Dancing With Demons

[ninjabib]

Being played for a fool.

[Nickel Speed]

Being played for a fool.

 

Makes 0 sense.

[ninjabib]

Shes asked you to do that trip as a test too either :-

 

1) See how you respond, are you still the man she is no longer attracted too and disrespects. You answered yes you are. She can pick you up and drop you at will regardless of she treats you.

 

2) She genuinely asked you to do it when she thought things are over with gun-to-head man and she had no one else, she wants her security blanket (you) but i suspect he has since come back to her with a maybe so now you are her maybe as she is waiting to see if he wants her. If he comes back with a definite NO then you may get another chance to be her plaything for the millionth time.

[Nickel Speed]

Millionth time? Not quite. This hasn't been the long term dynamic.

[ninjabib]

Ok it's not the amount of times that's important. It's more that you allow it to happen. Do you think she thinks this attractive?

[Nickel Speed]

Ok it's not the amount of times that's important. It's more that you allow it to happen. Do you think she thinks this attractive?

 

I thought long and hard before I agreed. Definitely wasn't being desperate. Was going to see what happened, plus get a free trip out of it.

 

I reckon I still see the roll I played in the breakdown of our relationship pretty well.

[bluecastle]

This hasn't been the long term dynamic.

 

Are you sure about that, Nickel?

 

She left you for this guy once, years ago, and here you are in the same spin cycle you've been in before. Had she genuinely processed and put that chapter behind her, he would not be in her life now, regardless of the state of your marriage.

 

It sounds to me that your marriage, or at least the relationship that led to marriage, was kind of built on the idea that you'd both moved forward from all this—an idea you are still clinging to, even as it's been proven false in devastating ways.

 

Or, to put it in hyper-masculine terms, I think you liked the narrative that you "won" and he "lost," and you're still looking for ways to "win." You talk a lot about being a logical thinker, but here is where I'd challenge you a bit to see that you're thinking within an illogical system, and that the longer you do that the longer you'll spend losing the thread by trying to make sense of what is senseless.

 

Your sense of identity and worth are right now connected to two people who can do nothing but chip away at both. To continue to seek value—that "win"—from those who can't provide it—well, that's the road to more spins, more drama, more pain. That is the dynamic your wife has with this man, after all. Defending someone who once put a gun to her head? Who cyber spied and stalked? There is no logic there. There is just sickness, toxicity.

 

Toxicity is contagious. It's running through you right now. The cure for it is to move away from it, not to move closer, not to engage. You sound to me like a good guy, with a good head and a good heart that got pulled into a black hole. The "win" here is seeing that, and just stepping away, not playing a game in which there are never any real winners but only losers.

[ninjabib]

Yes OP, this guy is in your families lives only because your wife wants him to be so. He has no interest in your daughter and his interest in your wife is probably low but it doesn't need to be any higher because she is highly invested in him as you are in her. You are now to your wife what she is to her lover -an option/fallback plan. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

The fact you would give her another chance suggests that you are actually very desparate or have very low standards for yourself. Neither are good.

 

There is nothing for you with this woman apart from a whole load of hurt. When will you see this? You are now handed a fantastic opportunity to start again and find someone worthy of your love and also to be a great dad for your daughter at the same time. All you seem to want to do is linger around hoping she gets rejected by a loser so she will take you back as her 2nd option. I just don't get it.

[Nickel Speed]

While all that is fine and true.

 

She is wrong in this instance, but is genuinely a good person. If she chooses, she could go to therapy and work on her emotions and mental health.

Coincidentally enough, she brought up the possibly going to therapy last night...just after changing her mind about this weekend. I discussed therapy here on the forum, but made no mention of it to her. She has arrived at that place on her own. I then told her I thought it was a good idea.

 

I'm not attempting to defend her actions which were certainly wrong. I do see that she is in a bad place and irrational (all over the place). I still can't help but think about my role in driving her back to that place or the possibility of reconciliation in the distant future.

 

However, I also don't want to put myself into that situation again. I'm logical, but torn on the decision. She's said some crazy stuff that I know was not true about our relationship to justify her actions. On the whole, I don't believe the relationship was toxic. The good far outweighed the bad for the majority of it all.

[ninjabib]

Even if you were not the best partner and lets face it none of us are perfect you still seem stuck deep in a cycle of fixing which leads to over-correction which is not good. I really hope she does get therapy because she definitely needs it but i would suggest you do so too regardless of what happens.

 

No matter what you did it doesn't excuse her cheating, she is no victim she knew exactly what she was doing. The relationship might not have been toxic but shes certainly shown that she will be if the going gets a little rough.

[Nickel Speed]

As of now, we are going to Dollywood Sunday. Wish me luck.

[boltnrun]

As of now, we are going to Dollywood Sunday. Wish me luck.

 

With your wife? Or the ex you reconnected with?

[Nickel Speed]

With your wife? Or the ex you reconnected with?

 

With the wife.

 

I'm working on my ex's motorcycle Saturday after my little girl's birthday party.

[ninjabib]

What changed her mind?

[Nickel Speed]

What changed her mind?

 

She didn't say.

 

I told her I wasn't interested in talking with her about her other relationship if I go. She did tell me she thought her other relationship is karma because everything he told her was pretty much verbatim what she told me. She still seems crushed about it.

