I don't want a divorce

[Seraphim]

You are being jerked around.

[CatsMeeoow]

It's rude.

 

Your wife gives you a card. The same wife who 1 month ago you wanted to go out of your way and out a remote start on her car just because.

 

You could at least open the card... throw it in the trash afterward but to leave it sitting unopened is rude. I don't give him cards very often. It's not like he got one a month ago or something.

 

I come home... He says nothing so I leave him be. He ends up in the kitchen and calls out my name. I have to get up and go to the room he is in... "yes?" He wants to know if I took this Friday off. No I took off next Friday... that's the day you asked... oh so you want to go to the deer expo then. Me - yes you said that was the best time.

 

He walks away... I ask is that all you needed... He replied yes.

 

Again, I don't get what that was about. My understanding he was planning on working all weekend. Idk, maybe he is going to make plans to go out so I can sit and wonder where he is at cause you know if I texted him 10min after he left he wouldn't reply cause it's non of my business.

 

Annoyed, frustrated and needed to vent.

[journeynow]

I was fine to be in the same room with him knitting away while he is next to me. He needed me to be touching him. Its how he feels appreciated and loved.

 

I honestly do not understand the knitting issue. Was this the only opportunity for you two to be touching? How much of the time do you knit? What about in the bedroom? Have you not touched him in two years? What about when either of you are leaving for, or returning from work, were there ever hugs and kisses?

 

Love language is fine, but it is a preference, not a ball and chain.

[CatsMeeoow]

I honestly do not understand the knitting issue. Was this the only opportunity for you two to be touching? How much of the time do you knit? What about in the bedroom? Have you not touched him in two years? What about when either of you are leaving for, or returning from work, were there ever hugs and kisses?

 

Love language is fine, but it is a preference, not a ball and chain.

 

I have known since I started dating my husband he has a high need for touch - hand holding, stroking the back of his neck, massaging the top of his head, letting him put his arms around me and vice versa. Not anything to lead to sexual touching but I made a mental note that he needed it and I would be committed to doing so. It was NEVER a conversation we had between us. Its just something I learned about my husband early on.

 

But, I got complacent. I got comfortable. We both put on 30lbs... it happens.

 

So we would settle in for a Friday night. He often picked up take out and we would watch tv. I would unwind by knitting and often I had to be up at work the next morning at 8am so I wouldn't want to do much. He would be sitting in chair at 90 degree angle from my chair and would extend his hand out to me because he wanted to hold my hand. I would implore that I just wanted to knit a bit.

 

We would be on long car ride - traveling for a few hours. I would hold his hand at times but at others I would knit. Its my go to to relax. He one time made a comment when I wanted to knit that "one day my hand won't be here". Of course I didn't take that as he was crushed that I wasn't holding his hand. I took that to mean - you know one day in the future I could be dead and you won't get these moments back. NOT that he would leave me over it.

 

Of course we touched at other times and we have been having sex though infrequent with our schedules. He would joke he was too tired to go solo let alone get into with me so I backed off. The sex got stale and boring and I know it was lackluster. He would come home to hug me and put his arms around me but I felt so self conscious for the weight I had gained. It killed my self esteem and I pulled away - AND THAT KILLED HIM. I did't realize how much I hurt him. It cuts me like a knife looking back at those times now. Since this bomb was dropped we have talked about the struggles with the sex and honestly the sex we have had since has been a lot better - hotter, more kissing and like it used to be, but now to him its just a "F***". Its now meaningless sex on his terms when he wants and certainly not when I want it.

 

He used to come out to the garage when I would leave in the morning. He would kiss me - just a peck but to get my attention as I pulled away he would drop his pants and show his naughty parts to get me to laugh. When he left for work I would always walk him to the door and hug him. I miss the man who stood in the garage flashing his naughty parts... I really do.

 

My husband is unhappy. He will point to a lot of things and cause arguments over why did I make peanut butter cookies? He said they were delicious but why would I make them? I know he has a doctor appointment coming up next week and he is worried about his high cholesterol. I would not get baited into an argument. I said I like to bake it relaxes me and I enjoy it. I tried to send them home with my step son so that my husband would stop complaining about the cookies. The minute I did he said - well you could save me a couple. FINE. I got a baggie and put 2 cookies in it and he was like - you could give me 3 or 4. FINE. I put 4 cookies in a bag for him and made sure my step son took the rest. The fight over the cookies was NOT about the cookies. He loved the cookies. He is unhappy and lashing out over everything. I get that.

