Dating Someone with Oral Herpes

[tiredofvampires]

I'm not going in the proper order here of the posts, so bear with me:

 

Your apprehension is understandable since it is contagious and he seems a bit uninformed. The fact that he unhid his profile is also disconcerting. Do you think he felt rejected?

 

He was pretty uninformed. All the facts that have been laid out here were new to him. I did my very best to explain things calmly, without looking like I was freaking out or like he was some kind of diseased freak, which of course he is not.

 

But yes, I feel that he has internalized this in some way and feels rejected. In a follow-up email the next day, where I discussed other interests and merely touched on this, saying, "I don't want to close any doors because of this, but I think more information is needed. I will be asking around with my health care providers, but we should just proceed by keeping lines of communication open, like we have been about other things."

 

Then he joked with an allusion to the movie, "The Elephant Man", saying, "I am not an animal!....haha." To that, I replied, "Haha, that's funny, but of course I don't feel that way! If anything, it's just as much my issue because I have health concerns of my own." I tried to totally take the stigma out of it for him, even take it upon myself a bit to relieve the pressure on him.

 

The way that bit ended, which was very brief, was us agreeing to just have open communication about it all. In the interests of that, I said I did have some fear, but it's not a closed book, it would depend on other things as well between us. And that was me seriously downplaying my anxiety, for both our sakes.

 

I then asked him if he minded my sending literature his way. I expressed my general view that knowledge is power and information would help us make informed decisions along the way. He didn't answer that question, just left me hanging on that.

 

Does anyone see this as a red flag? If that were me in his shoes, I'd be on this, for my own knowledge as well as reassurance/info/options.

 

Then the conversation switched to musical interests, and we had quite a fun day of sharing music clips throughout the day. He ended in the evening suddenly saying he was going out for a walk, so was going offline (not something he does in the evening)...and then the next day was total silence, with his profile back up.

 

And today, no morning emails, which he usually sends.

 

So I do think he feels either rejected, or that I'm a nutcase, or that I'm not worth it...so it's actually me feeling somewhat rejected at this point.

 

I just don't like the fact that we have both been putting a lot of effort into this, and investing in building up to making it more of a "reality" in real time, and when I ask him if he would like to share info about this, he wouldn't even answer me. Also the night before, during the actual live conversation, I said, "I'll do some research" and he said, "I know you're good at that." And I got the sense that it was either all on me, or he didn't care enough to want to investigate even. Maybe he did do a little, maybe he didn't, but for all his, "Yes, open communication is the way to go", I don't feel like he's treating this like we are "teamlike".

 

So if anything, maybe he's the one throwing in the towel first. Or distancing himself at least to the point that now, it's up to me to have to chase a bit.

[tiredofvampires]

One thing, on a side note, that I don't like about his personality style is that even in other matters, when an issue of potential discord or difficulty comes up, he dodges the issue I notice.

 

Like, we have a few politically different viewpoints, and mine are pretty strong/vocal, and when I asked him some pointed questions about his, he abjectly refused to answer, then said he thought I might "rip him a new one", then gave some weird deflective answer. Then he said, "these are tough issues, I get conflicted in my own head, so I don't take hard stances, I deliberate on my own." So this is part of his MO, as I see it. In some ways, he really has been quite frank and willing to discuss things, but sometimes where the rubber meets the road when he feels something is going to challenge some personal view, or issue, he can clam up in a self-protective/self-defensive way. Some part of me would really like for a man to not run away taking his marbles home when something disagreeable happens.

[ParisPaulette]

It's odd that we now worry about something that when I was growing up was simply one more thing, 'You could catch from someone" like a cold or strep. I have oral herpes, had it since I was two (not a fun childhood memory) and I've dated plenty of people with it. Hubs doesn't have it, which is rare. The oral type is not transmitted sexually as a matter of fact, a large segment of the population does have it, in some it will just remain dormant all the time. And so you may well have been in contact with people before who did have it, but just din't know it and neither do they.

 

I was always more worried about the ick factor, and pain. One doesn't generally want to kiss or have sex with someone who has a big old cold sore on their lip. I just never did it, because of that reason alone, either when I had a cold sore or someone else did. I do not remember ever getting one from another person, even someone I did kiss who got them fairly frequently and I know we were kissing during the initial stages and/or tail end of an outbreak. Not sure if I was just lucky or what, but mine are always triggered by fevers and/or sunburns.

 

That said this guy having sores every few months is concerning, because it's unusual or odd (at least as far as I know) to have them that often. Either he hasn't found what triggers his outbreaks, has a somewhat compromised immune system, or hasn't just gone to the doctor to get it handled. Nowadays there are antivirals one can take, which do work. I know because I get shingles periodically and when I felt a cold sore coming on I took my antivirals and it killed it. Same with creams you can get over the counter and also from your doctor. All of these things will drastically lessen and in some cases even stop an outbreak.

 

Also my observation is the oral kind doesn't seem as severe in its effects on the body as the one that is sexually transmitted. Again, this is only my own experience talking but case in point I have to have a fever and be sick first and then it triggers the sore, which is frankly just an ugly pimple to me. It hurts, it itches, I look horrible, but that's it. That's the entire affect it has on me, the "ewwww" factor is probably the worst of it.

