not quite that simple. I can see that this time round it might be necessary for me to forgive her for having broken my trust, without her even admitting or acknowledging that that's what happened. Which is much harder, and I'm not quite sure how to do it. But whatever it is, perhaps this is more the issue right now than trust.

 

Which is not to say that trust isn't an issue at all. I always considered my ex a very honest and open person. And I'm not really saying that she isn't. But just that there is still a sense that I was able to believe something that turned out not to be true. So I guess my own judgement enters the equation. I don't consider my ex untrustworthy, and nor would I assume than any other future partner I might have was untrustworthy. But there remains the fact that I trusted someone, and got hurt. So I will have to learn to trust again. Which will be a personal issue, separate from my ex, in the same way that the issues of confidence are. But then again, like I say, there are ways in which trust must be earned also.

 

So trust remains an issue. But maybe in terms of letting go with love, forgiveness is the more immediate thing to aim for right now. In the way that I've successfully dealt with the issues of confidence and rejection (successful in that I've separated them from my ex, even though they still exist), maybe the next (final?) stage of letting go with love is for me to forgive. I still feel like something coming from her side of things would help, but I can't depend on that happening. So I have to find a way myself.

 

To summarize:

- rejection/confidence - I now recognize that negative feelings in this area come from myself, and I can mostly detach them from my ex, and hopefully improve this by myself and for myself.

- forgiveness - I think it's necessary, but I don't yet know quite what it is or how to do it own my own.

- trust - my negative feelings towards my ex about trust will hopefully dealt with through forgiveness. And then the processes of learning to trust again (me) and my trust being earned (by my ex or whoever else) will take place in the future. (As well as, of course, me earning the other person's trust too.)

 

Thanks for letting me share such a long post. I've written a lot about myself, but hopefully some of these thoughts will resonate with other people, as other people's thoughts have resonated with me. And if not, please just ignore me!

[Tired Tiger]

It's completely understandable that anyone would struggle with the concept of forgiveness. I believe it's most common for people to associate it as an interactive process - which it very well can be (acknowledgement/apology/acceptance). However, at it's core, forgiveness is the resolution and release of resentment. Of course, there's theological and philosophical implications that confuse the basic definition, but as it applies to intimate relationships (particularly post break up), it's a matter of letting go of the perceived "wrongings" without the need for any sort of 'emotional retribution'. I think where many stumble on the forgiveness path is in assuming that it grants the other a free pass on inappropriate behavior. That's actually missing the point entirely.

 

I don't always trust everything from Wikipedia, but this is a decent summary:

 

link removed

[90_hour_sleep]

It's completely understandable that anyone would struggle with the concept of forgiveness. I believe it's most common for people to associate it as an interactive process - which it very well can be (acknowledgement/apology/acceptance). However, at it's core, forgiveness is the resolution and release of resentment. Of course, there's theological and philosophical implications that confuse the basic definition, but as it applies to intimate relationships (particularly post break up), it's a matter of letting go of the perceived "wrongings" without the need for any sort of 'emotional retribution'. I think where many stumble on the forgiveness path is in assuming that it grants the other a free pass on inappropriate behavior. That's actually missing the point entirely.I don't always trust everything from Wikipedia, but this is a decent summary:

 

link removed

 

woohoo!!!!!

 

bumpity bumpity bump. in my humble opinion, this post should be ''sticky''ed...and also subliminally injected into the collective consciousness of humanity.

 

i think the ''brave new world'' could've used your input, tiger.

[tacs1895]

Bump because this thread is so great, I think everyone should read it, even though it won't resonate for everyone, it's been very helpful for me.

 

Also just to direct some attention to my own threads.... I like this thread a lot, but didn't want to post my own specific extended ramblings here, so I started my own.... If anyone who likes this thread and appreciates the attitude of "letting go with love" and so on would like to check out my posts and maybe offer some support or advice, then please do look here:

 

 

[tacs1895]

Actually, I do have some more general wonderings of my own to share here... Basically some thoughts about some paradoxes or conflicts that I find myself considering a lot.

 

For examples, the importance of engaging honestly with one's feelings of pain, and not denying them. Fully experiencing your current feelings, however hard they may be to take. But.... how to do this in a constructive manner, and not just to mope around, indulge in negative thoughts that are unhelpful, and get into a rut which causes an obstacle to improvement?

