living together. disagreement about expenses

[JJJ4]

Background. My girlfriend has two children ages 10 and 15. She has a condo with two bedrooms.she makes about 120,000 per year. She also gets about $2,300 per month in child support and alimony. I make roughly the same amount as her. 120,000. I also have a daughter who is 16 who lives with her mother. I pay no child support because her mother makes far more than me. Girlfriend's mortgage is $750 and her HOA is 600.

I am currently living with her. At first she wanted me to pay $2,100 per month. I obviously said no and she asked for 1500. I said no to that and I'm now paying $1,000 per month. She's upset about this and would like me to pay 1300. I have only been living with her for 2 months. Usually when I come home from work they have already eaten and she makes a big deal about leaving any food for me to eat.

I'll explained to her that I think it would be more than fair if I paid for half of the living expenses, even with her having two children and receiving 2300 in child support.

I don't really get along with my sisters. She even had the nerve to tell me that she understands why my sisters don't like me because I am cheap for not paying for what she wants.

After my divorce it was very hard on me mentally and I am pretty anxious and somewhat depressed often even though I came out on top financially. You would think that someone who cares about you or you thought cared about you would be more understanding.

My ex-wife was incredibly abusive and conniving. Totally ripped me off for years . I feel like my girlfriend is turning out to be similar. I didn't notice this type of behavior early on.

What should I do? I'm actually taking a long walk alone right now because I don't really have anyone to talk about this with.

I gave my girlfriend the $1,000 for rent and after she counted it she just went on a rampage today.

I feel so stupid.

[Coily]

Dang. Sorry you’re going through this.

I hate to say it, but I think this relationship is winding down,  especially as she values your money more than you. The fact that she seems to have little interest in integrating you with her household, outside of your wallet.

Normally paying a fair share of the living costs would be understandable. As it stands she is asking for her mortgage & hoa (1350) and I can’t imagine that she has $650 in utilities. Basically you are left footing the bill so she can take advantage. 
 

The fact she had a “rampage” over this, would screen to leave.

[JJJ4]

The hoa includs gas, water and internet.

The thing is she eats or the times per week. Shops at whole foods three x per week. Shops constantly for clothes.

 

Her kids each have private instrument teachers at 60 per hour each.

The eldest of going to Australia and Japan next summer.

I just think it sucks that I didn't see this earlier.

 

[boltnrun]

1 minute ago, JJJ4 said:

I just think it sucks that I didn't see this earlier

I'm guessing she didn't want you to see this earlier. She saw a meal ticket (so to speak) so she played nice until she could get you emotionally attached. 

My brother 's ex wife put on a nice act too, until he married her. Then she went straight for his paycheck. She bled him dry until he managed to extricate himself. The divorce took longer than the marriage lasted but at least he's free.

I'm sorry, but I strongly recommend you find your own place and move out. It doesn't seem like she's going to let this money thing go. 

[shouldhavelearned]

Try to get out ASAP 

[1a1a]

This is tricky because while you’re paying rent, she’s gaining an asset. I’d face the same dilemma if my partner and I moved into my place. Ideally I’d like to pay for it in the clear myself but with our lives merged together it might not be that simple (and it’s doubtful I could make the full amount alone). 
 

Ideally I’d like to enter into a prenup kind of arrangement where it’s clearly specified if we split some amount of that property relative to the amount of money he contributed over time is his. 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, JJJ4 said:

. I pay no child support because her mother makes far more than me. Girlfriend's mortgage is $750 and her HOA is 600.

I am currently living with her. 

Sorry this is happening.  How long have you been dating? Where did you live before? Can you move back or find a new place?

Unfortunately as your landlord, she can charge whatever she wants for room and board. Her finances are really not your business to negotiate, manage or calculate what's "fair"

. If you feel it's unfair, and after just 2 months living there are already arguing about money, it's time to move out.  Unfortunately you seem to have unfinished business and baggage from your ex.

[Tinydance]

Well I don't really understand much about mortgages and things like that because I never had one. I think what would be fair is if you paid the rent that you would normally pay for a place like that but got some discount because you're actually her partner and not just a tenant. The 15-year-old could get a small side job for some pocket money and maybe to contribute a bit to some groceries or something. I agree with you that you also shouldn't really pay half the bills because her kids are also raising the utility costs. But they're not your kids and she already gets child support and alimony. So she should be using that money which is for her children to cover their part of the bills. 