 

Compare that to my buddy who has the sexually transmitted kind--he runs a fever, feels run down, will sometimes be in a ton of pain and will also catch other things like colds more easily. For me, an oral cold sore is an annoyance, for him an outbreak on his nether regions is major sick time.

 

At the end of the day this really comes down to what you're willing to risk or not, I guess. I'd be more concerned this guy is having them often than that he's having them.

[tiredofvampires]

Yep. If you're open to a move, do it for yourself--not a LDR. It makes no sense to build a fantasy and try to move yourself into it. Move to where you'd otherwise want to live, and if this leads to a more fertile love life, that's the icing.

 

Touched on this in my general post above, but I just wanted to say that there is nothing fantasy-like about this. I know it's hard for people to believe, but one CAN proceed with caution at a distance and not project things onto the prospective love interest, leaving it open for things not clicking in person. This is how we've gone about it, so it seems sane. And as stated, there are many complex logistical problems with my moving right now. I would only move to be with a partner when I feel we have such a strong, cemented bond, and road experience together in real time, and miles on us, that it feels like a safe "bet."

 

People have done it before, moved overseas to be with someone and it has worked out. (This is not overseas). Is it hard, yes, impossible, no. You just have to be very level-headed, sane, and cautious, and that's what I'm being.

 

My moving independently of a relationship is something I am considering as well, but if a relationship should develop before that, that would make a difference where I might plan to go. It's also possible someone might relocate here, which would make being here more feasible (but that's more unlikely, as this is a hard place to live). No option is off the table at this point.

 

As stated, this is a peripheral issue, as this is not in the LDR subforum. But I wanted to make some comment on this, since you took the time, Cat.

[amybdean1227]

You really care if someone gets herpes "cold sores"? That's such a common thing. I mean I get them when I get sick in winter and my immune system is down. Abreva is gold when it comes to cold sores. That stuff is like a magic eraser. You are going to be fine making out and doing other things orally as long as there is no open sore. It's not like they have aids or something. Pull back the paranoia on it. If it was genital ok ya be this concerned but cold sores are so common. Just be careful when they have one as far as kissing, sharing drinks and oral sex and youll be fine.

[thejigsup]

Any and all types of herpes, I'm outta there. Period. The stuff spreads like wildfire. My brother has oral herpes and his wife NEVER kissed him. One of his kids got it from sharing eating utensils, it's easily spread during an outbreak. Life's tough enough without adding anything else to it. No thanks.

[catfeeder]

One thing, on a side note, that I don't like about his personality style is that even in other matters, when an issue of potential discord or difficulty comes up, he dodges the issue I notice.

 

This is the thing I'd find more disturbing than anything but the distance. I'm not trying to imply that you're not being rational, but the whole basis of LDR's IS an element of fantasy in even the most grounded people. You could also call it 'filling in the blanks.'

 

Well, how are you supposed to develop the kind of closeness and trust you'd need in order to warrant a move of thousands of miles to be with anyone who won't be straight with you?

 

I mean, if he won't even discuss his politics openly, what kind of surprises might his avoidance style set you up for? Would you really want to invest all your time bonding with someone over thousands of miles, only to move your whole life somewhere for him to discover that there's some giant dealbreaker he 'avoided' discussing with you?

 

There's zero you can do to change the fact of his herpes; that's with him for keeps. So the combo plate of his condition being a potential health threat for you, plus a distance of thousands of miles, and top that with an unwillingness to communicate in a straight forward way?

 

Speaking only for myself, that sounds like far too much of an investment for such a high risk--and this could be the tip of the iceberg. How would you even know until you know?

 

Head high.

[Lucia Amman]

When I was still dating, and I didn't exactly date persons to become long term relationships but I dated just for having fun, I came across a gorgeous looking man. He had long blond hair like Thor, owned a beach club, was younger than you would expected (begin thirties) and was raising money at the time for kids with terminal diseases; he was holding a benefit concert in Amsterdam to raise the money. He was a very active man, a giant and God-like figure as he used to surf, mountain bike and all that kind of stuff. He was kind, really wanted to change the world and surrounded himself with like minded persons. I secretly looked him up on Facebook and saw he was a great uncle to his niece and nephew too and 'babysit' them and so forth. I thought I had hit the jackpot.

 

Since we didn't live particularly close by and we both had a busy schedule we knew it was hard to set a date. We talked online a lot just like you. Until one night he felt a little bit down and I asked him what was going on. Upon until then he seemed like a positive person and not one to be taking aback by minor things. He told me that one year ago he was in a severe accident that made his knees gone bad. He has had several operations and now wasn't able to walk long distances or stand on his feet for a long time (and he was mainly a barkeeper at his beach club). For relieve of the pain he needed to put some pressure on knees with some sort of medical device. I've a close friend who is a doctor so I told her about his condition and asked what the chances of recovering was. He had stated that he thought he would recover within another year. My friend told me that he would likely not ever fully recover - not till the point that he would be able to surf and hike again at least.

