Dancing With Demons

[Nickel Speed]

So she's being a b**** simply because I'm being nice?

 

I don't see why the waitress would punch.

[boltnrun]

So she's being a b**** simply because I'm being nice?

 

I don't see why the waitress would punch.

 

She's CONTINUING to treat you the way she does because you allow it.

 

Where did you get the idea that letting someone walk all over you will make them love you?

[bluecastle]

So she's being a b**** simply because I'm being nice?

 

I don't see why the waitress would punch.

 

It doesn't matter why the waitress would punch, you see? What matters is that the waitress did punch, has shown a consistent inability to not punch, and as a result I'm injured and malnourished.

 

Do I keep getting hurt with the hope of understanding why she is hurting me? Or do I stop going to the burger joint, let the face heal, get some meat on the bones elsewhere, and, in the process, get strong and healthy enough to no longer care why that waitress felt the need to punch me?

[Nickel Speed]

Understanding how and why things work is how I function. I need to understand the reason to rationalize it.

[Nickel Speed]

A waitress doesn't punch you for no reason. Did you grab her, tip poorly?

[ninjabib]

OP she is taking the piss out of you and you are letting her. She is getting a kick out of this believe me. You are being given good advice and not listening. She is literally laughing at you.

[boltnrun]

What happens if you don't get your "why???" answer?

 

Sometimes you have to accept that you will never know someone's true motivations.

 

Look, when I was younger and really immature I would sometimes call another guy if the guy I was dating was ignoring me or acting dismissively. I wanted to be soothed by attention from someone else. Then, when the guy I REALLY wanted attention from started being nice again I'd vanish.

 

I'm not proud that I used to act that way and I've matured since then. But I would speculate your ex craves attention and when she can't get it from the source she wants it from she looks to you. And you leap every single time, then get hurt when she isn't acting the way you hoped she would.

 

The big "why???" you'd be better served in asking is why you behave the way YOU do.

[Seraphim]

You can’t rationalize shyte behaviour.

Understanding how and why things work is how I function. I need to understand the reason to rationalize it.

[Batya33]

I think the point being made is to understand why you react the way you do and why you "work" the way you do -far more relevant than why she acts as she does- maybe she doesn't know or even have a reason why. Speculation.

[Nickel Speed]

Why I would be upset that I was never her type and she just "settled" for me after being head over heels for me for years. Used to go out of her way to make me happy. Why would she for someone who she supposedly never found attractive?

[Seraphim]

You want to be kicked in the nuts?

[figureitout23]

Why I would be upset that I was never her type and she just "settled" for me after being head over heels for me for years. Used to go out of her way to make me happy. Why would she for someone who she supposedly never found attractive?

 

So do you think she’s saying it just to hurt you? That’s possible and what people are saying, she’s being hurtful to you. I don’t think the reason really matters, I think that was the point of blues analogy.

 

I wasn’t sure if you were being. Tongue and cheek or if you really weren’t understanding what he was trying to say. There was a girl I knew in high school who was famously known as being argumentative. She was always incredibly literal, she did not operate in the grey, and that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, a few years ago I remember her posting on Facebook that she was diagnosed on the spectrum. I remember thinking ‘ooooooohhhh’ because the way she reacted made perfect sense, she wasn’t being argumentative, it literally didn’t make sense to her, it’s not how her brain worked.

 

I know yiunooses about possibly being ADHD, did you ever see a Dr. About that? Sorry for going off topic, but the way you responded to blue if you are being serious... it may explain why what were saying is so well foreign to you.

 

The reason behind why she’s acting this way isn’t as important as the fact that she’s doing it. It’s hurtful and mean and you accepting it is doing damage, and as blue said feeding an unhealthy dynamic.

 

Pages and pages ago I made made mention that, it would notnairprise me of this was how you two have always interacted and you just didn’t see it. She cheated early in your relationship, damaging it, you became a bit passive aggressive ( according to the original post) so that dysfunctional attachment formed early between you two. I have no doubt she in her own way loves you, I have no doubt that she tried to make it work. I also have no doubt that she has always been open to the other man coming back and when he did...

 

Now she’s dealing with the emotional aftermath of that and she’s coping by playing with you and doing hurtful things.

[Nickel Speed]

I understood Blue's point that it should not matter why she said it. The problem is that it does matter and I need to understand her motivation.

 

I really don't think she was saying it just to hurt me. I think she was just talking about what was on her mind. But it didn't make it any less hurtful that she brought up the fact I wasn't her type. She shouldn't have ever mentioned it, especially given the circumstances.

