Argument about contraception

[firelily]

Since preventing pregnancy seems to be the main theme of this thread, why not get an IUD or Implant (if it wasn't already mentioned)?

 

They are the most effective form of birth control, lasts for years and there's nothing you have to remember to take or risk forgetting to take like an oral contraceptive.

 

Well I think preventing pregnancy wasn't my intended thread of the topic, it just went off rails. My topic was about advice on relationship dynamics, I wanted to understand that dynamics better and think about whether to decide there are some dealbreakers there or whether to continue seeing this guy but after setting some boundaries, discussing some issues etc.

 

I don't think IUD is a recommended contraception method for women who didn't give birth. It's the first time I hear about implants and I'm not sure if they are accessible in my country, or who is qualified for them. Pills I'm taking is the method we chose with my gynecologist for me, though I need to make adjustments to take it at very regular hours. I've always been thorough with taking pills every day or implementing additional method if I did miss a pill or had some other concerns. I'll be definitely researching other contraception methods once I'm 35 and in a risk group for traditional pills, so thanks for that info about implants. Maybe by that time it will be a more popular thing in my country.

[firelily]

I told my boyfriend I'm having this discussion on this forum, and he's really curious about feedback for him.

 

I'm not sure yet if I'll show the whole thread or not, but do you guys have any additional feedback just for him?

 

--

 

PS. Batya, since I can't write you privately - I'm sorry, I don't think I will respond to your posts anymore, but of course you're welcome to talk with other commenters here in this thread. I used to write a lot of post here about 2 years ago and I remember you particularly from that time, because most of the times, while initially you offered help, you ended up talking in a manner that made me feel bad about myself no matter the subject, always nitpicking on what I said to show that I'm wrong with what I do and that you're above me :( Really no matter the subject - decorating, moving out from home, job search, long distance relationship that I had, I don't remember now all the topics, but you've always used opportunity to present yourself as superior in some ways to me and made me feel I'm immature and should just do what you tell me to do. If it weren't for a long history of that, I would be more emphathetic to your legit point here, but unfortunately pattern is the same. Just before starting this thread - I swear - I thought "I hope Batya isn't still around here, so I won't feel like crap by the end of that day". I'm sorry but this is how I take your advice. I know, whatever I write in response to your posts now, it will make you angrier and more condescending. I'm sorry but I can't use that type of advice - but maybe it will be helpful to some other people reading this thread who consider the topic for themselves, so that's ok for you to participate if you want to.

[Leah33]

Well I think preventing pregnancy wasn't my intended thread of the topic, it just went off rails. My topic was about advice on relationship dynamics, I wanted to understand that dynamics better and think about whether to decide there are some dealbreakers there or whether to continue seeing this guy but after setting some boundaries, discussing some issues etc.

 

I don't think IUD is a recommended contraception method for women who didn't give birth. It's the first time I hear about implants and I'm not sure if they are accessible in my country, or who is qualified for them. Pills I'm taking is the method we chose with my gynecologist for me, though I need to make adjustments to take it at very regular hours. I've always been thorough with taking pills every day or implementing additional method if I did miss a pill or had some other concerns. I'll be definitely researching other contraception methods once I'm 35 and in a risk group for traditional pills, so thanks for that info about implants. Maybe by that time it will be a more popular thing in my country.

 

I did not realize you are in Europe.

 

A quick Google Search seems both IUD/Implants are available in Europe. Most IUD's are approved for use regardless of whether a woman has had kids. Something to discuss with your Gyno for sure!

 

Can't offer much advice on your relationship dynamic though there seems to be a fair amount of expectations involved in what is supposed to be (as you labeled it) "Dating Without Expectations".

 

His main expectation seems to be that you don't get pregnant.

 

If you find this dynamic enjoyable then great!

[ThatwasThen]

I'm dating someone casually,

Then with all that drama and his fear of pregnancy, I'd say its time you stopped dating him casually or any other way.

 

Casual dating is suppose to be fun, drama free and without a freakout. If he's so damned worried about pregnancy and doesn't trust you then it's his time to end the relationship with you as well as you ending it with him.

 

He's severed the emotional bond you had with him which is a good thing because if you're just casual then YOU need to keep your heart off your sleeve which you have not done.