 

Now I'm not a particularly active kind of person. I wouldn't take pleasure in regular long walks or hikes. Sometimes I would enjoy them, yes, but it's not something I would do every other week for example. Surfing - I tried and I'm a just not built for it. So him being less active than he was wasn't why I rejected him. I frankly would be ok with him if he had accepted his condition and was already a few years in. But he hadn't accept his condition or his new lifestyle yet. And he lived quite far away. And I had kids and couldn't move out of town with my kids. Well I could probably do that if he was really right the one, if I knew our relationship would hold longer than two years, if knew he would mentally recover from what his new condition meant for his lifestyle. I opted out. I never told him what I found out but I just let our conversations bleed out more frequently. It wasn't my place to tell him upfront what was going on. If he had lived closer I definitely would have given him a chance. I would go through the barrier I now saw because it would have only been that one barrier and not the other ten I saw with him and me living this far apart. I think we would have had a beautiful connection if we could just have meet in person and he would live within a half hour radius or something like that. For me it definitely was the distance and then some that lost my interest into him.

 

I did have the luxury though of having more potentially good options to date. But I did feel bad for him that I lost my interest in him as soon I found out what his knees really meant for his life. Priory I've felt very attracted and very hard in love with a man who was chronically ill that effected his life from a very young age. His condition wasn't an issue for me. He lived close by enough for us to meet regularly and whenever he felt ill because of his condition we would just move slower and do something not very time consuming on the date. Frankly his disease wasn't any issue at all.

 

I think setting up this plan to meet in person and finding several things that's holding you back should do that: hold you back. There can be so many things in a relationship that will set you off that if you already find some things prior it's just all the more likely that a couple months later it is even more off putting than anything that you'll find out about later.

 

I remember when I first started my relationship with my last ex boyfriend I was really annoyed that he would talk to much. He was a gorgeous man, kind and very gentle. I felt for these three points but found his talking annoying. Not all the time of course but sometimes it would take him too long to answer a question. He would answer in long elaborating sentences, which sometimes is a virtue but in his case just turned annoying very fast because his answers sometimes had nothing to do with the question anymore. (Ah I realize I'm doing that now but I'm trying to say things through text and he said it in person which was just not what you want in a chitchat conversation).

Anyways to cut it short he of course had more things that turned annoying over the years we were in a relationship. Just like every other human being has his/her flaws, there is nothing wrong with that. But me already finding his way of talking very annoying (again not all the time, sometimes it was what I wanted) made it blow up. Every year I got more annoyed by his talking and it turned in vicarious shame, which was even worse. I would hate to take him to parties sometimes afraid he would bore the guest - in fact I was sure he did that. My mom, who never holds her tongue, often complained to me about the way he talked. So I was not imaging it either. I think if I had loved this aspect from the start I would have loved it till the end, it would have become somewhat annoying maybe throughout the years but I would have found it equally adorable too. I would have covered it up with love. But I disliked this from the start and it only got worse.

 

So my take is that if you find something you dislike so early on you will probably hate it in two years time. It's the same with you kind of disliking his dodging behavior and running away from any discussion that he thinks is too hard to even have. For me this would be a major factor to hold against him at this point in time. In the first few days or months even in a relationship or prior to any relationship you step your best foot forward, you try to be the best version of yourself. I will tell all your hope and dreams and are as honest as can be (200%). It's only later that you will not hold back your grumpy face, your farts and your bad days. Him running away from real discussions says a lot about how he will fight in your relationship, how you might not discuss smaller opinions later on.

 

Frankly I see too many 'if's' with this guy. I would have backed away to be honest. And it's not because he has herpes but because how he deals with it. It was the same for my bad knee guy, he wasn't dealing with it, not accepting of it. And the distant, the orange flag with the discussion is already too much.

[charity]

This would be a non issue for me. I recently dated someone for a year. Both of us never had cold sores while we were together in that year but never discussed previous cold sores. We have been broken up now for 4 months and this week I developed a cold sore. It's basically a bump on my lip with a tingle. It doesn't bother me. It's nearly gone already. It's not a sickness. I don't know, I see so many of the population in my country with cold sore...it's like having freckles. I didn't read the whole thread but I read a few people saying life is hard enough without adding this. But I see it differently. Life is hard enough without making small things like this into a big issue. That just my opinion of course.

[Lucia Amman]

Herpes is very different from person to person. And I think TOV has stated enough in this thread that she has health conditions that makes her worrying about catching an oral herpes virus very legitimate. It might cause her much severer problems to have the herpes virus in her body than any 'normal' and more healthy person would have to deal with. Why is this so hard to understand and why are so many people jumping to conclusions with this?

[catfeeder]

I think setting up this plan to meet in person and finding several things that's holding you back should do that: hold you back. There can be so many things in a relationship that will set you off that if you already find some things prior it's just all the more likely that a couple months later it is even more off putting than anything that you'll find out about later.

 

This is well said. I think having private and specific standards for a relationship is healthy. We can see all over these boards the tragic wastes of time and energy that are the consequences of not conceiving carefully enough the most basic question, "What do I want?"

