Example of how most men value looks over intelligence

[annie24]

that is a good point. I know when I drop some books or papers, any guy nearby will pick them up for me, even if I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself.

[Belle]

Unlike a lot of the guys that responded, I do agree with your assessment. Men do gravitate towards more attractive women. Whereas women tend to look at the whole picture and assess a man's potential for a relationship, men tend to prioritize attraction a lot more heavily.

 

Getting that kind of attention isn't all it's cracked up to be. It means you spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out if the guy's a shady character or interested in who you are. Lots and lots of false leads. I've dated a lot, but haven't had a serious long term relationship in about 6 years.

 

Plus, like the red head mentioned, there's an awful lot of unwanted and creepy attention that comes as well.

[TXStar7128]

I haven't read all the posts here, so I might be jumping around a bit. But I do want to lend a little validaiton to the original posters thoughts...I've known pleanty of smart guys, with graduate degress, who are fairly intelligent individuals. The girls they generally date have been horrendously stupid. Maybe I'm biased....I also went to law school. But we are talking girls its painfull to have a conversation with. You can absolutely tell that about 75% of any intelligent conversation goes completely over their heads. BUT, you have to look at these guys closer. Sure, they are smart. But they are grade A assh*les. Arrogant beyond all belief (and obviously insecure.) They are pretty clearly after women that they can lord over, so they will always be the better, smarter ones in the relationship. And they want a hot girl because they think it will make them look better to everyone else. Absolutel jerks. And, they are all right around 30, if not older, and not a single one is married. They can't find any sort of functional relationship because of they type of women they go after.

 

My most recent ex was like this I think. I've heard through the grapevine I was basically the only girl he has dated in the recent past that was remotely intelligent. His exes include hairdressers, and, what his friend describes as "druggie dumb b*tches." What I discovered about him, that is probably true of a lot of these guys, is that the same things he found attractive in me (independent, intelligent, strong) were the same things he couldn't handle in the relationship. So, I think most of these guys just aren't strong enough to handle strong, smart women, so they go after someone they can handle, and someone that makes them look good in the process, so the end result is that they end up feeling better about themselves all around.

 

Who wants to be with men like this? I know I've certainly learned my lesson. If a guy is going for dumb, hot girls, you don't need him...he definitely cannot handle you...of this I am 100% sure. It will be all problems. Shallow, superficial men are absolutely nothing but problems--please trust me on this one!!!!

 

And, just in case you were wondering...I've been told that I'm fairly attractive. I get a lot of looks from men. I frequently get random guys walking up to me telling me things like I'm the most beautiful girl in the bar, and then walking away. I also graduated from a top teir law school, and have a job at a private equity firm. Dating is still not easy for me. I've been treated horribly by many men. I don't go out on dates every night of the week. About two months ago, I was hurt more than I even knew it was possible by a man. Things are not always easy in the dating department. So don't think that looks get you any more than intelligence. I know pleanty of people that I think are generally less attractive than I am, that graduated with me, and are happily married/engaged/whatever. I'm not. Looks may get your foot in the door, but they certainly don't get you any further...

[Crazyaboutdogs]

If you want to trigger this instinct more often, try "dropping a hankie" or its equivalent every now and then. Guys tripping over themselves to help a woman perceived as in need of masculine strength are probably not reacting in the most enlightened way, but it is what it is. Put it to use in your favor. I have a hunch that a little flirting might be all that is necessary to fix your social issues. Best wishes.

 

I saw that "dropping a hankie" trick in an old Lana Turner/Clark Gable movie. I think it was used as a flirtation technique. I seem to remember Clark Gable's character picking up the hankie in a very mocking way....reminded me of his character "Rhett Butler" in Gone With The Wind who mocked the flirtation tactics of Scarlett O'Hara.

[JadedStar]

I wouldn't make generalizations based on your preferences. I work in the science field and have seen many scientists marry fellow scientists...some who even worked in the same laboratory as grad students. It is actually very common for scientists to marry scientists. I have also seen the same with MDs. I think if you look around, you will find quite a number of people in the professional fields who marry someone within their profession. Writers marrying writers, actors marrying actresses. Not everyone feels that they OWN a line of work and their potential partner can't ever belong in that "club".

 

Hmm, he stated this was HIS preference. I am not sure how stating ones personal preference is making a generalization? he never stated that he thought this was the norm.

[JadedStar]

Unlike a lot of the guys that responded, I do agree with your assessment. Men do gravitate towards more attractive women. Whereas women tend to look at the whole picture and assess a man's potential for a relationship, men tend to prioritize attraction a lot more heavily.

