I don't want a divorce

[CatsMeeoow]

Unfortunately he's right. There is gross incompatibility and there have been rocky times from the beginning with his kids, his mother, his kids mother, etc. it's amazing he didn't walk out for good when he's "working 24/7 to pay down debt" and you are hiding money? This isn't about elks and deer, it's about you being passive aggressive about the whole thing. He's also right that "you want him to be something he is not" .

 

I did become very controlling about the finances. Its something he wanted me to do in the beginning. He gave me access to everything and rarely looked to see how much money he brought home. After years of being solely responsible I have always wanted him to join me in knowing what was going on but I'm not perfect. I have felt judged about things and perhaps a bit defensive as I open up to him and try to work more as a team so we are both accountable. He still makes the mistake of asking if he can get X, Y or Z and I remind him he knows what our bills are and its for him to decide he needs to get and can get X, Y or Z.

 

The money I've been "hiding" is his. He gets a very small payment $133/mo for the last 2yr. That money goes into the joint account and I've pulled it out every month in a separate savings account. He can see the money - he can log onto the accounts or pull it up in Quicken. When he asks about the money in that account I tell him what it is - I've been putting it back for something he that wants. I will not spend it or put it toward any household debt. So while I say I've been stashing it back its been completely in the open all this time.

 

I've always talked about the money and whats being paid. I think he stopped thinking about what he was spending. I just had to come up with a way to cover the bills - which I always did. We don't carry credit card debt from month to month and the only interest we pay is on the vehicles and house.

 

We really don't have debt - that's the crazy part. He is feeling stressed from a poor choice he made 2yr ago with buying into a timeshare. I didn't want it but I felt like I was always telling him no so when he said its what he wanted I went along. It was the worst financial decision we have ever made. I had to come home and find another $600/mo in our budget that doesn't end. We used it once and he was highly dissatisfied with it. It is incredibly hard to get out of a timeshare. He will admit it was his decision but the $12k we still owe and the annual $700 fee is what he is working to get away from.

 

I agree we should downsize. That would leave more money for "toys" and fun times but we are not lacking for vacations. For a family of 5 we went to a Beaches resort in Jamacia $18K, we went as a family of 5 to Hawaii for a week, $20k. These were vacations that he wanted - we went. They were paid off and not financed.

 

I'm not sure that I'm wanting my husband to be something he is not - he has desired something and I've supported him. Going back to school. It was rough but I stepped in to do whatever so he could accomplish this. His biggest regret in life is not finishing his military career. I supported him to do what needed to be done - there were obstacles of his not mine. It still is heavy on his mind and if he wanted to see if he could correct the steps and finish I wouldn't dream of holding him back and never have.

 

I have made mistakes in my marriage. I was not a perfect wife. But, he will tell you that at one point it was good, it was very very good. He happily drove 2hr a day just to be with me.

 

Is it fixable? I do not know.

[Wiseman2]

It's remarkable he trusts you.

[journeynow]

I work outside the home. I was on my own for years before him. I think he knows this will devastate me and he wants to be sure there is good financial footing for both of us. The house is mine.

 

Yes - it was "my" house.

 

We were married and I had step kids and I hated that they referred to it as "CatsMeeow's" house and not their dad's house....

 

I wanted my husband and his kids to feel like they belonged - I put his name on the deed.

 

These posts are contradictory. If his name is on the deed the house belongs to both of you.

[journeynow]

We really don't have debt - that's the crazy part.

 

But you do have debt.

[Wiseman2]

Agree, it's very confusing when post after post contradicts itself.

These posts are contradictory.

[journeynow]

He is feeling stressed from a poor choice he made 2yr ago with buying into a timeshare. I didn't want it but I felt like I was always telling him no so when he said its what he wanted I went along. It was the worst financial decision we have ever made. I had to come home and find another $600/mo in our budget that doesn't end. We used it once and he was highly dissatisfied with it. It is incredibly hard to get out of a timeshare. He will admit it was his decision but the $12k we still owe and the annual $700 fee is what he is working to get away from.

