Girlfriend was Groped by a Friend

[Wiseman2]

Agree. It's sad to see this frequent grandstanding, when someone has a personal question.

 

Also agree that aside from this, some excellent advice was given regarding following your gf's lead on this and keeping an open mind and open lines of communication.

This happens so often on these boards. Someone posts one question, or asks for advice on one thing, and pages later, people are debating all sorts of things that the OP never intended.

[catfeeder]

and (2) would you consider cutting all avoidable contact with him?

 

Asking for a behavior change can come off as either controlling or caring depending on your approach. I would wouldn't suggest asking this without explaining WHY you'd see it as an advantage TO HER.

 

The message can be, "I want you to change this for ME," versus, "Would you consider how it might be beneficial to drop social media ties with this guy as an emotional statement TO YOURSELF of reclaiming your privacy from him?

[j.man]

It is up to mothers and fathers to teach their sons to not have an expectation that a girls private parts are there for the touching or taking when they deem it. It's odd that women (in most part) don't seem to have the same expectation about a man's genitals. When is the last time we heard a woman groping a drunken, past out man?

I've woken up drunk to a woman trying to rub me stiff once. Another time, while admittedly conscious, the entire ceiling was spinning and I could maybe muster up a single degree of movement from any limb. Not a period of drinking and hookups I'm particularly proud of, but it is what it is. Even stone sober, many women have this idea that men's sex switches effectively never turn off, so there's need to test the waters or to be subtle. And many women thusly feel they can touch or initiate with a man in a way that's very... well, we'll use Jibralta's very well chosen term, "entitled." Speaking of the entitlement, how often do we see women coming here complaining about a lack of sex in their relationship when there are a multitude of factors very understandably not lending themselves to romance? How many women emotionally withdraw from a guy if he has the audacity to reject her sexual advances? It'd be interesting to see a poll on guys who have been shamed by their lady because his libido took a temporary hit.

 

Now I'm not going all MRA or anything. I'm not saying the issue by gender is proportionate or anywhere close to it, particularly when extra physical force is introduced. But as a man who's moderately attractive and who was once very sexually active, and as someone who respects the extent of women's capabilities and agency, it is hardly the case that there aren't plenty of women could and do get frustrated during what's supposed to be a hookup when the dude passes out, to where she might try to wake him up through less-than-ethical means. Or that such a woman would hop on if his eyes were glassed over but his d1ck managed to get hard. Or who just feels generally entitled. It just doesn't get mentioned for a number of reasons. If anyone read this and found themselves feeling defensive, then those reasons should be easy enough to understand.

 

Even if I think sexual assault and consent are their own universally applicable issues, I can understand and appreciate the merit behind a gendered slant. Still, I don't think comments such as the bold are necessary even within that scope.

 

And I only rant this hard because I love you.

[IAmFCA]

There are many factors that contribute to sexual transgressions. Think of change as a slow moving ship executing a turn. In the US, we HAVE experienced significant improvements.

 

At the individual level, and the OPs question, try to understand the various pressures at work, try not to judge, and at the same time, speak your mind about your own experience knowing now who did what.

 

For example, that you may not have or want to have the capacity to pretend, to be friendly etc., to her assailant. On matters totally irrelevant, make an extra effort to hear her, so acknowledge and follow the power of her words. Learning and believing in her own power may help over (a long) time.

[itsallgrand]

Alright, this turned into a societal debate that I didn't intend but that's okay as it's generated important conversation.

 

When I see her next I'll ask bring the subject back up as it's still bothering me. I've already thanked her for sharing (as she was visibly distraught rehashing it) and avoided pointing the finger at her, but I will probe a bit further. (1) What would you like to me do with this info?; and (2) would you consider cutting all avoidable contact with him?

 

Cheers

 

Yes see what she says.

 

If she's fine with how she's been managing her relationship with him, will it impact how you relate to her at all? How you feel about her?

[ThatwasThen]

Seems like "you are not entitled" should be good enough.

 

That extends to those men who desperately try to judge the validity of women's feelings on the matter.

 

Changing that to read: Those men or women who desperately try to judge the validty of women's feelings on the matter.

