Is this just how it is?

[Scottr080]

To make a long story short, I just got in a huge, question the relationship-level argument with my girlfriend. I feel like I was put in a no-win situation, and I snapped verbally.

We're flying across the country next month for a friend's wedding, and we're sitting together, naturally. Yesterday, she mentioned that she may want to upgrade to a better seat for more money, at the cost of a few extra hundred dollars. I'm the best man in the wedding, and already spending an assload of money on the trip, so I'm not really in the position to spend ~$400 on an upgraded seat. I made this point clear to my girlfriend when we booked the tickets.

Cut to a few hours ago, and I get a text: "Wondering how upset you'd be if I chose to fly business class." To which I responded: "I wouldn't be upset at all. If you really wanted to do it, then you should."

That's how I really felt. When she called a short time later, I told her, it's just a flight. That she may feel it's worth the money, but I don't feel it's worth the cost, especially since I usually sleep on 5-hour flights. When I told her this on the phone, her entire tone changed. Turns out that she was actually upset that I said I was probably going to sleep on the flight, and that this is her first flight in 5 years, and she thought we could do it together.

I snapped at her. I didn't yell. I very sharply, quietly, and nastily said "Hey, listen to me, what do you actually want to do? Sit with me, don't sit with me. Whatever." And then we proceeded to argue for the next 30 minutes. She was completely taken aback and appalled with how I snapped at her. She doesn't have anyone in her life that raises their voice at her, and she felt spoken down to and disrespected.

Turns out, she was hoping that I would somehow just cave in and spend the extra money on the seat, or, to tell her that I actually really wanted her to sit with me in coach instead. I told her that I felt like she was trapping me in a situation where either answer I gave would have been wrong. I already made it clear that I wasn't spending money on the extra seat. I told her that I may be sleeping because I did't want her to worry about how I would feel, because honestly, I'm indifferent. Before long, the entire argument became about how she didn't know if she could be with someone who could just snap and change their tone on her so quickly. That made me actually want to yell at her. How is someone supposed to react when they were literally going out of their way to make the other person feel comfortable and free to do what they want, but then made to feel bad for just trying to let the other person do what they wanted. Eventually, it didn't even matter that I felt completely trapped in a question that was asked solely to elicit a specific answer. All that mattered ultimately was that I snapped at her, and I was somehow supposed to find a way to be upset, but to calmly explain my position. I can't be upset? I can't have a visceral reaction to being told that either of my answers would have made her upset? How on Earth am I the *** for telling her I may just be sleeping on a flight where SHE WANTS TO SIT APART on??

Of course I could have reacted better, I'm not blameless, but how was I supposed to handle it? She basically told me that sometimes women need to be told certain things. Why do I have to get caught up in these ridiculous petty mind games? Does this just come with the territory? She's one of the most mature people I know, and I've been in a number of relationships by now, but when she reverts to these weird cat and mouse emotional games, am I just supposed to roll with them? Am I ever supposed to learn to deal with this? I eventually apologized and made my point of view clear, but she ultimately said that she has to think about what life is going to be like with me after talking to her like that, and that maybe she doesn't even want to go on the trip anymore.

For last bit of context: M31/F35, together for about a year. I genuinely do lover her, and I feel like our relationship is pretty strong and healthy, but maybe it isn't, if me changing my tone and getting upset for a second, makes her rethink the whole relationship. I really want her to just do what she feels like doing, so when that's not a good enough answer, what the *** is?

Sorry for the disorganized and meandering post. I just needed to get it off my chest and out, somewhere.

[LootieTootie]

You both just need to learn how to communicate better.

Instead of saying "I don't feel like it's worth the money" (and snapping at her), how about saying: "I'm sorry. I don't have the funds to upgrade my seat."

This is where she should (1) leave it or (2) offer to upgrade your seat and hers or (3) only upgrades her and sit apart from you.

It might not bother you (now any way) but if she only upgrades her seat and not yours, this person isn't a keeper. Why? She is willing to ditch you for her own self-interests. If she truly wants to share the experience with you and be an awesome girlfriend, she would also upgrade her seat and yours so you both can sleep together on the flight and not next to some random person.

 

 

[adviceplease2]

Shes pulling the old...expecting you to be telepathic.  Its a no win scenario.

Sounds like she isn't told no very often or is manipulative because no one says no to her.

[Jibralta]

It sounds like you have a lot of built up frustration.

[Blue_Skirt]

4 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

"Wondering how upset you'd be if I chose to fly business class."

4 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

Turns out, she was hoping that I would somehow just cave in and spend the extra money on the seat, or, to tell her that I actually really wanted her to sit with me in coach instead.

4 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

She basically told me that sometimes women need to be told certain things.

