Wife wants separation for independence

[indea08]

5 hours ago, fantom1399 said:

Thank you for your kind words. I mentioned marriage counseling to her the other morning and if she had any interest in going and she said that she wasn't up for that right now because she still needs space. It's only been a week so I get that but I will not get out of the house. I've been taking my son everywhere before we separated so it'll be no different now when she stays somewhere else. Again, I don't want to think that this is all about sex. I think she is just looking for someone in their masculinity and comfortable taking charge of situations. Unfortunately because I took care of everything in the house, I've taken on the more feminine energy role, which I think is what drove her away. Obviously there are a lot other things going on for her to make this decision but our communication wasn't the greatest. She would internalize everything and never tell me what is going on. I feel like I didn't create a safe enough space for her to share and that's what's killing me inside. I did everything for her physically but not emotionally. I go through the highs and lows and right now, I'm way down in the dumps. I try to psych myself up and self-talk, let myself know that I cannot change what I don't have control over, that I'm should be valued and respected in my partner but that nagging voice will sometimes creep in and just take over.

I think this right here is a good place to be. Your first post, very first sentence, you say your wife just asked you about this a couple days ago, so talking about one of you being outside of the home and talking about separation and lawyers is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Slow down a minute here…

It’s VERY common for people to get restless around the 7 year mark. I say this as someone who’s been married for 7 years and 2 months. I have felt this, I’ve had similar thoughts, and I understand. I was hesitant to say anything to my husband, or anyone really, because I didn’t fully understand my feelings so how could I make someone else understand? But your wife, she made the decision to talk to you about it. Maybe she’s sure this is what she wants, or maybe she thinks this is the solution to how she feels, which is discontent, but perhaps there are other solutions she hasn’t considered.

I think talking to you was a good start. How did that conversation go? Did you listen to her thoughts? Understand how she was feeling? It’s easy to make assumptions, such as her actually saying “how would you feel about an open marriage?” but you’re hearing “I want to have sex with someone else, I don’t want to have sex with you.” Did you create a safe space for an open conversation? Often times, I start to tell my husband what‘s bothering me, and in answering his questions, I learn that my issue was merely a symptom of something else. But it’s in the conversation that I find my true feelings.

Is it possible for you and your wife to take a few steps back here, and have a real and honest discussion about your marriage? Your feelings are valid, but feelings are fleeting and this is a huge decision. If you can find a way to be curious, I think you both might learn a lot about yourselves and each other.

[fantom1399]

15 hours ago, indea08 said:

I think this right here is a good place to be. Your first post, very first sentence, you say your wife just asked you about this a couple days ago, so talking about one of you being outside of the home and talking about separation and lawyers is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Slow down a minute here…

It’s VERY common for people to get restless around the 7 year mark. I say this as someone who’s been married for 7 years and 2 months. I have felt this, I’ve had similar thoughts, and I understand. I was hesitant to say anything to my husband, or anyone really, because I didn’t fully understand my feelings so how could I make someone else understand? But your wife, she made the decision to talk to you about it. Maybe she’s sure this is what she wants, or maybe she thinks this is the solution to how she feels, which is discontent, but perhaps there are other solutions she hasn’t considered.

I think talking to you was a good start. How did that conversation go? Did you listen to her thoughts? Understand how she was feeling? It’s easy to make assumptions, such as her actually saying “how would you feel about an open marriage?” but you’re hearing “I want to have sex with someone else, I don’t want to have sex with you.” Did you create a safe space for an open conversation? Often times, I start to tell my husband what‘s bothering me, and in answering his questions, I learn that my issue was merely a symptom of something else. But it’s in the conversation that I find my true feelings.

Is it possible for you and your wife to take a few steps back here, and have a real and honest discussion about your marriage? Your feelings are valid, but feelings are fleeting and this is a huge decision. If you can find a way to be curious, I think you both might learn a lot about yourselves and each other.

Our conversations, like my emotions, are up and down. I try hard to stay calm and try to convey myself in ways that is gentle yet firm but sometimes my emotions get the best of me and I say things that come out wrong. I asked her that I don't want confrontation every time we talk about what the logistics will be for this separation because then nothing gets resolved. She mentions that sometimes when I say things, it comes out cold. I didn't know how to respond to this because I am trying to speak my truth in a respectful way.  Long story short, we keeps saying she doesn't want to make things permanent and hopes that we can function as a family, however that may look. I am a guy who pours his heart and soul into everything I do. I wear my heart on my sleeve and I realize that it will get hurt more often than not but that is who I am and who I need to be ok with. 

[arjumand]

I don’t want it to be permanent means “I need a backup plan.” Function as a family means “I don’t want the responsibility of taking care of my kids.” 
She is completely only thinking about herself. You are off the table except for what you can do for her. 
get a lawyer and a therapist and look after yourself. You deserve much better. 

