Dating Someone with Oral Herpes

[tiredofvampires]

Looks like, if you toss this fish back, your OLD profiles will have to start stating "cannot have HSV-1 or 2". Haha...

 

I would definitely not put that in there. Way too specific, private, and gives off a terrible and slightly bizarre vibe. I'm thinking how would I feel if I saw that on someone's profile, even though I am STI-free, and I would think that's kind of strange and off-putting. You could put off a lot of people with no HSV-1 or 2 with something as bad-vibey as that, as they have no idea of who I am or my circumstances. Some people DO say, "Must be STD free", but if it were that cut and dried, I would have thrown this fish back in. I don't make a habit of writing my dealbreakers in my profiles, or writing about what I don't want, just what I do want.

 

In the abstract, I would not date someone who has done serious prison time. But then again, I've seen stories of people who did that, and turned their lives around to become not just productive citizens, but outspoken members of society for reform and justice. So sight unseen, it is hard for me to state any dealbreakers.

 

I think the only one would be current substance abuse of any kind. I mean, that is the only one I can think of where NOTHING else would outweigh that on the positive side.

[WithLove]

Then, it's not a dealbreaker. I think you just have to talk it over with him and see if he's comfortable with all the stipulations of being with you since he has it. (Dental dams, condoms, etc.)

 

Which still takes a lot of the pleasure out of it for you both.

 

Personally, for you, TOV, I think it IS a dealbreaker. Just because you would forever have to be cautious, even more so than maybe most people would be.

[tiredofvampires]

And by the way, if I met someone in person, I would not say to them as we start flirting, "By the way, before this goes any further -- do you have cold sores anywhere?" Right? I mean, who does that?

 

I would still be in this position, right?

 

So I'm trying to replicate how I'd do things if I met someone and didn't know everything about them...online dating is just a doorway into getting to know someone...

[WithLove]

But you're NOT meeting locally. You're doing LDR to move - did I remember that correctly? So in reality, this is a topic that you actually could bring up before interacting with the person.

[tiredofvampires]

And what has he done? He's gone on as though it was out of sight, out of mind. This dilemma is not going to go away, he's just chosen to put it to the side.

 

I am not sure it makes him irresponsible. It may have just been a non issue for him up until now.

He's likely sensing the importance it has for you and is protecting himself from becoming further attached.

 

I think this is a pretty good assessment. I think he just has never given it much thought, and since at least one other partner (his last) had it too, they considered it a non-issue.

 

Now that it's on the table, I think he's just shrinking from the implications. I agree that he's protecting himself. I also think he feels somewhat ashamed now for having it, which I have tried my best to antidote in the words I've said and the way I didn't grill him hard.

 

But he has bounced back, in terms of communicating with me and sharing dialogue, and so I'm not sure about the attachment thing. The bonding continues.

 

I think he just is an avoidant type of person, not just about this, but about other issues, and perhaps that will end up being the dealbreaker for me, because a man has to be able to face things head on in my books. Not confrontationally, but skillfully. I don't want to feel like I have to dance around his anxieties or wanting to be an ostrich with its head in the sand, about this or other things.

 

But on this one topic, I do feel it's dicey and sensitive -- as you can see from some of the posts o this thread. So feeling defensive and self-protective, I am trying to make room for that. It's new territory for him. Maybe he just doesn't want to face the ramifications.

 

Like I said, 50% of new genital herpes infections are acquired from HSV-1. That is true for anyone, it doesn't have to be someone immunosuppressed. I have to wonder if most people knew this, they would think of oral cold sores differently. I think use of dental dams is considered extreme -- but the fact is, all the resources I've read say, you use a condom to protect against HSV-2, and dental dams for HSV-1 (if performing on a woman) and a condom for oral on a man. I'm quoting the experts on this, as general precautions. I wonder why more people are either not aware of this, or don't care. My guess is that HSV-2 has carried so much stigma, it's blinded people to the fact that there is almost no different between the two strains of herpes, except their point of original contact and tissue they tend to prefer.

