Says he is in debt

[Superstickyone]

I went on 4 dates with a man where we share many common interests and there is chemistry.

He has a daughter which is fine but said he was fleeced in the divorce settlement.  His wife was a shopaholic and racked up close to $50,000 in debt.  Says he's stuck with paying it and his daughter wants to go to a private school instead of public.  She's quite demanding to him but nice to me so far.

Should I pursue anything further with this man?  He is a stock broker witha high paying job.

 

 

 

 

[Kwothe28]

Are you dating him or his money?

I think its "too much information" to discuss debt in a first few dates. Its just not something that should come up as a topic. He was OK with having probably "gold digger" wife that got him stuck with some debt. I think you should pay more attention to that then on "debt" part as it shows character. Debt, his wife beeding him out in a divorce or daughter private school could be something impactful for later if you mean to marry that guy. But I really dont see how it matters in a dating stage. That is why I said its just "too much information" from him. 

[Kbtoys]

Not sure how the topic was brought up, but wish everyone was more authentic and honest with their intentions.  He might want to give you the whole picture of his situation.  It is a good sign to me as a man that he is involved with his daughter’s life.  The only part would be if he would prioritize her over you.  As a father my kids are my first priority which could be challenging in relationships.  

Another thought is that he could just be putting it out there that he isn’t interested in being in a relationship with someone that can’t control their spending and possibly a shopaholic.  Doesn’t want to repeat the past failed relationship issues.

[DarkCh0c0]

5 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

Says he's stuck with paying it and his daughter wants to go to a private school instead of public

He might have been venting or just being honest with you while giving you the whole picture. I think time will tell you about his financial management skills if that's your concern. I would tread carefully in that aspect.

A question that comes to me: does the ex-wife still have any access to his money?

[Seraphim]

I am not sure why he is having his daughter meet someone he dated 4 times. It doesn’t show good judgment. That doesn’t say anything about you. It says something about his poor parenting . 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I am not sure why he is having his daughter meet someone he dated 4 times. It doesn’t show good judgment. That doesn’t say anything about you. It says something about his poor parenting . 

Yes!! Thank you as that was a huge red flag to me. Kids don't "get" dating -they get attached.  

You're hearing one side of it -perhaps his wife is not a cliched "shopaholic" -perhaps there was some agreement that he was going to pay for her shopping trips, etc you don't know you weren't married to him.  

You also don't know why his daughter wants to go to a private school. Perhaps she has learning differences, was bullied at public school or on the school bus, wants to better her chances at her later education, likes the programs at this school or the foreign languages offered etc.  He may not even know that as he is not there.  She's been through the breakup of her family -give her a break maybe (not that you should know her in any way but just indirectly- give her a break).

And there are private school scholarships and grants -so he's doing well enough it seems such that he doesn't qualify for a loan. Maybe the other grandparents are helping to pay for it. You do not know. You should not know.

When I was dating I strongly preferred not to date men who had children.  I dated one twice, another for 3 months (baby was born while we were dating).  The one I only dated twice was such a nice person except he said that he'd want a girlfriend willing to sleep over his apartment (meaning if we got serious) even when he had his weekend visitation with the kids.  I knew I could not do that.  I decided to bow out early so as not to waste his time. 

Consider whether you are a person who wants to be in this situation.  Many are fine with it -but already you are wondering and painting a picture of a shopaholic ex wife and a spoiled child.  

[waffle]

9 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

Should I pursue anything further with this man?  He is a stock broker with a high paying job.

 

I'd definitely pass.

What he's telling you is that if things ever turn serious with him, you're going to be expected to help support him financially while his money goes to his ex (who is often the woman he really loves) and his daughter . . . and then on top of that--when he is using you for a wallet--he prioritizes them over you as is very likely to happen, that's a double-whammy.

Also, every divorced person in the history of the world has blamed debt on the ex and/or claimed they were "fleeced" in the divorce.  You will only be fleeced if you allow it--but yes, many allow it, so that should tell you something.  The reality is you have no idea if the credit card debt is really the fault of the xW.  Usually it's some of both.

[Andrina]

I'm assuming he's in his forties since he has a child about to enter college. Are you the same age or a lot younger?

What is your ideal for being in a relationship? If it's that you're both financially able to travel, along with mini get-a-ways, then that might be something he shouldn't or can't be engaging in since he's already in great debt. 

And if you continued dating and eventually got serious, wanting to purchase a home together, would his part of the contribution to a shared home be a lot less than you would consider fair? Would you not be able to afford your dream home?