 

I'm an accountant by day, but I lift, restore classic cars, motorcycle, build large structures, metal fab, etc. I was a helicopter mechanic when we met. Maybe my new career path since then has affected her view of me? I dress professionally now because it's required, and I've gained some weight due to nature of the job. I'm not fat, but I don't have the 6 pack I had when we met.

I don't know. I'm sure I'm overthinking things as usual.

 

 

Everyone's solution seems to be distance because I'm incapable of handling being near her.

Hopefully with time and practice I will be more removed from my feelings towards her and she won't affect me as much. It's certainly less than it was a month ago.

[Nickel Speed]

Didn't go to Dollywood. This morning she said she was sick.

[boltnrun]

Didn't go to Dollywood. This morning she said she was sick.

 

Not one bit surprising. She didn't need to go. She already accomplished her goal.

 

Hope next time you either ignore her fake invitation or tell her "no".

[Nickel Speed]

She started off this morning by telling me a guy I know started messaging her and asking for a date, but she deleted him because he was so annoying.

 

I told her off and that I wasn't interested at all about hearing about her love life and to message her friends. She apologized. Been ignoring her since.

[Nickel Speed]

Not one bit surprising. She didn't need to go. She already accomplished her goal.

 

Hope next time you either ignore her fake invitation or tell her "no".

 

It worked out for me anyway. I really needed to mow the yard and get caught up around the house. Then I spent a few hours working on my car. Trying to get it ready for a couple of car shows again.

 

She said the free tickets expired that day, but that she would buy me a ticket and we would go next month. Pretty much told her "Yeah, whatever. I know you are lying about being sick." To which she responded that she wasn't and I changed the subject and said I had stuff to do.

[Seraphim]

She started off this morning by telling me a guy I know started messaging her and asking for a date, but she deleted him because he was so annoying.

 

I told her off and that I wasn't interested at all about hearing about her love life and to message her friends. She apologized. Been ignoring her since.

 

Good start. Tell her you are not her bestie and to pee off. If she needs something for your child call, otherwise piss off.

[Nickel Speed]

I also realized that I could see her recently added friends on Facebook, so I could see the guys she was talking about adding that were more her "type." I do now think she was playing games. There were a couple new single guys in her list, and frankly I'm much more attractive and in better shape...physically, financially, etc. Not trying to come off as cocky, but if beer guts and baby faces are her thing.. more power to her.

"

[bluecastle]

Sounds like you're starting—just a touch—to see things clearly. To help with that path, I'm going to cut to some real talk.

 

You want an explanation for all this? Well, from my seats it's very simple. Your ex/wife is 25, immature and deeply insecure, hitting the skids in the ways of millions of 20somethings before her. It's not mysterious. It's not cute. Get close and you're likely to get hurt, no different than getting close to a car skidding out of control. Get inside that car, as in trying to sustain a relationship with someone skidding? Guaranteed to crash. Real pain.

 

She does not like or trust herself very much, and so she's seeking people who serve two purposes: to prop her up and bring her down. She is finding "power" in recklessness, in self-annihilation, courting short term attention to plug deep voids and momentarily dull her sharpest edges. Subconsciously, she brings up other men with you because it feeds that power—she watches you wobble, get flustered, and feels both good and awful about who she is.

 

If you allow yourself real time to reflect—time uninterrupted by these repeat micro dramas that damage your spirit—I suspect you'll find this is not a new dynamic. That throughout your relationship, when things got tough or tense, she'd traffic in the language of jealousy and possessiveness—getting you against the ropes by mentioning another man or doing something with another man. She cheated once early, of course, and you stayed in the game. She cheated again, and at present you remain in the game. No incentive for change there, you see?

 

The best thing you can do, which is the hardest, is to simply detach. To just be ice cold. Because getting flustered as you did, telling her off? Well, that actually rewards her—the same way it is momentarily "rewarding" you by allowing you to feel superior. That sends a message to her brainstem that says: I can still rile him up, and as long as she can get that reward she won't have the incentive to evolve. So she will continue to try. You responding more gently, wanting to understand? That's just another form of being riled up, off-center, and the reward is the same. This is where the game becomes a trap—where genuine connection is replaced by poking and prodding—and where the only way out of it is to truly stop playing it.

[Nickel Speed]

Sounds like you're starting—just a touch—to see things clearly. To help with that path, I'm going to cut to some real talk.

