Argument about contraception

[firelily]

Yeah it definitely sounds like some anxiety and neuroticism on his part. I understand it but it's totally inappropriate of him to lash out at you like he did. I would have a talk with him. Sorry to be blunt but he needs to pull on his big boy pants and act like an adult when it comes to his anxieties.

 

Again, I get where he's coming from. I was terrified of pregnancy and hated condoms so I got sterilized. He either needs to use condoms, get sterilized, or better handle his anxiety. I would talk to him and see what he says. If he justices the behavior or makes excuses for it, I'd start distancing myself.

 

:) He owns his stuff, realizes that he's been a jerk after I've explained his perspective. That's why being with him has been bearable despite his attitude. It will be years though before he says "sorry" for something cause he has some sophisticated philosophy about apologies not working, people doing what's they feel is right and the moment and people not being able to change. It's like dating Rust Coyle the nihilist from True Detective. He really listens. He's his own worse judge, and I admire him for his courage to confront his behavior, for example in admitting his cruelty in past relationship (a bit like what happened now, but that gal had it worse, and she was in love with him). I live with too much self-reflection, self-analysis and nitpicking on every thing in myself, and he's the first person (and especially guy) I met who is even worse than me :)

 

I wish him well, I think one day after a lot of self-work on his trust issues especially (single child with no friends), he'll be able to have a well-functioning partnership with someone who's good with logical discussions and patient like me. It won't be with me. I might be for some part of that road, not like it's my mission, but we can share some time as long as it's beneficial for us both. I'm weighting out now if it's still beneficial enough for me for some time.

 

Thank you for advice. I think I need to talk to him one more time about taking responsibility for his own anxieties - we had a another argument about this a previous week. He got to know my friends, he was incredibly insecure about it though it didn't show, we ordered a taxi with a lot of problems, he felt stupid in eyes of my friends for all the hiccups of ordering a taxi, and later was mean to me for it. After discussion he understood what happened in him and owned his part. But it's been emotionally exhausting.

[Hollyj]

Thanks!

 

And all best to you, Holly. Hope you're doing fine :)

 

I wish you the very best. I apologize for coming off so harsh.

 

Good luck! :)

[Hollyj]

:) He owns his stuff, realizes that he's been a jerk after I've explained his perspective. That's why being with him has been bearable despite his attitude. It will be years though before he says "sorry" for something cause he has some sophisticated philosophy about apologies not working, people doing what's they feel is right and the moment and people not being able to change. It's like dating Rust Coyle the nihilist from True Detective. He really listens. He's his own worse judge, and I admire him for his courage to confront his behavior, for example in admitting his cruelty in past relationship (a bit like what happened now, but that gal had it worse, and she was in love with him). I live with too much self-reflection, self-analysis and nitpicking on every thing in myself, and he's the first person (and especially guy) I met who is even worse than me :)

 

I wish him well, I think one day after a lot of self-work on his trust issues especially (single child with no friends), he'll be able to have a well-functioning partnership with someone who's good with logical discussions and patient like me. It won't be with me. I might be for some part of that road, not like it's my mission, but we can share some time as long as it's beneficial for us both. I'm weighting out now if it's still beneficial enough for me for some time.

 

Thank you for advice. I think I need to talk to him one more time about taking responsibility for his own anxieties - we had a another argument about this a previous week. He got to know my friends, he was incredibly insecure about it though it didn't show, we ordered a taxi with a lot of problems, he felt stupid in eyes of my friends for all the hiccups of ordering a taxi, and later was mean to me for it. After discussion he understood what happened in him and owned his part. But it's been emotionally exhausting.

 

Has he sought therapy?

[firelily]

Has he sought therapy?

