I don't want a divorce

[CatsMeeoow]

I see your point - guilty.

 

I was worried due to his lack of sleep and driving but I recognize that I did burden him with talk about his being distant.

[CatsMeeoow]

Why doesn't he have days off? You may have mentioned it, but I missed it.

 

He is convinced that he if works non-stop 2 items of debt can be paid off.

 

He is killing himself. We will get the debt paid off - its in the budget but he wants it paid off NOW.

 

In my head he thinks he will pay it off in 2 months leaving him free to leave me without guilt. In the past when I have mentioned that to him he almost gets angry/frustrated and says not necessarily. He is hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. If things get paid off and our marriage works out - great, if not he is not feel obligated by debt.

[CatsMeeoow]

Sadly, you are grasping at straws because you are terrified of being alone. Even the therapist saw that he is miserable and checked out. At this point you merely coexist.

 

I see your point. I've had male friends tell me that wearing his ring is a big deal and that those statements I made area the positives and that he clearly hasn't made up his mind yet.

 

I'm not terrified of being alone. I was alone for years as a single mother raising a child mostly alone. I see the mistakes I made in the marriage. I really do love my husband and I took my vows seriously. He will tell it it used to be so great - I have faith it can be great again.

 

But, you are right. I'm straw grasping. Anything short of he is wanting to stay and make this work is me just wearing sunglasses.

[Seraphim]

But sweetheart , HE has to think it can be great again and you can’t make him think that. If he wanted to do that do you think he would be busting his buns to work to pay stuff ? No, he wants out. Everything he has done and said indicates he wants out .

 

It’s sad but that’s what I truly think . I think anything else is delaying the inevitable .

[CatsMeeoow]

But sweetheart , HE has to think it can be great again and you can’t make him think that. If he wanted to do that do you think he would be busting his buns to work to pay stuff ? No, he wants out. Everything he has done and said indicates he wants out .

 

It’s sad but that’s what I truly think . I think anything else is delaying the inevitable .

 

It think working to pay the debt down gives him a focus and keeps him from being at the house with me. He even talked today of 1st paying this, 2nd this, and once that is done get either his vehicle or my my vehicle paid off.

 

I know he wants to live more simply. He wants to garden more (our house has too many trees and not enough sunlight for gardening). Our current home isn't meeting his needs. He feels that I won't leave this home so he feels trapped. I tried for months telling him its a structure and a thing and I am not married to the house.

 

I want to show him that I support these things that he wants/needs and I've been trying to do so. I know I have made mistakes in coming on too strong. He has said at times I was smothering him with my attention/affection recently. I have tried very hard to back off and give space. I'm venting elsewhere and not to him.

 

I really wanted to save my marriage but I guess that is not possible.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you persistently do what's best for YOU. What you imagine what he wants. He wants out. He is paying off things in preparation for his departure and new happy life without you.

he feels trapped.He has said at times I was smothering him with my attention/affection recently.

[Unreasonable]

Sounds like he has "Walkaway husband Syndrome"

 

 

Watch this. See if it sounds familiar to you. I know this talks about "the wife", but I think you flipped the usual script here. Just flip "he" with "she" and "emotional" with "physical".

 

Usually guys aren't the ones doing the "hey, let's go to counselling" stuff. The fact that he asked for that 4 years ago and you blew him off leads me to believe going now is about 3 years too late.

 

I was in the exact same situation as you, except I didn't wait as long (and my wife ended up having an emotional affair - if your husband hasn't yet I would be surprised). I am of the belief that, unless a spouse has fallen in love with someone else, there is a possibility of salvaging things. A slim possibility, especially after all this time, but a possibility nonetheless.

 

Anyway, the creator of this video also has written some books that I found useful, which are in the description of this video. If you haven't checked them out, I would.

[journeynow]

I tried for months telling him its a structure and a thing and I am not married to the house.

 

I want to show him that I support these things that he wants/needs and I've been trying to do so.

...I really wanted to save my marriage but I guess that is not possible.

 

You are still married, and if you still want it you don't need to throw in the towel, but you don't need to cling or overthink it either.