 

When it comes to LDR's, which I'm openly not a fan of in the first place, I would think it's even MORE important to qualify what you want--and do NOT want. While screening in or out local dates can be a hit or miss of little consequence, I'd be ultra-vigilant to spare myself the regret of sinking huge amounts of time, energy, money and emotional investment into someone who's already presented dealbreakers that I just didn't want to see.

[Sportster2005]

If it wasn't for the added burden of TOV's system I think this would be an easier question. I think the idea of shedding is more theoretical with oral herpes. I have been able to find articles on shedding for genital herpes, but not oral. I've had cold sores since I was a kid. I've never spread it, and it's never, ever came up in a relationship, other than don't kiss me when it is active.

 

TOV I know people take Valtrex in order to reduce the risk of spreading genital herpes to their partner. It has been shown to be very effective, with and without a condom. Of course, even better with a condom. But still, excellent odds. If you Google Valtrex/Acyclovir you can probably find a link to the research. I read it a few years ago. I've never heard of someone taking it to avoid spreading oral herpes. People also take it to reduce the severity of outbreaks, both oral and genital. If you meet this chap, might be something to consider. It's an unconventional idea, but you never know.

[Fudgie]

It's a tricky question and I don't believe there's a right answer here. I don't have HS-1 (been tested in a panel) but I realize that I'm in a minority. MOST people have HS-1 and most are not aware of it. However, most people may get a cold sore 1-2x a year or even less because their immune systems are healthy. Despite it being very common, I don't think the answer is just to "suck it up" if you're like TOV and you have some serious immune problems.

 

TOV, I think there's a middle ground somewhere. You really should avoid contracting this virus and work to take steps to avoid it. You said there's an antiviral drug, right? Prevents shedding? Well, there you go: you can ask someone to use that for your own health once you develop a romantic relationship with him. It's not a big deal. I would take that if a partner requested me to. However, I would not bring it up early on in a long distance relationship when you're not together, you haven't met up, and you're still getting to know each other. Asking someone to take a medicine, even hypothetically, so early would probably come on as a little strong and weird.

 

I truly think that someone who cares about you and wants to be with you would not have a problem with it.

[reinventmyself]

I have a friend who has active outbreaks much like your friend. Poor thing is affected by sunlight so imagine her challenges.

 

It's never prevented her from finding a date or partner and she's never passed it on to anyone (that she's sure of)

 

It can be a simple as someone who might feel like theyre coming down with a cold. You might otherwise not kiss your partner if you felt the symptoms. It becomes more about trusting your partner to be responsible about sharing this information.

 

They are both viruses and one has a negative connotation, whereas the other is socially accepted.

[notalady]

Given its prevalence and the fact that a lot of people don't know that they have it, AND the fact that kissing on the cheek is a common form of greeting and it's also common to kiss on the lips on the first few dates when you barely know someone, it's really no wonder that most people have it. I wouldn't be surprised if TOV you've kissed someone with HSV 1 before just didn't know and didn't catch it. It's not a big deal if your immune system can handle it. But if you know it'd be a struggle for you and don't want to take the risk, that's completely reasonable as well.

 

I'm also wondering if you have other concerns about the guy and this is just the last straw.

[tiredofvampires]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful and frank posts. I greatly appreciate the posts from those who have HSV or knew someone with it, about how it's affected you or them. That is really valuable information for me.

 

I will get back to as many posts as I can, but want to keep getting some more responses before slamming the thread with reply posts.

 

Some legitimate issues are being raised, and I'd like to address them generally. Notalady summed up one:

 

I'm also wondering if you have other concerns about the guy and this is just the last straw.

 

Yes, I do have other concerns about him, which were there even before he disclosed this to me. As I mentioned, in the OP and later, he has some personality characteristics that I don't know would be dealbreakers. I have been just quietly taking note of these red flags, without wanting to jump to conclusions or hasty assessments, because the fact of the matter is that they seem to be balanced out almost evenly by things I really like about him. I would advise anyone evaluating a dating prospect not to write people off too fast, and I take my own advice on that.

 

I've said here before that to me, the MOST important aspect of a person is their CHARACTER. From there, personality and interests should line up well enough that there is a good sense of sharing and compatibility, but it all starts with character -- are they honest, kind, possessing integrity, etc. Character, as they say, is what a person would do when no one is watching. And I believe this man checks all the boxes in terms of character, based on the things he's demonstrated and things he's told me that he didn't have to, just to remain an open book. We also have a great deal of interests in common, so much so, that I could see us collaborating professionally or otherwise. We are on similar tracks in life.

 

Of greatest concern to me are the aspects of personality and temperament that don't line up. These include a certain intellectual timidity and lack of conviction, some scatteredness and not being altogether clear on what he feels and believes (he even admits that he "flip flops" a lot), avoidance of potential conflict (not that I'm looking to cause conflict, but conflict avoidant personality types make open discussion problematic), and being in some ways childish and thin-skinned. He is twice-divorced and I don't know why yet (but of course, good people can be divorced, so standing alone, that doesn't say a whole lot.) He has also stated a concern about the distance -- which was almost my cue to call it quits, but he's shown no lack of interest and investment despite that. I do not feel that I'm dealing with someone who has a high tolerance for difficult situations, tough choices, decision-making, or working long and hard on thinking things through -- all of which are qualities I possess and want to see in my partner, partly because I prize inner strength and grit in a person, and partly because I come with some intensity and my situation isn't a complete cake walk, if he was to become part of my life.