If she wants to shop at more expensive grocery stores that's up to her but you don't have to financially contribute to that. You can contribute say 1/4 amount to food because there's four of you in the house but she needs to be paying for her own children. They are being financially supported by their father so it's not your responsibility to pay for them.

To be honest it actually sounds like your girlfriend is the one who's greedy and this situation isn't good. I think it's fine to break up with her over this because it's not a small thing. This shows you who she is as a person and you don't like what you're seeing. So why continue a relationship with someone who has no respect or consideration for you? They don't even wait for you to eat or leave you any food but you're supposed to be covering her mortgage expenses and her kids? No thanks.

[Kwothe28]

If her whole mortgage and expanses are 1350 I think you are paying pretty fair with 1000. Because that is more then half and rest she can invest into extra food for you. Trouble is, she doesnt do that. She treats you like a tennant, not like a boyfriend. And thinks you should pay more so she can live more luxurious life with her kids. There is no "you" in there, only "them".

Also, that kind of stuff you usually notice after you start living together. Its hard to notice that when you didnt share expanses if you dont maybe count dinners when you dated. So its no wonder you didnt noticed when you dated but only after sharing the space together. Since you did noticed it now, now is also a time to rethink the relationship. Especially if you feel she is just using you to pay her rent and expanses.

[Batya33]

I would not live with her anymore. What's the purpose of sharing living space? Are their marriage plans? Was it for convenience or to strengthen your emotional commitment? I never lived with anyone and had very serious and marriage-bound LTRs with a number of men (I married at age 42)

I lived with my husband for a few months before our first planned wedding because my lease was up and we had a wedding date.  We rented a place together and I believe we split the rent and figured stuff out with  expenses (no kids) - I don't really remember because it was a nonissue.  When I was a SAHM our first 7 years of marriage he asked me for no $ given my job as the full time parent - but I contributed to half the rent because I wanted to.  We had a joint account and separate as well which we still do 14 years later. 

But we had similar financial values and goals and our whole purpose in living together was because we wanted a life together in marriage (and same would be had we not married but wanted a long term commitment).  When that is true this nickel and diming in your situation rarely happens even with child support/kids -the couple work to resolve it fast to get on with the business of a loving and healthful relationship.  Something smells here IMO.  

[itsallgrand]

I'm sorry. That really sucks! It would feel terrible being excluded and feeling taken advantage of by the person who is supposed to be your team, your soft pillow when things are hard, your person.

Unfortunately there are some people who are just materialistic and greedy who would step over their own to get something they want. Her mask slipped fast and she's not even able to hide it already. 

I'm really sorry you are hurting. I hope in the future you can meet that person who values you for the man you are. 

[JJJ4]

As far as food expenses. She originally wanted me to pay 300 per month because she said she spends 1200 per month on food and that each mouth costs $300 for food because she buys organic only. So my share would be 1/4. I was shocked that she asked me this. I said no.

Then she wanted $300 per month to put into a fund for future trips, eating out and gifts for holidays, etc.

I said no

Prior, I rented a house, but the owner raised the rent $500 per month suddenly.

She wanted me to move in with her. My thought was this would work and we could save for a dp to buy a larger house in the future. Which is very easy to do.

She also talks a lot about my finances and wants me to be "transparent" and share my information with her, which I will not unless we are married.

Little does she know that I'm very financially stable. I just thought she was the one and eventually she would learn. I'd like to get a house with my partner.

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, JJJ4 said:

 we could save for a dp to buy a larger house in the future.  I'd like to get a house with my partner.

Unfortunately you need to move out. There's simply too much conflict already.  

[boltnrun]

21 minutes ago, JJJ4 said:

I just thought she was the one and eventually she would learn.

Each of you expected the other to "change".  That's a bad foundation for a relationship.

I presume you can look into alternative housing.  I strongly recommend you do so asap.

[smackie9]

Quit this relationship. There is too much incompatibility with money.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, JJJ4 said:

She also talks a lot about my finances and wants me to be "transparent" and share my information with her, which I will not unless we are married. Little does she know that I'm very financially stable.

Sadly you're at a stand-off. Neither of you wants to be forthcoming about finances so that's not going to work out.

It seems like the only reason you moved in was because they raised your rent and you want to save for a house.

However the bickering about money isn't a good sign and unfortunately it's never a good idea to be a lover's tenant because technically they can just ask you to leave with notice.

