Example of how most men value looks over intelligence

Just for background, I'm a real estate appeals and litigation attorney. This morning I was at an appellate court to oppose an application by a tenant seeking a stay of her eviction from her apartment. Because of the type of application involved, we weren't arguing the application in the courtroom (which is formal), but in the clerk's office (relatively informal, but crowded), so there were a lot of other attorneys there also having their applications heard, milling around, talking to each other, etc.

The tenant on my case was not represented by an attorney, so she argued on her own behalf. She's in her mid-30s, pretty, wears a lot of makeup (almost too much), one of those size-zero petite types, but not too bright (her papers never make any sense and she can't put together a cogent sentence to save her life). I had argued against her before (I won) and I totally smoked her today (I won again).

There were a few pretty good looking male attorneys there. After our initial round of argument was done, we were waiting for further argument, questions from the court or the court's decision, and I saw several of those attorneys head over to the tenant to chat her up. After a period of joking around, she even went to the lobby with one guy to talk in private. Of course, not one guy approached me (true, I was in my professional mode, but still). I was standing around waiting and then overheard another male attorney say right in front of me: "That pro se plaintiff chick [the tenant] - she's really hot."

It just goes to show that most men who are my equals professionally only care about looks, not intelligence.

On a side note, I did find one of the attorneys attractive (he somewhat resembled my ex - same type) and he seemed to be glancing my way (and I glanced back), but he was chatting with some other attorneys the entire time and never approached me (I felt too weird to approach him while he was in a group).

The good news in all of this is that we finally get to evict the tenant (her case has no merit and has been dragging on forever).

In sum, professionally - good; personally - beyond frustrated.

I have seen examples of this and seen just as many counter-examples. My boyfriend now and my long term ex, as well as many men I have dated over the past 15 years and many men I know professionally and personally will not date a woman they don't consider highly intelligent - and they don't just say that - I have seen them reject very attractive women who they don't find bright enough because of the intelligence issue.

Are you pleased that you won the case because men appeared more attracted to her than to you despite not appearing to be as intelligent, or because, as a trained lawyer versus someone who apparently could not afford an attorney to plead for her, you were still able to win?

Yes. I concur with you counsel. It isn't FAIR that someone as dumb as a bag of hammers can attract so much attention..but that seems to be how our race continues on. If humanity was dependant upon intelligence...our species would surely die out. That is why really smart people work diligently in both areas...so that their odds are better in the scheme of things. Perhaps one of those really intelligent male attorneys could rent her a place....because she is hot. Hope they don't expect her to actually PAY rent ! Why was she evicted?

maybe you intimidate them? maybe you'll smoke them like you smoked the other girl?

your scaring me8-[

Are you pleased that you won the case because men appeared more attracted to her than to you despite not appearing to be as intelligent, or because, as a trained lawyer versus someone who apparently could not afford an attorney to plead for her, you were still able to win?

Maybe if this woman had been more intelligent, she would have been able to stay out of court entirely. I dated an attorney once...I wouldn't consider a courtroom full of them drooling over me a garden of opportunity or a huge compliment anyhow. Poor dumb lady.

I personally find it silly when just because a professional like an attorney is a woman she is labeled as "intimidating" when if a man acts exactly the same way he is just behaving normally. I am a professional, always worked with a lot of men in the same profession, always dated highly intelligent/successful men and I know that I've never intimidated someone who would be right for me - meaning yes I might intimidate someone who is painfully insecure but that person would not be a good match for me as a friend or a date. In that case the person is intimidated not "because" of me but because he (or she) is scared of his own shadow.

I know it's a little sad, but there's a lot of men who don't want a woman who thinks too much. Intelligent women who think a lot tend to analyze, criticize, debate, and a lot of men just wants someone "fun" sometimes. Just because the other attorney's were lusting over this girl doesn't mean they all wanted to marry her or make her the mother of their children.

And men, as well as women I should say, are visual and can say, "dang, did you see that hot chick," more easily than saying, "wow, did you hear that amazing coherent sentence that girl just said."

I think men value intelligence, but they separate what they want in a girl for long term, and who they want to drool over momentarily. Know what I'm saying?

Are you basing the idea she is "not intelligent" on the fact she is an unrepresented party? I have not seen many unrepresented litigants put together very coherent court documents because they aren't trained in the area.

I would say I am intelligent. But there are others whom are definitely smarter too. I would also say I am attractive. Not everyone's type, but I feel confident with who I am. I don't see how putting others down for being "unintelligent" makes me more so however.

And we all have our strengths in different areas. I may be smart when it comes to some political or social issues or for example, but if it comes to explaining geo- thermal energy and how heat pumps operate, well, I have to ask my boyfriend!

It just seems catty to assume that all she has to offer is looks. And she cannot help that your peers are over her for that either.

I agree with Batya, I certainly don't think this is "proof" of anything. I know just as many peers whom go for a "complete package" or whom want a smart, confident woman by their side when it comes to relationships. Does not mean they don't think hot women aren't hot...but they also realize attraction and love is about more than being hot.

 

And men, as well as women I should say, are visual and can say, "dang, did you see that hot chick," more easily than saying, "wow, did you hear that amazing coherent sentence that girl just said."

 

I think men value intelligence, but they separate what they want in a girl for long term, and who they want to drool over momentarily. Know what I'm saying?

This what I tried to get accross, but you put it much more succintly than I did, thanks!

Well, the men who ran after this woman only viewed her as a giant vagina so clearly these men are not worth very much. No sense getting bent out of shape...you can do much better than those men.

are you saying you are less attractive than the defendant girl? anyways, i bet you looked more professional and intimidating than she did. the guys probably figured they could console her in her time of loss and eventually get some. they probably figure and easier chance than the sophisticated ice queen that just shut her down and won. lol. that's what they think prolly.

