Wife wants separation for independence

[fantom1399]

1 minute ago, Coily said:

Also I would recommend that you retain any texts or other things where she mentions wanting to run off an bang some guy. This isn't for divorce, this is for custody; and you will need every tool possible.

Stay strong, you are doing this so your son can thrive.

Everything has been verbal. we haven't texted a lot for a while. just memes and videos

[boltnrun]

Also remember if you choose to stay with your parents she will feel free to bring home random men to bang. In the family home. With your child present. 

[Andrina]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:47 AM, fantom1399 said:

She makes considerably more money than me but she is the one always spending.

This is likely the reason she hasn't suggested divorce. She might have spoken to an attorney or to others in the know, and has found out that she, as the breadwinner, will be the bigger loser financially with a split. You might be eligible for alimony and she probably knows she's the one who will be having to pay you custody payments.

The other poster was correct in that you should not leave the family home. Begin mentally separating yourself from her and tell her the new rule is that you two only speak about your child as co-parents, and that there will be no more talk of feelings between each other and those sorts of things.

Of course, you might first want to wait to do this until after you privately speak to an attorney, and separate your credit card and bank accounts. 

Luckily for you, judges are usually intelligent about reading between the lines and seeing past BS when deciding which parent should have primary custody. Good luck.

[lostandhurt]

I know you want to go off on her if she brings some dude around your son but please refrain from anything and take the high road.  She may even bait you into getting upset just so she can use it against you later.  Stay calm and if need be walk away but always take the high road.  It is uphill both ways but once you reach the top after all this is over you will feel good that you did the right thing.  Besides explaining this to a cop on your door step because she called them is not something you want your son to witness.

  I know this will sound kind of stupid but her not caring is a very good thing for you.  Right now she more than likely has been having sex with someone else for a while and is in the fantasy phase that she wants to stay in so she will make bad decisions do keep it going.  She wants out and wants it fast so play in to that while you keep a calm head.  As far as custody goes offer something up so she has a lot of freedom to run around with her bf's while you have your son.  I saw my son 6 days a week, had him every weekend and holiday because my ex saw it as freedom to do her own thing.  Be smart, stay silent and look for advantages you can use. 

  Talk to your parents but do not move out.  Basically make plans so you know you and your son have a safe place to go at a moments notice which will relieve some of the stress and fear.  Then the business of selling assets and the timing of that will not be a big deal to you.

  It is good you have a friend to talk to that has been through this and that you can also see he survived it all.

  Lost

[fantom1399]

I feel like she keeps playing mind games with me. I told her that we needs to go over our finances and what to do with our assets (mainly the house). She tells me that she doesn't want to make a drastic change 'for the kids' and that she can take over the payments and everything for the house. ok but where does that leave me? She keeps suggesting that she can keep the house. I know I can't handle the payments right now due to the crazy interest rates but I don't want to leave the house to her unless she buys me out. I mentioned the legal separation agreement through a paralegal and she seemed to be shocked about it. She said "oh wow. So you've thought about this, haven't you?" Of course I have. My world has been turned upside down and she thinks that everything is just going to be the same except without me. She said that we can put it into our separation agreement where the house would go to her but if she ever sells the house, we would split the proceeds. I don't like that idea. Not one bit but because I could feel the anger building and I didn't want to say something I would regret, I told her that we would take a break and talk about the ins and outs tomorrow when we draft something up.

Craziest thing, when she mentioned about her keeping the house, she asked where I was going to go. I initially said that I don't know. She mentioned that she would like me to be in the same town as her for my son so that he can come and visit me anytime. NO. Why would I want to see her and other guys come around to a place I use to consider my home? What a joke. When she said that, I immediately thought that it's not for my son, its more for her so that I can help her pick my son up if she's working late or whatever. I told her that if we were ever to get back together, I would be able to come back to this house knowing another man has been in my bedroom that we once shared. Then she has the audacity to joke about a reason to get a new bed. Or we can move somewhere else. but if we plan on moving somewhere else if we get back together, then clearly the house isn't that much of an issue to her. 

She doesn't sounds crazy when we're talking but all her requests are nuts. Like she's not thinking clearly. I said out of respect for me and my child, do not bring her lifestyle around him. Whatever she does is on her own time but when my child is around, he will see nothing and hear nothing about what she wants to do. She agreed but who knows. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, fantom1399 said:

 I mentioned the legal separation agreement through a paralegal and she seemed to be shocked about it. She said "oh wow. So you've thought about this, haven't you?"  She said that we can put it into our separation agreement where the house would go to her but if she ever sells the house, we would split the proceeds. 