I agree we should downsize. That would leave more money for "toys" and fun times but we are not lacking for vacations. For a family of 5 we went to a Beaches resort in Jamacia $18K, we went as a family of 5 to Hawaii for a week, $20k. These were vacations that he wanted - we went. They were paid off and not financed.

 

I really don't get this, but then, I'm uncomfortable with carrying debt. It's great to "want" things, but if you don't make hard choices about priorities early on, you end up feeling the burden later. Maybe financial coaching for you two as a couple is a path that would have positive results for your relationship and his happiness? (I'd think if we paid into a time-share and still owed on it, that is where we'd be going on our family vacations.)

[CatsMeeoow]

Agree, it's very confusing when post after post contradicts itself.

 

I put his name on the property deed for reasons I outlined and if something should happen to me he would not be homeless with his kids. He says the house is mine. The mortgage and taxes are in my name. If he leaves he will remove his name from the deed.

[Seraphim]

Personally, I don’t think this is all your fault. He made some pretty piss poor decisions too. And yet it’s all coming down on your backside .

 

I see too much emotional abuse going on here on his end.

[Wiseman2]

I really hope you two invest in accountants, financial planners, attorneys and folks who could explain better ways to manage so you are not at each other's throats or resort to being sneaky and hiding his money. You really need professional financial and trust/estate attorneys advice and advice just about anything that has to do with finances.

I put his name on the property deed for reasons I outlined and if something should happen to me he would not be homeless with his kids. He says the house is mine. The mortgage and taxes are in my name. If he leaves he will remove his name from the deed.

[CatsMeeoow]

I really don't get this, but then, I'm uncomfortable with carrying debt. It's great to "want" things, but if you don't make hard choices about priorities early on, you end up feeling the burden later. Maybe financial coaching for you two as a couple is a path that would have positive results for your relationship and his happiness? (I'd think if we paid into a time-share and still owed on it, that is where we'd be going on our family vacations.)

 

We did use the time share in Hawaii. My husband was not pleased with it. He realizes it was a bad decision that we are stuck with. He wants it gone. We are not financing the vacations outside of this - we paid for everything prior and within 30 days of our return.

 

I'm uncomfortable with debt as well and we always pay on our bills on time. We never pay any interest or late fees. Beyond the time share we carry no debt outside the house and two vehicles that are getting paid off.

 

In our seven years of marriage we have managed to get $275K into retirement accounts and have an emergency fund of $12k. My husband recently had a weather related vehicle accident and we won't be scrounging to pay the deductible. We won't be set back.

[Seraphim]

The point is though he was perfectly happy with this arrangement when he was happy and now that he isn’t everything is her fault ? BS. And when you’re married it is not “ his money “ . She also put his name on her house. What I see here is a guy who felt his needs were not met and he is now going to emotionally trash and abuse her for everything wrong in his life because he is “ mad “.

[CatsMeeoow]

The point is though he was perfectly happy with this arrangement when he was happy and now that he isn’t everything is her fault ? BS. And when you’re married it is not “ his money “ . She also put his name on her house. What I see here is a guy who felt his needs were not met and he is now going to emotionally trash and abuse her for everything wrong in his life because he is “ mad “.

 

I do see what you are saying. I know that I'm not 100% at fault. I do know that I made mistakes and the biggest was being neglectful of my husband's deepest need - physical touch. No, not just sex. The casual touching/hand holding, a soft touch to the back or massage the top of his head, etc. Life got hetic. Jobs, being on different shifts, kids, I just got overwhelmed but wanted to handle it all. It got to the point that shrugged off when he came by to rub my shoulders in the morning or he got home early and want to climb into bed and wrap his arms around me I would beg him to leave me alone so I could sleep 20more minutes.