 

He had a few psychodynamic therapists who helped him with his social phobia and depression at the time. Now he's better with his anxieties and much better professionally. After we talked yesterday, I recommended to him cognitive behavioral therapy both to improve his ability to function in close relationships, and for his own stuff (he's getting some weight and started considering developing bulimia as a good life choice... so I think it he could really benefit from sorting out his thoughts with a CBT therapist, or a psychodietetician). His next 3 months or so will be occupied with moving from his rented cramped student room to his own empty apartment, arranging all of it etc. So not a lot of mind space. But after that, if we'll still date or be friends, I'll be encouraging him to focus on improving mental health with therapy and more healthy lifestyle. He's out of depression and having grip at life now, doing fine, but some parts of him need tons of self-love.

[Hollyj]

Fire,

 

This sounds like a lot of work. This guy has a boatload of stuff going on, and it does sound draining. I believe I read that you suffer from depression? If so, this is not good for you. He is quite unstable.

[firelily]

Fire,

 

This sounds like a lot of work. This guy has a boatload of stuff going on, and it does sound draining. I believe I read that you suffer from depression? If so, this is not good for you. He is quite unstable.

 

I believe he is stable for now, but he has some stuff and I'm not tempted to plan future with him.

 

I had a depressive state for years affecting my studies and work and since spring I've been finally free from the dark cloud and secure and hopeful about life. I don't feel able to date someone with active depression, but I've always been attracted to people with depressive streaks in personalities. All of my Tinder matches were with depressed people. I really wish to meet someone confident, radiant and happy in life who would be a good partner to me, but still someone with some compassion and understanding how it is to struggle with mental issues. Wonder when I'll attract someone like that for a change :) But I'm open to date people who have some issues (but not like suicidal) as long as it's makes me happier and not heavier.

[Rose Mosse]

Your comment about the abortion is a bit of a mood killer, OP. I don't know what couple would want to get it on after something like that. I know you regretted it afterwards so it's all water under the bridge now. For a no-strings type of fwb or casual relationship, this sure got complicated fast. I don't blame him for freaking out a little. If you're really only interested in fwb and not baby making or interested in a family, don't make comments about potential pregnancies. I think you may be anxious or fearful about getting pregnant outside of a traditional or committed relationship. Neither of you are bad people. Both of you seem very aware and uncomfortable with the risks. Maybe the better thing to do would be to limit those risks altogether or simply handle it more discreetly (no off colour jokes, just sexy time).

[MirrorKnight]

I had a depressive state for years affecting my studies and work and since spring I've been finally free from the dark cloud and secure and hopeful about life. I don't feel able to date someone with active depression, but I've always been attracted to people with depressive streaks in personalities. All of my Tinder matches were with depressed people.

 

Why do you think that is?

 

I am not going to presumptive here but are you possibly looking for validation and comfort, as opposed to a healthy partner who might make you feel self-conscious? From my observation, a lot of depressed people do not want solutions to their problems, but just somebody to give them a big hug and say, "there there, it's alright to feel the way you do, you are brave, the world sucks, I love you for who you are... etc etc" And the end result is that a lot of depressed people gravitate towards each other, and enable each other's continued depressive state.

 

Anyway not saying that was what is going on here, it looks like you at least partly recognize that dating somebody with extensive mental health issues is not a good idea.

 

We are the same age, I am also recovering from depression, which had a significant impact on my life in my 20s... Unfortunately depression is not something that is just magically cured, it is quite easy to relapse if you encounter various triggers again, so I would really suggest that you steer clear of other people with mental health issues, there is a significant risk that one or both of you could relapse and drag the other down with them.

 

Finally just a quick point. You are 31, you still have time, but not a whole lot more, if you want to ever start a family. The fact that this guy is so paranoid of getting you pregnant is a red flag that he does not see a long term future with you. You do not want to waste years with this guy, maybe he moves on from his mental health issues... and then moves on from you because he no longer desires the compassion, forgiveness and comfort that you provide in his period of weakness.

[Hollyj]

I believe he is stable for now, but he has some stuff and I'm not tempted to plan future with him.