Please, Please follow the advice of an attorney instead of these ad hoc conversations with her. 

By giving her the heads up and entertaining these raw deals she's proposing, you're putting yourself in a precarious position. You don't discuss your separation agreement with your estranged spouse and she sort of makes it up to her advantage. Your attorney talks to her attorney. 

Please keep your communication with legal counsel private and confidential. Do not disclose anything to her. Get your ducks in a row first.

Please understand that separation/divorce is a lawsuit with a plaintiff and defendant. Unfortunately that's necessary to dissolve the marriage, division of assets and custody decisions. 

[redswim30]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please, Please follow the advice of an attorney instead of these ad hoc conversations with her. 

By giving her the heads up and entertaining these raw deals she's proposing, you're putting yourself in a precarious position. You don't discuss your separation agreement with your estranged spouse and she sort of makes it up to her advantage. Your attorney talks to her attorney. 

Please keep your communication with legal counsel private and confidential. Do not disclose anything to her. Get your ducks in a row first.

Please understand that separation/divorce is a lawsuit with a plaintiff and defendant. Unfortunately that's necessary to dissolve the marriage, division of assets and custody decisions. 

^THIS! 

OP, you need to do three things immediately. 

1. DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE under any circumstances.  Even if you or she sleep in different rooms or one of you on the couch.  If she wants to leave, she can.  After all, she's the one who wants "independence".  She cannot force you to leave your own house.  If you leave, this will only make things worse for you in the long run- DO NOT DO IT. 

2. STOP trying to logic this out with your wife.  She's made it pretty clear that she is going to do whatever she wants, no matter what you say.  She has zero interest in being fair or kind to you.  Do NOT let her emotionally manipulate you about "what's best for your child", when all she's interested in at the moment is herself.   Also, she is bringing alternate lifestyle into the conversation, which is pretty insulting and belittling to these communities.  Poly-amorous relationships only work when BOTH people are poly-amorous (or at least ok with it).  What she is describing is not polyamory anyway.  She is describing a relationship in which you are faithful to her while she abandons you physically and emotionally, acts single and cheats on you, her monogamous husband.   She's only thinking of herself.  She clearly doesn't care what happens to you and is already trying to set things up in which she gets everything she wants and you get screwed over.  She's trying to made it look like- YOU left the house, and she was left alone with your child.  She wants to try to have everything- Do whatever she wants regardless of how you feel and STILL trying to make it look like she is a good wife and mother, when she isn't being either right now.  STOP telling her your plans or your innermost thoughts.  

3. CONSULT AN ATTORNEY RIGHT NOW.   Seriously.  Please do this right away! You need LEGAL advice from an expert.  Do not do ANYTYHING until you speak to an attorney.  Do NOT leave the house, no matter how heated things get.  I'm sorry to say that you have to accept facts that your marriage is over and begin making a plan to protect yourself and your child.   SAVE ALL YOUR TEXTS and anything you have in writing from your wife.  DO NOT let your emotions control you.  Get solid legal advice and then work out what you will do. 

I'm so sorry you are going through this, OP.   I know it hurts.  The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to stay put, consult an attorney and remain in your house.  You need to find a good attorney and make a solid plan.  This is the only way to protect you and your child. 

[Coily]

Also do not in anyway let her take over all the house payments. 
She is setting you up for being the villain in any custody hearing. All this crap about “you can visit, or you can help; you need to just ignore this gaslighting; and go for full primary custody of your son.

Her “lifestyle” is unhealthy for your son to be thrown into. She is making all of these malignant decisions for her own indulgence and gives not one wit about what is best for your son or her other child.

Be calm (at Least infront of this woman) and root yourself firmly in the home. She can move out if she wants.

[lostandhurt]

Fantom,

 As far as the house goes she cannot just take over the payments.  She will have to get a totally new loan to remove you off the deed and on top of that she has to pay you half the equity on the house which means she either over borrows to pay the old loan off and pay you or the house gets sold, the equity is split evenly and you both go your own way.  Putting the house on the market can possibly make you a little more money but it is not a sure thing and it takes longer and you both have to agree to the selling price.  If she gets a new loan the house needs to be appraised by a reputable appraisal company or two or three and then average the appraisals.  This is faster and is cleaner.