 

Sounds like you would consider relocating. Instead of discussing it and waiting for him to make a choice, what about you quietly exploring other living options? Look at smaller houses, garden plots, community gardens, and look in a wide area between where you are now and where he works, and where his community and relatives are. You don't have to decide anything, but explore and have fun doing so. Find possibilities that work for you AND could work for him. He is too busy, too overwhelmed, too burned out to explore those options with you, but if you get some momentum going on your own (and would be fine and happy whatever the outcome) then he may be able to join you there emotionally down the road. It's a thought, anyway. I know when I am overwhelmed, anyone needing anything from me (even a simple discussion or opinion) triggers avoidance in me.

[Wiseman2]

If you sell your house and buy one together will it become marital property? Don't do this. You can't buy love with houses, gardens, etc. All that will happen is on top of being divorced, you may have to move out into an apt. So then you have no marriage AND no home of your own.

He wants to garden more (our house has too many trees and not enough sunlight for gardening). Our current home isn't meeting his needs.

[lostandhurt]

Remember what I said about approaching a deer? So when he showed some signs of interest in coming closer to you it triggered hope in you that he was beginning to come around so you reached out the next time and spooked him.

 

Take each day as it comes. If he is in a good mood and talkative and hugs you then enjoy it but DO NOT expect it the next time. Let him find his way back to you on his terms, not yours. It took a while to get here and it will take a while to come back from all this.

 

Keep it light and easy and truly give him space. No texts, no asking why are you so silent all of a sudden, no touching without asking (would you like me to rub your shoulders?) Forcing someone to forgive you never works, you have to let it happen.

 

So right now your actions will be doing ALL of the talking so be mindful of them. Does he take his lunch to work? If so do you make it for him?

 

It sounds like this guy works his butt off with very little time to decompress which is not healthy and will make matters worse when trying to work things out. Make his life as easy as possible and the house as drama free as possible. The last thing you want is for him to dread the drive home thinking the whole way that he is going to have to deal with you and all your questions and concerned looks. Keep it light and relaxed.

 

He is still there, he has shown some small signs that are good so slow way down and show him you are serious about being the wife you said you would be.

 

Lost

[Unreasonable]

He is still there, he has shown some small signs that are good so slow way down and show him you are serious about being the wife you said you would be.

I agree. Work off the assumption that he believes all these overtures you are making are just bandaids you'll be doing for a few weeks to lull him into complacency. Take it slow, and be consistent. Obviously, you can never slide back into your old ways. Never.

[CatsMeeoow]

If you sell your house and buy one together will it become marital property? Don't do this. You can't buy love with houses, gardens, etc. All that will happen is on top of being divorced, you may have to move out into an apt. So then you have no marriage AND no home of your own.

 

He does think about "us" moving. He was very interested when I let him know of potential job opportunities in the town he works in. Days later he asked more questions about those jobs but I told him I couldn't answer specifics because when it comes to this type of employment details are only given during interviews and those actively seeking the position. I was not the one to bring this up - it was all him.

 

Other times he just wants to stop the commute and has discussed having a home in the town he lives him and coming home to me on the weekends. I did not bring this up - it was all him.

 

Yet other times he says if he moves it is to get away from me.

 

What he states he does not want is for me to commute. He won't allow me to move with him and then drive daily to my job. He assumes that the commute will be a burden to me (my bff drives 2hr everyday to her job and LOVE it so not everyone ticks the same.) I could also modify my work to only driving 3-4 days a week rather than the 5-7 that he does. So he even let the thought in his head that I would not be working if we moved - I won't let him be the soul money maker cause that's not fair to him.

 

This all says to me he doesn't know what he wants other than 1) he wants to live more simply, 2) be able to provide more of his needs - like gardening, hunting and fishing. It seems like he hasn't made up his mind. But, I have pushed rather than give him space. At times he has felt I wanted and answer right then and now (let's face it living with the idea of maybe he stays maybe he goes is stressful.) He told me I was pushing him away. That I didn't give him the space that he needed. Maybe I have made it too late? Maybe he just needs some space?

[Wiseman2]

This is also a great solution:

has discussed having a home in the town he lives him and coming home to me on the weekends. I did not bring this up - it was all him.

[CatsMeeoow]

Remember what I said about approaching a deer? So when he showed some signs of interest in coming closer to you it triggered hope in you that he was beginning to come around so you reached out the next time and spooked him.