 

I had a depressive state for years affecting my studies and work and since spring I've been finally free from the dark cloud and secure and hopeful about life. I don't feel able to date someone with active depression, but I've always been attracted to people with depressive streaks in personalities. All of my Tinder matches were with depressed people. I really wish to meet someone confident, radiant and happy in life who would be a good partner to me, but still someone with some compassion and understanding how it is to struggle with mental issues. Wonder when I'll attract someone like that for a change :) But I'm open to date people who have some issues (but not like suicidal) as long as it's makes me happier and not heavier.

 

I am happy you are in a better place. Are you seeing a therapist, now?

 

Sweetie, it is not who you attract, but who you choose. You are the common denominator. Have you considered what attracts you to this dynamic? My thought, is that you choose these people because they are safe- the relationship will not have longevity, because the other person is incapable of it. I think you should address your fears of allowing people in, then you will make healthier choices.

[firelily]

Your comment about the abortion is a bit of a mood killer, OP. I don't know what couple would want to get it on after something like that. I know you regretted it afterwards so it's all water under the bridge now. For a no-strings type of fwb or casual relationship, this sure got complicated fast. I don't blame him for freaking out a little. If you're really only interested in fwb and not baby making or interested in a family, don't make comments about potential pregnancies. I think you may be anxious or fearful about getting pregnant outside of a traditional or committed relationship. Neither of you are bad people. Both of you seem very aware and uncomfortable with the risks. Maybe the better thing to do would be to limit those risks altogether or simply handle it more discreetly (no off colour jokes, just sexy time).

 

Yeah, I realize this now, the worries should be more of my responsibility. I have no casual experience and in my past long term relationship we treated contraception and risk like our shared problem, so I was acting out of that habit, wanting to share the details of appointment as sharing risk and responsibilities together, just like I share every other daily worry with my current boyfriend. We're somewhere in between fwb and family-material-couple, but as we have different attitudes to responsibility, we should be more discreet about that type of worries probably.

 

We have a peculiar sense of humour, sometimes we pour out some ridiculous jokes, and we have joked before that he'd want to make me pregnant just to make his dream come true about making an abortion, a joke inspired by some old comic strip about liberals. I didn't know in advance the joke I'm going to make will hit home this time :) But I know now it was bad in the context.

[firelily]

I am happy you are in a better place. Are you seeing a therapist, now?

 

Sweetie, it is not who you attract, but who you choose. You are the common denominator. Have you considered what attracts you to this dynamic? My thought, is that you choose these people because they are safe- the relationship will not have longevity, because the other person is incapable of it. I think you should address your fears of allowing people in, then you will make healthier choices.

 

Actually I feel I'd have longevity only with depressed people. Most of my life I've been misunderstood, a weird metal girl in black t-shirt at the back of the classroom. It's only after I reached other girls and guys with some life sadness and too much thinking, that I've been able to connect with someone, have deep and long lasting friendships and feel supported rather than judged. I still meet a lot of people I don't resonate with. Some people don't respect my ways. Some people would judge me harshly for being out of work due to not feeling well, some mock me for being absent-minded or spilling coffee every day. Most just don't understand the stuff I'm taking about, when I talk about what matters to me - some moving music or movies that make me think, my feels, reflections about life, the shade of the leaves. I felt most at home at culture studies where there were only freaks like me, and when I started studying part-time business psychology with some "successful managers", they always looked at me in a funny way and once openly asked if I'm retarded or something. I adapt now better to different people, but for friends I only choose people I can be myself with. It's always been the weirdos that had the home feeling for me. I'd just be perfect if I could build a good life with a weirdo who is happy with his life now and can share that happiness. I guess it's not common for weirdos to be happy early in life, and I wouldn't even know who to look for, having too few role models of happy and fulfilled weirdos to know how to spot them.

[firelily]

I have CBT therapy somewhere in my plans... but there are always better things to do with 20% of my monthly salary, like paying for new studies, buying new clothes for my new amazing job, buying a computer, saving up for a driving license, saving up for a dog... It will happen one day

[firelily]

Why do you think that is?