 

Kick him to the curb.

 

P.S. If he's that adamant about not having kids then he should seriously consider a vasectomy then he doesn't have to push blame on his partner(s) to the point of being a browbeater about it.

[firelily]

I did not realize you are in Europe.

 

A quick Google Search seems both IUD/Implants are available in Europe. Most IUD's are approved for use regardless of whether a woman has had kids. Something to discuss with your Gyno for sure!

 

Can't offer much advice on your relationship dynamic though there seems to be a fair amount of expectations involved in what is supposed to be (as you labeled it) "Dating Without Expectations".

 

His main expectation seems to be that you don't get pregnant.

 

If you find this dynamic enjoyable then great!

 

Thanks for info!

 

Good observation lol :) Strangely, I enjoy it for the most part. We seemed to match well with our expectations and lack of expectations in most fields, and try to accomodate to each other's needs, as much as it's possible.

 

I'm afraid if how he handles his fear of pregnancy and anxiety in general will be something I can handle, among other things. I need to sort this out, or maybe me and him can do that together.

[firelily]

Then with all that drama and his fear of pregnancy, I'd say its time you stopped dating him casually or any other way.

 

Casual dating is suppose to be fun, drama free and without a freakout. If he's so damned worried about pregnancy and doesn't trust you then it's his time to end the relationship with you as well as you ending it with him.

 

He's severed the emotional bond you had with him which is a good thing because if you're just casual then YOU need to keep your heart off your sleeve which you have not done.

 

Kick him to the curb.

 

Some good points.

 

I think I actually like that version of casual better, where two people touch deep topics, share their fears and intimate stuff, serious life issues etc., it's more my way - but the untrust and emotionally draining part of that closeness is unnecessary here, I feel that way too.

 

I also feel like that emotional bond was damaged. It bugs me though I can't point to the exact thing or moment that damaged it. Do you have some idea, what could be the particular thing that made me feel hurt? Or how to call what I feel here?

[ThatwasThen]

I think inherently, many (most?) woman want to bear children and when he cemented it, pounded it into you, browbeat you about NOT wanting you to get pregnant, subconsciously, he damaged your attraction to him. That's my armchair analysis of it anyway. :)

 

When you are doing everything you can to keep yourself pregnancy free and he came at you like he did, he showed you who he is and that he really isn't who you imagined him to be.

 

Do you want children eventually, Lily? Does he eventually want them or does he never want kids?

[firelily]

I think inherently, many (most?) woman want to bear children and when he cemented it, pounded it into you, browbeat you about NOT wanting you to get pregnant, subconsciously, he damaged your attraction to him. That's my armchair analysis of it anyway. :)

 

When you are doing everything you can to keep yourself pregnancy free and he came at you like he did, he showed you who he is and that he really isn't who you imagined him to be.

 

Do you want children eventually, Lily? Does he eventually want them or does he never want kids?

 

In this sense I'm definitely in the minority of women :) I've never had a maternal instinct, I'm only open to possibility. It's been only the last years I matured enough to get comfortable with toddlers around. I work in a kindergarden now, I definitely admire children as young people they will become one day, but the idea of being pregnant, giving birth and breastfeeding is as attractive to me as when I was 9 years old ;) It would be awesome if I could just sleep through all of it and get a ready 2 year old baby when I open my eyes. But now I feel these issues could be workoutable if my future partner really wanted kids, I matured enough to want it on my own, or if I was faced with an unexpected situation.

 

Basically, we're not on a totally different pages about this.

 

I think it's more about the lack of trust, or being mean when I did nothing wrong, or attacking me about such an intimate topic. Or, the fact, that I never know how emotionally close I want to get, and it hurts to let him in and then this on the next day.

[Leah33]

Thanks for info!

 

Good observation lol :) Strangely, I enjoy it for the most part. We seemed to match well with our expectations and lack of expectations in most fields, and try to accomodate to each other's needs, as much as it's possible.

 

I'm afraid if how he handles his fear of pregnancy and anxiety in general will be something I can handle, among other things. I need to sort this out, or maybe me and him can do that together.

 

You're welcome.

PS. Thank you google gods!

 

Even more so strange if you find yourself not enjoying it.

[ThatwasThen]

Then there you go, you DO know why the emotional bond has been spoiled.