 

These might be dealbreakers on their own, but so far, they are just at the "red flag" stage, where I'm standing back and observing how they play out, when balanced with his other very fine qualities, which include humility, ability to admit to faults, sensitivity, ability to apologize, extremely open-minded (almost to a fault), and a level of honesty that is so disarming it is almost naive. These are pretty hard to come by in a man, especially a 54-year-old man. He doesn't have a mean, manipulative, or vindictive bone in his body. So we share some key values. And we also share a sense of humor, and he has skills that complement mine which are very appealing.

 

It would be so much easier if I could just identify one hard-and-fast dealbreaker, but when you juxtapose the "pros" and "cons" about his personality and how that affects our meshing, it becomes really murky.

 

If I were asked today, "Do you feel in your gut that he's your 'soulmate'?" I would say, probably not. But I also think that notion can be romanticized, and the older I get, the more I think so.

 

Unfortunately, the problem with his revelation about herpes is the effect of lowering the bar on what I'd consider dealbreakers -- meaning, I feel that because of my concern about contracting herpes, I may be less tolerant or willing to work with the other aspects about him that otherwise I would be more amenable to. I'm finding myself giving him a shorter piece of rope with those other things than I would otherwise, and I feel disturbed by this effect because I don't want to be judging whether someone is compatible with me based on their having acquired oral herpes during their lifetime. Herpes is not a "compatibility issue" -- it's a medical, health issue. Sadly for me though, it would absolutely DEVASTATE me to catch it, particularly if we broke up and I was now that much older and now with this on top of my other medical problems, which I HAVE been rejected over (even though they do not impact my partner's health, they affect certain activities we can do together and my energy levels.) And as stated, even if I were alone and single, it could have a significant negative impact on my quality of life.

 

It's just so disturbing to me because I want to evaluate a potential match on the basis of compatibility -- the PEOPLE WE ARE. And it's so hard to find the "right person" -- all of us in this dating forum know that. I just don't want this unnaturally pushing me in one direction or the other, but it seems that this has become at very least "a last straw" type of consideration.

 

I just wanted to say that much for now, so that it's clear there are things that could likely be dealbreakers about him, but because there are compensatory good things in the mix, it seems the herpes issue is the only thing so far that is clearly tipping the scales against him, which is pretty upsetting.

 

I expect with more getting to know eachother and time, I would find out if these personality clashes will push us in one direction or the other....but by that time, it seems we'd be having real time together and because there's physical attraction, physical intimacy would come up before I know if the rest is going to be workable.

 

It's just really a crappy situation.

[tiredofvampires]

Given its prevalence and the fact that a lot of people don't know that they have it, AND the fact that kissing on the cheek is a common form of greeting and it's also common to kiss on the lips on the first few dates when you barely know someone, it's really no wonder that most people have it. I wouldn't be surprised if TOV you've kissed someone with HSV 1 before just didn't know and didn't catch it. It's not a big deal if your immune system can handle it. But if you know it'd be a struggle for you and don't want to take the risk, that's completely reasonable as well.

 

That is possible, but in that case, they would probably not have been shedding any virus at that time. So it would have been truly during a period of "latency."

 

Also, I attribute some of my luck and clean bill of health to the fact that:

 

1. I didn't have relatives ignorant enough to kiss me on the face, let alone the lips, when they had cold sores (and what's up with that? I have to say, what kind of fool kisses a young child while suffering a cold sore outbreak?)

 

2. I have not kissed a lot of men casually. When I date, I usually am hanging out with them a good long while before the first kiss, getting to know them, and by then, we have started to discuss sexual intimacy and the "STD test" talk has occurred, with test results usually a byproduct

 

3. None of my partners have tested positive for HSV, either 1 or 2

 

4. I am careful in public not to drink out of other people's bottles, glasses, share utensils casually

 

So I have exercised precautions, and also have been lucky so far. Yes, I have kissed a few men with a little less caution, taking a calculated chance (and seeing nothing on their mouths), but those cases were so few and far in between, the probabilities of contracting it from asymptomatic shedding were low. If I were to repeat that again and again, I would increase my chances of being on the wrong lips at the wrong time. It's just like any gambling act.

 

As I talked to this guy about how and when he thinks he contracted it, he could not answer. He said his mother used to get cold sores, but she was not affectionate enough of a person to have been kissing him. He thinks it's more likely he picked it up in high school and college wrestling, where he said the mat is full of body fluids -- saliva, sweat, blood even. And all parts of the body that are open wounds could be susceptible. I have a whole new dislike of the sport now -- that sounds positively unhygienic and dangerous.

[danslenoir]

I get occasional oral cold sores and have done since a young age.

 

They have never been an issue for me, beyond a mild annoyance whenever I get them, nor for any of the girlfriends I have had over the years. I just avoid kissing whenever I have one, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never passed the virus on to anyone else.