 

I am not going to presumptive here but are you possibly looking for validation and comfort, as opposed to a healthy partner who might make you feel self-conscious? From my observation, a lot of depressed people do not want solutions to their problems, but just somebody to give them a big hug and say, "there there, it's alright to feel the way you do, you are brave, the world sucks, I love you for who you are... etc etc" And the end result is that a lot of depressed people gravitate towards each other, and enable each other's continued depressive state.

 

Anyway not saying that was what is going on here, it looks like you at least partly recognize that dating somebody with extensive mental health issues is not a good idea.

 

We are the same age, I am also recovering from depression, which had a significant impact on my life in my 20s... Unfortunately depression is not something that is just magically cured, it is quite easy to relapse if you encounter various triggers again, so I would really suggest that you steer clear of other people with mental health issues, there is a significant risk that one or both of you could relapse and drag the other down with them.

 

Finally just a quick point. You are 31, you still have time, but not a whole lot more, if you want to ever start a family. The fact that this guy is so paranoid of getting you pregnant is a red flag that he does not see a long term future with you. You do not want to waste years with this guy, maybe he moves on from his mental health issues... and then moves on from you because he no longer desires the compassion, forgiveness and comfort that you provide in his period of weakness.

 

Actually I'm not sure if I want family - I'm ok with it but I'm ok with not having it. I definitely wouldn't be comfortable dating someone who insisted they need to start a family soon to feel happy. I'm also more interested in adoption a bit later in life once I feel really ready to be a parent than natural birth which doesn't sound like a joy to me, but I'm open to changing my mind with the right person. Definitely no maternal instinct-clock is ticking type of person, and in future I can see myself happy in a childless marriage.

 

With this guy I'm dating, it's mutual that at the moment we don't see it as something with long term potential due to how we feel about each other (more than friends, more than fwb, but less than life partners with future).

 

I probably look for comfort as I'm used to take sole responsibility for seeking solutions to my problems. I definitely don't need someone like a sport coach to motivate me to get out of some rut - I don't respond well to patronizing and I'm ambitious enough to constantly seek improvement myself anyway. My dream relationship would include some comfort and some practical support in what I decide to work on. Like I don't need someone to nag me about making that driving licence since I'm motivated myself to do it eventually, but I could use someone who could borrow m his car for training on designated area and dedicate some time for me, help me to organize money for lessons once I asked for help in this area, etc. If a "successful" person dates a depressed person who's seem to them lazy, unsuccessful and unmotivated, they have a tendency to talk down to them and offer very rigid and narrow advice in terms of "oh you don't my solutions you just want pity", "of course it's more comfortable to you". They can offer 1 or 2 ideas which the depressed person already thought of but they were just not the answer in this situation, and get offended at person for not wanting their 1 or 2 advices which equals in their mind for not wanting advices at all. I'm writing this based on relationship with my dad and some other people in my life. So considering I'm a fighter for a better life anyway, it I had to choose between only compassion or only solutions, I'd pick compassion. But I feel most of my girl friends excel in this type of support, so I think I look for some lighter combo in a relationship with a man - someone who is my partner in life, facing problems together rather than dwelling on them too long, but with a lot of understanding and respect.

[Wiseman2]

Since this is casual dating it would be best to protect yourself in a way that you see fit. Contraception for birth control and condoms to prevent the risk of STDs. The 'what if I got pregnant' conversation should not even be happening with someone who you are not in a relationship with. It seems you are already at each other's throats with nasty sarcastic texts and retorts. Don't dish out what you can't take.

 

 

Why bother with someone like this? "Like most guys...he said something mean?" Do you normally taunt people about getting pregnant? Why bother with that? It seems you haven't been choosing well in the past, so perhaps you're not ready to date. All of this is in your control. From who you date to protecting yourself to having the exclusive conversation etc. Next time you go to the doctor get tested for STDs. Consider ending it with this guy, you seem incompatible and antagonistic with each other.