[boltnrun]

What she seems to want is to stay legally married but run around with other men, stay away for days at a time while she shacks up with these other men and have you available for convenient and free childcare. Plus I'm sure your income to pay household expenses is welcome to her as well. Win-win for her, not so much for you.

Are you able to look at her with love and respect after she gets back from a sex bender? How do you think the kids will react to having Mom go away and come back whenever she feels like it?

Sorry to be so graphic but I don't see any benefit to you to put up with this.  

[indea08]

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What she seems to want is to stay legally married but run around with other men, stay away for days at a time while she shacks up with these other men and have you available for convenient and free childcare. Plus I'm sure your income to pay household expenses is welcome to her as well. Win-win for her, not so much for you.

Are you able to look at her with love and respect after she gets back from a sex bender? How do you think the kids will react to having Mom go away and come back whenever she feels like it?

Sorry to be so graphic but I don't see any benefit to you to put up with this.  

I don’t think this is necessarily accurate, especially after the OP’s most recent comment. Communication from the OP feels cold to his wife. She’s not having her emotional needs met, in this particular instance but also likely in many previous instances, which has led to her current discontentment. What is she to do when she doesn’t get what she needs from her marriage, but loves and doesn’t want to destroy her family? To her, this issue is heavy enough that she needed to talk about it, so in an effort to feel out what his response might be, she opened with, “how would you feel about an open marriage?”
 

To me, thinking as a husband, that is an excellent opportunity to be curious and learn about where my partner’s at emotionally. Clearly something’s amiss between you, but that’s inevitable at some point in every marriage. No one communicates perfectly, there will always be miscommunications or unintentional offense. Not to mention, we are all different people, growing at different rates, with different thoughts and feelings. Two people may share the same experience and yet feel completely different about it. Communication is key. But until you’ve made it a habit and become comfortable with it, starting these conversations is terrifying. You’re afraid of saying the wrong thing, you’re afraid of being misunderstood, you’re worried about their reaction. Did she do great at her communication? No, but she took the first step and started a conversation. OP, did you do great at your communication? No, you didn’t seek to understand her feelings, you reacted with your own feelings and didn’t validate hers. But, you are here, looking for ways to move forward. I don’t think an open marriage is really what she wants. I think that’s what she thinks is the only solution to her feelings, because she has not gotten the validation and connection she needs from you. If you can give her those things, I think she’ll realize it is possible to find what she’s looking for with you.

Go back to the conversation with her. It will be hard, it will feel uncomfortable and you’ll feel vulnerable. But she chose to spend her life with you so 1. It is her job to communicate with you what she needs and 2. It’s your job to try to give her what she needs without compromising your own happiness. The opposite of this also applies. You have a duty to communicate what you need, and she’s responsible for filling your cup in return. Be curious and find out what it is she needs so you know what you need to give, and consider what it is you need from her so you can communicate that to her. This is the duty of marriage. This is why marriage is not to be taken lightly. It is hard. 

I wish you the best, OP, no matter what happens.

[Batya33]

I agree totally except when partner proposes having intercourse with other men and leaving the home for days at a time to do so particularly when she has two kids including a young child. Partners should be able to share feeling discontented or sad or icky or ignored. She wanted to share her plan to share her private parts with other men and conveniently call it an open marriage. 

[boltnrun]

I would say proposing to have sex with other men is the exact opposite of wanting to save a marriage. 

[indea08]

If you guys go back and re read only the OP’s posts, it doesn’t sound like the issue is just sex, or even mainly sex. That is simply what many posters have focused on and expressed outrage over. 

[boltnrun]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:28 PM, fantom1399 said:

she wants to be able to go and find her independence and possible different sex partners. She feels like sex is just an action and not necessarily about love.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 11/26/2023 at 6:28 PM, fantom1399 said:

 she feels like something is missing and that she wants to be able to go and find her independence and possible different sex partners. 

Please consult an attorney for information support and advice. You have a child and joint assets involved. Do not abandon the house. If she wants to sleep elsewhere,  move out, sell the house, fine. 

Please try not to get emotional and have ad hoc random talks here and there. Do not under any circumstances follow her advice or suggestions.

What she "feels" is irrelevant. She's cheating. This has nothing to do with "masculine and feminine energy". Please don't blame yourself or go down these YouTube rabbit holes.

Please take care of yourself and your child only. Please seek individual counselling for information ongoing support and advice privately and confidentiality.  Start to get neutral objective professional advice.v

She is setting things up for divorce and buying time. Please don't be blindsided. 