 

What is it you want with this guy? Do you just want a companion or are you/were you hoping that the casual would turn into more? If you were just looking for a sexual and activity partner without commitment then maybe it's time to find someone a little less uptight. ????

 

Adding: FWIW, I don't blame him for wanting to make sure he's not a father if he doesn't ever want children but dude should seriously consider getting a vasectomy if that's the case.

[Batya33]

I told my boyfriend I'm having this discussion on this forum, and he's really curious about feedback for him.

 

I'm not sure yet if I'll show the whole thread or not, but do you guys have any additional feedback just for him?

 

--

 

PS. Batya, since I can't write you privately - I'm sorry, I don't think I will respond to your posts anymore, but of course you're welcome to talk with other commenters here in this thread. I used to write a lot of post here about 2 years ago and I remember you particularly from that time, because most of the times, while initially you offered help, you ended up talking in a manner that made me feel bad about myself no matter the subject, always nitpicking on what I said to show that I'm wrong with what I do and that you're above me :( Really no matter the subject - decorating, moving out from home, job search, long distance relationship that I had, I don't remember now all the topics, but you've always used opportunity to present yourself as superior in some ways to me and made me feel I'm immature and should just do what you tell me to do. If it weren't for a long history of that, I would be more emphathetic to your legit point here, but unfortunately pattern is the same. Just before starting this thread - I swear - I thought "I hope Batya isn't still around here, so I won't feel like crap by the end of that day". I'm sorry but this is how I take your advice. I know, whatever I write in response to your posts now, it will make you angrier and more condescending. I'm sorry but I can't use that type of advice - but maybe it will be helpful to some other people reading this thread who consider the topic for themselves, so that's ok for you to participate if you want to.

 

So sorry you interpreted what I wrote that way. I don't think I'm superior in any way and in fact I pointed out mistakes I'd made in having sex with someone who didn't want children. What I do think is that the best interests of a child are superior to your desire to have casual sex with someone who would want you to abort when you might not wish to abort. I don't think you should feel like crap. I think you should reevaluate choices that might make you feel like crap and/or make a child feel like crap (like Seraphim shared).

 

You've shared that you feel immature and irresponsible in certain ways -I'm not sure if that's true but if you feel that way perhaps it's because you've pointed it out about yourself. Once again, I know I am not superior and I hoped that sharing the mistake I made having sex with a man who would have wanted me to abort was a 3-month mistake I made -we had sex many times. I shouldn't have agreed to any sex.

 

I also know that from what you have written you and I have very different perspectives on what children deserve at the starting gate - is mine right and yours wrong? I don't think it's a wrong/right thing. It's a difference in values and a difference in goals. You're not sure you ever want a child, you are sure you want casual sex and options to have casual sex without having to spend lots of time on dating apps. You're pretty sure you don't want an abortion, your sex partner is sure he would want you to have an abortion. I agree with the others -who apparently have not made you feel like crap - who've reiterated that having casual sex with a man who feels that way is a bad idea. I think single adults who want to have casual sex and consent to casual sex should go for it even though it wouldn't be right for me. When it comes to another life potentially being created I've written how I feel about that. I felt that way long before I became a mom.

 

I'm sorry if I didn't sugarcoat my input about how I feel about the best interests of a child. You certainly didn't sugarcoat your balancing of your desires for casual sex vs. the pregnancy risks. It came across as kind of cold to me -cold to the consequences that could result (pregnancy that you would choose to keep most likely). That felt kind of icky to me. Sorry again if you took my advice in the way you described it. Since several others have said the same thing I'll leave it to them.

Good luck.

[firelily]

Then there you go, you DO know why the emotional bond has been spoiled.

 

What is it you want with this guy? Do you just want a companion or are you/were you hoping that the casual would turn into more? If you were just looking for a sexual and activity partner without commitment then maybe it's time to find someone a little less uptight. ????

 

Adding: FWIW, I don't blame him for wanting to make sure he's not a father if he doesn't ever want children but dude should seriously consider getting a vasectomy if that's the case.

 

:) I've told him that on Thursday. It would make him much more relaxed with trusting women.