Get an affordable place of your own with a real lease and a real landlord so you have some rights.

 

[JJJ4]

That's why I think it's good to live together before moving to another level. I didn't think I was being unreasonable. That is why I decided to ask others what they thought.

I was going to rent another place, but she came up with the idea of me moving in. Something she had talked about for some time.

I have no issue splitting costs. Either proportionally or some other fair way. There are lots of methods. 

There is more than enough money to live well and save, etc. I was just shocked by her proposed figures.

The bottom line is you really don't know people until it comes to $.

[Cherylyn]

If you can agree regarding monetary household matters,  then don't be in a relationship with her.  Both of you are incompatible.  Co-habitating does not work for both of you.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, JJJ4 said:

That's why I think it's good to live together before moving to another level. I didn't think I was being unreasonable. That is why I decided to ask others what they thought.

I was going to rent another place, but she came up with the idea of me moving in. Something she had talked about for some time.

I have no issue splitting costs. Either proportionally or some other fair way. There are lots of methods. 

There is more than enough money to live well and save, etc. I was just shocked by her proposed figures.

The bottom line is you really don't know people until it comes to $.

I didn’t need to live with my husband to know his financial values and goals. Also I respect that you think living together is a test to see compatibility but I think with the $$ you likely overlooked things and didn’t have the essential discussions about financial goals and values.  

Had I lived with my husband before marriage it would have been a much harder adjustment because within 3 months of marriage we became parents and lived in my 550 square foot rental for the first 6 months of marriage. Had we lived together before I’d likely have had unrealistic expectations about what it would be like.

Also you don’t know what she’s want if you two were married or had a child together as far as what you would contribute financially.  
 

Have you ever had that discussion ? If not why not ? If you’re willing to share living space why not have the difficult but essential discussions about money ? 

[boltnrun]

I think trying to live together was actually quite valuable as now you see what her expectations are of you regarding money.  Yes, a discussion beforehand would have been a better idea but at least you know now before you made a legal commitment to her.

[Capricorn3]

Talk about a thousand red warning flags.  You should take heed. I would pack my bags and be out the door so fast you wouldn't see me for dust.

[indea08]

Her approach to the conversation is what puts me off. As you said, there are many ways to go about a household budget, but from what you’ve written, I’m not inferring that she’s done any math at all to get these numbers she’s demanding. 

It’s also hard to say whether $1,000 is appropriate without knowing all of your shared expenses.

Here’s what we do, for your reference (married 7 years):

He pays his bills: auto, cell phone, XM radio, student loans, gas

I pay my bills: auto, cell phone, gas

I make 57% of our total income so I pay 57% of shared bills; he pays 43%: mortgage, electric, gas, water, HOA, groceries, day care, etc.

This way, we each know exactly how much we have to put into our shared account on the 1st of the month, and our remaining money is in our own, separate accounts to do with as we please.

However, as you mentioned, you’re NOT married, therefore I would not assume responsibility for any part of the mortgage. You seem to be very aware of the numbers on most expenses, so you could sit down and do some calculating and try to guide the conversation in a positive direction that’s based on actual expenses. Her reaction to the conversation will be very telling. Fighting over money is very taxing on not just the relationship, but on ourselves as well. 

I’m sorry you’re having to figure this out, but I’m also glad you’re working through it prior to getting married.

[JJJ4]

Her compromise is now 1300. I have broken down the costs and presented the costs to her, but she is set on this figure without really explaining her rationale behind it.

 

 

[Coily]

Just running the raw numbers again. The mentioned expenses for the house hold $2550, so throw in 15% for other peripherals (phone, insurance, that sort of thing. So her on average expenses are $3000 (for simplicity of what we know). After taxes of say 20%, that leaves $5000 in her budget.

She was wanting you to pay for her living expenses so she can do what ever she wants with her money, while not having you on the mortgage, or any of the benefits and protections.  This to me is a bad deal no matter how you look at it. Unless you can pin her down with a legal agreement as land lord an tenant (which isn't some mercurial thing), I would run from this relationship.

 

[boltnrun]

5 minutes ago, JJJ4 said:

Her compromise is now 1300. I have broken down the costs and presented the costs to her, but she is set on this figure without really explaining her rationale behind it.

 

 

If this is not OK with you, you can certainly decide to obtain your own housing. 

I wonder if she realizes if you move out she will get exactly $0.