[indea08]

29 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

 

IMO, this is the result of not understanding or talking through her feelings, not receiving validation, and not having good communication habits. It’s an attempt at immediate gratification. Open communication that allows you to discuss your feelings without fear of reaction or judgement is the remedy for women to stave off the occasional wandering eye and replenish their love.

[redswim30]

30 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please consult an attorney for information support and advice. You have a child and joint assets involved. Do not abandon the house. If she wants to sleep elsewhere,  move out, sell the house, fine. 

Please try not to get emotional and have ad hoc random talks here and there. Do not under any circumstances follow her advice or suggestions.

What she "feels" is irrelevant. She's cheating. This has nothing to do with "masculine and feminine energy". Please don't blame yourself or go down these YouTube rabbit holes.

Please take care of yourself and your child only. Please seek individual counselling for information ongoing support and advice privately and confidentiality.  Start to get neutral objective professional advice.v

She is setting things up for divorce and buying time. Please don't be blindsided. 

OP, please re-read this over and over again. 

Do not blame yourself.

Protect yourself and your child.  Consult an attorney now. 

[fantom1399]

Update: she talked to her brother and apparently he is in a polyamory relationship (not married, doesn't have kids) and so he provided her with information which kind of made her mind dead set on this kind of life style. She asked me if I would be open to that. I had to get clarification on what a polyamory relationship would look like to her. She mentioned that there would be 1 day a week where we can plan her day out and do whatever she wants, including dating someone else. I asked about sleeping with someone and overnight stays, and she said yes, that is an option. That answer crushed me. She said that we would designate a couple of days a week to go on dates with one another to and we would still do family things together however she or I would be free to do whatever we want on the 1 day we choose. I keep thinking about all these scenarios and can't help but think that the situation I am in now (living under the same house, co-parenting, finances are somewhat still together, freedom of doing what she wants) is sort of the open marriage she was requesting. I feel like I'm being forced into the lifestyle that she wants and I don't. If I'm already living in this relationship without the intimacy, then what the hell am I here for? She would just be a friend and we would be roommates to stay for the kids and I can't just do that. I don't believe in polyamory and I can't change my beliefs and values for someone who disrespects me like this. I plan on filing for a legal separation because I would rather value myself and work on myself than to go along with her plans and be a chump. I have a lot of work to do in self reflection but I know my worth and this is not worth it.

Thanks for everyone's input on this situation. I know Polyamory can work with certain couples but I think in my situation, the honest and open communication was never there so I don't think this would work out in the end so why put off the inevitable. 

[Wiseman2]

36 minutes ago, fantom1399 said:

. I plan on filing for a legal separation because I would rather value myself and work on myself than to go along with her plans and be a chump. I have a lot of work to do in self reflection but I know my worth and this is not worth it.

Agree. She's just spinning all these cool-sounding "lifestyles" in order to cheat.  Excellent that you're consulting an attorney for advice support and information on how to extricate yourself from this nightmare.

[Capricorn3]

55 minutes ago, fantom1399 said:

I had to get clarification on what a polyamory relationship would look like to her. She mentioned that there would be 1 day a week where we can plan her day out and do whatever she wants, including dating someone else. I asked about sleeping with someone and overnight stays, and she said yes, that is an option. That answer crushed me.

Seriously, I'd tell her to pack her bags and not come back. Ever. She definitely wants her cake and eat it too.  I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Focus on your child and see an attorney.  Good luck.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

Seriously, I'd tell her to pack her bags and not come back. Ever. She definitely wants her cake and eat it too.  I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Focus on your child and see an attorney.  Good luck.

Agree.  This is not your thing and never will be and IMHO her approach is kind of bizarre- these other sex partners are going to follow along with her schedule or those are the evenings she'll be hunting around for a bed partner? Cool that it works for her unmarried brother (and he likely has no kids right?).  Is she going to waltz in to kiss her child goodnight smelling of someone else? 

You're not being forced -say no for your and your kids' sake.  The kids will know something is up and that you are not a fan of the something even if  you fake it.

[fantom1399]

At this point, all my attention has moved to my son. I can't control her when she does go out and find whatever or whoever she wants to, as long as it doesn't affect my son. She told me that she if we were to separate, it would be a while before she actually starts dating so to me, I take that as she's completely done with me which I am fine with. I just don't have the energy to put into a one sided marriage.

[boltnrun]

I'm sorry, but you're right. This marriage is over. Her asking to use you for free childcare while she goes out searching for men to sleep with is awfully presumptuous. 

I agree with consulting an attorney and focusing on what is best for your child and for you. 

[Sam1986]

I don't understand why a man would even accept a proposal like this in general.
If we're just talking pure sex with strangers, your average woman can probably get that a lot easier than the average man, so I don't really see the upsides of that for the man unless he already has someone sized up and ready to go.