Take each day as it comes. If he is in a good mood and talkative and hugs you then enjoy it but DO NOT expect it the next time. Let him find his way back to you on his terms, not yours. It took a while to get here and it will take a while to come back from all this.

Lost

 

That's a good reminder - he may reach out to me one day and the next head out without glancing. I will try to not take it personally and that it doesn't mean that the ground I've gained the day before is gone.

 

And, you are right. He even said when he was more open to me and before I pushed him away with constant contact of trying to make up for lost time... "its going to take awhile."

 

A few weeks ago I would text and talk to him more often on his way to and from work or at slow times at work and he would say "I'm confused, you never do this. I don't know what to think." I would reply with "I know" and "that I see my mistakes and I want to make up for lost time"

 

But, I made all the classic mistakes. I panicked. I called too much and even though I didn't want to get suckered into talking about the relationship - there it was. We were talking about it again. And, with that I just pushed him farther away. I stopped that but its been pointed out that I'm still making those mistakes when I called worried that he was so distant one evening AND when I texted about new tour dates for Chicago were released (that was our first date... I wasn't even interested in him when we went out. But, he had me hooked by the second date!)

 

I hate that he is working 24/7. He feels pushed to get out of some financial obligations - a big one was his call. He feels overwhelmed with the debt we currently have though it is completely manageable it weighs on him. He works hard for me and our kids - his 2 and my 1. I have always appreciated his support but somehow I stopped showing him??? How could I have been so lazy?

 

Because he commutes I have always taken it upon myself to keep an immaculate home. Laundry, cooking, dishes, errands were all my responsibilities, but he still helps. He came home yesterday and shoveled the drive. I said thank you and I appreciate it but he wouldn't even look my way. I know he is exhausted. I've begged that he stop the overtime work but while he will take off this weekend he thinks he is going to work another 3... :-(

[CatsMeeoow]

This is also a great solution:

 

It is but it leads back to- maintaining two houses are further dividing our financial resources. He wants to cut down debt and be able to have money to go on an elk hunt ($7k). I wouldn't mind if he had an apt or a room to rent truly. I know he wants his own space to garden but I think ultimately it goes that how can we afford two separate houses? I think he sees this too which just further causes frustration.

 

He has said he would feel terribly guilty or trapped if he asked me give up everything here and move with him because what if it doesn't work out - where would I go?

 

So all these thoughts are going through his head because he is just so burnt out on the commute he needs it to be over yet he doesn't have the answer either.

[Seraphim]

That is why a trial separation might be good . That way he can make a decision as to what he wants.

[lostandhurt]

Most trial separations end in divorce so if he can stay in the house that would be best. It seems logical that he would be on his own and miss you and the family life and change his mind but most of the time it just makes it easier for that person to end it because they have a pre setup place to live.

 

Is there a way you can add a part time job to your schedule for a little extra cash? Even a few hours on weekends would show him you are willing to help reduce the debt or save for his hunting trip. BTW my neighbor just brought over some elk stakes, ground elk, elk Italian sausage. Grilling the steaks Saturday!

 

Your actions will speak volumes to him.

 

Hang in there

 

Lost

[CatsMeeoow]

Most trial separations end in divorce so if he can stay in the house that would be best. It seems logical that he would be on his own and miss you and the family life and change his mind but most of the time it just makes it easier for that person to end it because they have a pre setup place to live.

 

Is there a way you can add a part time job to your schedule for a little extra cash? Even a few hours on weekends would show him you are willing to help reduce the debt or save for his hunting trip. BTW my neighbor just brought over some elk stakes, ground elk, elk Italian sausage. Grilling the steaks Saturday!

 

Your actions will speak volumes to him.

 

Hang in there

 

Lost

 

I have been stashing money away for a year now for his "dream" trip. When we sat the other week and just looked at what they cost I mentioned that. He angrily said I'm not interested in what you have saved. I didn't say anything and I tried not to take it personal.

 

He is convinced that we have too many differences. But, those are the same differences that brought us together. I thought he went out fishing to have "alone" time and be away from me for an afternoon. I'm not into hunting but I do support him. He gets to go whenever he wants.

