Am I being too harsh here?

[Starlight925]

Back online, after my breakup last year. NC for.....oh gosh, maybe all of 2018, don't think of him much at all anymore. Soooooo......back to the sites.

 

Just asking for a little advice:

 

On POF, a really nice-seeming guy messaged me, and he gave me his last name & phone number and asked me to look him up, to make sure I was comfortable that he was real. We had a nice messaging groove going through the site, exchanged numbers, and were to talk on the phone.

 

Tues.: He said he'd call me in the evening before 9:00 pm. No call. Got a message from him on the site at around 9:30, with apologies, as something came up with his 16 year-old daughter. I wrote back, thanking him for letting me know, with a reschedule for a call for Wed.

 

Wed: He was to be working from home all day, and I had a vacation day, so he was going to call me "sometime" during the day. Entire day/night, no call. Got a site message again, at around 9:30 pm, saying "work stuff" prevented him from calling. I wrote back, thanking him for letting me know, with a reschedule for a call on Thurs.

 

Thurs: He was to call me by 9:00 pm. No call. I had told him that I silence my phone at 9:00 pm (true). At 9:30, I got a text "Is it too late to call?", which I didn't see till the morning. I didn't respond.

 

Friday: Got a 9:30 pm text "Hi, do you have time to talk now? Very rough week with family stuff". I did not respond.

 

I'm like, dude can't even get it together to text me earlier to tell me that he can't talk each night.

 

Either he's just too busy to date, or doesn't have the common courtesy to let me know.

 

I always feel that we show our best selves earliest on. Is this what it would be like to date this guy? Always waiting for calls that never come, with lame explanations?

 

Or am I being too harsh?

[ThatwasThen]

You did the right thing as a flake is a flake: It sounds like his wife won't go to bed in time for him to speak with you

[limichelle]

Actions speak louder then words especially early on. You did the right thing.

[figureitout23]

I say take a wait and see approach.

 

While his actions are whispering he could be a potential flake. He did communicate each time he was unable to speak with you.

 

So let him come to you.

 

Also a potential issue: is this the first time you two will have spoken on the phone? Who suggested it? It’s been said a few times here by multiple people. I personally won’t talk to a guy on the phone before we meet unless I am highly interested. I just don’t have the desire to, it’s too much pressure before even seeing someone before meeting face to face. Say what you need to say face to face, theres no point prolonging meeting, I don’t want to even kinda get attached to the idea of you before I meet you. So mayyyyybe he’s a bit afraid to talk before meeting? I’m not gonna lie I’ve avoided before meet calls myself.

 

So yeah I say wait and see. Since I know how much anxiety it causes me I try to make getting to that first meet as easy as possible.

[Starlight925]

Re: who suggested talking on the phone.....he was the one who suggested it.

 

I'm one of those who doesn't care.....talk on the phone first, or go straight to the meet. Whatever sort of comes up, organically. I've done both.

 

Yeah, lol, I feel the same re: his "wife", or whoever.....someone/something is preventing him from just calling earlier in the evening, as I told him my preference.

 

I wouldn't mind, had he simply texted me earlier, and said that tonight isn't a good night, something came up, etc. But he keeps waiting until 9:30 pm, or the next day, to let me know how "sorry" he is.

 

OK, thanks guys, I feel the same way. I've removed him from my phone.

 

I know if I were reading this from another poster, I'd be saying "Next!"

[bluecastle]

Dating sites, like dating, is a minefield.

 

The way I look at it is: It's inherently uncomfortable, and we sit with as much discomfort as we can in the search for comfort. And this guy has pushed you right to the edge of your discomfort zone, maybe past it. And that's okay. You get to set that boundary.

 

I can spin an alternate narrative. I've had weeks where on Monday it seems like clear sailing ahead, and then life rears its head and I lose the thread a bit. Gathering that thread back, I'll prioritize the essentials first: work, friends, family, my inner peace. And if on Monday I was having a groovy chat with a compelling woman I knew only in pixels, by Wednesday I'll be slipping a bit. So big picture might not be as simple as "too busy to date" so much as "too busy to date at my highest level for 5 days."