 

Getting that kind of attention isn't all it's cracked up to be. It means you spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out if the guy's a shady character or interested in who you are. Lots and lots of false leads. I've dated a lot, but haven't had a serious long term relationship in about 6 years.

 

Plus, like the red head mentioned, there's an awful lot of unwanted and creepy attention that comes as well.

 

The trick is being savvy enough to be able to distinguish between a diehard flirt and someone genuinely interested. The biggest mistake most women make is falling for the guy who is the most charming and the best flirt. this type of man does not always make for the best dating partner. I find it better to just be flattered by the type of man who would fawn all over you for your appearance but give creedence only to those who also make you feel special for other non physical attributes.

 

Seriously, falling for a man who only ever seems interested in how you look can be detrimental. Many shy or insecure women fall for this kind of guy and they know it, and they loom in on this type of woman.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree 100% with your post. While there are definitely lots of men who go for their intellectual equal, I have also seen lots of professional men steer clear of anyone at their intellectual level. If they do go for someone who is intelligent and successful, the woman is often about 8-10 years younger than him...thus ensuring in his mind that he has some sense of superiority.

 

With regards to looks not being everything...that is true... I have seen some rather unattractive women who are in relationships, engaged or married. I have seen very large women have success in the relationship arena...many of them even married to slim men.

[JadedStar]

I think that some of you are making horrible generalizations about people's intelligence.

 

These women you have branded as stupid might not know anything about law or whatever the profession might be that you are versed in, but might be very smart in other areas.

 

I find it odd that those who are talking about the ills of generalizations are making them the most.

 

It is also a very common mistake to see a very pretty woman and assume she is dumb. This is a generalization that happens all the time and people overlook it because it is easier to hate her then think maybe she does have some gray cells.

 

Seems like a lot of hating on people because they are pretty. You would not like it if they were hating and judging you because they thought you were smart but plain jane. Would you?

[RayKay]

I think that some of you are making horrible generalizations about people's intelligence.

 

These women you have branded as stupid might not know anything about law or whatever the profession might be that you are versed in, but might be very smart in other areas.

 

I find it odd that those who are talking about the ills of generalizations are making them the most.

 

It is also a very common mistake to see a very pretty woman and assume she is dumb. This is a generalization that happens all the time and people overlook it because it is easier to hate her then think maybe she does have some gray cells.

 

Seems like a lot of hating on people because they are pretty. You would not like it if they were hating and judging you because they thought you were smart but plain jane. Would you?

 

Yup, there are plenty of women in my class for example whom could be models, or may have appeared to be a "dumb blonde" to some of those here...but meanwhile they are excelling in the class and are extremely intelligent and overall wonderful people too.

 

My sister is seriously hot...she has men hitting on her all the time. I am sure some think she is "all looks, no brains"...but she is VERY smart, and also very confident and sure of herself...she would not give guys only into her for looks the time of day.

 

Again, as you said, generalizations do nothing but make the one making them look critical and unattractive.

[JadedStar]

There are some pretty girls who are dumb as a rock, but there are others who are smart as a whip.

 

And I must say, i have met as many very "plain" girls who were also dumb as a rock. Sometimes people stereotype on the inverse and assume that a plain girl is smarter than a prettier one. It does not always work this way. I guess life isn't fair.

 

Sorry to say it, but it must be said. LOL

[servedcold]

BUT, you have to look at these guys closer. Sure, they are smart. But they are grade A assh*les. Arrogant beyond all belief (and obviously insecure.) They are pretty clearly after women that they can lord over, so they will always be the better, smarter ones in the relationship.

 

OK, Tex, there's lots of truth in what you are saying here, and in the rest of your post, but I wanted to add a different spin based on personal experience. I'm likely one of the types you are decrying, but with a twist, as I came to my current attitudes based on years of experience. I've always dated highly intelligent, accomplished women, some very attractive physically, some not so much. The raw intelligence has always been the determining attractant for me. However, having recently (over the last two years) been dragged onto an emotional rollercoaster by two highly intelligent, educated, accomplished, sex in the city-bred, thoroughly emotionally disordered, manipulative, hyper-privileged drama queens without a shred of integrity... in a row, I would welcome a date with a hairdresser, and think you may be doing hairdressers a disservice in your post.

 

I would absolutely love to meet an attractive uneducated woman with solid ethics and a pleasant nature who is capable of consistency in thought and deed... and who cares if she is dumb as dirt. I can always reread my Kierkegaard for intellectual stimulation, but have had my heart handed to me on a platter one too many times by overachievers to blindly seek intelligence/education in a woman at the expense of other attributes going forward. Over 25 years of dating that type, I have found they often come with enough baggage to have their own kiosk at the airport.