 

Gosh - how terrible of me!!!! I mean I always wanted to cuddle and be close when I got home in the evening but that was his morning and he just wanted to focus on going to work... he comes home and wants cuddle time but that's my morning and I'm trying to figure out how to get through my day, get home and get dinner ready before he leaves again. Of course if someone would have shown me a glimpse of what would happen and of how my actions stung him like the worst rejection ever I would have stopped dead in my tracks. I have apologized and no I don't feel that it will make it better immediately. I have said I cannot undo the past but I see what happened and I'm understanding why and I don't choose that for my future. I know he is afraid to trust that I would not hurt him again.

 

Just this morning my husband is mentioning how he wants a body like the actor (can't remember) and he started showing me pictures. I was like 'eh. I was frank and told him that I don't lust or fantasize about men - or have any celebrity crushes because I'm completely attracted to my husband. His response was "why did you reject me so much"? I really don't know. I didn't think I was "rejecting" him. I do see it these days from his point of view. I know he is unable right now to see it from mine.

 

My husband has says he doesn't like/love himself right now. A good friend passed away from cancer and he found out a week later. Another friend has cancer. He went from conversations about what this guy has and that guy has - trying to keep up with the Jones, to wanting a new boat, new motorcycle, new sportscar to now just wanting to live and make the most of today and not think about the future. Of course I'm worried that my husband may be depressed or having some sort of mid-life crisis.

 

He is still here. He is still dreaming/thinking about what a life would be like without me. He is still here. Everything I've read said we have a better chance of working it out if he is still here. I need to give him space to figure it out and stop adding pressure. We just started doing finances together a few weeks ago. Its going to take some time to blend my way of doing things and his vision of doing things to come up with our vision. Outside of that its fairly calm. We are not yelling. There is no name calling. Hitting below the belt. Both of those things would pop up from time to time a year ago. I think we are learning how to disagree and still be respectful - that is a step in the right direction.

 

I am emotionally hurt by his revelations but he is being honest. And, now its out in the open.

[CatsMeeoow]

I really hope you two invest in accountants, financial planners, attorneys and folks who could explain better ways to manage so you are not at each other's throats or resort to being sneaky and hiding his money. You really need professional financial and trust/estate attorneys advice and advice just about anything that has to do with finances.

 

We have a financial advisor. My husband wants to retire at 56 (12yr away). The financial advisor said he may need to work until 60 and that we should have our house paid off before retirement. That's why when interest levels dropped drastically again I refinanced the house to have it paid off in 12yr from now. Payment was the same amount as before but now we pay much less interest and more to principle.

 

My husband is angry that we spend so much on house payment - $1300/mo but that includes some high property taxes and insurance. My husband rants that I listen to everyone else - meaning our "financial advisor" and I don't listen to my husband.

 

I'm 100% certain that if I hadn't dropped the ball and become neglectful of husband needs that he wouldn't be "angry" over all these knit pick things. Its just when he felt rejected by the one person who was supposed to love him and support him, you start to see holes in everything.

[Seraphim]

We have a financial advisor. My husband wants to retire at 56 (12yr away). The financial advisor said he may need to work until 60 and that we should have our house paid off before retirement. That's why when interest levels dropped drastically again I refinanced the house to have it paid off in 12yr from now. Payment was the same amount as before but now we pay much less interest and more to principle.

 

My husband is angry that we spend so much on house payment - $1300/mo but that includes some high property taxes and insurance. My husband rants that I listen to everyone else - meaning our "financial advisor" and I don't listen to my husband.

 

I'm 100% certain that if I hadn't dropped the ball and become neglectful of husband needs that he wouldn't be "angry" over all these knit pick things. Its just when he felt rejected by the one person who was supposed to love him and support him, you start to see holes in everything.

 

Basically I would tell him I’ll start listening to you about finances when you become a financial advisor .