 

I've been greatly benefitting from regular cuddle therapy and a Netflix buddy, it helped me to calm myself down a lot, to ground myself. I like philosophical conversations with him, listening to gothic movies, to anime. Ranting about daily lives and his ongoing warm support, sweet texts every morning and evening, healthy sex, good food and shared jokes. Unfortunately he's not in love with me and I'm not in love with him. We openly wish ourselves to fall in love with someone in the future. Right now he's sharing with me that he's bittersweet sad his last girlfriend just got married, and I don't feel jealousy about it, I find it sweet and feel honoured that he shares it with me.

 

At first we tried being friends at first but it didn't work out either, cause it felt wrong not to be hugging and touching him. I think though if one of us was taken at the time we got to know each other, it would be very possible to never be more than friends.

 

It's one of these in between things. While I admire clarity and boundaries more and more, in between flexibility comes natural for me, so he found a perfect girl for that.

 

It's a bit charming that he's so neurotic, I treat it as his quirks. But in this particular topic, it seems to affect our relationships in a negative manner. Maybe more stuff will show in the future.

[firelily]

So sorry you interpreted what I wrote that way. I don't think I'm superior in any way and in fact I pointed out mistakes I'd made in having sex with someone who didn't want children. What I do think is that the best interests of a child are superior to your desire to have casual sex with someone who would want you to abort when you might not wish to abort. I don't think you should feel like crap. I think you should reevaluate choices that might make you feel like crap and/or make a child feel like crap (like Seraphim shared).

 

You've shared that you feel immature and irresponsible in certain ways -I'm not sure if that's true but if you feel that way perhaps it's because you've pointed it out about yourself. Once again, I know I am not superior and I hoped that sharing the mistake I made having sex with a man who would have wanted me to abort was a 3-month mistake I made -we had sex many times. I shouldn't have agreed to any sex.

 

I also know that from what you have written you and I have very different perspectives on what children deserve at the starting gate - is mine right and yours wrong? I don't think it's a wrong/right thing. It's a difference in values and a difference in goals. You're not sure you ever want a child, you are sure you want casual sex and options to have casual sex without having to spend lots of time on dating apps. You're pretty sure you don't want an abortion, your sex partner is sure he would want you to have an abortion. I agree with the others -who apparently have not made you feel like crap - who've reiterated that having casual sex with a man who feels that way is a bad idea. I think single adults who want to have casual sex and consent to casual sex should go for it even though it wouldn't be right for me. When it comes to another life potentially being created I've written how I feel about that. I felt that way long before I became a mom.

 

I'm sorry if I didn't sugarcoat my input about how I feel about the best interests of a child. You certainly didn't sugarcoat your balancing of your desires for casual sex vs. the pregnancy risks. It came across as kind of cold to me -cold to the consequences that could result (pregnancy that you would choose to keep most likely). That felt kind of icky to me. Sorry again if you took my advice in the way you described it. Since several others have said the same thing I'll leave it to them.

Good luck.

 

Thank you for answering!

 

You're making a good point, and it's good that you advocate the interest of the child :)

 

I think it's mostly the way of speaking - like when you said "oh well, I guess you will have to look further. Life isn't fair sometimes." that made me feel like a child being talked to by a know-it-all adult, rather than someone who wants to be an equal partner in discussion. And partly that particular fierceness in you that make you focus on the part where you differ in views, rather than what you agree on.

 

It's a good thing I've read this perspective on things, since I never known anyone who would ask for example hookups whether they're pro or against abortion. Ultimately it will be my decision to make.

 

Thanks for being understanding and all best to you too.

[Rose Mosse]

Yeah, I realize this now, the worries should be more of my responsibility. I have no casual experience and in my past long term relationship we treated contraception and risk like our shared problem, so I was acting out of that habit, wanting to share the details of appointment as sharing risk and responsibilities together, just like I share every other daily worry with my current boyfriend. We're somewhere in between fwb and family-material-couple, but as we have different attitudes to responsibility, we should be more discreet about that type of worries probably.

 

We have a peculiar sense of humour, sometimes we pour out some ridiculous jokes, and we have joked before that he'd want to make me pregnant just to make his dream come true about making an abortion, a joke inspired by some old comic strip about liberals. I didn't know in advance the joke I'm going to make will hit home this time :) But I know now it was bad in the context.