[reinventmyself]

I am not sure it makes him irresponsible

 

I say this because my friend who has it doesn't disclose it up front. Your friend did.

Do I condone it? No.

But when she is seeing someone and feels one coming on and responsibly tells them, does it cause them to hesitate or reconsider?

Not that I know of, but they do have that option.

 

No one's run away from her yet.

She hasn't passed it on either.

Has she read up on it and all the statistics? I cannot say to be absolutely sure, but I can safely doubt it.

 

It's just been a non issue for her and easily managed.

Maybe much like your friend.

[tiredofvampires]

But you're NOT meeting locally. You're doing LDR to move - did I remember that correctly? So in reality, this is a topic that you actually could bring up before interacting with the person.

 

Well, the distance isn't the issue though. It would seem to be, and it can confuse a lot in this picture, but it's not the crux of the issue. When you decide to have this kind of conversation depends more on how much trust you're building, how promising the match seems, how much of a "click" there is, etc. You don't have an STD conversation with someone from the start, let alone come in the door making announcements about it at a party, because it's not an appropriate time to. The distance doesn't make it more or less appropriate. So yes, it's an LDR (in the making), as is anyone I meet online who isn't local, but that's still not gonna be the first thing out of my mouth for all the reasons it wouldn't be if I met them in person and we were having a first few coffees and dates. I also have PTSD and haven't mentioned that to him, and would not expect anyone to tell that to me until a lot of potential was already there (and I haven't told him about that either, as a side note).

 

The distance comes into play more in terms of how we both deal with separations, and how we plan to coordinate visits and "test run" living together -- which are very significant issues.

 

Everything else is a gamble of investment, love, and risk the same way as if we'd met organically offline.

[tiredofvampires]

Then, it's not a dealbreaker. I think you just have to talk it over with him and see if he's comfortable with all the stipulations of being with you since he has it. (Dental dams, condoms, etc.)

 

Which still takes a lot of the pleasure out of it for you both.

 

Personally, for you, TOV, I think it IS a dealbreaker. Just because you would forever have to be cautious, even more so than maybe most people would be.

 

Well, I can't disagree with anything you've said here. Dental dams, barriers (even condoms, if I go down on him after kissing him), just waiting for the other shoe to drop. How spontaneous and good would it all be after that? It's just kind of my worst fear that someone I really click with would be carrying this virus.

 

BUT BUT BUT -- most posters here say it's not been a problem and they have not passed it onto partners (I don't know if they've just gotten lucky, and how long they were with their partners?), the chances of transmission if he's on medication would possibly make a difference (I really have to consult with doctors/virologists to get more hardcore takes on this), and I REALLY, REALLY, REALLLLY like MANY things about him. I see so much that we could share and collaborate on, and despite his avoidant style, he is someone who admits he has flaws and wants to deal with them. That said, I'm not looking to "fix" someone.

 

I'm afraid I'm facing a terrible choice here. I'm wanting someone to tell me, "it's okay, you'll be fine." But the risk is real, it's not going away.

[WithLove]

TOV, why hasn't he asked his own doctors about medications and such? Why do you have to be the one to do this? That's the part I don't like.

[reinventmyself]

Well . .at this point you haven't even met him

If you don't have an answer yet then wait, one will come to you.

Go ahead and meet him. That may push you closer to an answer one way or another.

[tiredofvampires]

TOV, why hasn't he asked his own doctors about medications and such? Why do you have to be the one to do this? That's the part I don't like.

 

Thank you for saying that -- I feel that his way of handling it is adding to the "con" side of the evaluation for me. Like I said, why is it all up to me, if he's serious enough to keep committing time to knowing me this much? He clearly hasn't taken romance with me off the table, just this weekend, I went out to dinner with a male friend from out of town, and he asked me if this was more a "date" or just a friendship thing.

