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  1. Wow, surprised how long this thread went for. Haven’t been here in close to 10 years? Memories. Can’t say I didn’t learn from this and that helped a lot. I don’t do crappy relationships anymore. No time for it, and I’d rather be single. Wish someone had shook me and said that years ago, maybe lightbulb would have went on. I guess its hard when you’re lonely and hurt and it seems like the source is someone else to see that clearly. The source was in me, but I selectively forgot that maybe. BS theories, I’ve got lots of em. I’ve been happily in love and married several years with a different ex that I got back together with (from even before), and we aren’t having these kinds of problems anymore. Mysterious stuff. Onward.
  2. hey, I notice this got bumped. here's the rest of the story.. I worked on my end of things for a long time and we were both changed by it. The original really nice feelings between us were restored for a time and it looked like there was a lot of reason to have hope. But every couple of months she would drift away again. Still, I kept plugging away. But along with a new confidence in myself and learning all this great stuff there was something else unexpected. I didn't feel this relationship was right for me anymore. I had changed a lot and she fell way behind. I decided to get on with my life. The difference is that now, I'm very at peace with it. I look back on my memories of us together in great fondness. And look forward to a new partner who is about where I am now
  3. My partner still has lots of ideas that are completely in conflict with the way I see things. But that she wants to have a relationship with me now makes that irrelevant. We started out much the same - she was completely 'unreasonable', wouldn't speak to me, angry, crazy etc. I guess I don't believe anymore in the idea of 'unreasonable'. I see 'unreasonable' as something that can only be relative to the 'reason' of another finite person. And I'm not god, don't believe I have direct access to the ultimate truth. Now I see my ideas about her 'unreasonableness' as the wall that blocked us from each other. I'm getting that some folks here see their situations as different and I see the sense of that too. I just don't see it that way and thought some people might be interested in my view. Love to hear your ideas though, respect what you're going though, and hope you keep plugging away. Will leave you to it..
  4. (my world) + (my partners world) Not trying to be funny. I think it's a fantastic question that pokes at the nature of reality.
  5. Speaking for me, I think any form of interpretation of what's going on with my partner is invalidating to my partner. I avoid constructing theories. I learned the source of those theories in me is my own abandonment pain. I concern myself less with how rational she is (which is really about how much she agrees with me) and more with learning how to communicate with her in a way such that she feels heard and understood. My thinking is getting things back to the way they were is exactly what we don't want. For me, that was a big missing piece I needed to learn.
  6. re: Turing Test - had to look that up, fascinating stuff! Raoul- I'm hearing how really awful this has been for you. Especially with the situation with the kids. Really stinks. I've got no idea what's really going on with her. But I believe that what she does and how she thinks about things are valid for her reality, no matter what it is. I think people always do what makes sense to them, and are doing their best at any given time from their relative point in the universe. I believe if you measure her rationality by your sense or interpretation, she'll keep on not telling you what's really going with her. And that she'll feel justified in continuing to shut you out. I agree that if she won't listen right now there is nothing you can do with her - for the time being. If I was to take a guess, it looks to me like she's comparing a romance with the other guy to the power struggle with you. Pretty much a no-brainer for her to my thinking, stick with the romance - keep ex-power stuggle partner uninvolved. And exploring a side of herself she wasn't comfortable expressing with you. But I've also seen that romance always ends. If you learn the missing pieces in the meantime, I'd think the guy she will then be in a power struggle with will be a lot less appealing.
  7. Raoul- So you believe she's not being rational in being unwilling to talk to you or receive any communication from you. Curious to hear your thoughts on why she would behave this way?
  8. This stuff does get complicated and I don't want to belittle that. But my belief is that for anyone who says 'we had a great marriage' when their partner left, I would rethink that idea. Something about the way we are triggered stuff in our partner that made them want to get out of that 'great marriage'. This is not to say I think our partners don't have work to do. I believe they do. But as the ones who want to repair the relationship, I think we are the ones who must lead and have the ability to do something about it. It's not fair, but I believe that's the way it is. Here's what I would say to a distant partner who will not speak to me, in a situation such as what I have been reading here. In a note- 'I've been working on myself and learning a lot from what happened. Realizing I used to think that my opinions were the way things were for everybody. But I'm doing something about it and trying to do better. I will always dream of someday doing better with you.'