 

Firelily, I'm going to be dead honest with you here. Some of your views are confusing and if I were the other person, I'd have a lot of trouble taking you seriously. Here are my reasons why: you're casually dating and yet call him your boyfriend. There are expectations that go along with being in a relationship (a traditional relationship, not casual relationship). You've already tricked yourself into thinking this is a relationship when it's not. There is no real commitment here.

 

Certain areas in casual dating are off limits: no awkward health details (nobody wants to hear about what your dr said). Casual relationships are supposed to be... well, casual. The other party probably also doesn't care about how you handle yourself in terms of birth control. Just get it done. Keep things lighthearted and fun. His psycho bs is also off limits. If he has psychiatric issues, he should have a psychologist or therapist helping him and you shouldn't be overextending yourself at all. Focus is on the bedroom and lots of play and other types of lighthearted sharing. This should never get deep and heavy or gf/bf crazy. What you've ended up doing is attempting to connect with someone (done all the heavy lifting in a relationship) and you've got nothing to show for it because this started off casually and would always be casual. Treating it one way from the get-go and expecting it to morph into something else is a bit of insanity. I hope you understand what I mean and none of this is meant to offend you or hurt you. The expectations aren't very realistic.

 

If you're looking for something more serious, be more honest with yourself when meeting someone at the start and don't skirt away or fear what you're really actually looking for in a partner. Don't trick yourself into thinking you can act and say you're into casual dating and then expect something deeper or more involved to come of it. It's misleading to the other person. I don't think he had any clear boundaries either and both of you might have influenced the other. Keep things clean, clear and realistic if you're casually dating from now on. Don't overextend yourself or overshare. Keep your individual self independent of this connection you share while dating someone casually and don't get so emotionally attached.

[ThatwasThen]

:) I've told him that on Thursday. It would make him much more relaxed with trusting women.

 

I've been greatly benefitting from regular cuddle therapy and a Netflix buddy, it helped me to calm myself down a lot, to ground myself. I like philosophical conversations with him, listening to gothic movies, to anime. Ranting about daily lives and his ongoing warm support, sweet texts every morning and evening, healthy sex, good food and shared jokes. Unfortunately he's not in love with me and I'm not in love with him. We openly wish ourselves to fall in love with someone in the future. Right now he's sharing with me that he's bittersweet sad his last girlfriend just got married, and I don't feel jealousy about it, I find it sweet and feel honoured that he shares it with me.

 

At first we tried being friends at first but it didn't work out either, cause it felt wrong not to be hugging and touching him. I think though if one of us was taken at the time we got to know each other, it would be very possible to never be more than friends.

 

It's one of these in between things. While I admire clarity and boundaries more and more, in between flexibility comes natural for me, so he found a perfect girl for that.

 

It's a bit charming that he's so neurotic, I treat it as his quirks. But in this particular topic, it seems to affect our relationships in a negative manner. Maybe more stuff will show in the future.

Then I suppose the only thing left for you to do is to let his rant go and continue to enjoy his company until you actually no longer do or, end things with him now if you can't do that. :)

 

What did he say when you suggest vasectomy to him?

[Batya33]

Thank you for answering!

 

You're making a good point, and it's good that you advocate the interest of the child :)

 

I think it's mostly the way of speaking - like when you said "oh well, I guess you will have to look further. Life isn't fair sometimes." that made me feel like a child being talked to by a know-it-all adult, rather than someone who wants to be an equal partner in discussion. And partly that particular fierceness in you that make you focus on the part where you differ in views, rather than what you agree on.

 

It's a good thing I've read this perspective on things, since I never known anyone who would ask for example hookups whether they're pro or against abortion. Ultimately it will be my decision to make.

 

Thanks for being understanding and all best to you too.

 

My fierceness is because -for better or for worse- this particular discussion of what's in the best interests of the child is a sensitive topic and certainly brings out a lot of sensitivity in me so I apologize for the fierceness. I remind myself regularly that life isn't fair and I'm not trying to treat myself like a child lol.

 

I appreciate so much your response in so many ways. Thank you.

[figureitout23]

So I’m late to the thread. So many excellent points made particularly by bat and blue, but too much to quote.