[bluecastle]

Sorry about all this. 

For some perspective in this very hard time, I would go back to your posts on this site from seven years ago, before you two were married. It seems that she was bringing up a desire for an open relationship then, and while I won't presume to know how that was resolved at the time, it feels safe to say that this value gap between you two was never quite bridged so much as dodged. 

Great that you're consulting with an attorney, and putting your son first. Lean into all that. The peace, comfort, and connection you so crave is real. Sadly, it seems clear that the first step to finding it is accepting that it is not in her, or in your relationship, to find. 

[fantom1399]

14 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

Sorry about all this. 

For some perspective in this very hard time, I would go back to your posts on this site from seven years ago, before you two were married. It seems that she was bringing up a desire for an open relationship then, and while I won't presume to know how that was resolved at the time, it feels safe to say that this value gap between you two was never quite bridged so much as dodged. 

Great that you're consulting with an attorney, and putting your son first. Lean into all that. The peace, comfort, and connection you so crave is real. Sadly, it seems clear that the first step to finding it is accepting that it is not in her, or in your relationship, to find. 

I agree. There were so many signs that I missed from throughout our relationship and this was one of them. I was so blinded by her beauty and my lack of self esteem that I didn't want to see the red flags. When she first wanted to leave 7 years ago, I did the same thing I am doing now. I started to work on myself and tried to live my life while she went to go see if the grass was greener. My problem was that I was working on myself to get her back, not to instill the changes for a better me. This time it's a little more involved but it's the exact same situation. That is why I feel back for my son. I put him in this situation that I could have prevented but then again I wouldn't have him in my life. That's the one good thing that came out of this relationship. I don't regret it because it's given me so much and has taught me a lot of lessons. I just wish it wasn't this hard to move on. 

[lostandhurt]

fantom,

You are doing great under these circumstances and no matter what anyone says this is not your fault. If someone feels their emotional needs are not being met the solution is not to ask for permission to go out and bang someone else. 

  It appears she is not a monogamous type of person and neither is her brother.  It takes time to let go of the love you have for them and see things with perfect clarity so give yourself a break and take one day at a time.

 You will waver on your decision as it is not an easy thing to do but I think you can see now there is no other option left.  From this point on she is no longer your concern so distance yourself from her as much as possible physically and emotionally.  Getting started on the divorce is the hardest part because when you do it becomes real and then acceptance that the marriage is really over is hard to swallow.  Once you get the ball rolling it will get easier as you will start to feel the weight of all this becoming lighter and lighter. 

  Do you have any divorced friends you can talk to about the process they went through?  The unknown can be scary but you can totally handle it one step at a time.

 Keep posting

 Lost

[fantom1399]

24 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

fantom,

You are doing great under these circumstances and no matter what anyone says this is not your fault. If someone feels their emotional needs are not being met the solution is not to ask for permission to go out and bang someone else. 

  It appears she is not a monogamous type of person and neither is her brother.  It takes time to let go of the love you have for them and see things with perfect clarity so give yourself a break and take one day at a time.

 You will waver on your decision as it is not an easy thing to do but I think you can see now there is no other option left.  From this point on she is no longer your concern so distance yourself from her as much as possible physically and emotionally.  Getting started on the divorce is the hardest part because when you do it becomes real and then acceptance that the marriage is really over is hard to swallow.  Once you get the ball rolling it will get easier as you will start to feel the weight of all this becoming lighter and lighter. 

  Do you have any divorced friends you can talk to about the process they went through?  The unknown can be scary but you can totally handle it one step at a time.

 Keep posting

 Lost

I do. I was just talking to my buddy about my situation because he just went through it a couple of years ago. We talked about the separation agreement and certain things that he put in it because his separation didn't have to go through mediation. We also talked about how to handle certain situations to ensure it's a smooth separation. We talked about me staying with my parents until we can figure out the sale/buyout of the house but at this point, I can't even have a conversation with my ex because it seems like she's pretty much done with our relationship. I don't care what she does but I will lose it if she starts to bring her issues and lifestyle around my son.

[boltnrun]

Please do not leave the marital home. This can be construed as you acknowledging she is providing acceptable care for the children and that you also are willing to allow her to retain the family home while YOU have to move out permanently.

Sleep in a different room if you need to and avoid her as much as possible, but I cannot recommend strongly enough that you do not move out. Even temporarily. Yes, it will be difficult but this is vital. 

Also, please consult an attorney ASAP. This is also vital. 

[Coily]

Also I would recommend that you retain any texts or other things where she mentions wanting to run off an bang some guy. This isn't for divorce, this is for custody; and you will need every tool possible.

Stay strong, you are doing this so your son can thrive.