 

Sometimes the preferences men form are based on hard cold experience over years and years rather than insecurity, arrogance, seeking arm-candy or a desire to "lord it over" their woman. And though this is a bit "ranty," I believe it's firmly on topic in this thread. Yes, men respond to better looking women more, as women respond to better looking men, we all know that. Stopping at that level of analysis is really not productive. The deeper point to explore is that seeking any one characteristic, looks, bank account, intelligence, etc., at the expense of other "must haves" is foolhardy for women or men, and lands lots of people here on ENA (self included) bemoaning their social and sexual mistakes.

 

EDIT: OK, no I won't date a woman who is "dumb as dirt," but you get my drift...

[JadedStar]

I would absolutely love to meet an attractive uneducated woman with solid ethics and a pleasant nature who is capable of consistency in thought and deed... and who cares if she is dumb as dirt. I can always reread my Kierkegaard for intellectual stimulation, but have had my heart handed to me on a platter one too many times by overachievers to blindly seek intelligence/education in a woman at the expense of other attributes going forward. Over 25 years of dating that type, I have found they often come with enough baggage to have their own kiosk at the airport.

 

 

what you state can also apply to women dating. I dated a man who was uber intelligent and a total a hole. I would take a "dumber" man anyday of the week who was sweet over an intelligent man who thought he ruled the roost.

 

Luckily i now have a very smart man who is also a decent caring man. I finally found that they do exist. Took me a long time to realize that. LOL

[annie24]

there are some intelligent, educated, SANE AND STABLE women out there too, ya know

[JadedStar]

there are some intelligent, educated, SANE AND STABLE women out there too, ya know

 

Aint it da truth. LOL

 

it's just plain unfair to generalize no matter what end of the stick you are doing it on. Sometimes people think it is ok to generalize if the ones being generalized are overly attractive. I find that as wrong as those who generalize about people who are unattractive.

[servedcold]

I saw that "dropping a hankie" trick in an old Lana Turner/Clark Gable movie.

 

Thank goodness for netflicks, eh? Had Maltese Falcon this week, and Fiddler on the Roof on the way, they don't even have the "classics" section at Blockheads any more... if you think of the title, would like to put it in the cue. To the OP, watching old movies is great for building flirty skills, movies these days it's all hop in the sack, no finesse.

[JadedStar]

Thank goodness for netflicks, eh? Had Maltese Falcon this week, and Fiddler on the Roof on the way, they don't even have the "classics" section at Blockheads any more... if you think of the title, would like to put it in the cue. To the OP, watching old movies is great for building flirty skills, movies these days it's all hop in the sack, no finesse.

 

You are right, and this is why i am netflix all the way and crap wtih blockbuster, err blockheads. LOL

[servedcold]

Absolutely the same can apply to overachieving men, just haven't dated any of those Wanted to make the point that we men are simple creatures, but usually not quite as simple as portrayed. It's not all about arm-candy and keeping the little woman chained up in the kitchen. I guess what got me riled was that I met a really cool hairdresser the other day. Hairdressers need love too, right?

[JadedStar]

Absolutely the same can apply to overachieving men, just haven't dated any of those Wanted to make the point that we men are simple creatures, but usually not quite as simple as portrayed. It's not all about arm-candy and keeping the little woman chained up in the kitchen. I guess what got me riled was that I met a really cool hairdresser the other day. Hairdressers need love too, right?

 

LOL. I am sure they do.

[TXStar7128]

I guess all I can say is, to each his own...you know? There are plenty of guys out there who date all the dumb, hot girls they can get. There are plenty of girls out there who dates all the rich guys they can find. There are plenty of smart girls with emotional problems (actually, I know a lot.) There are plenty of rich guys with are dumb. I do believe that we have stereotypes for a reason...because, generally speaking, the majority of people fall into that category. Its not to say all people do...there are certainly plenty of exceptions to any rule. But generalizations have to stem from somewhere...they are called generalization because generally, certain groups of people have these traits.

 

And, just for arguments sake, I have to disagree with everyone saying things like "these girls might be smarter in other areas." Being a nice, kind, good person doesn't make you smart. It makes you nice, kind, and good. All of which are great things to be. But, they aren't the same as intelligence. They are equally important in my book, but not the same. I think we need to be honest here...half the people in this world are below average intelligence by definition. Knowing everything about the history of polka-dots doesn't necessarily make you smart. Smart is pretty much, well, smart. There are no other areas to it really.