I think you handled everything well until the moment you snapped and then continued to argue for another 30 minutes. I think it would have been better to end the phone conversation by saying, let’s talk this over quietly later, when we have both calmed down.

I think her comments are manipulative and you are right, whatever you would have said, it would never have been right. You made it clear from the beginning when booking the tickets that you don’t want to upgrade and spend $400, which I feel is more than reasonable. I mean really, $400 extra for a 5 hours flight (and back)? That is a lot of money.

I would re-think this relationship.

[Blue_Skirt]

2 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

Instead of saying "I don't feel like it's worth the money" (and snapping at her), how about saying: "I'm sorry. I don't have the funds to upgrade my seat."

This is where she should (1) leave it or (2) offer to upgrade your seat and hers or (3) only upgrades her and sit apart from you.

Why would he not be allowed to say that he thinks it is not worth the money?

I think money and how it is spent, does play an important role in a relationship. If I would feel that something is not worth spending the money, and we are not talking $10-$20 here, I would also not accept the offer from my partner to pay for it, because I still would think it is a waste of money.

[MissCanuck]

I think this has nothing to do with the upgraded seat. It's a symptom of a bigger problem.

You both sound very frustrated and resentful of each other. So, what is really going on here? Where is this all truly coming from?

 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

  M31/F35, together for about a year.  I feel like our relationship is pretty strong and healthy, but maybe it isn't.

Do you both know the people getting married? 

Unfortunately if airline seats cause this much of a row, your relationship is not as good as you think.

It seems like she's a manipulative princess. A grown middle aged woman doesn't need a babysitter on a flight.

Your answer was appropriate. If she wants to fly business class,so what, let her.

If this wedding is her people rather than yours, consider not going at all.

Spend some time reflecting if you want to be bullied by her.

[Blue_Skirt]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If this wedding is her people rather than yours, consider not going at all.

He wrote he is the best man in the wedding, so he cannot really skip this one.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Blue_Skirt said:

He wrote he is the best man in the wedding, so he cannot really skip this one.

Ok. Maybe the best course of action is to uninvite her then?

[JoyfulCompany]

Yikes! I can see why it's hard to look past the argument, I got a second-hand frustration reading about it. I can easily say I'm with you on this one but will that help you in the end? I don't think so.

Whether this relationship is worth salvaging or not, that's something only you know.

Let's say overall I see two scenarios with her:
A. Best case, she usually: respects your opinion, can calmly take a 'no', isn't an unnecessarily big spender, is able to listen, is able to reflect on herself.
B. Worst case, she usually: doesn't respect your opinion whenever it doesn't coincide with hers, has to be right at any cost, can't apologise, is high maintenance, isn't willing to listen, has low self-awareness.

Let's talk about A (or things weighing towards A) and let's look at the major relationship problems that peek through the argument:

1. There might be a sensitivity/love language mismatch
I could see how a flight can be something mundane for you and a huge adventure for her (especially given the restrictions we lived in for the past two years because of the pandemic). Thus the huge built-up in her head, followed by a major disappointment.

I don't justify her silent expectations, hand-twisting tactics and 'what women want' BS, not at all. The mature thing is to be able to reflect on those stuff by herself and name them properly, instead of deflecting the whole argument to the part where it escalated.

But clearly emotions took over. I would wonder why it was so severe? Is this the first argument where she's on the "romantic" side and you - on the "practical" side? You tried showing your love and care by prioritizing her comfort, while she longed for "togetherness". In the end she didn't feel loved and you didn't feel appreciated. I'm no expert on love languages but I will assume you would need a lot more explicit communication around it. If you're compatible enough.

Which leads to the second problem:

2. There seems to be some poor communication

A lot of additional information was shared when things escalated. Too little too late and nobody's point got through. We rarely listen when we're affected.
What I think could be improved is to be more curious beforehand. Ask, don't assume. For example, from what you write it seems you were fixed on your own answer from the very beginning, which is fine but... Did you ask her why would she be willing to spend so much money for an upgrade? Did you ask her how she would feel if you two travel separately? Maybe she could've shared her sentiment back then. Maybe you could've exchanged the same words back then but with less frustration and more empathy. Maybe not. But it's worth trying to talk things through in advance.

Also, when a topic starts getting heated, avoid discussing it further over text/phone. Arguing online means no body language input and a lot of emotional assuming.

Btw, I'm also sensitive towards people raising their voice or being spiteful with me (in my case - because I had a lot of that in my childhood). It's something that makes me instantly close off. However, I'm willing to have one more calm conversation later, in which each party has the space to express where they came from in the situation and how they felt, without proving who's right and who's wrong. I hope you two will allow yourselves to have such conversation.