 

After reading your posts, I am not surprised that your love interest has backed off. He's probably wondering how you might deal with a plethora of other potential success barriers that might crop up if you met face-to-face and started to *really* get to know each other, if you make such a big thing out of something he rightly or wrongly perceives as small fry in the grand scheme of things.

 

Personally, given the very high likelihood of matching online with someone who has HSV-1, if I were you and had major concerns around the implications of contracting it, I'd have checked with a medical professional before embarking on looking for a partner. Then you could have decided, armed with the knowledge of what the risks and consequences would be, whether this is a deal-breaker for you and approached things accordingly. If it is a deal-breaker, you could have been upfront about that and politely ended things when you found out that he has the virus, before getting almost to the point of making significant travel commitments to see each other (presumably you have already both invested significant time and energy in getting to know each other, even if just online). If not, you needn't have made such a big deal of it, and just casually mentioned that you are particularly vulnerable and would need to adopt a risk mitigation strategy to avoid it as best you can.

 

If you are immunocompromised to the extent that contracting HSV-1 is going to be a massive problem for you (i.e. serious complications), I'm guessing you have some pretty serious health problems? I wonder therefore whether this (did you reveal it at the same as mentioning the potential HSV-1 issue?) could also perhaps be a reason for why he has backed off i.e. he decided that YOUR health problems were a reason to be less enthusiastic than before or even a deal-breaker? Or perhaps because he was willing to overlook your health problems but you seem to be making a big deal out of his.

[WithLove]

TOV, I would simply ask yourself what's worth more to you - dating someone you know has this virus and will in all likelihood pass it off to you, or your health. You know you battle certain health obstacles already, so really, you have to decide if you're willing to battle one more.

 

Give that it's been a few days since you've posted this, though, I'm wondering if the situation has resolved itself. What has he said about it?

[tiredofvampires]

TOV, I would simply ask yourself what's worth more to you - dating someone you know has this virus and will in all likelihood pass it off to you, or your health. You know you battle certain health obstacles already, so really, you have to decide if you're willing to battle one more.

 

Give that it's been a few days since you've posted this, though, I'm wondering if the situation has resolved itself. What has he said about it?

 

Straight to the points, WithLove.

 

Well, first, the update on our interactions:

 

After that day where he just didn't communicate at all with me (right after "the conversation"), and him pulling back, the next day, we resumed contact and it was again a lively back-and-forth sharing and quipping about music throughout the day.

 

The subject of the cold sores did come up, just briefly -- and it was him saying that he had just decided he didn't want to "dwell on it", that he was just enjoying our enlivening and enlightening conversations.

 

The translation for me was this: "I know it's a problem, that we'd have to deal with it more as it looms closer or this becomes more concrete in real time/in person. But I just don't want to put my energy into it right now, I want to have enjoyable conversations." I should add that from early on, he has referred to me as "my friend", like, "Well, I'm turning in for the night, my friend" and has a pet name for me. I know that doesn't mean he ONLY sees me as a friend, because there has been flirtation sprinkled throughout, and innuendo, and he's also asked me if male friends I'm meeting are "dates" per se, or just totally platonic friends. (And like I said, the door is open still for us to date others, with the agreement that if it gets promising with someone else, we will let the other know.)

 

About our overall dynamic: we did agree in the beginning, and were on the same page with this, that regardless of what "fate" has in store, we were going to build a friendship because if we were to become partners, we both want to feel that it is grounded in being best friends. It's just a model we aspire to. So there has been a LOT of friendship type sharing along the way, not just "does this make me look appealing to the person as partner material" stuff. That has really added a refreshing layer of candor and not trying too hard to impress one another -- and I feel that has helped us not manipulate our images to create unrealistic fantasy visions of each other.

 

So we have just continued in that vein, and have been communicating regularly since the awkward talk about the cold sores, about topics light and deeper.

 

I'm feeling very torn about this for a number of reasons. For one, I don't mean to "dwell" on the health issue as if it's the only thing that matters. There are lots of reasons to keep enjoying sharing the things we share. But let's face it, if we ARE still thinking mutually about getting to romantic status (and I strongly feel it's still on the table), I don't want to shove this under the rug. And I'm worrying that this is just another example of him wanting to take the easy way out instead of facing the "what if's" and speaking directly to it, the possible ways we might work with it, and most of all, start addressing our differences that may not make us compatible for other reasons. If I found out he was going go vote for a certain Presidential candidate, for instance, that would in all likelihood be a dealbreaker, because it would be an extreme example of not sharing my values. But that conversation he deflected. And he's deflected other things where it was uncomfy to talk about something of a philosophical nature, or something where he'd have to confront either his lack of knowledge or lack of agreement with me.

 

I think right now, he just wants to coast with the easy stuff. And I'm going along with it, because I am not sure what my strategy should be.

 

I don't want to just sit down with an agenda and start rattling off all the things we have to work out or figure out. Have a heavy conversation with a heavy itinerary. But all things taken together DO make a difference to my decision-making.

 

It's not a black-and-white decision, even though it's true, WithLove, that the idea he could likely pass it on to me is strong, and my health being more compromised is a very strong factor on one side of the scales.