 

In a similar way, I have been wondering about self confidence a lot recently also.... trying to find a balance between striving for self improvement and to become the person I would like to be... and yet also being accepting of who I am, and trying to find acceptance and love for myself just as I am...

 

These are examples of things where I think the right path is to be found along quite a fine line.... Another example, with regards be reconciliation, might be the difference between wanting to be with someone and needing to be with someone, which has been discussed here quite a bit already. Life is full of these grey areas, I think....

[Sim54]

In a nutshell, indulging in negative thoughts regarding your feelings is the opposite of actually just feeling them.

What I do, if I find I'm ruminating on something or over thinking/obsessing is to find somewhere quiet and just sit down 'with myself'.

Imagine that you are with someone else who needs some attention from you, only that person is you. You sit down, and you check in with your body. Apparently, that action of focusing your attention on your body engages some part of your brain which stops you obsessing. So, just sit, and see where the feeling is. Are you anxious in your chest, or nervous in your stomach, or heartbroken in your solar plexus, etc? Don't judge how you are feeling, just allow your attention to find the pain/sensation, and recognise it. You might say, 'on, my heart feels sore, i'm heartbroken' or something like that. Breath deeply and relax, feel your mind settle as you stop trying to run away from the feeling by 'out thinking' it. Try to find some peace and calm, so that even if you are physically in pain somewhere you don't freak out about it, but just accept it. Do this for a few minutes, and see how you feel afterwards.

 

I have to say, that it's taken me a long time to get to this, and about a year of therapy. If you are in extreme pain, and can't handle it then I thoroughly recommend you find a therapist or professional to help with this work. There is nothing weak about that. It takes practise to be able to do this, and having someone guide you will help massively.

 

Hope this helps. Ideally, if you can calm down in a few minutes from this, then you can get up and get on with your day. Far from being over indulgent, this actually allows your feelings to pass by rather than take over your whole life.

[Silverbirch]

I think it's possible to forgive a person, but not necessarily trust them again or for quite some time down the track - at least in the context of being in an intimate relationship with them. I feel a lot like Tac in that I totally trusted my ex and with the way the breakup took place and the things he did around that time, I am uncertain whether I would even want him as a friend - something he has recently made clear - that he wants to be seeing me "as a friend" and has made excuses to be seeing me in person.

[tacs1895]

Nice suggestions, Sim. I am actually already working with a therapist. Although the advice you give I've actually encountered more directly through meditation and readings on Buddhism. (Maybe you are into meditation too?) There is a great quote I've read from Pema Chodron (Buddhist writer and teacher), which is: "Drop the story. Feel the feelings". Pretty much what you suggest. Letting go of the thoughts which you attach to your feelings, and just feeling the feelings themselves, which are both emotional and physical. And, as you say, finding a way to just accept you experience as it is.

 

Silverbirch, I agree with what you say about perhaps not finding that trust again for quite some time. I have to remember that this is a long process which will take its own course. I believe that it will be possible to find it again, I guess there is however an element of impatience because the immediate situation is so painful and I would like it to be better. But it will take as long as it takes. I do, however, also believe that that process could be helped along by my ex showing some openness and forthcoming. Because trust also has to be earned, I believe. But whether my ex wants to offer any of that openness is beyond my control...

[Silverbirch]

Tac, I think it is important that we don't put all aspects of our lives on hold waiting for our exes to show that they are sufficiently trustworthy enough to be in any type of relationship with. Possibly even more so than trust though was that my ex and possibly yours at the breakup said that they no longer felt the way they had initially in the relationship. Even if there was sufficient trust, we can't force anyone to feel anyway about us. I really wasn't given the opportunity to tell my ex that I am not into torturing any man by staying in a relationship with me that he doesn't want. I can see now that even if he doesn't want to be with me, there are others who do - and some of them even have more to offer. I sense that even though I didn't say this to my ex when I last saw him, that he is aware of my thoughts on this from my demeanour and the way I now relate to him, and he certainly seemed more respectful - and very interested in what I was doing with my life and who I was with. He even found an excuse to take me up to his bedroom to show me a smallish object I had already seen. Hmmm, maybe he had forgotten he had already shown me.