[CatsMeeoow]

Basically I would tell him I’ll start listening to you about finances when you become a financial advisor .

 

I do get frustrated but now is not the time to argue that point. Our issue isn't the financial advisor. The other day he wanted to start an argument over a can of garbanzo beans in the pantry... I was smart enough to know it had nothing to do with beans. He has a lot of anger and its spilling over into little petty things. Once I realized that, I stopped engaging and just let him rant. Once he realized that I wasn't going there he's been more calm. There will be a time to maturely discuss his issues with the financial advisor but its not now. :-)

 

Today was a good day!!!!! Despite the friction with the earlier finance talk he has really been open to talking. He even asked what I did today after he went to bed... yeah!!! Interest and small talk. :-) I kept my distance after getting him up for work and he still left without giving a hug but we were on good terms. Today was indeed a good day. Now I must not ruin it by contacting him. I need to remember to give him space and realize that just because today was good does not mean tomorrow will be great or even good. One step at a time.

[abitbroken]

Today was indeed a good day. Now I must not ruin it by contacting him. I need to remember to give him space and realize that just because today was good does not mean tomorrow will be great or even good. One step at a time.

 

Good!! And if he calls you, no relationship talk. Just be receptive to him. Also, be careful not to avoid him completely in the morning - there is a fine line between not pouncing on someone vs avoiding them. You will learn the balance.

 

My husband is angry that we spend so much on house payment - $1300/mo but that includes some high property taxes and insurance. My husband rants that I listen to everyone else - meaning our "financial advisor" and I don't listen to my husband.

 

Did you go to the financial advisor WITH your husband and both hear what the FA had to say and make the decision together? You are leaving him out of a lot. Even if the decision would have been the same. I think there is a difference between having one spouse do the banking - write out the checks, pay the bills, versus one spouse "parenting"/being controlling. 'handing over your check to your wife" and she doles you out pocket money can be a bit emasculating to some men, vs him depositing his check and putting it into your joint account sometimes. Some men don't care, but clearly, he needs some way to feel like he is not just an accessory to your life that existed before him.

[CatsMeeoow]

Good!!

Did you go to the financial advisor WITH your husband and both hear what the FA had to say and make the decision together? You are leaving him out of a lot. Even if the decision would have been the same. I think there is a difference between having one spouse do the banking - write out the checks, pay the bills, versus one spouse "parenting"/being controlling. 'handing over your check to your wife" and she doles you out pocket money can be a bit emasculating to some men, vs him depositing his check and putting it into your joint account sometimes. Some men don't care, but clearly, he needs some way to feel like he is not just an accessory to your life that existed before him.

 

I didn't discuss realtionship! :-) The only text I sent was to let him know his son contacted me and will be coming for dinner on Sunday! :-) He texted 3 times last night (while I was asleep). Nothing that needed a response from me so I did not. He texted again this morning and I simply texted "OK".

 

He had errands to do today after work - one of which was an appointment with his therapist who he sees monthly. This person was a family counselor for his ex wife and kids but he has continued to maintain monthly meetings. A lot of times he tells me what he shares and the therapists input. I do know of lately he has discussed me and our marriage. He hasn't shared anything today. Its not my place to ask about his appointment so I simply stated his haircut looks good.

 

He is incredibly distant today. I'm sure thoughts and feelings got poked in his counseling session. This is a huge step back from yesterday but I am giving him space and I will not nag or push but I am sad that we can't maintain the good vibes we had yesterday.

 

And - yes he was at the appointment with the financial advisor. He heard everything I heard and we even talked about it after we left. When push comes to shove he has backed down from his earlier rant to say that "yes" it makes sense not to have a mortgage payment when we retire. I think he picks things to fight and argue over because of a bigger issue - he is worn down from the commute. I mentioned getting a resume' worked out. I havnen't had to make one for 28yrs so I mentioned I'm rusty and having worked the same job for that long I'm going to have to have a knock out cover letter. His response was if I had been serious I would have done this a long time - I agree. In the past it was a given that we stayed until my son graduated high school so he didn't have to change schools just prior to graduating.