 

You want an explanation for all this? Well, from my seats it's very simple. Your ex/wife is 25, immature and deeply insecure, hitting the skids in the ways of millions of 20somethings before her. It's not mysterious. It's not cute. Get close and you're likely to get hurt, no different than getting close to a car skidding out of control. Get inside that car, as in trying to sustain a relationship with someone skidding? Guaranteed to crash. Real pain.

 

She does not like or trust herself very much, and so she's seeking people who serve two purposes: to prop her up and bring her down. She is finding "power" in recklessness, in self-annihilation, courting short term attention to plug deep voids and momentarily dull her sharpest edges. Subconsciously, she brings up other men with you because it feeds that power—she watches you wobble, get flustered, and feels both good and awful about who she is.

 

If you allow yourself real time to reflect—time uninterrupted by these repeat micro dramas that damage your spirit—I suspect you'll find this is not a new dynamic. That throughout your relationship, when things got tough or tense, she'd traffic in the language of jealousy and possessiveness—getting you against the ropes by mentioning another man or doing something with another man. She cheated once early, of course, and you stayed in the game. She cheated again, and at present you remain in the game. No incentive for change there, you see?

 

The best thing you can do, which is the hardest, is to simply detach. To just be ice cold. Because getting flustered as you did, telling her off? Well, that actually rewards her—the same way it is momentarily "rewarding" you by allowing you to feel superior. That sends a message to her brainstem that says: I can still rile him up, and as long as she can get that reward she won't have the incentive to evolve. So she will continue to try. You responding more gently, wanting to understand? That's just another form of being riled up, off-center, and the reward is the same. This is where the game becomes a trap—where genuine connection is replaced by poking and prodding—and where the only way out of it is to truly stop playing it.

 

 

The part in bold is where you are definitely incorrect. There were no mentions of other men and she didn't do things to make me jealous. There was that one single incident many years ago where she cheated on Christmas eve, and left me on Christmas day to go back to her "family life" with him. You can make the assumption as many times as you like as it is a common one. We don't fit the bill here.

 

Frankly, through our relationship I never really got jealous and she didn't do things to make me jealous. Not until the end and I suspected her of cheating.

 

As far as her being insecure, that is certainly true. Then again, aren't most of us on some level about some things?

 

Mature? She's been a great mom, has a well paying professional career, is back in school to finish a degree, etc. Bad with money though.

[Seraphim]

But is it mature to cheat?

[ninjabib]

The point Bluecastle is making is that these games are how she operates whether shes cheated multiple times or not. This is how she will react when things get tough or she feels unhappy. This is how she controls you and validates herself.

[Nickel Speed]

Side note. Catching up with my ex went well. Hung out, had fun, etc. However, I don't see us being in a relationship again. There were a couple areas where we weren't compatible. She's catholic. She is involved much deeper with religion than when we met years ago. Said an elaborate lengthy grace before we had a burger at a fast food place. I'm not religious at all, agnostic. It doesn't bother me that she is, but I feel it'd be an issue for her and her family. Second, she only speaks to her child in Spanish and scolds her family when they speak to the child in English. She says that she wants her child to be fluent in Spanish and that her child will learn English when she goes to school. Obviously I could not adhere to those wishes when we hung out, as my Spanish is weak. That's just after the first "date."

 

While she's a great person, I don't see us coming to common ground. Will still hang out with her as friends.

[abitbroken]

Side note. Catching up with my ex went well. Hung out, had fun, etc. However, I don't see us being in a relationship again. There were a couple areas where we weren't compatible. She's catholic. She is involved much deeper with religion than when we met years ago. Said an elaborate lengthy grace before we had a burger at a fast food place. I'm not religious at all, agnostic. It doesn't bother me that she is, but I feel it'd be an issue for her and her family. Second, she only speaks to her child in Spanish and scolds her family when they speak to the child in English. She says that she wants her child to be fluent in Spanish and that her child will learn English when she goes to school. Obviously I could not adhere to those wishes when we hung out, as my Spanish is weak. That's just after the first "date."

 

While she's a great person, I don't see us coming to common ground. Will still hang out with her as friends.

 

Dude -- what planet are you on? That's a total red herring.

 

you are saying you could never be together because she is Catholic --- yet you were already married to her and accepted that about her. The ship has sailed on "this is what our incompatibilities are that make us bad marriage material"

 

No, the reason you would never be with her again is because you wore her down and she cheated. If you didn't create a child together, you would have never married her. So own up to it, and don't chase red herrings.