  9. k, one nuance - can't say you 'get it' (understand) until you've mirrored what she says and she confirms you 'got it'. Only then will saying 'you make sense for feeling that way' give the other the experience of being understood. There will of course be mistakes along the way. Come to think of it, I don't use the words "i understand' until long after I've seen my partner is validated. Saying "Of course you feel that way", or the more direct, "Yeah, that makes sense" is talking about your partners sense. Saying "I understand" is talking about your own sense. Probably to say "I understand" before she feels validated is invalidating.
  10. Just sharing my thoughts. My thought of the 'what to do with that' goes something like 'I was thinking about our conversation. And wow - I really didn't get that before. But I'm hearing you left because you think I'm nuts.' - mirroring, and labeling her point of view as hers. 'Of course you felt that way.' - validating 'If at some point you'd like to share more about that I'd be really interested in hearing.' - inviting dialogue, not pushing, indicating that you can wait for an answer All said with confidence and a strong belief that she is congruent with herself, her history, her sense - prevalidating. Get comfortable with the idea of multiple truths. Monitor yourself if you see yourself stating your beliefs or interpretations as fact. Keep your interpretations about her to yourself. Learn to remove the habit of implying single truths, and know how to disarm it when your partner does it. 'Oh, so your belief is that I was extrapolating what you were saying..go on.' You reframe the statement as a belief. 'Oh, so when I said "And you think she's nuts", you thought I was stating a fact. I actually had a different idea. I was offering that as an interpretation of what you were saying, but seems I didn't get it'. And so on. I believe it may be that in her reality she thinks you're never going to change. I think that's the cement that holds her 'wall' up. And I think that can be a long term process, changing that perception. But for me it began with letting her know that I had been thinking about my part in this and I was working on myself, and that I had a new counselor. And as I learned to talk and relate differently, she began to get interested in learning about it herself. Wall began to evaporate.
  11. Yup. I did that too. My partner was upset and having a difficult time. I thought she had serious problems and so did my counselor who suggested that we find somebody to work with. But the last thing she wanted to hear from me was that I thought counseling might help. Boy was I an idiot. She wanted to be heard and seen, based on the way she experiences the world. Not have me figure out the best course of action based on the way I think about things. I now disagree with my ex-counselor. Such is life. The door I see opening is that I think she's giving you the opportunity to begin seeing her sense, whether she knows it or not. I believe she's been keeping her sense from you up till now because she didn't feel safe to tell the truth. And I have some thoughts about what one might do with that to open the door further. Interested?
  12. That was my interpretation of what you were saying. Seems I didn't get it. But I'd be interested in hearing what you believe is going on in your ex-partner if 'nuts' doesn't capture the idea. Good question on condescending. My view is that it's relative, and I'd be curious to hear how it sounded from your point of view. btw- the reason I chimed in at this point is that I don't think I ever saw you mention your partner saying she thought you were nuts and that's why she left. I think that's valuable information, and that a door is being opened..very slightly.
  13. Ah - so in your vocabulary the word nuts is degrading. Got it. And I'm hearing the way you heard what I said implied I believed I knew what you are thinking. And that my comment may have sounded condescending from your perspective. I can see how it would now. In my vocabulary, the word nuts, is a somewhat affectionate way of saying 'your sense makes no sense to me'. So perhaps I've misunderstood you. From my sense - what you are saying is that according to your sense your ex makes no sense due to her emotional instability. Did I get it?
  14. Sounds like she thinks you're nuts. And you think she's nuts. Who's 'right'?
  15. BRV- The way I am using these words is.. Mirroring is something you do that makes your partner feel heard. Validation is something that makes them feel understood. link removed
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