 

I'm trying to be cool but it is harder when he is more distant.

[journeynow]

Apart from the day-to-day nuances, what is the bigger picture? What do you appreciate about him? What does he appreciate about you?

[CatsMeeoow]

What I appreciate about my husband? He knows me - really knows me. He would open up to me. We laugh. At the end of a long day he would without me asking give me a complete foot bath and pedicure. :peaceful: I enjoy just being in the same room with him even he is on his laptop and I'm knitting. I like that he is a rugged outdoors kinda a guy. He knows how to get stuff done. At the end of his long day he will come home and randomly pop into where I work unexpected on a Saturday to bring me something to drink. He works hard for his family. He has for years. I admire him for that. He knows I have some fears (heights, MRI's, etc) and in Hawaii he took my hand and guided me snorkeling. I trust that he will look after me and make sure I'm okay. I'm totally attracted to him - dad bod and all! He is strong.

 

What does my husband appreciate about me? That's a tougher question to answer because where he is right now its hard to see that he appreciates much since I've let him down. I can say that he still currently says that I'm an amazing housekeeper, I'm very smart and have a great career. I know he used to say I was hot and he was totally attracted to me. He used to brag about me how I had a full time job, took care of the kids and still kept a clean house. I learned to make his favorite dessert and he bragged how it was better than his mothers. He trusted me completely. He didn't always say it but he has since that I was there for him during the difficult times with his ex with holding kids and the games she played. He sees the sacrifices I made and what I went through during those times.

 

Thursday there was some friction at first during our financial/bills discussion but it made way to being more freely open to talk and share. I gave him his space to rest and relax and went about my day. He approached me and asked if I wanted some shallow, meaningless sex. Its been a month since we were intimate and frankly due to his exhaustion/stress despite it being a pretty hot session he didn't orgasm. Its not like that never happened before also due to lack of sleep/exhaustion but that was the first time he ever made me feel bad about it - like it was something I wasn't doing right. I know he was just lashing out but it did sting. So, honestly he knows I'm a little sexually frustrated right now and given the chance to make up for last time I said I was up for sex. Its been more aggressive lately - nothing abusive/hurtful but just different. He really locked eyes with me like never before and for a long time. Normally we will talk and look at one another but he was really focused on me. Afterwards he joked that he would see me again in a month. I tried to keep it light hearted and not place pressure or push. The rest of the day he was just kinder. After sleeping and getting up for work he actually asked about my day which is not something he has done in awhile. Even when he got to work he was texted some which he typically hasn't done in a month.

 

What's the bigger picture? I don't know right now. Its been a tougher 24hrs. He came home from work on Friday morning so different from Thursday. Cold, quiet, distant. And, it remains that way today. He wakes up early and is on his phone. Something that wasn't happening until the last 2 months. I asked "why are you on your phone so early?". No response so I let it go. He is back on his phone again 30min later. Keep in mind he is in bed next to me and the light from the phone is extremely bright. I ask again "who are you texting?". My husband states "I apologize if I misled you". Me: "misled me how?". Husband: "that I answer to you". Me: "you don't...... its just you are always asking who I am texting/talking to, what am I doing, etc and I always answer you". Husband "Amber". I let it go. Amber is the woman he works with on 3rds. Its just the two of them at night. I know he is not having an affair especially with someone he works with. But, he is pouring his time and energy into everyone but me. Can I draw him back to me?

 

My husband is checked out. He is burnt out. This much I know.

[abitbroken]

You have to stop taking the temperature of the relationship every hour or day.

 

I think at this point - he is tired of excuses. Its time for action - "i am so rusty in my resume skills" --- just put both feet in, get on linkedin and go down to the unemployment office in your county to sign up for a class on resume writing and interviewing. don't tell him "what you are going to do". Tell him after the fact when you have an interview or have your resume together. You should be treating this like a matter of life and death. Not "well, this is what i WOULD do, but..."