  You do not want your name staying on the deed, insurance, power bill or anything so think about what you want and then  discuss it with your legal advisor. 

This is all assuming there is equity...

 The discussions with her can leave you scratching your head so it is best to stop trying to make sense out of nonsense.  She is thinking she has all the cards so let her keep thinking that while you plan and execute.

  Here are a few things you need to be thinking about.

Your sons healthcare, if she pays child support or alimony she needs a life insurance policy with you as the beneficiary, child support, custody, vacations, holiday, alimony, retirement accounts, debts, credit cards, cell phone plan, car insurance, who will claim your son on taxes and pick up drop off arrangements.  These are a few things for you to start figuring out so when you do sit down with someone you are ready to go.  

Hang in there you are doing great

Lost 

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

 She said that we can put it into our separation agreement where the house would go to her but if she ever sells the house, we would split the proceeds. 

Hell no. She can't make up deals like this. Depending on your jurisdiction, the courts decide about the house and who gets what and how.

She can not, under any circumstances, ask you to leave your residence and the marital home or take you off the deed. She can pay the mortgage all as she wants but the mortgage is just a bank loan. The deed is the ownership. Don't listen to a word she says. The good news is she obviously hasn't sought legal counsel with the idiotic suggestions she has. 

[fantom1399]

I've finally decided to seek legal advice. She worked all day and had a dinner and show with some work colleagues (all women) but she isn't home yet and it's almost 1am. She also packed an overnight bag but I didn't think much about it because she had to bring a change of clothes for the show. Now it's got me thinking if it's actually with Co-workers or if it is a guy. NGL it's probably the latter. I just feel stupid to be backed into the exact situation she wanted. I'm at home with the kids while she is out doing whatever she is doing. It's my son's birthday party tomorrow, I don't know how I can look at her and not get angry....

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

I've finally decided to seek legal advice. She also packed an overnight bag I'm at home with the kids while she is out doing whatever she is doing. 

Unfortunately she's just following through with her cheating and plan to have an "open relationship". 

She's sneaking around with stories about women coworkers because you didn't go along with the polyamory or open marriage suggestion.

She seems determined to sleep with other men whether it's in your face or behind your back.  Please stop trying to negotiate with her. 

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

I'm at home with the kids while she is out doing whatever she is doing. It's my son's birthday party tomorrow, I don't know how I can look at her and not get angry....

Good for you for taking steps.  Can you start to look for sitters so you can also go out/have time to yourself? Happy Birthday to your son!

[Andrina]

8 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

I've finally decided to seek legal advice. She worked all day and had a dinner and show with some work colleagues (all women) but she isn't home yet and it's almost 1am. She also packed an overnight bag but I didn't think much about it because she had to bring a change of clothes for the show. Now it's got me thinking if it's actually with Co-workers or if it is a guy. NGL it's probably the latter. I just feel stupid to be backed into the exact situation she wanted. I'm at home with the kids while she is out doing whatever she is doing. It's my son's birthday party tomorrow, I don't know how I can look at her and not get angry....

Put a positive spin on it and think of it as proof that you're compiling with detailed notes of how you should be the primary custodial parent with her paying you custody. Think of yourself as an actor/spy with her being dumb to the fact she's digging herself deeper into a hole.

[MissCanuck]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:48 AM, fantom1399 said:

Now it's got me thinking if it's actually with Co-workers or if it is a guy. NGL it's probably the latter.

Oh, I think it has been the latter for a while now - ever since she started hinting at separation or an open marriage. I would bet any money she has another guy already in her orbit and he's the reason she wanted permission to cheat. 

Keep talking to your attorney. She doesn't need to know the details of that at this time. The marriage is absolutely over but you can come out stronger once all the dust settles. It will take plenty of time, but you will get there. And you will be happier without her. 
 

[lostandhurt]

Fantom,

 It doesn't seem like or feel like a good thing but every time she steps out it is.  You are home free to go through all your finances and make lists, go through the last few years taxes to make notes on incomes, research home values in your area to see how much equity you have and most of all spend quality time with your son.

  I was in a similar situation many years ago and yes I didn't like it and wanted to punish her but instead I stayed calm and planned, made copies, calculated and yes even schemed to make sure I could steer the divorce for the best possible outcome for myself and my son.  That time spent paid off huge!