You're not in love yet, so consider how an ideal situation looks for you and if it will be negatively impacted by his circumstances. It's fine to bail, because why settle for a mere stranger. Which gets to my next point which other people have addressed. No child should be introduced until it's a good bet the relationship is serious and secure, which would be no less than six months in, beyond the honeymoon period. Even if a guy is okay with this, in the future, don't agree to that. Kids don't need adults parading into their lives and then making a quick exit, which is a good possibility as many new relationships fail more than succeed in the dating world.

[Cherylyn]

NO.  ☹️

[smackie9]

If he's a stockbroker with a high paying job, 50K is a spit in a bucket and shouldn't be an issue. I smell lies. I think he's in more trouble than he's leading on. If it doesn't feel right then it's not. No don't pursue anything.

[Batya33]

Perhaps his high salary is mostly commission-based.

[Tinydance]

Did he explain why it's him that has to pay off the $50, 000 debt and not his ex wife? Like, now that he's divorced why didn't he use lawyers in the divorce and leave her with the debt she racked up? I would probably be more so worried why he's actually allowing himself to be walked over like this and paying off her debts when she's actually not his wife anymore. Or I suppose she used his credit cards so maybe it looks like he's actually the one with the debts?

I'm not sure if whether him having a high paying stockbroker job means he will be able to pay off the debts fairly easily and then will be fine financially.

At the end of the day though he does have a daughter who you say is demanding of him. That probably won't change because this is who she is and their dynamic with each other. Having the debt also won't change. So I guess you just need to think about if you're OK with the whole situation because that's his life.

[Superstickyone]

Thanks for all your viewpoints.  He was an unusual open book about his life and loves to talk.  I am not a fan of a man who has kids. However, if they are away at college, living with mom, etc I'm more willing to look at the guy. As for his debt and why he mentioned it to me, sounds like he might be able to manage it on his salary. He does live a nice lifestyle but I'm more interested in the person, not his possessions.  I havent asked him more detailed on the divorce terms.  This whole thing sounds too messy, complicated and he's telling me too much too soon   I don't feel comfortable and I have too many questions.

 

 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

Thanks for all your viewpoints.  He was an unusual open book about his life and loves to talk.  I am not a fan of a man who has kids. However, if they are away at college, living with mom, etc I'm more willing to look at the guy. As for his debt and why he mentioned it to me, sounds like he might be able to manage it on his salary. He does live a nice lifestyle but I'm more interested in the person, not his possessions.  I havent asked him more detailed on the divorce terms.  This whole thing sounds too messy, complicated and he's telling me too much too soon   I don't feel comfortable and I have too many questions.

 

 

Would you be ok if his children came to live with the both of you temporarily or on and off as adults? Or is it just a father of minor children you are not a fan of? Do you think he overshares in general? Does he also overshare --- gossip -- a lot?

[Kwothe28]

5 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

 I don't feel comfortable and I have too many questions.

And again, that is because he is "oversharing". First few date are suppose to be fun and for some positive properties to come through. Finding out in a first few dates how his ex wife is shopaholic that left him with debt, is not fun and doesnt make you think positive of him. While in reality it really doesnt matter if he manages his finances or in the future you share that finances. It gives maybe the wrong impression.

On the other hand it could be a character flow. People that "overshare" stuff like ex wife bad character, wouldnt hesitate to do the same thing about you tomorrow. To their friends, colleagues etc. So you should at least be careful about that.

[tattoobunnie]

He told you that right away, so he can get you to not feel weird about splitting the bill, or do treat you / treat me way, and to not expect expensive gifts.  When they tell you how the ex-wife messed them up, it's their way of saying they will never let you do that, and will treat you completely opposite of the wife which includes getting married.

[Andrina]

5 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

He told you that right away, so he can get you to not feel weird about splitting the bill, or do treat you / treat me way, and to not expect expensive gifts.  When they tell you how the ex-wife messed them up, it's their way of saying they will never let you do that, and will treat you completely opposite of the wife which includes getting married.

Yes, it does sound like a chess game where he's positioning all his pieces and ready to outmaneuver you. And if his daughter is very demanding of him now, expect more pushback from her if you did remain dating and you become more important in his life. I'd exit now before you get attached.

[Superstickyone]

18 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

And again, that is because he is "oversharing". First few date are suppose to be fun and for some positive properties to come through. Finding out in a first few dates how his ex wife is shopaholic that left him with debt, is not fun and doesnt make you think positive of him. While in reality it really doesnt matter if he manages his finances or in the future you share that finances. It gives maybe the wrong impression.

On the other hand it could be a character flow. People that "overshare" stuff like ex wife bad character, wouldnt hesitate to do the same thing about you tomorrow. To their friends, colleagues etc. So you should at least be careful about that.

 

[Superstickyone]

I'm not keen on living with a man who has kids.  I feel it would be too stressful and the relationship with the man would suffer.  Visiting them sometimes while they live elsewhere is OK.  As long as there is no drama going on.