 

 

My big thing is... in your original post you let it slip your age and potential fear of not becoming a mother... you then say later in the post you aren’t ready to be a mom...

 

You also mentioned this was a casual relationship with no real labels, but later in the post you refer to him as your boyfriend...

 

How do I say this...

 

Girlfriend...

 

Denial is not just a river...

 

You want a relationship, you want the happily ever after with the house and 3 kids.

 

You’re attempting to mask that by playing the ‘cool chick’ down for casual don’t care where things go, but your passive comments scream that is not who you truly are.

 

You are selling yourself short all for the sake of having someone.

 

You will not wear him down and this is not a relationship.

 

Please recognize that, if you choose to continue awesome, but that means accepting who he is and what he’s offering, not staying with him while telling yourself things are more flowery and cute than they actually are.

[firelily]

So I’m late to the thread. So many excellent points made particularly by bat and blue, but too much to quote.

 

 

My big thing is... in your original post you let it slip your age and potential fear of not becoming a mother... you then say later in the post you aren’t ready to be a mom...

 

You also mentioned this was a casual relationship with no real labels, but later in the post you refer to him as your boyfriend...

 

How do I say this...

 

Girlfriend...

 

Denial is not just a river...

 

You want a relationship, you want the happily ever after with the house and 3 kids.

 

You’re attempting to mask that by playing the ‘cool chick’ down for casual don’t care where things go, but your passive comments scream that is not who you truly are.

 

You are selling yourself short all for the sake of having someone.

 

You will not wear him down and this is not a relationship.

 

Please recognize that, if you choose to continue awesome, but that means accepting who he is and what he’s offering, not staying with him while telling yourself things are more flowery and cute than they actually are.

 

Hm, where did I wrote anything about potential fear of NOT becoming a mother? :/ I definitely wrote that I could see myself being happy in a childless marriage. My mind isn't set, I definitely don't plan a big white house + 3 kids, this sounds like a nightmare :/ But I'm interested in meeting someone awesome, decide to spend lives together and decide if we want to have a kid one day or not.

 

I don't know how to call someone other than a boyfriend if they who stay over my house 3 times a week and are my favourite friend this year. But it's not a partner with whom I'm building the future together. If I got the most amazing job offer ever in another country, I would make the decision myself and inform him about it. If it was my partner I hope to keep for years, I'd tell that person about the job offer and decide together if I should take it or not. That's the main difference I see between "casual" and "serious". I'm also shielded or not interested in falling in love with him. That's what it is, I've been trying to be honest to what's actually between us on every step as it evolved from "maybe we can try being fwb?" place. It's not a dream relationship. Surprisingly I found the "having someone" experience really healing after years of dating long distance, so I think that arrangement itself could work well before finding someone I will want to build a life with. It's obviously complicated, not the answer to my deepest needs, and I may have troubles seeing it in clear light - but I don't think I'm showered with denial here either. I will need to move on to something more substantial at one point. I'm not sure if this is that point already.

[Batya33]

"I definitely don't plan a big white house + 3 kids, this sounds like a nightmare"

 

I hope you're joking - I'll assume you are. I don't want that either -I might not have rejected it had I had the opportunity to start having children earlier in life, but I never wanted a big house and I didn't see myself having more than two children. If there's a grain of truth in that please be mindful of not telling yourself cliche/stereotypical stories about parenthood to try to dissuade yourself -I promise you it's not all about living in the burbs with an SUV and coaching sports teams (I mean obviously there are parents who enjoy that lifestyle -understandably -looks fun from the outside despite not being for me - but I didn't have that growing up, neither did my husband and neither does our son -nor will he).

[figureitout23]

Hm, where did I wrote anything about potential fear of NOT becoming a mother? :/ I definitely wrote that I could see myself being happy in a childless marriage. My mind isn't set, I definitely don't plan a big white house + 3 kids, this sounds like a nightmare :/ But I'm interested in meeting someone awesome, decide to spend lives together and decide if we want to have a kid one day or not.