  You see divorce is a legal negotiation but if you are upset, holding a grudge and want retribution while negotiating you loose sight of the long term goals and end up settling for  short term satisfaction.  Be smart, stay silent and work towards what is best for you and your son.  She will likely go for the short term satisfaction which benefits you greatly as it did me.  Don't battle over stupid stuff that is easily replaced because after all it is just stuff, always play the long game. 

 Start making a list of what you want but keep it hidden from her. 

Please do not give in just to make the hurt go away faster as that will just prolong it when it resurfaces.

Lost

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

I stayed calm and planned, made copies, calculated and yes even schemed to make sure I could steer the divorce for the best possible outcome for myself and my son.  That time spent paid off huge!

Also -I'm no expert like Lost but maybe also video your possessions etc?  And record with your voice what each is, when purchased etc??

[Coily]

OP, If i were you I would be focusing on what Lost has written, he's been through the wringer.

Keep calm, and use lawfare to your advantage.

[fantom1399]

update: Seems like she's going through with this polyamory lifestyle. Stupid me, I went pain shopping and found clues on who it could be. She just came back from a one night trip where she wanted to just be alone. She definitely wasn't alone. She brought her night gown with her. why would someone bring a night gown on an alone trip? They don't. Her instagram posts are very strategic and selective. This just confirms that I don't deserve this, nobody does, and allow me to move on. She is looking at rental places (thank god) and I just need to have all my ducks in a row for the separation agreement to make this final and she can do whatever she wants.

Thank you everyone for your input. They always say, trust your gut, and I should have like you all said.

[lostandhurt]

It takes time to actually accept that the person you gave your heart to is really the person in front of you cheating.  I have been through it but when I was where you are I was just like you in denial looking for a way to fix it.  It looks like you are past that which is good so stay the course on getting everything you think of written down.  Make notes and keep it with you always so you can revisit it often and add to it.  Right now your head is swirling with emotions, fear of the unknown and betrayal so just accept that you might not be thinking as clearly as you would otherwise.

  She is cheating and the marriage is over so do yourself a favor and stop looking for clues to validate what you already know.  It will just hurt you more with zero gain.

 Have you spoken to anyone legally yet?  You might want to look into mediation instead of adversarial court battles.  If mediation does not work you can always get a lawyer and go that route.  Mediation can work if both parties are reasonable and the mediator make sure all the bases are covered and it is legal before it is filed with the court for approval.

 Keep posting

 Lost

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

Seems like she's going through with this polyamory lifestyle

No she's not.  She is just plain ole cheating.  Cheating is not a lifestyle.  Married people cannot date and married people cannot have sex outside the marriage unless both in the married couple privately agree.  Please don't elevate her behavior to some sort of "lifestyle" let alone with some fancy trendy label.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

. She is looking at rental places  and I just need to have all my ducks in a row for the separation agreement to make this final and she can do whatever she wants.

"Looking for rental places" is meaningless.  Please stop believing a word she says.

You still need legal advice. Especially you need to get the marriage dissolved and the assets divided. Please try to work on the denial that she isn't cheating. 

Please understand that since she's the higher earner a good attorney can force her to pay your legal fees. It seems you're tiptoeing around because of costs?

Please also keep in mind it's better to discontinue discussing everything with her and it's also better to let her carry on ignorantly while you file first as the plaintiff. 

[reinventmyself]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:22 PM, Andrina said:

You might be eligible for alimony and she probably knows she's the one who will be having to pay you custody payments.

The other poster was correct in that you should not leave the family home.

All good advice and I am very sorry you having to go through this.

Another vote for legal advice.  The laws vary by state.  CA being No Fault, so all the gymnastics about who stays/who goes is pointless.

I was advised to seek counsel.  Best advice ever.  Though it took me almost a year from that day to file.  I was able to make decisions based on facts and not fear.  Information is power. 

 

[catfeeder]

16 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

…better to let her carry on ignorantly while you file first as the plaintiff. 

The ignorant part I agree with, but the reason it’s important to get legal advice to learn legal options in your location, along with all the best steps to take for each option is that those vary depending on your location. For instance, filing first is not always the best option. Why do the heavy lifting for her? In some places that’s disadvantageous, while in others it’s a good move.

Arm yourself with actual information rather than operating on emotions alone, or worse, opinions from anyone who has never divorced in your exact location and circumstances.

Head high, you can do this.