 

Yes. It cuts deeply that he is throwing me away. I will take my ownership in his hurt and rejection but I flatly told him today he is rejecting me. He tried to say it wasn't the same and I cut him off and said YES, YES it is. I'm being cast aside, rejected, unwanted. I am feeling the pain I put him through and two wrongs don't make a right. I will say that if this is how my husband felt by my actions its terrible. I'm in terrible pain and to think I did that him leaves me sad. I am not excusing his role or his behavior. I am acknowledging my pain and my contribution.

[journeynow]

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

[catfeeder]

So my husband already knew I had nothing planned for dinner as he was not supposed to be here tonight. I told him earlier I was going to go to diner in town did he want to go - he said "I don't know". I was okay with that.

 

I went to wake up my husband to say I'm going to town for dinner did he want go? He responds "No". I totally expected that but it would have been rude not ask. So I left for dinner.

 

10 min later comes the text: where did you go for dinner?

 

Really???? I totally understand being tired and not wanting to go to dinner. I was not upset and didn't hang around to see if he changed his mind. He hasn't as of this moment even opened his Vday card... yet I leave the house for 10minutes telling him I'm going to dinner and he has to follow up???

 

Annoyed....

 

Sounds like he either changed his mind or was reconsidering the idea, so he wanted to know where to find you.

 

I'd make my mantra, "Curious, not furious..." to avoid getting annoyed simply because you don't understand something. That won't work well for your goals.

[CatsMeeoow]

Sounds like he either changed his mind or was reconsidering the idea, so he wanted to know where to find you.

 

I'd make my mantra, "Curious, not furious..." to avoid getting annoyed simply because you don't understand something. That won't work well for your goals.

 

I see your point. The thing is he didn't show up and when I returned he didn't say a word to me so I don't think it was about showing up or changing his mind.

[thealchemist]

It still doesn't sound like you did anything terrible. Slowly becoming neglectful happens. If it was an issue he should have made it one at the time. Not build up being so butthurt.

 

He sounds like he is just trying to play games with you and be a because he is mean and wants to hurt you.

 

Childishly being emotionally abusive.

 

He is just wanting to hurt you and only throws you bread crumbs when he thinks he is about to push you too far. That is why is seems so illogical with his behavior. It is a game and the goal is to cause you pain.

 

That is my take at least.

 

I also have physical touch as one of my primary love languages.

 

But when my needs aren't being met I talk to my wife about it. Not be a childish person and try to hurt her in turn.

[CatsMeeoow]

It still doesn't sound like you did anything terrible. Slowly becoming neglectful happens. If it was an issue he should have made it one at the time. Not build up being so butthurt.

 

He sounds like he is just trying to play games with you and be a because he is mean and wants to hurt you.

 

Childishly being emotionally abusive.

 

He is just wanting to hurt you and only throws you bread crumbs when he thinks he is about to push you too far. That is why is seems so illogical with his behavior. It is a game and the goal is to cause you pain.

 

That is my take at least.

 

I also have physical touch as one of my primary love languages.

 

But when my needs aren't being met I talk to my wife about it. Not be a childish person and try to hurt her in turn.

 

That's just it - I believe he did. I know he feels that he did say things about it but something the message wasn't sinking in. I wasn't getting it. I heard but I really didn't hear???

 

You add in other the factors, hates the commute, can't have a garden here, feels that he doesn't fit into what he thinks I want him to be, feels he should have more in life than he does, general unhappiness and its a downward spiral. He will tell you that if I had been meeting his needs to whee he felt loved and wanted/needed by me he wouldn't have let the other things even bother him.

 

So yes - he believes I deliberately chose not reject him because he was telling me. And, I as a silly neglectful wife wasn't getting it until it was too late.

 

He isn't being childish. He is incredibly stressed out. He said over and over today that he is not sleeping well, eating well, etc because he is so incredibly stressed out. I want him to just pack a bag and go take a trip alone. To get himself back to center and find some clarity for his own peace of mind. Its killing me to see him like this. The minute I state he should go take some time for himself he barks he can't afford it. Its not going to break us - yes I know he wants to pay off the timeshare but we have the money. He could take $3k and just go let some steam off with an army buddy. When I use terms like "we" can't afford for him not to take a break... he barks who is this "we" stuff.

 

He is very stressed out. :-(

 

He is not a perfect husband

[thealchemist]

He might love you but it seems apparent that it is twisted with malice too.