 

I don't know how to call someone other than a boyfriend if they who stay over my house 3 times a week and are my favourite friend this year. But it's not a partner with whom I'm building the future together. If I got the most amazing job offer ever in another country, I would make the decision myself and inform him about it. If it was my partner I hope to keep for years, I'd tell that person about the job offer and decide together if I should take it or not. That's the main difference I see between "casual" and "serious". I'm also shielded or not interested in falling in love with him. That's what it is, I've been trying to be honest to what's actually between us on every step as it evolved from "maybe we can try being fwb?" place. It's not a dream relationship. Surprisingly I found the "having someone" experience really healing after years of dating long distance, so I think that arrangement itself could work well before finding someone I will want to build a life with. It's obviously complicated, not the answer to my deepest needs, and I may have troubles seeing it in clear light - but I don't think I'm showered with denial here either. I will need to move on to something more substantial at one point. I'm not sure if this is that point already.

 

I'm dating someone casually, and this is what I need right now. We've started dating this summer. He's a very wise and self-aware person but God help me his cold logic attitude can be hard to bear. We agreed to date without expectations. We've also talked about getting pregnant scenario - he said multiple times he's against having children now and would support me only in decision of abortion. We've jokingly called him "a fan of abortion". I'm not "a fan" myself and I'm 31 (but not in hurry to have a family if I ever want that), so in case of unwanted pregnancy I would strongly think about keeping it, because I don't know when I will my future husband anyway (if I will). So we've talked about this and I told him it would be only my decision but I assured him I wouldn't want anything from him including money. I'm a very sincere person, heart on the sleeve, and he never had reason to doubt my words in any matter.

 

As others have pointed out these are the converations has by people who have t given thoughts to pregnancy and motherhood.

 

You claim there are no feelings but you also made mentions you’re ‘completely honest’ with each other and you made mention of how intimate and special the sex was without a condom...

 

Like come on...

 

Look I’m all for exploring your feelings about this subject and this man, I think it’s productive and you need to do so, but you will get no where lying to yourself.

 

And of course I don’t know you and don’t know your motivations but we are both human, humans tend to not do things for no reason, you’re settling, no question, what I don’t get is why?

[annie24]

If you do get pregnant, it sounds like you will have to raise the child alone.

[firelily]

If you do get pregnant, it sounds like you will have to raise the child alone.

 

Yes, this is what we agreed upon.

[firelily]

As others have pointed out these are the converations has by people who have t given thoughts to pregnancy and motherhood.

 

You claim there are no feelings but you also made mentions you’re ‘completely honest’ with each other and you made mention of how intimate and special the sex was without a condom...

 

Like come on...

 

Look I’m all for exploring your feelings about this subject and this man, I think it’s productive and you need to do so, but you will get no where lying to yourself.

 

And of course I don’t know you and don’t know your motivations but we are both human, humans tend to not do things for no reason, you’re settling, no question, what I don’t get is why?

 

I may seem some way to you on this forum, but if you asked my best friends "Will Firelily have children one day?", they would probably say "I don't think she wants that". I was always more against having children than for having them, now I'm getting close to 50/50, but it was never a life goal for me and it never will be.

 

There are two topics here: planned pregnancy (do I want to make a baby?) and unexpected pregnancy (there is a baby on the way; do you take it or not?).

 

I may never want to intentionally make a baby, I honestly don't know. When my friends asked me that question, I told them I probably could be happy with both versions of life.

 

If I happened to be pregnant despite my plans - I think logically it is silly for a woman 30 years old to abort a baby because it's not a perfect life scenario that she dreamed of, just to find a husband at 35 and then make another baby - or not find anyone like that. It's stupid, it's not a big time difference. It would be different for a 18 year old. If I didn't have it in me to raise a baby in unexpected pregnancy now, I shouldn't be allowed to ever make a baby - that's just my rational opinion about it. Because it would be being picky. I see getting pregnant after 30 as life asking you: "this is your chance at having a baby: do you take it or not?". If I decided then motherhood is something I'm up for, I definitely wouldn't be waiting for a perfect partner instead that might come or not.

 

This is my opinion about unexpected pregnancy. I would feel guilty if I aborted a baby then, because it would mean I was "supposed" to be a mother but didn't.

 

Considering planned pregnancy, I would not be sad or guilty if I never had children. For me having kids is just one of numerous things that could make me happy in life and I would just do more of the other ones, the life goals I was always more attracted to than to having family. I need a husband to feel complete, but I'll never need kids to feel complete - that's how I always was. But if I ever happen to have a child, I'd probably accommodate my life to that and be happy with it as well.