I'm dating someone casually. I'm ok with him using condoms as an additional method if that makes him feel more safe.

 

I told my bf that on text about the visit, and I jokingly wrote that "I hope your dreams about abortion won't come true".He came to my place and got angry at me for writing that, that I shouldn't be joking about this. That maybe he didn't make himself clear about where he stands with the topic of unwanted pregnancy

 

I didn't have energy to tell him that, I just started crying. Like most guys, he said something mean when I started crying.

[firelily]

Since this is casual dating it would be best to protect yourself in a way that you see fit. Contraception for birth control and condoms to prevent the risk of STDs. The 'what if I got pregnant' conversation should not even be happening with someone who you are not in a relationship with. It seems you are already at each other's throats with nasty sarcastic texts and retorts. Don't dish out what you can't take.

 

 

Why bother with someone like this? "Like most guys...he said something mean?" Do you normally taunt people about getting pregnant? Why bother with that? It seems you haven't been choosing well in the past, so perhaps you're not ready to date. All of this is in your control. From who you date to protecting yourself to having the exclusive conversation etc. Next time you go to the doctor get tested for STDs. Consider ending it with this guy, you seem incompatible and antagonistic with each other.

 

I think you might have misunderstood the dynamics. We're not at each other's throats, it was really a weird sense of humor. There was this comic strip about liberals in my country - that the right-wing people perceive them as lesbians who want to do in vitro procedure just to be able to abort later - because liberals are supposedly such fans of abortion and all these stuff. We're both liberals and he has been joking before that he's a fan of abortion and that it's a shame I won't get pregnant to have abortion, because it would be so cool, or something like that. He obviously doesn't think that way, it was some weird and layered sense of humour understood between two people. So my text wasn't meant to be passive-agressive or anything like that, it was supposed to be a way of saying I was worried in a light-hearted manner, but it turned out bad in the context and timing. I get the picture you took from it out of the context, and I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that would be constantly bitter and passive-aggressive - this is not the case.

 

As for crying, in my experience and what I hear from all my friends and family, many guys get uncomfortable when seeing their woman cry if they don't understand the reason. They can walk away of the room, or they may tell her to stop crying, to stop acting silly, you know, something like that. The same partners can hug a woman when she crying on some days but act cold or unsupportive on other days just because they freak out seeing tears and they don't know what they are supposed to do. This has been my knowledge of most of heterosexual relationships.

[Batya33]

So from the perspective of the best interests of a future child I would wait until you are in a stable marriage or domestic partnership before having a baby or adopting a baby. It doesn’t seem fair to a future child to conceive knowing the father wants nothing to do with her - doesn’t a child of yours deserve a chance at the starting gate of a two parent stable family? Of course there are no guarantees but this level of risk with this kind of guy - why subject a child to that. When I knew I didn’t want pregnancy we used pill plus condom - even though there was no STD risk. I know of women getting pregnant while on the pill. Good luck.

[Wiseman2]

That's unfortunate. If having casual sex with political sparring partners is what makes you happy fine, but then don't cry when it gets escalated and out of hand to this point. No most men are not "mean" but you seem to pick them out for some reason.

This has been my knowledge of most of heterosexual relationships.

[firelily]

So from the perspective of the best interests of a future child I would wait until you are in a stable marriage or domestic partnership before having a baby or adopting a baby. It doesn’t seem fair to a future child to conceive knowing the father wants nothing to do with her - doesn’t a child of yours deserve a chance at the starting gate of a two parent stable family? Of course there are no guarantees but this level of risk with this kind of guy - why subject a child to that. When I knew I didn’t want pregnancy we used pill plus condom - even though there was no STD risk. I know of women getting pregnant while on the pill. Good luck.

 

Thanks, Batya. I also think now double contraception would be the best for us.