[abitbroken]

I've woken up drunk to a woman trying to rub me stiff once. Another time, while admittedly conscious, the entire ceiling was spinning and I could maybe muster up a single degree of movement from any limb. Not a period of drinking and hookups I'm particularly proud of, but it is what it is. Even stone sober, many women have this idea that men's sex switches effectively never turn off, so there's need to test the waters or to be subtle. And many women thusly feel they can touch or initiate with a man in a way that's very... well, we'll use Jibralta's very well chosen term, "entitled." Speaking of the entitlement, how often do we see women coming here complaining about a lack of sex in their relationship when there are a multitude of factors very understandably not lending themselves to romance? How many women emotionally withdraw from a guy if he has the audacity to reject her sexual advances? It'd be interesting to see a poll on guys who have been shamed by their lady because his libido took a temporary hit.

 

Now I'm not going all MRA or anything. I'm not saying the issue by gender is proportionate or anywhere close to it, particularly when extra physical force is introduced. But as a man who's moderately attractive and who was once very sexually active, and as someone who respects the extent of women's capabilities and agency, it is hardly the case that there aren't plenty of women could and do get frustrated during what's supposed to be a hookup when the dude passes out, to where she might try to wake him up through less-than-ethical means. Or that such a woman would hop on if his eyes were glassed over but his d1ck managed to get hard. Or who just feels generally entitled. It just doesn't get mentioned for a number of reasons. If anyone read this and found themselves feeling defensive, then those reasons should be easy enough to understand.

 

Even if I think sexual assault and consent are their own universally applicable issues, I can understand and appreciate the merit behind a gendered slant. Still, I don't think comments such as the bold are necessary even within that scope.

 

And I only rant this hard because I love you.

 

amen

 

The problem, too is that men don't speak up because they will get laughed at, other people will think "lucky you" or feel if they physically defend themselves - push her off of him, any self defensive move HE will be accused of assault. No one should assault or rape anyone- but this is why teaching boy "don't rape" is not the way to go about things

[ThatwasThen]

one word: "pfffft"

 

We all know that the proportionate amount of sexual assault is heaped upon women. We all know that there are exceptions to that but to bring that up here and to have it "amened" it is nothing less than silly IMO.

 

The Op was not in bed hoping to get laid when the man that sexually assaulted her grabbed her by the 'what Trump said'

 

Sorry, Jman, I seldom have anything negative to say about your posts but that one and the "amen" caused a "pssst"

 

It's funny that bringing up the fact that men are "afraid" to report when women are often criticized for not bringing it up... as a woman was in this very thread...

 

Teaching a boy to not have entitlement and to not be expecting that they can grab a woman IS in fact the very way to handle this so that this kind of thing doesn't happen.

[itsallgrand]

I agree.

 

I know that I am also part of the problem.

 

But what can be done?

 

How am I supposed to act?

 

Are you asking sincerely or are you being sarcastic? I just want to be sure since there's no way to pick up tone online .

 

There seems to be a lot of resistance on the board to the idea that it is wrong to interact and carry on as though as a known sexual offender has not committed a crime. This is a common sentiment in general. That we can not dare hold someone accountable for their own involvement in protecting a sexual offender ( or other forms of abusers and criminals).

[ThatwasThen]

Are you asking sincerely or are you being sarcastic? I just want to be sure since there's no way to pick up tone online .

 

There seems to be a lot of resistance on the board to the idea that it is wrong to interact and carry on as though as a known sexual offender has not committed a crime. This is a common sentiment in general. That we can not dare hold someone accountable for their own involvement in protecting a sexual offender ( or other forms of abusers and criminals).

And there we are... someone defends men for not wanting to to come forth but criticizes a woman for not wanting to. Go figure.

[Jibralta]

Are you asking sincerely or are you being sarcastic? I just want to be sure since there's no way to pick up tone online .

 

There seems to be a lot of resistance on the board to the idea that it is wrong to interact and carry on as though as a known sexual offender has not committed a crime. This is a common sentiment in general. That we can not dare hold someone accountable for their own involvement in protecting a sexual offender ( or other forms of abusers and criminals).

 

I was being sincere. And I agree with your observation.

[Jibralta]

Changing that to read: Those men or women who desperately try to judge the validty of women's feelings on the matter.

 

Fine with me.

[Goodfellas]

so as you see, you have your answer. it is NOT weird what your gf is doing.

 

This, and other posts like it, is what I came here seeking. I wanted better insight into the victims' mind and I got that (and more!) from this thread.

 

I learned it's sometimes easier to pretend it never happened and return to normalcy. I learned that victims are sometimes not believed, which causes a different issue. I learned coping mechanisms vary.

 

Thanks to all who contributed to my learning!

[Seraphim]

This, and other posts like it, is what I came here seeking. I wanted better insight into the victims' mind and I got that (and more!) from this thread.