 

Since I posted this thread, I have: researched his medication options, long-term effects, side effects, what kinds of dental dams are out there that would be hypollergenic, statistics, asymptomatic shedding rates, I've posted this thread, I've made an appointment with one specialist (my gyn, who knows my health history well) and plan on making another with my GP, an infectious disease doctor, and a couple other of the docs who have followed me over the years. I want data from as many places as I can get. I have been talking to 3 different mental health counselors that address various specialized issues. So I have been PREPARING MYSELF, arming myself with information, trying to get the straight dope, the statistics of actual risk, looking at protective measures, getting opinions and stories (on here)....

 

And what has he done? He's gone on as though it was out of sight, out of mind. This dilemma is not going to go away, he's just chosen to put it to the side. I don't sense it's because he's not interested in furthering our relationship, but to be honest, I don't know how to view this. My sense is that he thinks it will just become less of a deal the more we focus on other things, but that's not the reaction my "type" of man would take. I would like for him, if he's interested in meeting me in a couple of months, to be doing his own preliminary fact-checking, going to his doctor to ask the same questions I'm asking, etc. Why should it be all on me to investigate all this?

 

It's not a good sign, but then again, he might perceive that as premature because we haven't met yet. Of course, by the time we meet and want to kiss, it would be late in the game for him to start doing his research.

 

We're just not putting in the same thought and effort into facing the question, even though our conversations are going swimmingly. So swimmingly, I'm loathe to broach this, put it back on the table. So I am quietly doing my own research and investigation. But I feel pretty alone in it, when we should be a team, if he wants to further this with me.

[WithLove]

The fact that he's putting an important issue like this on the backburner and isn't inclined to discuss it says, to me, that he's not serious anymore about you two becoming more than friends.

 

If he grasped just a fraction of what you've told us in this thread, he'd know what an important topic this is. Perhaps it wouldn't be to a lot of people, but because it's you, you being a woman he has considered a romantic relationship with, then I would think he'd know that this needs to be addressed.

 

It doesn't seem as if it's a good idea to go forward, if you're going to have to speak with 3+ doctors about the implications of just a kiss.

 

His lack of information about something that he has, and his unwillingness to discuss it with you, send up red flags all over the place.

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours, of course. But if you've been talking with this guy for 2 months and he hasn't yet grasped your affinity for research, and the results it brings, then I would think he is not worthy of you.

[reinventmyself]

And what has he done? He's gone on as though it was out of sight, out of mind. This dilemma is not going to go away, he's just chosen to put it to the side.

 

I am not sure it makes him irresponsible. It may have just been a non issue for him up until now.

He's likely sensing the importance it has for you and is protecting himself from becoming further attached.

[tiredofvampires]

Kind of working my way backward with the posts...

 

I get occasional oral cold sores and have done since a young age.

 

They have never been an issue for me, beyond a mild annoyance whenever I get them, nor for any of the girlfriends I have had over the years. I just avoid kissing whenever I have one, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never passed the virus on to anyone else.

 

After reading your posts, I am not surprised that your love interest has backed off. He's probably wondering how you might deal with a plethora of other potential success barriers that might crop up if you met face-to-face and started to *really* get to know each other, if you make such a big thing out of something he rightly or wrongly perceives as small fry in the grand scheme of things.

 

Personally, given the very high likelihood of matching online with someone who has HSV-1, if I were you and had major concerns around the implications of contracting it, I'd have checked with a medical professional before embarking on looking for a partner. Then you could have decided, armed with the knowledge of what the risks and consequences would be, whether this is a deal-breaker for you and approached things accordingly. If it is a deal-breaker, you could have been upfront about that and politely ended things when you found out that he has the virus, before getting almost to the point of making significant travel commitments to see each other (presumably you have already both invested significant time and energy in getting to know each other, even if just online). If not, you needn't have made such a big deal of it, and just casually mentioned that you are particularly vulnerable and would need to adopt a risk mitigation strategy to avoid it as best you can.

 

Thank you for the input, dan. I know it's a longish post and I don't know if you've read it, but in post #41 above, I try to explain the nuances of why this is not a clear-cut "dealbreaker" in that I may or may not be able to imagine taking the risk for a person who I feel very strongly about as being a potential lifetime partner. But I'd have to be a lot surer than most people feel in the early stages, so it's like being between a rock and a hard places.

 

Therefore, going to the doctor would probably do little to sway me, even if I had ALL the facts (which I don't yet -- I do need more medical perspective and working knowledge, ,so as I said in my above post, I'm going to visit more doctors). So far, my therapists (2 of them, working with women's issues and health) both said that there is a real risk to me, there is no question about that, that I will contract it and have consequences. The extent of that ultimately is unknown. A doctor might be able to more clearly state what the worst case scenario might be, or the best. But in the end, a doctor will leave me alone with this decision, just as if I was entering a relationships with someone with another health condition or STD like HIV. Some people who are HIV negative love their partner enough to take that risk, even though, look at those high stakes. Most people don't want to take those risks, even though now, HIV is no longer a lifetime sentence. You can live a reasonably normal life with HIV with a normal lifespan if you're on medications all the time.