 

I don't plan any kids now of course, just faced with unwanted pregnancy that can happen in all sexual relationships, I would probably consider keeping it over abortion, maybe due to being raised in a religious family.

[Fudgie]

I would probably consider keeping it over abortion, maybe due to being raised in a religious family.

 

Have you told him that you feel this way?

[firelily]

That's unfortunate. If having casual sex with political sparring partners is what makes you happy fine, but then don't cry when it gets escalated and out of to this point. No most men are not "mean" but you seem to pick them out for some reason.

 

I don't know why you generalized some pieces that I wrote. I didn't said most men are mean, I wrote most men can react in immature ways faced with tears they don't understand. I'm afraid everyone has a day when they say something uncaring, it doesn't mean that person is always uncaring. No one should stand abuse of course, but I was talking about regular kind of stuff that happen in relationships, that's why I didn't go into details in my post.

 

Also it was not political sparring, we have similar political views and because of it we have some common language that we used in talking about our matters. It really doesn't matter, just realized it needed context so I added it. We don't say mean stuff to each other on regular basis, the only hard time for me are our arguments, which happen every few weeks so far.

 

I'm not saying I think this is the best relationship I could be in, I just wanted some advice whether to continue on my actual relationship, and I think you got a very wrong image of how it works.

[firelily]

Have you told him that you feel this way?

 

Yes, we've discussed this through, even before having sex. At first he was disappointed, expected a different answer. I told him where I stand and that I respect a man's decision not to be involved. Then we started having sex. It was weird now to hear that he has doubts about whether to believe me. I get that it's not an easy situation for a man not to have any control over things like that, but I wouldn't date someone if I didn't trust their words.

[Fudgie]

You did your part. You knows your stance and he needs to decide if he's personally OK with it or not. He shouldn't take out his anxiety on you.

 

I agree with you that double protection is best.

 

I think relying on one method alone in this case would only be okay if you two were 100% on the same page... Keep, adopt, or abort.

[firelily]

You did your part. You knows your stance and he needs to decide if he's personally OK with it or not. He shouldn't take out his anxiety on you.

 

I agree with you that double protection is best.

 

I think relying on one method alone in this case would only be okay if you two were 100% on the same page... Keep, adopt, or abort.

 

Yeah, it makes sense. Thank you for your thoughts.

[Batya33]

Thanks, Batya. I also think now double contraception would be the best for us.

 

I don't plan any kids now of course, just faced with unwanted pregnancy that can happen in all sexual relationships, I would probably consider keeping it over abortion, maybe due to being raised in a religious family.

 

Unwanted pregnancy can happen but it doesn't have to happen in situations other than what Fudgie described below. That's in your control. I had sex with a man who wouldn't have wanted me to keep an accidental pregnancy and I regret to this day that I had sex with him even though thank goodness there was no pregnancy. Not sure what the heck I was thinking (because I don't think I could ever abort, luckily never had to make that kind of decision). Please don't risk a pregnancy you would keep "for religious reasons" -that doesn't seem to be in the best interests of a child -or fair to a child.

[firelily]

Unwanted pregnancy can happen but it doesn't have to happen in situations other than what Fudgie described below. That's in your control. I had sex with a man who wouldn't have wanted me to keep an accidental pregnancy and I regret to this day that I had sex with him even though thank goodness there was no pregnancy. Not sure what the heck I was thinking (because I don't think I could ever abort, luckily never had to make that kind of decision). Please don't risk a pregnancy you would keep "for religious reasons" -that doesn't seem to be in the best interests of a child -or fair to a child.

 

I'm not sure I'll ever be ready to be a mother, or consciously want kids, but I still obviously want to have sex before I'm old. That puts me in a different spot than people who are consciously planning family at some point of their lives. I just believe life sometimes gives you unexpected chances at something good, you know? So if something like that happened, I think I'd be too curious not to try it. I'll probably never feel like "I can do this for sure!", but I approach responsibilities of life as they come. But of course I don't want to risk that any more than you always risk by having protected sex.