 

I learned it's sometimes easier to pretend it never happened and return to normalcy. I learned that victims are sometimes not believed, which causes a different issue. I learned coping mechanisms vary.

 

Thanks to all who contributed to my learning!

Absolutely, women are not believed. I went to court as a 14 year old who was sexually assaulted and he walked away free and is still free to this day 37 years later despite molesting girls since 1965.

[Goodfellas]

Absolutely, women are not believed. I went to court as a 14 year old who was sexually assaulted and he walked away free and is still free to this day 37 years later despite molesting girls since 1965.

 

Sorry to hear that; thanks for sharing.

[itsallgrand]

And there we are... someone defends men for not wanting to to come forth but criticizes a woman for not wanting to. Go figure.

 

I would really appreciate if you would show me where I defended men for not wanting to come forward ? Honestly. I do not recall writing that at all, and it's certainly not how I feel.

 

I have issue with anyone regardless of gender pretending an assault didn't happen. It's fine if we disagree. I'd just like to be disagreed with what I am actually saying, if that's the case.

[ThatwasThen]

I would really appreciate if you would show me where I defended men for not wanting to come forward ? Honestly. I do not recall writing that at all, and it's certainly not how I feel.

 

I have issue with anyone regardless of gender pretending an assault didn't happen. It's fine if we disagree. I'd just like to be disagreed with what I am actually saying, if that's the case.

 

It wasn't you that defended men, itsallgrand. It was another poster who did after you first posted that you had issue with those that don't report.

 

Women were being judged for not reporting and then in comes someone justifying why a man often doesn't.

 

Sorry for confusion.

[j.man]

one word: "pfffft"

 

We all know that the proportionate amount of sexual assault is heaped upon women. We all know that there are exceptions to that but to bring that up here and to have it "amened" it is nothing less than silly IMO.

 

The Op was not in bed hoping to get laid when the man that sexually assaulted her grabbed her by the 'what Trump said'

 

Sorry, Jman, I seldom have anything negative to say about your posts but that one and the "amen" caused a "pssst"

 

It's funny that bringing up the fact that men are "afraid" to report when women are often criticized for not bringing it up... as a woman was in this very thread...

 

Teaching a boy to not have entitlement and to not be expecting that they can grab a woman IS in fact the very way to handle this so that this kind of thing doesn't happen.

I didn't just "bring it up." You were the one throwing the shade, discounting and trivializing the plight of male victims of women with your "when's the last time we heard about a woman sexually assaulting a drunk / passed out guy?" It happens, and it happens plenty. I'm not the type to just pop into a thread to post, "Well, you know... men also..." Unlike some, I don't assume a discussion on sexual assault to be a p1ssing contest between genders and their respective victimhoods simply for the person assaulted or the person having assaulted being a particular sex. But if I see someone dismissing victims and ignoring perpetrators, regardless of whether they may not be as statistically represented, then yes, I'll say something.

 

And really? "She wasn't in bed hoping to get laid?" Is that really the standard you want to set? If a woman who went out open to a one night stand any less a victim if she happens to have too much to drink before the deed could be done?

 

There's plenty in your post alone that would understandably deter men (and women, for that matter) from stepping forward, from your vocally doubting the prevalence of women who commit such acts, basing your assumption of prevalence on how often you hear about it, and a statement that is essentially what amounts to "they were asking for it." Your initial and completely unnecessary comment was bad enough. Why you decided to quadruple down on it is beyond me.

 

For the record, I've agreed with you on every other count in this thread. I happen to disagree with those who consider the person assaulted to carry any extra burden of responsibility as well, while of course hopeful we can foster an environment that best suits someone being able to report or cut an assailant out of their lives should they so choose to. It's extremely unfortunate and surprising that we seem to disagree on this matter.

[ThatwasThen]

I didn't just "bring it up." You were the one throwing the shade, discounting and trivializing the plight of male victims of women with your "when's the last time we heard about a woman sexually assaulting a drunk / passed out guy?"

I wasn't intending to trivialize it.I was attempting to highlight how different in shear incidences towards women compared to this happening to men. Women, don't seem to have the entitlement to do these sorts of things that far too many men have.

 

It happens, and it happens plenty. I'm not the type to just pop into a thread to post, "Well, you know... men also..." Unlike some, I don't assume a discussion on sexual assault to be a p1ssing contest between genders and their respective victimhoods simply for the person assaulted or the person having assaulted being a particular sex.