***
With all that said, who knows, it could be scenario B - maybe she just wanted things her way and when she realised she's wrong to demand it, she focused on the snapping, so she stays on top of the argument. I had some negative initial reaction to your claim that she's mature but, hey, life taught me people are work in progress. She can strive to be mature but still have triggers she hasn't figured out yet.

Anyway, I hope she's as mature as you think, you're able to get through this together, learn more about each other and avoid future resentment. Or break up for good. Whichever way, good luck.

[Kwothe28]

Oof

Unfortunately what you are dealing with is classic "Spoiled Girl" situation. Where she percieved yours "I dont care that you took better seats" as "You dont care about me". Because according to her, you should have either

a) upgrade your seats which should prove you are willing to spend more money just to be next to her

b) beg her to stay next to you which would perceive that you care

And you just said "I dont care". Following with "I will sleep on flight". And that not only means that you dont care that means that you will not even entertain her during flight. Because "She hasnt traveled in 5 years" lol

Should you have handle this better? Yes. For example "I do care about us to stay seated together but I would understand if you want to be more comfortable and be alone in first class" would probably do the trick. Engaging in argument with her just made it worst. That at the age of 35 she hasnt have anyone snapping or yelling at her just makes me think that she is probably just spoiled. With shelling more money for better seats and whole argument, it does makes sense. 

If you choose to stay with her, for the future you should choose your words better. However I would wonder if its worth it to "walk on shells" just so other side wouldnt think how you dont care just because you want to sleep on flight. 

 

[Blue_Skirt]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Where she percieved yours "I dont care that you took better seats" as "You dont care about me".

 

And you just said "I dont care". Following with "I will sleep on flight". And that not only means that you dont care that means that you will not even entertain her during flight.

 

He never actually said that he does not care. She may have understood it that way, be he never used those words.

[Kwothe28]

8 minutes ago, Blue_Skirt said:

He never actually said that he does not care. She may have understood it that way, be he never used those words.

It doesnt really matter, that is how her mind works. He didnt fight for his seat to be next to her, ergo, he doesnt care. He then "poured more oil to fire" with "I just want to sleep". 

I have no doubt that he does care for her. However to spoiled persons you need to constantly prove that. Sometimes with gifts, sometimes with fighting to be with them. 

Another example is her reaction at the end. That flight is not about her, its about him being the best man at the wedding. And yet she made it that way and now she doesnt even want to go to keep him company. As I said, spoiled. 

[Blue_Skirt]

3 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

It doesnt really matter, that is how her mind works. He didnt fight for his seat to be next to her, ergo, he doesnt care. He then "poured more oil to fire" with "I just want to sleep". 

I had to go back to his first post and I actually had to read it twice, because when you wrote that he had said he did not care, I thought I missed something. It would have been a difference for me if he had said “I don’t care”. Instead he said "I wouldn't be upset at all. If you really wanted to do it, then you should."

I agree with you though that she is a spoiled woman and that she has perceived his answer as that he does not care.

[Seraphim]

I don’t think this girl is a keeper if she has to “ re think the relationship “ over what I think to be a minor argument. She wanted her way and thought you would cave. You made it very clear at the outset you were not springing more money for a better seat and she felt she could change your mind . It didn’t work in her favour so she created a no win situation. Then got mad at the reaction to the no win situation. 

[Wiseman2]

Or get a first class ticket for yourself on another flight. That way you don't have to deal with her drama at all. ✈️

This is your friends wedding and she's your guest? Either way you'll both land at the same time and place so let her pay $400. extra for free peanuts. 🥜

[Batya33]

18 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I don’t think this girl is a keeper if she has to “ re think the relationship “ over what I think to be a minor argument. She wanted her way and thought you would cave. You made it very clear at the outset you were not springing more money for a better seat and she felt she could change your mind . It didn’t work in her favour so she created a no win situation. Then got mad at the reaction to the no win situation. 

Also in a typical relationship (but what do I know, LOL) she would know already that whether you flew together last week or five years ago, that on long flights her man prefers to sleep for whatever reason (I get it -although I'm not a good sleeper on flights) - and your reason is great this time -you have a "job" to do at the wedding -you need to be on top of your game for the groom.  I'd want that too.  So she knows -why in the world would she think you'd change your mind and fight to stay awake so you could spend this time "together".  She has no phobia or flying anxiety, right? 

I also love the post above about even if she offered to pay for his upgrade it's about the waste of $ part. I agree.  

I agree that as an adult you needed to stop yourself and table the conversation for later after you calmed down.  You have that moment where you can pause, get control, shut your mouth.  Travel is stressful, even planning travel can be stressful.  Also I'm not sure if she's friends with the bride and groom too or if she feels like she's tagging along to support you so you can have a good time, she can do the behind the scenes stuff - make sure you have all you need, look pretty and be charming, etc.  Might have caused her built up frustration.