It just seems to me very judgmental to say that this woman is attractive but dumb. Bad things happen even to smart people and I doubt that she left the court thinking that a bunch of lawyers being attracted to her was much compensation for losing her home even if her case had no merit.

Surely no one is cheering because the 'dumb' woman lost to the 'smart' woman simply because the former was viewed as more attractive?

and maybe that girl is really smart. how do you compare this? you are better at being an attorney type than she is. maybe she can whoop you in some ping pong. then what?

and maybe that girl is really smart. how do you compare this? you are better at being an attorney type than she is. maybe she can whoop you in some ping pong. then what?

I'm actually quite good at ping pong. LOL

I'm actually quite good at ping pong. LOL

haha, but maybe she can win. doesn't make her smarter than you though. lol, that's all.

Just because a FEW men hit on a sexy woman over a professional woman doesn't mean that MOST men prefer looks over intellect. Come on, that's like LSAT 101. You of all people should catch the logical reasoning flaw in your own argument.

Your story just proves to me that those in law aren't very bright.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But fail to see where you got what you did from all that. ??

Are you looking to prove a point to yourself, or something?

Yes. I concur with you counsel. It isn't FAIR that someone as dumb as a bag of hammers can attract so much attention..but that seems to be how our race continues on. If humanity was dependant upon intelligence...our species would surely die out. That is why really smart people work diligently in both areas...so that their odds are better in the scheme of things. Perhaps one of those really intelligent male attorneys could rent her a place....because she is hot. Hope they don't expect her to actually PAY rent ! Why was she evicted?

She had actually signed a stipulation (written agreement settling the case) in the middle of trial in 2005 (she had an attorney then) in which she agreed to vacate and surrender possession of the apartment in January 2007 and withdrew all of her defenses and claims in the case, among other things. Of course, she didn't vacate the apartment. Since the beginning of the year, she has been trying to set aside the stipulation, on grounds that she didn't have the mental capacity to enter into the stipulation in 2005 (not true and there is no proof of that). She also raised some other irrelevant stuff that is too convoluted to go into here.

So, basically, she was just trying to renege on her agreement to vacate. She's not even legally a tenant (I was just using that term generically here) - her father was the tenant, he vacated and, based on the chronology of events prior to the beginning of this case, she had no legal rights to the apartment in the first place.

Well, the men who ran after this woman only viewed her as a giant vagina so clearly these men are not worth very much. No sense getting bent out of shape...you can do much better than those men.

hehe, that was funny. But I do know what you mean, sort of! I work in law, and my boss is a really big letch, his girlfriends are pretty dumb (they come in the office at times) and all the men drool over them. I don't thinks its attraction to the dumb, its just attraction to the hot, as always.

Just because a FEW men hit on a sexy woman over a professional woman doesn't mean that MOST men prefer looks over intellect. Come on, that's like LSAT 101. You of all people should catch the logical reasoning flaw in your own argument.

I absolutely despised taking the LSATs all those years ago. Weird test.

I was just trying to illustrate a general trend from my experiences. In my experience, most men do act this way.

I personally find it silly when just because a professional like an attorney is a woman she is labeled as "intimidating" when if a man acts exactly the same way he is just behaving normally. I am a professional, always worked with a lot of men in the same profession, always dated highly intelligent/successful men and I know that I've never intimidated someone who would be right for me - meaning yes I might intimidate someone who is painfully insecure but that person would not be a good match for me as a friend or a date. In that case the person is intimidated not "because" of me but because he (or she) is scared of his own shadow.

I totally agree with you. I don't think that I'm intimidating at all. However, sometimes, especially in court, I have to adopt an aggressive persona to get the job done. Of course, male attorneys do that all of the time, and no one thinks twice about it.

hehe, that was funny. But I do know what you mean, sort of! I work in law, and my boss is a really big letch, his girlfriends are pretty dumb (they come in the office at times) and all the men drool over them. I don't thinks its attraction to the dumb, its just attraction to the hot, as always.

I've personally met male elementary school teachers, male stockbrokers, male executive recruiters, male cashiers and male graduate school professors who are like this - has nothing to do with a particular profession or job.

Having been in and argued in the NY Courts, the attention she got seems to be a case of a bunch of lawyers seeking to get a client, not a date.

I've never seen a man, any man, suceessfully pull a woman out of a herd of other men and get a date. I have however seen a lawyer get a client out of such a cattle call.

I think the men you are seeking are the oens who are seeking the combination of looks, intelligence, character, etc., that you represent.

Some men will like what she represents, some will like what you represent. The same men will not seek the two of you for any long term thing.

Men? Both men and women will tend to approach someone and/or make a comment about someone they find classically attractive. It's not a sexist thing.... it's just human nature. This doesn't mean, however, that any of these men would rather date this woman, have her as a GF, or be in a significant longterm relationship with her. It merely means that she's attractive, and that's what they've recognized.

If you walk into a garden, and see an assortment of tulips of every variety, you're likely going to gravitate toward the most striking tulips first. Flowers, people, shiny things... it's all the same. That's what catches our attention. We're hardwired that way, all of us.

So do looks matter most on first impression? Of course they do. That's not a theory nor a revelation. That's just biology. No probs though. As we all know, looks make it easier to get your foot in the door, but they don't make it much easier for anyone to sustain a connection. And intelligence? Ok, sure. That's an attractive quality as well, but not always recognizeable on sight.

And beyond that, a person could be both undeniably intelligent, and strikingly good looking and still be unliked, unloved, a bore, irritating, etc. In most cases, it doesn't = more attractive in the long run.