Maybe so, Tell us, did you report the woman that grabbed you when you were drunk? I suspect not but the poster who quoted you gave an excuse why most men don't report but in this thread women were criticized for not reporting.

 

But if I see someone dismissing victims and ignoring perpetrators, regardless of whether they may not be as statistically represented, then yes, I'll say something.

Well, that is exactly what I was doing while highlighting how men are more likely to perpetrate sexual abuse.

 

And really? "She wasn't in bed hoping to get laid?" Is that really the standard you want to set? If a woman who went out open to a one night stand any less a victim if she happens to have too much to drink before the deed could be done?

No and that wasn't my intent. You are putting words in my mouth. I implied that she was not wanting this man to touch her, she wasn't even showing him any "tells" that he may have mistaken.

 

There's plenty in your post alone that would understandably deter men (and women, for that matter) from stepping forward, from your vocally doubting the prevalence of women who commit such acts,

well I can't agree. Most of what you're saying I certainly didn't mean.

basing your assumption of prevalence on how often you hear about it, and a statement that is essentially what amounts to "they were asking for it."

What on earth are you talking about? My "assumption" meant none of that.

Your initial and completely unnecessary comment was bad enough. Why you decided to quadruple down on it is beyond me.

Well I'm sorry if you misunderstood but how you came to those conclusions is beyond me. The statement: "how many men do we hear come forward" was a comparison to the very truth that is going on now I would imagine that every woman that is a member of this forum has had some form of sexual assault happen to them. That does not negate the fact that men are abused by both men and women, not as many are abused though, surely you can see that.

 

For the record, I've agreed with you on every other count in this thread. I happen to disagree with those who consider the person assaulted to carry any extra burden of responsibility as well, while of course hopeful we can foster an environment that best suits someone being able to report or cut an assailant out of their lives should they so choose to. It's extremely unfortunate and surprising that we seem to disagree on this matter.

But we really don't. You just misunderstood my intent or I'm very poor at expressing myself (It happens).

 

My beef mostly was with the post after yours (where you quoted me) and the excuse (and amen therein) why men don't come forward and excusing why they don't while the reason women don't come forward was criticized.

 

*sighs* Our first "domestic"

[ThatwasThen]

@Goodfellas: Sorry for going off the rails there. I see that you've gotten some guidance in spite of all the noise from me.

 

I'll just leave your thread letting you know that many times it's just easier to not say anything. Hopefully with the support both woman and men have now with the #metoo movement and the publicity around it, more of us will have the strength to report each and every time we are accosted in these manners.

Hopefully teaching through sex education in our schools and at home that people are not entitled to grope others just because the urge hits them will put an end to all of it.

 

Be well.

[itsallgrand]

It wasn't you that defended men, itsallgrand. It was another poster who did after you first posted that you had issue with those that don't report.

 

Women were being judged for not reporting and then in comes someone justifying why a man often doesn't.

 

Sorry for confusion.

 

I see. Thanks for clarifying!

[abitbroken]

And there we are... someone defends men for not wanting to to come forth but criticizes a woman for not wanting to. Go figure.

 

A man not wanting/feeling safe to come forth and a woman who does not want to come forth but CONTINUES to interact with her groper "to show everything is cool" is another. She can decide not to tell her brothers, etc, and that is her right to decide to be quiet --- but If her boyfriend constantly sees her voluntarily interact on social media, etc, with them in ways that are unnecessary that would SO infuriating to watch.

[Goodfellas]

@Goodfellas: Sorry for going off the rails there. I see that you've gotten some guidance in spite of all the noise from me.

 

I'll just leave your thread letting you know that many times it's just easier to not say anything. Hopefully with the support both woman and men have now with the #metoo movement and the publicity around it, more of us will have the strength to report each and every time we are accosted in these manners.

Hopefully teaching through sex education in our schools and at home that people are not entitled to grope others just because the urge hits them will put an end to all of it.

 

Be well.

 

This.

 

Thanks for contributing.

[itsallgrand]

So what have you chosen to do, Goodfellas?

 

Are you going to look away and pretend all is fine when she continues to interact with him?

[Goodfellas]

So what have you chosen to do, Goodfellas?

 

Are you going to look away and pretend all is fine when she continues to interact with him?

 

She’s away up north on a contract so when she returns, I’ll ask her what – if anything – she’d like me to do with this information. Then, I’ll tell her I prefer she stop “acting” like all is fine whenever he posts or she sees him.