Is she a person who spends in a way that you consider frivolous or over the top, or is this the first time?

I also agree with Seraphim about how your GF reacted.

Good luck!

[Jibralta]

From the girlfriend's perspective, I would rethink the relationship after he spoke to me nastily. I don't think there's room for that in a relationship. It's fine if people get upset or frustrated. It happens, and it doesn't always make sense. But there's no excuse to be nasty.

[Rose Mosse]

I’d think the indecisiveness of it is quite unnecessary. The seats are already booked. I also lean towards not making a big deal out of a short flight. I’m more used to 18-21 hour flights myself so five hours is a drop in the bucket. 

You both have differences in the way you manage money in general and are in two different worlds. This isn’t really her party. It’s something she’s your sidekick for in a wedding where you’ll be busy most of the time as the best man. Is she also part of the wedding party? 

The way I’d read this is she’s going along on the trip but doesn’t feel quite part of any of this and is looking for a way to make it special and novel for herself. You missed the point of this. It’s not communicated to you and you seem tense about the trip. I think she feels excluded already and may feel disconnected from you. 

Let us know how it goes.

 

 

[boltnrun]

"You should know I wanted you to say this or that" from a woman in her 30s??? That's just ridiculous.

Yes, you lost your temper. I doubt there's a couple in the world who hasn't had one (and likely both) of them lose their temper and raise their voice. It has nothing to do with disrespect. It happens. We're not perfect.

How to resolve this? I would ask to have a calm discussion where no one raises their voice or interrupts. Then say something like "I apologize for raising my voice. That shouldn't have happened. However, this is why I responded the way I did originally". Then explain your initial response. If she attempts to interrupt, stop speaking. Then when she's done interrupting, say "I'd like to continue with what I was saying." Don't address whatever she said during her interruption as those words should not "count". Once you're finished ask for her take on the situation. Give her the same courtesy of listening and not interrupting that you asked for. Then ask what she thinks a reasonable resolution should be, then give her yours.

Hopefully a calm talk can resolve this.

Additionally, you might want to discuss your relationship as a whole. Ask if she truly feels you two are incompatible. If so, no further discussion is required other than calmly ending the relationship.

[DancingFool]

.....If this is the most mature woman you've ever dated.....you might want to consider raising your standards at least above gutter level....

On a more serious note, there seems to be something that attracts you to drama queens, aka high maintenance, manipulative women. You are correct that she cornered you to where no answer was going to work in your favor. Keeping in mind that her demands on your wallet were not justified to begin with and she literally had no right to ask you to pay more for the upgraded seats. A mature woman would have either accepted flying coach OR paid for the both of you to upgrade out of her own pocket if it was that important to her.

You actually offered a reasonable compromise that she can pay for and sit in the better seats by herself, however, you got attacked for that because....princess wanted something else. It's about as immature as it gets and completely absurd. No, OP, most women are not like that. If this is your norm, you are the common denominator and need to fix your picker when it comes to choosing partners.

[SooSad33]

15 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

Of course I could have reacted better, I'm not blameless, but how was I supposed to handle it? She basically told me that sometimes women need to be told certain things. Why do I have to get caught up in these ridiculous petty mind games? Does this just come with the territory? She's one of the most mature people I know, and I've been in a number of relationships by now, but when she reverts to these weird cat and mouse emotional games, am I just supposed to roll with them? Am I ever supposed to learn to deal with this? I eventually apologized and made my point of view clear, but she ultimately said that she has to think about what life is going to be like with me after talking to her like that, and that maybe she doesn't even want to go on the trip anymore.

Ohh, well then move on lady - now.

 

16 hours ago, Scottr080 said:

She was completely taken aback and appalled with how I snapped at her. She doesn't have anyone in her life that raises their voice at her, and she felt spoken down to and disrespected.

No, you did NOT over react at all.

So, this world is all about her?  Ahh, no!

You've been involved for about a year - and you are ready & willing to bring this gal on a 5 hr trip to a friends wedding?  Are you sure?

Hey, if someone wants to put you ( and the relationship) on the line because YOU spoke up to her? Says enough, doesn't it?

Fps, cash in her ticket, and walk away.. go to this thing on your own & enjoy your time away! And have a good sleep 😉 

 

[waffle]

If she suggests you switching seats, then she should pay.  Pretty brazen of her to offer how to spend your money for you lol.

[smackie9]

omg what a spoiled brat she is. It's the way she did it was so manipulative. She pushed your buttons, mad you snap and diverts everything by getting upset with you for getting up set lol. I would have second thoughts about this relationship.