He doesn't overshare or gossip about others, except himself, ex and daughter.  I got frustrated 😠 when he spent nearly an hour one night complaining how his wife fleeced him in the divorce.  It's tiring listening to that crap.  I'm looking for a generally positive person.

I don't feel good about dating him now.  While there may be chemistry and shared mutual interests, I told him I think we should only be friends hereinafter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

2 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

he spent nearly an hour one night  how his wife fleeced him in the divorce. 

Wow, major red flags. And, he definitely sounds like he's not over his ex.

Good riddance.

[Blue_Skirt]

I think this man actually did you a great favor to be so open about his personal life, even though it is not classy to talk about his ex-wife for so long this early on. But now that you know, you don’t have to invest anymore time in him. Typically you find these things out way too late.

3 hours ago, Superstickyone said:

I'm not keen on living with a man who has kids.  I feel it would be too stressful and the relationship with the man would suffer.  Visiting them sometimes while they live elsewhere is OK.  As long as there is no drama going on.

Then don't date men who has a children / children.

I never wanted to have children myself and I never wanted to have a man who either wanted to have children or already had children. It is just wasting both of your valuable time.

[mylolita]

Only 50k? Those are rookie numbers, should’a bumped them up 🥲

 

I joke!!!

 

I think it was either a strange kind of reverse brag, a transparency open thing, a lie, a warning to you (don’t go thinking you an spend all my money like she did!)c a gossip and a moan or just a fact he thought you might need to know.

 

It’s a funny thing to maybe share on a first date, but it might have popped into his mind. People talk and things come out. Could be so many different explanations. 
 

Him bad mouthing the women in his life isn’t a good sign though. You don’t sound so keen, I don’t think most people would be. What’s he going to be saying a year potentially down the road, or maybe about you? You are very new and he is discussing his daughter with you, especially in a negative way? Very unclassy, not the habit of a gentleman.

 

I also agree with Seraphim - I think parents should introduce people to their new partners even a year down the line, I seriously do. Kids need stability and sanity and a carousel of new women after having put them through a painful split of her parents isn’t a good sign either. How many other dates has she met? 

 

Stockbrokers are salesmen. Salesmen tend to have good patter, confidence and can turn an argument round to their favour - a winning persuasion to their character, normally. And a persistence. Just be wary.
 

It sounds like you could do better and be thinking and feeling a lot better things about a potential boyfriend! 
 

x

 

[Jibralta]

On 10/15/2022 at 1:08 AM, Superstickyone said:

Should I pursue anything further with this man?

I wouldn't. He's a man with an agenda, wasting no time to set his stage. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Blue_Skirt said:

I think this man actually did you a great favor to be so open about his personal life, even though it is not classy to talk about his ex-wife for so long this early on. But now that you know, you don’t have to invest anymore time in him. Typically you find these things out way too late.

I think the main favor was his decision to overshare and vent - that's his first impression so it's a huge red flag as to how he behaves when not on his "best" behavior.  I think there is a way to share this stuff early on in an appropriate way without airing the dirty laundry yet being open about availability like "I'm glad we decided to meet and I went through a tough divorce with many challenges.  Without going into details since we just met I want to be honest that I'm not sure I'm ready to do more than date casually for now." Something like that.  No need to hear an hour of oversharing to know if someone is available to date or how available.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

Stockbrokers are salesmen. Salesmen tend to have good patter, confidence and can turn an argument round to their favour - a winning persuasion to their character, normally. And a persistence. Just be wary.

I think each career/profession has bad apples -I've heard such talk to be wary of: doctors, lawyers, politicians, actors, etc. - I wouldn't be anymore wary unless the individual uses his sales skills in a way that is inconsistent with integrity and good character. Many people work on commission or bonuses. I am not in sales and haven't been for many years so no personal bias (neither is my husband!)

  I was in sales for a few years- headhunter - and often involves ethical choices.  My boss and I always chose the ethical way as she did for her 40 years in the business.

I also met in my online dating a guy who was related to a TV celebrity and high up in a well known MLM.  Wealthy person.  That particular MLM was in the news regularly for bad business practices so that plus other reasons made me steer clear.  I also declined to meet a stockbroker I googled because he had had run ins with an agency for disciplinary issues.  

My friend married a guy who supplies insurance to businesses.  Except he didn't reveal he didn't have the proper licenses so after an event that impacted his clients that somehow that affected his clients' ability to get their $.  It wasn't about his salesmanship.  It was about his lack of ethics.  

This person seems to have personality flaws and issues where he's chosen to overshare to and vent to near strangers in an inappropriate way.  She dodged a bullet and made a great choice.