 

He goes back and forth because he both loves and hates you.

 

He cannot blame all his unhappiness on you. That is childish. Pushing all the responcibility to you is him hiding from the truth. It was both of your faults.

 

You are also in denial about it. It isn't all your fault. Why are you the only one working on it?

 

He isn't just going to come to a point when he thinks, "hey, I've emotionally abused my wife enough, now we are even so ill start trying again"

 

That isn't how it works.

 

He has so much hate mixed up in his emotions for you that I don't see how anyone so mean and mallicious could keep someone around. But you are still there so I guess it happens.

 

You are just going to be his punching bag until you decide to stop letting it happen.

[Seraphim]

I agree . He is responsible for what comes out of his mouth and his attitude stressed or not stressed and rejected or not rejected. Anything less suggests he is not adult. If you want to be his emotional punching bag as an adult that is your right too. Just remember your son has to watch it.

[catfeeder]

I see your point. The thing is he didn't show up and when I returned he didn't say a word to me so I don't think it was about showing up or changing his mind.

 

Did you convey your annoyance to him when he asked?

 

I'd make room for the idea that he was reconsidering but felt too tired (he was sleeping, right?) unless your response wasn't particularly encouraging to him.

 

Either way, I'd neutralize my own frustration and focus on my long range goal.

[CatsMeeoow]

I did not - I let it go. I vented my frustration here.

 

It was an interesting weekend. But, I'm sure everyone here would state he is throwing me breadcrumbs and I'm trying to make a cake out of them.

 

Just 2 days ago he said he would not ever take me to the Harley dealership because I never wanted to go before. Friday after we talked about making a bill payment using his bonus he just nearly broke down saying he was so stressed out, that he was stressed the F out. I said I wanted to send him away on a trip to go see an old friend and get his mojo back. He said he can't afford. I then said I think we can't afford for you not to - of course he responds with "what's this WE stuff"?

 

The next thing I know he asks when I due back at work. I tell him. He then says he is hungry and do I want to the Harley dealership? I'm like ok. It was a quick trip and we talked to the salesguy. Or, I should say my husband did. He knows a lot about bikes. I was interested and then looked around on my own. He kept coming back to me and saying "which one do you like?". "What color do you like?".

 

We left the bike store and grabbed a quick lunch. I asked him which one he liked, color, etc. He asked how much would a payment be on a $30k. Then at lunch he came down off his high a bit and stated he can't afford it. I pointed out the pluses - like making his commute more enjoyable. Being able to get out and just ride on the weekends. The money we would say on gas not driving his truck at 12mi/gal. Then he said "he still can't have a garden". I just said "no, not at this house but that could change". I left it at that.

 

That was just Friday... then there were things on Saturday AND Sunday that I'm still trying to process in my head.

[Wiseman2]

How often during arguments have either of you said "I want a divorce" or made any such insinuation? It seems you are both happy continuing to resent and seethe at each other him overtly and you more passive aggressively. It seems neither of you are interested in divorcing nor improving your marriage and happily just pick and bicker endlessly over nonsense like knitting/holding hands, cookies and other such repetitive minutiae all the while seething with contempt.

[journeynow]

A motorcycle could make his commute more enjoyable, and certainly would save on gas. But it doesn't require a Harley or a new motorcycle or another loan. Buy used and cheap.

[CatsMeeoow]

How often during arguments have either of you said "I want a divorce" or made any such insinuation? It seems you are both happy continuing to resent and seethe at each other him overtly and you more passive aggressively. It seems neither of you are interested in divorcing nor improving your marriage and happily just pick and bicker endlessly over nonsense like knitting/holding hands, cookies and other such repetitive minutiae all the while seething with contempt.

 

I'm just picking my battles and I know the argument over cookies was NOT about cookies. Do I want to make a big deal over a text message? It will just make him retreat and not text at all. It won't get him to open up to me.

 

There were no disagreements or issues all weekend. We both talked and listened and I have been avoiding talking about "us" so there is no pressure on him. I made sure I didn't interfere with his down time and left to do my own things. I know he is so stressed out - headaches, etc.

 

He has made it clear that I'm not getting what he needs right now - to be alone. He has only mentioned "controlled separation" and not divorce but I think he is only doing that because he is trying to let me down gently rather than completely jerk the rug? IDK.

[CatsMeeoow]

A motorcycle could make his commute more enjoyable, and certainly would save on gas. But it doesn't require a Harley or a new motorcycle or another loan. Buy used and cheap.