[JadedStar]

Sounds like you have a lot of hatred over attractive people txstar. I don't know where you come from, but I know gobs of attractive people who would rival you or anyone here on the intelligence factor.

 

You might ask yourself why you equate looks with being stupid. I say this because of this statement you made, that sounds really bitter:

 

There are plenty of guys out there who date all the dumb, hot girls they can get.

 

Seems you are automatically dismissing these "hot" girls as dumb....last I checked anyone regardless of how they looked could be pretty intelligent.

 

I have worked with some of the smartest people around, and some of them were not attractive, but some of them were extremely good looking - male and female.

[TXStar7128]

Oh, and I'm not trying to diss hairdressers. I have a friend who is one. I guess, on the other side, I dated a guy who said he would never date a girl who went to Texas Tech because he thinks its a bad college (yes, he was attempting to act like that much of a snob.) Then I found out he dated a hair dresser who didn't go to college. I just found it to be slightly hypocritical, and it got me equally riled up.

 

I will admit, being a well educated woman, its frustrating to see how little some men value intelligence, education, and ambition in women. To me, because I am intelligent, educated, and ambitious, I would have a very difficult, if not impossible, time being with someone who wasn't the same way. Its hard to understand how men don't feel that way to, thats all.

[Batya33]

What has worked for me in the dating arena (I am a professional too - and I remember being asked by one of my colleagues when we both started out whether by going into this profession we "priced ourselves out of the [singles]market because men would be intimidated." I didn't agree then and I don't agree now. I know how to remove my professional "hat" and be feminine, fun, etc (I am also feminine and fun at work but to a lesser extent and it depends on the "audience").

 

I totally agree that a woman should make the most of her looks but within reason. And yes, it should come as no surprise that I strategized and analyzed this about myself many years ago. My conclusion was, and still is: I am not the glamour girl that stands out in the bar/club scene (well, I am only 5"2 for one thing)- thereforeeee, to try to be "that girl" would be a waste of time and fake.

 

What I have known for many years is that I am the "ivory girl" (an old commercial reference to ivory soap) or "the girl next door" type. Not all men like that type - that's cool - I'm not attracted to all men, either. I learned how to apply makeup and how to dress to be the ivory girl without looking too conservative. That felt natural to me.

 

Sure, in a perfect world I suppose a woman would never have to get dressed up or wear makeup - but it makes me feel good to do that -not all the time but some of the time. I also like when my boyfriend gets dressed up and takes pride in his appearance. Nothing wrong with it and I don't find it shallow.

 

to the OP - what's attractive I find about intelligent women - is their sparkle - you can't sparkle from makeup, but the right makeup can enhance the sparkle.

 

just my two cents.

[JadedStar]

Two things Batya:

 

one, we petite girls can very much stand out in a club, I am 4'11 and always held my own (many men love small women) when i went out, LOL and

 

two, the girl next door look is more appealing to many guys then the "plastic" look.

[violingirl]

You really get my point. Excellently put.

 

Believe me, I didn't want any of those guys that went flocking to her, because most of them seemed like the men you described above anyway - I just wanted to make the point that for a lot of men, attractiveness trumps intelligence.

 

On the other hand, the guy that I had my eye on didn't flock over to her.

[TXStar7128]

I think you need to remember that the OP is talking about dumb, hot girls. No one here ever claimed that all hot girls are dumb. I've been told I fall into the "hot" girl category, and I'm certainly not dumb. There are plenty of hot, smart girls, and plenty of dumb, ugly ones. But for the purposes of her original post, the OP was talking about the first category only, as was I.

 

I guess I'm just trying to be a little more of a realist about the whole thing. My ex's best friend, who graduated from law school and has a great job, was dating a girl who, I'm sorry, was dumb as rocks. She was a beautiful, tall, big-breatsed blonde. As sweet as can be and I really liked her. However, she thought you sliced "guacamoles" to put them on your sandwhich, and didn't know what SOL meant. She wasn't smart...straight up. Doesn't matter that else she was good at, or what else she was...she still wasn't a smart girl. And you know what? That was totally fine with me...we had a good time the night we all went out. And interestingly enough, the guys were the ones trashing her stupidity the most after that evening, not me, not any other girl...

 

Violingirl...Well, then the guy you liked was clearly the kind of guy you need to look for! They are definitely out there...you just need to realize that guys that go after certain types of women are certain types of guys (the ones I mentioned in my post.) They aren't all men (although a lot of men may fall into this category!) Do you really play the violin??? I do too...kinda funny we are both violin-playing law school grads...