 

I did make a terrible terrible error when at one point I stated he couldn't have a "trophy" in the house. I mean I work on saving animals and while humane hunting is not something that bothers me it just felt odd. I've made peace with it and hoped and prayed he got a "trophy" this year so I could prove to him it could be in the house. At one point he wanted to butcher his own deer --- all I could see was the mess I would have to deal with and said I preferred to pay the butcher because it comes back in nice neat packages labeled and ready for the freezer. I have since apologized and realized I was holding him back from growth in who he was. I said by all means you should be butchering your own deer because its your passion.

 

He thinks I want him to be something he is not - I don't. I enjoy my husband for the sportsman he is but its just one more notch on the belt where I wasn't meeting his needs so all these other smaller issues weigh down and compound the problem.

 

So he is angry that I have money put back? He doesn't trust that I did this for him? He is upset that I am taking steps to make his dream a reality - taking over?

 

He stated that feels betrayed. He sees all the changes in me and that I clearly could have been this way all along but I chose not to - I try to say that I wasn't deliberately hurting him on my end and I didn't fully understand how these actions left him feeling rejected. He replies he told me and it was a choice on my part to ignore. I understand the latter is his feelings and they should be validated. Honestly, I never meant to hurt my husband like this.

[abitbroken]

It think working to pay the debt down gives him a focus and keeps him from being at the house with me. He even talked today of 1st paying this, 2nd this, and once that is done get either his vehicle or my my vehicle paid off.

 

I know he wants to live more simply. He wants to garden more (our house has too many trees and not enough sunlight for gardening). Our current home isn't meeting his needs. He feels that I won't leave this home so he feels trapped. I tried for months telling him its a structure and a thing and I am not married to the house.

 

I want to show him that I support these things that he wants/needs and I've been trying to do so. I know I have made mistakes in coming on too strong. He has said at times I was smothering him with my attention/affection recently. I have tried very hard to back off and give space. I'm venting elsewhere and not to him.

 

I really wanted to save my marriage but I guess that is not possible.

 

Was this your house yours before you married and he moved into?

[abitbroken]

I have been stashing money away for a year now for his "dream" trip. When we sat the other week and just looked at what they cost I mentioned that. He angrily said I'm not interested in what you have saved. I didn't say anything and I tried not to take it personal.

 

Here's is the thing --- he sees himself busting himself to pay off debt, and his wife is stashing money away for a trip he no longer wants to take. There is no partnership in that -- unless you decided as a couple to do that with the money. It makes more sense for you to throw money at the car that you need to pay off. Because if you do stay together and are debt free -- he'll have more time off of work, and you will be able to start to breathe and think about travel if that is in the cards.

 

I think you need to be willing to let him lead just a little right now. That goes for letting him open up and accept affection without having that affection mean you 'earned" a serious relationship talk. That goes for not throwing spaghetti against the wall about trips he wanted to take but you didn't. He knows about the work trip. Its on his radar. If he decides to go, he will go. But don't say a peep about it for the rest of the month. When is the deadline for him to be included from a practical standpoint? If its may 1st, don't bring it up again until its April. Let him bring it up.

 

If you can cool it for a little while, you might get a little better results.

[CatsMeeoow]

Was this your house yours before you married and he moved into?

 

Yes - it was "my" house.

 

We were married and I had step kids and I hated that they referred to it as "CatsMeeow's" house and not their dad's house. Even his own mother would call it "my" house and not "our" house. She would ask the kids "are you going to CatsMeeoow's this weekend?" rather than saying "are they going to their dad's."

 

I wanted my husband and his kids to feel like they belonged - I put his name on the deed.

 

I had agreed to move to his city once my son graduated from high school - now just 2yr away. I think he could sense I was dragging my feet and not talking about because honestly I'm going to be the typical mom who struggles with empty nest. Our first one (my step son) is already transitioning to adult life and moving on. The two younger ones have only 2yr left. My husband talks about not being able to get them out soon enough and I always reminded him of how difficult a transition that will be for me and not to rush it and to be understanding. He got frustrated because I hadn't told my son that once he was on to college we would not be living in this house any longer. Part of me didn't feel that was something to burden a teenager with and part of me thought he might change his mind. Afterall he had planned to retire in just 8yr from now. I just wasn't able to discuss what the next move would be and where. Its not that I didn't want to do it for him but it just made the kids up and leaving all too real. I don't think he understood my feelings or understood that my lack of discussing it wasn't because I wasn't willing.