 

And, also, phone calls are nervy. He's maybe a bit nervy, but he's also trying to stay connected.

 

So, yeah, I'd kind of wait and see. If possible. For as long as you can. And, if not possible, that's fine. Low investment right now, lots of options to explore.

 

Best of luck!

[figureitout23]

Oh ok. If he’s the one suggesting you talk and then continually having things come up, he’s deffinetely in flake territory. At the most block and the least keep his number deleted and if he comes around he comes around. Low investment all the way.

[Batya33]

I personally would be done whether this was a date or someone from one of my Facebook groups who wanted to make a plan to meet. Unless life/death/true emergency I'd be done. If this is his best foot forward just imagine. I truly mean this is my personal boundary based on my personal experience, how busy I was when I was dating, and the value I place on this type of reliability.

[Jibralta]

I don't think your stance is too harsh. If he doesn't have his career and "family stuff" together, how good of a partner could he be?

[Starlight925]

Ok, I just went back and re-read our POF messages to be sure. Yes, it was he who initiated the idea of a phone call.

 

Hey, better to be sitting at home waiting for a phone call that never came than to be sitting in some bar waiting for some guy who doesn't show.

 

And yes, if he can't even get his life together, 3 nights in a row, to make a phone call that he initiated, then he's too busy/too married/too flakey for moi.

 

As I'd say to any other poster.....next!

[Wiseman2]

Sat 9:31 pm: LHGirl sends a message "screw you". Only kidding.😉 No, you weren't harsh you were understandably ruling out the time wasters and flakes. By Fri he should have been planning a meet, not avoiding talking in person...again.

Friday: Got a 9:30 pm text "Hi, do you have time to talk now? Very rough week with family stuff". I did not respond.

[j.man]

What's the difference between 9:00 and 9:30? While I don't personally subscribe to needing to talk on the phone before meeting, I do understand those who do. Even so, it should just be a quick call, make sure they don't sound like an awkward mess, and schedule a date. Easily five minutes, maybe ten tops. After the first time, and especially after the second, I'd have either been like, "9:30 seems to be a better time for you" or let him know just to call anyway so long as it's within the hour.

 

But, no, I don't think you're being too harsh. No one wants or needs a hassle before so much as having met up.

[Starlight925]

What's the difference between 9:00 and 9:30?

 

There's no difference, except that he had asked when would be a good time to call, and I had said anytime of the day or early evening, up until 9:00 pm, when I silence my phone.

 

One day, he sent a text at 9:30 with apologies, but because my phone was silenced, I didn't see it till the next day. One day, I didn't hear from him at all until the following day.

 

Either way, I gave it 3 chances, so 3 strikes......he's out.

[Batya33]

What's the difference between 9:00 and 9:30? While I don't personally subscribe to needing to talk on the phone before meeting, I do understand those who do. Even so, it should just be a quick call, make sure they don't sound like an awkward mess, and schedule a date. Easily five minutes, maybe ten tops. After the first time, and especially after the second, I'd have either been like, "9:30 seems to be a better time for you" or let him know just to call anyway so long as it's within the hour.

 

But, no, I don't think you're being too harsh. No one wants or needs a hassle before so much as having met up.

 

I insisted on it for safety and 20 minutes would be more than sufficient. I too wouldn't stand on ceremony on the 9:00 thing but often there is a good reason and LH Girls is. She shuts her phone off at that time so she is not reachable. Perfectly good reason.

[j.man]

Not sure what makes 20 minutes safer than 10 minutes. But as a matter of preference or if it arbitrarily makes you feel safer, of course you should do you and her, her. In any case, her new details actually make it a bit less sympathetic. No, it's not cool that he kept falling through, but for whatever reason, this guy's professed obligations make it difficult to make it home for a phone call before 9:30. If she's telling him 9:00 is the cutoff, that's obviously why he keeps going for 9:00 rather than the more demonstrably reliable 9:30. If she is going to bed at 9:00, that's one thing. However, if it's a matter of being free of the random noise and distractions or simply being off the grid after a certain hour, which I can appreciate as someone whose phone is on silent more often than not, you can easily keep the phone on silent while editing a specific contact to still have their ring come through. Spares you from having to check every notification in case it's him and it's a minor enough concession for a one-time prelude.