 

So I can't know this person and all the reasons to take a risk before it's all clear to me. You can see what is best until you see it, you know what I'm saying? Going into this, I did not have some black/white template, so as to approach the topic with an either/or response to him. And frankly, I didn't give the issue much thought before this, even though I feared the hypothetical situation of a guy with any type of herpes. But I figured I wouldn't really worry about it until I had to "cross that bridge". And now it's here.

 

Bottom line is: it's mostly a dealbreaker in the context of what other dealbreakers exist. It's not a dealbreaker completely in isolation of everything else, as smoking would be or having morbid obesity. Life is messy, and this is a fantastic example of that.

 

If you are immunocompromised to the extent that contracting HSV-1 is going to be a massive problem for you (i.e. serious complications), I'm guessing you have some pretty serious health problems? I wonder therefore whether this (did you reveal it at the same as mentioning the potential HSV-1 issue?) could also perhaps be a reason for why he has backed off i.e. he decided that YOUR health problems were a reason to be less enthusiastic than before or even a deal-breaker? Or perhaps because he was willing to overlook your health problems but you seem to be making a big deal out of his.

 

I don't know that I'd get "serious complications". I have some serious health problems, enough to affect various aspects of my life, enough to be on disability. A lot of my health issues get worse though with stress, which is ironically generated by the very issues involved with having a disability and the barriers up around that. I could see a life where my health improves, and so my immune system could improve also, because the immune system is fluid. What's not clear is how much, and how an HSV infection would affect me. I don't think any doctor has a crystal ball to tell me how often or severely I will have outbreaks if I get it, compared to the average person, and how much I will be shedding to be a danger to some partner of mine.

 

I have been completely upfront with him about nearly all aspects of my health issues, but he was aware of them long before he told me he had HSV-1. Is it possible that he would find my health issues and concerns about his HSV status a reason to back off from me? Sure. He could find someone who isn't as worried, or concerned. Of course, if we were a couple, it would not be "his issue", nor would my problems me "my issue" -- they would be "OUR issue". And we would have to view it that way to be a team.

 

So yes, it's possible that at any time he could reject me for my issues and in fact in the beginning, when I said I may not be able to do rugged hikes with him and lots of outdoor sports, he left open the possibility that might not work for him. So I was the first one on the hot seat, and I put myself there.

[tiredofvampires]

The fact that he's putting an important issue like this on the backburner and isn't inclined to discuss it says, to me, that he's not serious anymore about you two becoming more than friends.

 

If he grasped just a fraction of what you've told us in this thread, he'd know what an important topic this is. Perhaps it wouldn't be to a lot of people, but because it's you, you being a woman he has considered a romantic relationship with, then I would think he'd know that this needs to be addressed.

 

It doesn't seem as if it's a good idea to go forward, if you're going to have to speak with 3+ doctors about the implications of just a kiss.

 

His lack of information about something that he has, and his unwillingness to discuss it with you, send up red flags all over the place.

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours, of course. But if you've been talking with this guy for 2 months and he hasn't yet grasped your affinity for research, and the results it brings, then I would think he is not worthy of you.

 

Oh, ha, he has definitely grasped my affinity for research -- he even said, during our Skype talk, when he said, "What are we gonna do about it?" I said, well we have to research. Research more. And he said, "I know you are good at that," somewhat implying I would do it justice, and I left that convo feeling like...okaaay, so it's up to me to do all the heavy lifting with this...?

 

I'm not judging anyone for having oral cold sores. But nor do I think my issue with it is ONLY my problem to figure out if we are both involved in the risks and decisions and consequences.

 

I do think though that he has taken seriously the fact that I am at risk, even understands some of my health issues (because he's shifting his career from IT into a healthcare specialty) and he may even be afraid of giving it to me, and doesn't want to have to bear that guilt later, which I could understand.

 

It doesn't seem as if it's a good idea to go forward, if you're going to have to speak with 3+ doctors about the implications of just a kiss.

 

Why not? If it's a matter of finding a lifetime partner, which has been hard for me?

 

But it's not just kissing. It's that it is spread easily to the genitals. Having intimate relations with him would mean having to use dental dams for oral sex ALL the time, even when he is not having an outbreak, because of the possibility of shedding viral DNA when there are no symptoms.

 

That is one thing that some posters seem to be missing in this equation, and I wonder if educational factors play into why people take this less seriously than HSV-2. There is nothing inherently "worse" about HSV-2. It just occurs more often on the genitals, from genital-to-genital contact, but 50% of new cases of genital herpes come from ORAL TRANSMISSION OF THE VIRUS.

 

I will say this, that my favorite parts of the "sexual menu" all relate to the mouth, from kissing on to receiving/giving. So a mouth is about the most important thing on a man to me, in this domain. Meaning, this would not be just a matter of putting on a condom for penetration, this is about EVERYTHING sensual that I love about intimacy being in some way compromised.

 

Would I do it for the person I want to grow old with? I DON'T FREAKIN KNOW. And we don't know if he's that man. There are other fish in the sea -- but until I get to know them, I don't know if they have the same thing going on.

[WithLove]

Looks like, if you toss this fish back, your OLD profiles will have to start stating "cannot have HSV-1 or 2". Haha...