 

If I met now a perfect dream guy who told me family was their main life dream and they just need to start a family within 3 years, so if I don't give them that they can't be in a relationship with me, I would pack up and run.

 

It may sound a bit complicated, the bottomline is, I might not describe my thoughts well enough on this forum but I assure you I'm not in denial about wanting to be a mother.

[Wiseman2]

It seems you both enjoy the for-now fwb situation you have. Unfortunately those all come to an end and usually don't end well. In this case it may be that you sense you're the one who will eventually get hurt. He underscored that with making sure you knew he wanted no connection or future with you symbolized by the provocative text and hurtful "mean" exchanges.

 

He is still pining for his ex and carried a lot of hurtful baggage forward, but that is the risk of fwb and rebounding. At some level it sounds as though you wish someone loved you and embraced a future with you in an unconditional way, but this guy is sort of a holding pattern for now.

 

He may be "quirky" but he is also emotionally stunted and that makes him a high-risk proposition for getting hurt, since you seem to idealize him. This whole thing isn't about contraceptive method or abortions. It's about you falling and knowing he'll slip away.

I've been greatly benefitting from regular cuddle therapy and a Netflix buddy, it helped me to calm myself down a lot, to ground myself. I like philosophical conversations with him, listening to gothic movies, to anime. Ranting about daily lives and his ongoing warm support, sweet texts every morning and evening, healthy sex, good food and shared jokes. Unfortunately he's not in love with me and I'm not in love with him. he's sharing with me that he's bittersweet sad his last girlfriend just got married

[Batya33]

"If I happened to be pregnant despite my plans - I think logically it is silly for a woman 30 years old to abort a baby because it's not a perfect life scenario that she dreamed of, just to find a husband at 35 and then make another baby - or not find anyone like that. It's stupid, it's not a big time difference. It would be different for a 18 year old. If I didn't have it in me to raise a baby in unexpected pregnancy now, I shouldn't be allowed to ever make a baby - that's just my rational opinion about it. Because it would be being picky. I see getting pregnant after 30 as life asking you: "this is your chance at having a baby: do you take it or not?". If I decided then motherhood is something I'm up for, I definitely wouldn't be waiting for a perfect partner instead that might come or not."

 

My issue is that your analysis has nothing to do with what is in the best interests of the child, just has to do with the mother, her age and the biological clock. It's not about perfection, not about the perfect partner, it's about what is best for a child - and that doesn't mean "perfection" - to me personally that means waiting for a stable two-parent family preferably married or with a similar legal commitment (no, doesn't have to be the "perfect partner") where both parent want that child and want to be parents 100%. To me that's the minimum, not perfection, before you mess around with risky contraception and risky partners (meaning a partner who doesn't want a child or has different ideas about abortion).

 

It's not about "your only chance to have a baby biologically" -it should be, I think, in my humblest of opinions, about what is best for the child first and foremost, at minimum, not "perfection". People have opportunities to be parents without being biological parents of course, adoption, fostering, so that is always an option (or surrogacy, egg freezing which wasn't a viable alternative for me when I looked into it at age 32, 21 years ago).

 

This is why I might come across as "fierce" because it concerns an innocent child resulting not from a true accident (we can quibble over that but yes, double contraception or someone who lies about their vasectomy or heaven forbid rape) or where the parents get divorced or one parent dies before the baby is born (which happened to a friend of mine because of a terrorist incident).

 

I'm just questioning the way you are thinking about this one topic, not you as a person. You seem like a genuinely good and thoughtful person and I think it's great that you know you are not sure you want to be a parent. If you happen to have a child you say you would "probably accommodate your life" and "be happy" - again yes your happiness matters of course! But especially when you're pregnant and have a newborn and baby very often it's not about your 'happiness" (or sleep ,or having coffee that is hot, or taking a shower) - and "accommodate" (I am picking your word because I can tell you choose your words carefully) - is the least of it - very often accommodation is the least of it and it looks a lot more like huge sacrifice (I could tell you stories, all worth it, no regrets, and never expected it to be just about "accomodations" to my lifestyle). Again your self-knowledge you expressed is very valuable and hopefully you'll find casual or serious partners who feel the same about family.