 

Again, at the end of the day, it's shame on him as he should have plainly stated 9:00 for whatever reasons is most likely going to be too early for him to commit to on weeknights, but it's less offensive than it being matter of flaking when he's more or less doing his best with her stated and relatively rigid parameters. Not that she isn't entirely entitled to them. Still, banking on a 9:00 phone call when he'd previously twice in a row been hit her up with an apology at 9:30 is more than a little bit counter-intuitive. After the second offense, just let it and him go if you need someone who can reliably call before 9:00, let him know you'd be willing to break your 9:00 cutoff for the sake of an introductory call, or save it for a weekend afternoon if it's something you need to have prior to meeting. Not sure of the point in continuing to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

Regardless, the waters are muddied enough before having even shared a sip of coffee, so I think OP is making the rational choice at this point.

[Long Gone]

Hey LHGirl

 

Yeah I think you've been fair, once cancelling is understandable, but 3 times?

 

As you say... 'NEXT'.

[Batya33]

Not sure what makes 20 minutes safer than 10 minutes. But as a matter of preference or if it arbitrarily makes you feel safer, of course you should do you and her, her. In any case, her new details actually make it a bit less sympathetic. No, it's not cool that he kept falling through, but for whatever reason, this guy's professed obligations make it difficult to make it home for a phone call before 9:30. If she's telling him 9:00 is the cutoff, that's obviously why he keeps going for 9:00 rather than the more demonstrably reliable 9:30. If she is going to bed at 9:00, that's one thing. However, if it's a matter of being free of the random noise and distractions or simply being off the grid after a certain hour, which I can appreciate as someone whose phone is on silent more often than not, you can easily keep the phone on silent while editing a specific contact to still have their ring come through. Spares you from having to check every notification in case it's him and it's a minor enough concession for a one-time prelude.

 

Again, at the end of the day, it's shame on him as he should have plainly stated 9:00 for whatever reasons is most likely going to be too early for him to commit to on weeknights, but it's less offensive than it being matter of flaking when he's more or less doing his best with her stated and relatively rigid parameters. Not that she isn't entirely entitled to them. Still, banking on a 9:00 phone call when he'd previously twice in a row been hit her up with an apology at 9:30 is more than a little bit counter-intuitive. After the second offense, just let it and him go if you need someone who can reliably call before 9:00, let him know you'd be willing to break your 9:00 cutoff for the sake of an introductory call, or save it for a weekend afternoon if it's something you need to have prior to meeting. Not sure of the point in continuing to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

Regardless, the waters are muddied enough before having even shared a sip of coffee, so I think OP is making the rational choice at this point.

 

 

Not arbitrary in the least. What I wrote was that a phone call of 20 minutes was more than sufficient - and i screened for safety and I had ways of doing it that had nothing to do with interrogating or prying questions. Because of phone calls, even after exchanging emails and googling I was able to learn dealbreakers like - he forgot he'd given me his cell number (which he'd done that day or within a day) and was really angry I had it (hmmmm), he was still married, he lied about his age or education, he thought it was ok to talk to me while playing an online game, or while ordering a complicated meal, he made sexual references (which hadn't been done on email or in the profile), he was depressed, angry at the world, thought it was unusual for me to talk in a more professional way when he called me at my office, etc etc. Some of these were safety (I felt unsafe meeting someone who lied or made sexual references) and others were just dealbreakers of a different kind.

 

In one case I learned enough new info that when I googled I found it he'd been indicted for a white collar crime, and in another case since he bragged about who his ex wife was and how much younger she was than him I was able to find out he'd lied about his age. For example. I also wanted to hear the voice tone so I could discern more about potential depression, anger issues, flat affect, etc. Nothing arbitrary and the 20 minutes was because I didn't feel i should keep someone on the phone longer than that unless we were both enjoying the convo - and typically I liked to have a plan to meet by the end of the phone call. I wasn't one who had time for hours long phone calls with a stranger so even if we were enjoying the convo I'd beg off at a certain point and express how I was looking forward to meeting in person.