 

That's the box I used to put him in - get used, etc.

 

He would balk that I couldn't understand. I don't ride and I can't possibly get it. He is right I don't get it, but I see now how he does. The way he talked to the sales guy about bikes. My husband knows his stuff. I also understand with an old injury he needs hydrolic clutch which is only on newer bikes. Harley is a passion... talk to people who think you don't own a Harley you don't have a bike.

 

My husband has had to go without and do for less for so long. He really does deserve something that HE wants. I will not begrudge him that or continue to place a "budget" of what he can spend on a bike. He has put me and my child along with his children all before him. It is HIS time. I want to support that but I feel that I have left him feeling "starved" for so long that he is bolting out the door.

 

He is calm and makes sense in his texts to be about his feelings. It was hard to hear because in them he isn't thinking about me but only of what he needs. He is really in an unhappy place. :-(

[Wiseman2]

Exactly. Stop thinking for him and mommying him. Think for yourself and let him think for himself. Why worry about divorce if that's never been discussed and neither of you are doing anything to that end? It seems like a very antagonistic marriage. Which both of you are caught in a cycle of but won't get help or stop. You both seem to enjoy the jabs and overbearing actions, such as talking to him like a moron and him being hostile toward you.

I said I wanted to send him away on a trip to go see an old friend and get his mojo back. I then said I think we can't afford for you not to - of course he responds with "what's this WE stuff"?

[abitbroken]

Okay -- why the heck can't the man have a garden? When i lived in an apartment, I had plants in containers on the back fire escape (well, there was an area that was part of the roof before you got to the fire escape so it wasn't interfering with it and i had herbs growing in window boxes. I grew tomatoes, peppers, herbs and a bush cucumber that didn't climb much. When i lived in an urban area, i had a small garden between the fence and the driveway. I had trellises set up, too, to try to get cucumbers to climb. My neighbor had a grapevine - and we both hardly had a yard. in fact theirs was all pavement except for that tiny sliver.

 

If you have a small space, look up Square Foot Gardening. I can't believe unless you live in a townhouse in an old seaport or a brownstone that you can't have a garden and even in that case, you have windows, likely have at least one small planting area near a window outside that is just bushes now.

 

I know you are picking your battles - but why on earth can't he have a garden??? Even if it just started as a 2 foot by 6 foot strip??

[journeynow]

That's the box I used to put him in - get used, etc.

 

He would balk that I couldn't understand. I don't ride and I can't possibly get it. He is right I don't get it, but I see now how he does. The way he talked to the sales guy about bikes. My husband knows his stuff. I also understand with an old injury he needs hydrolic clutch which is only on newer bikes. Harley is a passion... talk to people who think you don't own a Harley you don't have a bike.

 

My husband has had to go without and do for less for so long. He really does deserve something that HE wants. I will not begrudge him that or continue to place a "budget" of what he can spend on a bike. He has put me and my child along with his children all before him. It is HIS time. I want to support that but I feel that I have left him feeling "starved" for so long that he is bolting out the door.

 

He is calm and makes sense in his texts to be about his feelings. It was hard to hear because in them he isn't thinking about me but only of what he needs. He is really in an unhappy place. :-(

 

Seems like you both are all over the place about money. He's working without days off in order to pay bills, and is stressed and has been stressed out and on the one hand wants to scale back and on the other is considering a $30,00 loan on a motorcycle. (Sorry, but that counteracts saving any money on gas.)

 

No, you are not putting him in a box. No, he is not starved. Yes, he is unhappy. Yes, his happiness is his choice. He's not actively fixing it. As difficult as your feelings are, you are not being killed by this.

 

I understand Harley is a passion. Doesn't mean it justifies another payment.

[CatsMeeoow]

Okay -- why the heck can't the man have a garden? When i lived in an apartment, I had plants in containers on the back fire escape (well, there was an area that was part of the roof before you got to the fire escape so it wasn't interfering with it and i had herbs growing in window boxes. I grew tomatoes, peppers, herbs and a bush cucumber that didn't climb much. When i lived in an urban area, i had a small garden between the fence and the driveway. I had trellises set up, too, to try to get cucumbers to climb. My neighbor had a grapevine - and we both hardly had a yard. in fact theirs was all pavement except for that tiny sliver.