[CatsMeeoow]

Here's is the thing --- he sees himself busting himself to pay off debt, and his wife is stashing money away for a trip he no longer wants to take. There is no partnership in that -- unless you decided as a couple to do that with the money. It makes more sense for you to throw money at the car that you need to pay off. Because if you do stay together and are debt free -- he'll have more time off of work, and you will be able to start to breathe and think about travel if that is in the cards.

 

If you can cool it for a little while, you might get a little better results.

 

This I can totally get. Yes, it doesn't make sense to put money back if right now he wants to pay down things. He still wants the trip but I think he wants it on his terms perhaps? I've been letting him take the lead. Up until a month ago I was in charge of all the finances and accounts. He set it up that way and was happy for the longest time. As he has made more money we just increased our lifestyle... slowly... he was equally responsible. He feels trapped by it suddenly and I agree. We sit at least once a week and I let him dictate what is to be done. I try not to contradict but sometimes he doesn't realize all the "little" expenses that add up and need to be paid or that this month we have to get the vehicles plated, or our auto insurance premium is due.

 

He came home to day expecting to completely pay off a $2k debt with extra money to throw at another debt and still pay all the monthly bills. I get on and see what his paycheck is and I have to question him on how this is going to get done. He gets angry and thinks I'm mismanaging money but once he looks again at his pay statement he actually looked at the gross amount - before taxes, child support, insurance and union dues. So yeah - I got to be one the to burst the bubble that he isn't getting ALL that money and the $2k debt will be paid down but now off.

 

Tomorrow am is our next "bill" date... lol. I'm willing to let him take the lead and I am learning not to expect anything in return if he does open up a little about this or that. I've definitely had some hiccups along the way. I am trying to learn and not keep making the same mistakes!

[Seraphim]

Let him figure out how to pay all the bills. Don’t even discuss it. It seems like you even talk and he is mad . Let him figure it out on his own and make his own mistakes . Don’t even say a word .

 

Actually the more you say about him the less sympathy I have for him. Really.

[CatsMeeoow]

So the bill paying discussion was stressful and led to some conflict. No yelling. No crying. We are just coming at it from two different places.

 

It led to other discussions.

 

If I was serious about looking for another job (which I have been working on resume' but very slowly) I would have done it all ready. He made it sound like it was too little too late.

 

Then he went on a course that he has said before. He said his needs were not being met so he couldn't meet mine. He doesn't like/love himself so how could he possibly love me. He talks about maybe he won't be here (with me) next year but who knows he doesn't have a crystal ball.

 

I tried to float out ideas like does it have to be all or nothing? Can we find a home where we split the commute? Or does it have to be going to just his city. Then he would make statements like - so you just want to continue this cohabitation? Without getting emotional and remaining calm and not angry I just stated that I still wanted this marriage. It was still important to me. I see that the stress of the drive and all these hours at work is not good for him or for us and I just don't want it anymore. If it means downsizing then we downsize.

 

A part of the issue is my step son is now 18 and is not coming over for visitation. In a few months he will be in the military - his dad served. My husband doesn't want this for his son and wanted college but college just isn't an option for him due to the choices he made. Anyway he is not seen or called his son in weeks. I've been in text contact with him and trying to get him over for a Sunday dinner. My husband thinks he isn't here because he hates this house or he hates me but my step isn't here because he is 18yr and is a typical selfish teenager. He is more preoccupied with his friends than coming to our home for family dinner. I'm trying to let my husband know is this is normal behavior for an 18yr old. I've tried to get my husband to call him up and take him to dinner. That kid won't say no to food. He hasn't spoken much to his son in a month. I know that cuts. It just adds to his sadness.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately he's right. There is gross incompatibility and there have been rocky times from the beginning with his kids, his mother, his kids mother, etc. it's amazing he didn't walk out for good when he's "working 24/7 to pay down debt" and you are hiding money? This isn't about elks and deer, it's about you being passive aggressive about the whole thing. He's also right that "you want him to be something he is not" .

He is convinced that we have too many differences. he is angry that I have money put back? He doesn't trust that I did this for him? I try to say that I wasn't deliberately hurting him on my end and I didn't fully understand how these actions left him feeling rejected. He replies he told me and it was a choice on my part to ignore.