 

Didn't mean to hijack LHGirl. I take Jman's point about 9:00pm and cumulatively I do not think you are being too harsh.

[Starlight925]

No hijack, Batya. It all makes for interesting discussion.

 

It's not that it was a "call by 9:00, or you're outta here" type thing. It was that, 3 times in a row, he simply didn't call, as he said he would.

 

Two of the times, he texted to apologize for not having called, and once, I simply didn't hear from him at all.

 

I just happen to silence my phone every night at around 9:00. It's just what I do. So, I had asked him to call prior to 9:00. 9:10 would have been fine, as would 9:30. He simply didn't call any of these times, but rather sent a later message stating why he hadn't called.

 

In fact, if I count up all of our messages, I have more messages from him trying to explain why he didn't/couldn't call than actual communication. Had he just called, he could have saved us all this time.

 

I just figure, if he's too busy/has family issues/work issues/whatever for a simple phone call, that he asked for, three times, then....next.

[DanZee]

Well, there's a couple of things. You didn't say what he did for a living. I know when I was working 60-hour weeks, I wanted to meet someone, but eventually I had to give up because working 12, 14 and 16-hour days left me no time to socialize. He may want to meet someone but work keeps interfering. Just saying.

 

My second thing is that 9:00 pm is a pretty early phone cut-off time. That's like curfew for a pre-teen these days. Do the dates have to end by 9 pm too? It's a pretty strict rule that the phone goes off especially where you were expecting a phone call from someone.

 

I don't know, but I guess this guy isn't for you since he's not meeting up with your guidelines.

[Seraphim]

You have been fair. If people can’t get their crap together by a THIRD time that is a precursor to the future.

[katrina1980]

What's with him and 9:30? Lol

 

I mean it's actually quite funny when you think about it.

 

From what I read, despite his assertion he'd call you by 9:00 pm, FOUR times he either messaged or called at 9:30!

 

One day he had the entire day to call, the *entire* day!!

 

Yet he called you at exactly 9:30! Knowing you shut your phone off at 9:00.

 

That alone would weird me out, the guy is shady LHG, you did the smart thing.

[Batya33]

Well, there's a couple of things. You didn't say what he did for a living. I know when I was working 60-hour weeks, I wanted to meet someone, but eventually I had to give up because working 12, 14 and 16-hour days left me no time to socialize. He may want to meet someone but work keeps interfering. Just saying.

 

My second thing is that 9:00 pm is a pretty early phone cut-off time. That's like curfew for a pre-teen these days. Do the dates have to end by 9 pm too? It's a pretty strict rule that the phone goes off especially where you were expecting a phone call from someone.

 

I don't know, but I guess this guy isn't for you since he's not meeting up with your guidelines.

 

I worked more than 60 hour weeks regularly plus unpredictable hours and I think if you're serious about dating and post a profile you have to be able to step up to the plate. And if you can't that's fine but you know that before 3 times of missing a call.

[Jibralta]

He's fishing for someone who will take his crap. That's my suspicion.

[Starlight925]

He has a 9-5 job, fairly close to his home.

 

It’s irrelevant, though, because he asked for a good time to call, and I told him, and he said great, that he’d call. 3 times.

 

If 9:00 pm was too early, then the onus was on him to say so.

 

If he had said he needed 10:00 pm, I’d have said fine. He did not.

 

Yes, 9:00 pm is early. I get it. I’ve never had a guy who had a problem with it. I get up early and some days I drive 250 miles. I needs my sleep.

[Long Gone]

 

Yes, 9:00 pm is early. I get it. I’ve never had a guy who had a problem with it. I get up early and some days I drive 250 miles. I needs my sleep.

 

I wish I had your discipline! I go to bed far late sometimes with an early rise. No reasonable guy would have an issue with this.