 

If you have a small space, look up Square Foot Gardening. I can't believe unless you live in a townhouse in an old seaport or a brownstone that you can't have a garden and even in that case, you have windows, likely have at least one small planting area near a window outside that is just bushes now.

 

I know you are picking your battles - but why on earth can't he have a garden??? Even if it just started as a 2 foot by 6 foot strip??

 

Our back yard is beautiful but there are WAY too many trees on the property behind us and our property. Not a bit of area gets 8hr of sunlight consistently through the day.

 

He has done community garden the last 2yr but he works himself so hard with tons of overtime that he does't feel he has time to get there to do the work needed and last year the plots he picked got damaged by work they were doing in the area - TWICE. He got frustrated.

 

He feels if he didn't drive 2hr a day and could garden at his own home he would get more done with it. So he is detached from our home and hates that it doesn't fit his needs. :-(

[CatsMeeoow]

Seems like you both are all over the place about money. He's working without days off in order to pay bills, and is stressed and has been stressed out and on the one hand wants to scale back and on the other is considering a $30,00 loan on a motorcycle. (Sorry, but that counteracts saving any money on gas.)

 

No, you are not putting him in a box. No, he is not starved. Yes, he is unhappy. Yes, his happiness is his choice. He's not actively fixing it. As difficult as your feelings are, you are not being killed by this.

 

I understand Harley is a passion. Doesn't mean it justifies another payment.

 

What I am saying is he won't spend the money. He says he can't afford it.

 

We taken a role reversal. He would always want, want, want and I would say we don't have the money OR here is a budget we can work with. He would constantly complain that I put him on a budget and he got resentful.

 

I'm burnt out on the being the NO person.

 

I've given him free reigns without budget to do what he needs to AND he is the one telling me when I said I was going for a drive to get out and let him have space that driving costs money/gas. He is the one watching where we eat because its too expensive here or there so we go somewhere else. That isn't like him - that's more like me. I've taken a step back and if we want it we should get it.

 

So no... he won't get the motorcycle because he can't afford it.

[journeynow]

He has made it clear that I'm not getting what he needs right now - to be alone. He has only mentioned "controlled separation" and not divorce

 

Then what's he doing to to spend time alone? He's got to do this himself instead of coming back to the routine of you and home and complaining to you about it. In your shoes I would not "send" him anywhere or mother him or fix him.

 

You blame yourself for not really hearing him before, he thought there was a problem but didn't actually do anything. You can't go back and do that differently but you can do it now, hear what he says now, he's done, he wants to be alone, but if that is what he wants he has to leave. Right now he is doing a "controlled separation" of his own design, he's treating you as separate, a non-partner, while staying. It's not a separation, it's shutting you out and guilting you.

[abitbroken]

Our back yard is beautiful but there are WAY too many trees on the property behind us and our property. Not a bit of area gets 8hr of sunlight consistently through the day.

 

He has done community garden the last 2yr but he works himself so hard with tons of overtime that he does't feel he has time to get there to do the work needed and last year the plots he picked got damaged by work they were doing in the area - TWICE. He got frustrated.

 

He feels if he didn't drive 2hr a day and could garden at his own home he would get more done with it. So he is detached from our home and hates that it doesn't fit his needs. :-(

 

Then you plant something that is happy with shade or you put containers on your porch. (there are things - not corn, obviously, that like partial sun and shade!) Or you strategically decide which couple of limbs need to go to give an area some sunlight and get a grow light for the tomatoes in the basement. To me if this was my permanent marital home and me or my husband wanted a garden, it wouldn't be NO - it would be "let's figure out how we can have one". if you guys had looked for a house when you got married - it would be like anything else - you would have a list of requirements - enough bedrooms for all the kids to stay, a place for a garden (even if that involved ripping up some sod, moving some landscaping, doing a raised bed and so forth. In moving into your home, he did not get any of his requirements except the fact that you were there, right? I would have done anything i could to make you BOTH feel it was BOTH of your home until you moved after kids graduated.

[Wiseman2]

It's your former marital home and all his friends, family and work are an hour away? It's amazing that you bicker about gardening, motorcycles, elk heads,etc. and avoid so many major issues like the contempt, lack of respect, financial discrepancies, shift problems, commuting issues, etc. and ironically both of you have your heels dug in refusing to budge or do anything about all the real problems. So you just pick, pick and pick at nonsense chronically. Hopefully you are addressing the real stuff with your therapist and not only talking about this chronic nonissue bickering

he is detached from our home and hates that it doesn't fit his needs.