 

Then she mentioned the Dollywood thing again with our kid. Said I could bring someone else with us as well as she has 2 extra tickets and she doesn't do roller coasters and stuff.

 

Don't know who I'd want to bring however. Noone in mind really.

[Nickel Speed]

I'm not sure at all what her angle is with this weekend. She just removed all of our wedding pictures and stuff from Facebook.

[bluecastle]

I'm just going to tell you what I'm seeing here, Nickel, which is that you are deep in a spin cycle.

 

And you'll be in that spin cycle for as long as you keep trying to figure out her "angle" on things.

 

She is emotionally unstable, so her angle is going to change by the second, and that's likely just who she is. Should she evolve, it's going to be years. So try to keep reading that angle, try to base your life on understanding it—well, it's a recipe of whiplash, more spins.

 

So, figure out YOUR angle. What do YOU want from this weekend? What are YOUR limits?

 

Operate from that place, and you'll find the spins slowing down, clarity sticking.

[ninjabib]

Shes toying with you. I've already said all this. This is all just a game for her and you are a willing participant.

 

You are going along with the intention of rekindling things. You are not going for a free trip/day out or to see how it goes. YOu want her back. She doesn't want that.

[bluecastle]

Shes toying with you. I've already said all this. This is all just a game for her and you are a willing participant.

 

You are going along with the intention of rekindling things. You are not going for a free trip/day out or to see how it goes. YOu want her back. She doesn't want that.

 

Yeah, basically.

 

I'll put it a bit differently—pushing in the sort of direction that therapy can be really good for.

 

If you can pull back the lens far enough, I think you'll see that this kind of gamesmanship has probably been the norm between you two for a good long while. Remove the current drama—the cheating, the gun-to-head dude, the disappearance of wedding photos from social media—and I'll suspect you'll find this is basically how you two "communicated."

 

Where some connect, genuinely, others play games and create complicated games. It's not conscious, not intentional. It's generally people who are driven by their egos—a statement I suspect will make you wince, since you're very fond of telling anyone here who uses the word "ego" that your own ego is NOT at play here. (Which, well, IS ego, but I'm going to avoid that spin cycle...)

 

All that said: hey, go to Dollywood. See what's what. But really see what is what, you know, not what might be up, what could be up, or what you can will to be up by staying in the game another round.

[itsallgrand]

I'm curious if you've put any more thought into pursuing full custody?

These day trips could complicate things legally, not only emotionally. Just wanted to mention that as consideration of going through with Dollywood.

She's all over the place, and so are you. I'd avoid any fast moves and lie low until you are less vulnerable emotionally. Just my opinion. In the last while, you've posted about wanting to assault that guy, seeing your exes actions as ones there are no coming back from, being excited about reconnecting with an ex, and now talking about a day trip like a happy family with your wife.

Just slow and steady is your friend right now .

[Nickel Speed]

She possibly is playing games now.

 

It's not something I do. I'm forward, direct, and honest. If I say something, it's because I truly believe it.

 

This never happened in our relationship before. I'm fairly sure of this. There was no struggle for power, no attempts to manipulate. Maybe, I'm just blind. If you ask anyone that knew us as a couple, they still can't believe our situation is real. Her best friend commented on their birthday that we were the one couple she never worried about. Etc. It wasn't just an act around friends.

 

I suspect she got bored in the relationship and that's probably the simplest way to describe it.

 

If she is playing games now, I'm genuinely not good at playing games.

 

I honestly don't know that I do want her back. My trust is shattered. I'm angry. I'm no longer depressed.

 

On the other hand, when I talk to her, it's like nothing ever happened or has changed and I am content. I was going this weekend to spend the day with her and try to figure out what I want to do. I'm not keen on getting hurt again. If we got back together, I doubt the marriage could ever be the same as it once was. Then again, it might not be a bad thing if we were both content and generally happy.

[Nickel Speed]

I'm curious if you've put any more thought into pursuing full custody?

These day trips could complicate things legally, not only emotionally. Just wanted to mention that as consideration of going through with Dollywood.

She's all over the place, and so are you. I'd avoid any fast moves and lie low until you are less vulnerable emotionally. Just my opinion. In the last while, you've posted about wanting to assault that guy, seeing your exes actions as ones there are no coming back from, being excited about reconnecting with an ex, and now talking about a day trip like a happy family with your wife.

Just slow and steady is your friend right now .

 

I'm not going to pursue full custody unless she relapses back with this guy. No need to complicate things and fight for thousands and thousands of dollars if it may be a non-issue later.

I did have the lawyer put a clause in the paperwork that our child isn't to be introduced to other spouses for a period of 6 months after the end of the divorce.. That should give a good buffer to see what's what.

 

These are all thoughts that occupy my head at the same time. They are usually just fleeting moments of insight in trying to decide what to do.

 

I do still wish to assault the guy. I wanted to assault the guy before this ever happened.. Actually, I wanted to assault this guy before he had ever met my wife if we are honest. I knew him through a mutual friend a loooooong time ago.

[Seraphim]

I think if you go anywhere you are going to get an emotional kick in the nuts.

[Nickel Speed]

I think if you go anywhere you are going to get an emotional kick in the nuts.

 

Maybe I'm a masochist and don't even know it.

[ninjabib]

I believe that you may be. I really really really recommend you look at therapy as you are letting yourself in for a world of pain.