 

I would also explore the housing market near his job. You can be the one with a long commute while you look for a job once you settle. because what's the point in you having a job there if you BOTH are commuting?

 

I commuted an hour the last 4 months of high school because my family moved. It was just what i had to do.

 

If he is talking to "amber" - and not just the calls about change in schedule, an emotional affair could be starting. It doesn't mean he has a thing for her, but he is leaning on their friendship. Or maybe he isn't and its about work stuff.

 

This may not be able to be saved, but then again it might.....

I don't know.

 

But you need to act and not just assess things day to day - to not "check up on him constantly".

 

Have you ever been to a counseling session with him to his therapist?

[CatsMeeoow]

You are right I need to stop comparing one day to the next.

 

I have to tread carefully with the house stuff. By showing an interest now he questions it. As with his hunting - this weekend: Him- "why are you so interested in the hunting stuff now?", ME- "I've always been interested. Since we've been married I've always supported you taking off and being gone during hunting season without questioning you.", Him- "Why all the questions about hunting now?", ME- "I want you to be aware that I am interested as you somehow think I have not been".

 

Quite frankly I would not mind being the person with the commute. I could cut my schedule to 3 to 4 days a week and probably just make the most of those days and walk away with the same paycheck. But, he refuses to allow me to commute if we move.

 

As for my son in high school we are in a very desired school district. He can only attend there if we live within the school district. Which is why in the past we talked about waiting until he was out of school.

 

He is on his phone all the time which is something that was unlike him 3 months ago. I'm sure he is leaning on multiple female friendships that haven't crossed the line yet since he is so pulled away from me. It weighs on me but there is nothing I can do. If I say something it pushes him further away.

 

Here's to another week in paradise... sigh.

[Seraphim]

If he is relying on these female friends it HAS crossed the line.

[CatsMeeoow]

If he is relying on these female friends it HAS crossed the line.

 

Maybe? But 2 I know have been friends since childhood and I know without a doubt he hasn't and will not ever go inappropriate. The other two I know less of but my husband has been brutally honest. I am painfully honest. So I can't imagine he would say all those other things and be lying about this. He does know where I draw the line in this marriage. He told me he has thought about crossing it just to hurt me/get back at me but he hasn't yet. I'm fairly certain of it.

 

But, again the more I give him the third degree about it the more he will withdraw and that isn't going to pull him closer to me.

[Seraphim]

I guess I am not understanding why you want to stay with someone who purposefully says and does things to hurt you and even states it as such. Love is not a good enough reason to me. Life is too short and life too hard to tolerate people putting the screws to me on purpose.

[CatsMeeoow]

I guess I am not understanding why you want to stay with someone who purposefully says and does things to hurt you and even states it as such. Love is not a good enough reason to me. Life is too short and life too hard to tolerate people putting the screws to me on purpose.

 

I made mistakes in my marriage too. While I may not have spoken painful words my actions (or lack thereof) left my husband feeling completely rejected. He has been dealing with a lot of hurt and pain and I had no idea. I truly didn't have a clue that he was so heartbroken.

 

I married for better or for worse. If I have to spend a few months showing my husband that I have changed and won't make those mistakes again so we can build a better marriage then that's what I have to do. I have to be consistant. He has to feel that if he decides to stay I'm not going to revert back to the person who hurt him.

 

Its not easy. It hurts. Valentines Day is coming up. Do you think he is going to give me the time of day? I have at least voiced my needs/wants. I asked for some of his time on Wednesday morning and why. His response was "we will see" and then followed by "the way I see it its just another day". I'm being assertive and telling him what I want and he has the right to say no. I'm not going to bring it up again. Its up to him to make the decision that maybe its important to me and its worth putting a little effort into it.