 

I don't like it either. All he said was, "I don't want to dwell on it now, I just want to focus on the great conversations we're having, sharing and the like."

 

YEAH, well, WHEN ARE YOU GOING to give it time and consideration and DO something to find out what your/our options are???

 

I don't know when or how to bring this up to him. I don't want to be confrontational, but I feel resentment building. So far, I'm just silently taking it in as more "evidence" of how he behaves. In a sort of strange way, I'd almost rather not bring it up to him to see how long he ignores it. That's information, too.

 

Then again, I can't be sure he hasn't consulted someone or done any research on his own. I'm about 99% sure he hasn't, but it's not impossible either. I just wish it was a joint effort at this point, now that it's out of the bag and we have a REAL chance of meeting, if we have a will to.

 

If I just let this slide, would he wait for the first kiss to address it?

[tiredofvampires]

I am not sure it makes him irresponsible

 

I say this because my friend who has it doesn't disclose it up front. Your friend did.

Do I condone it? No.

But when she is seeing someone and feels one coming on and responsibly tells them, does it cause them to hesitate or reconsider?

Not that I know of, but they do have that option.

 

No one's run away from her yet.

She hasn't passed it on either.

Has she read up on it and all the statistics? I cannot say to be absolutely sure, but I can safely doubt it.

 

It's just been a non issue for her and easily managed.

Maybe much like your friend.

 

So she doesn't tell men she is kissing that she has it, until and unless she's getting an outbreak?

 

You know for a fact that she hasn't passed it on? (you can pass it on and someone will not manifest symptoms, even if they are now seropositive)

 

You can carry the virus and never have an outbreak. But every time I've asked my doctor to run a full STD panel, they test for both HSV-1 and HSV-2. Not just HSV-2. And if I were ever to come up positive for either of these, I would disclose this to my partner from the beginning. I actually think it's harder to have HSV-1 in the sense that you'd have to disclose it sooner because kissing is just first base, and it takes more to get to the other bases, more time to let the relationship ripen. At least for most people.

 

I wonder if your friend has HSV-2 if anyone would have run from her?

 

Please note, I'm NOT stigmatizing anyone with either 1 or 2, I'm just saying that I think the public perception of these two strains is a little misinformed and based on some culturally concocted fears, rather than facts. Many people would worry the way I am, if their prospective lover disclosed they had HSV-2, and that would be considered legitimate.

[tiredofvampires]

Well . .at this point you haven't even met him

If you don't have an answer yet then wait, one will come to you.

Go ahead and meet him. That may push you closer to an answer one way or another.

 

That is almost word-for-word what one of my therapists said.

 

I'm just someone who has a lot of anticipatory anxiety if I don't know how I'm going to deal with "x" situation. I'm a planner, a strategizer. "If there is a problem, solve it. If you can't, find the plan B. Do the flow chart in your head." So this is waaaaay against my grain.

 

I just don't feel I have any other options but this free fall thing...

 

Unless I meet someone fantastic in the meantime who starts to feel like an even better match...but I'm not good at this multi-dating juggling thing. THAT is where distance becomes very hard, too.

 

And like I said, with >50% of the population with this virus, who's to say the next guy won't have it, too.

 

 

AGAGHAGAGHAGHGGHGHGHG!!!!!

[reinventmyself]

You know for a fact that she hasn't passed it on? (you can pass it on and someone will not manifest symptoms, even if they are now seropositive)

 

 

 

I wonder if your friend has HSV-2 if anyone would have run from her?

 

.

I don't know anything for certain. We've been best friends for 35 years and I imagine if it was so I would know about it.

Or she would at least

 

HSV 2 is another story. I know people that have that too and that's a little trickier.

One friend has had 2 marraiges of long duration and never passed it anyone. .that I know of.

 

At least with an oral sore it's close to impossible to hide.

Genital - easily hidden.

 

I think it has a lot more to do with trust and character than the virus itself.

That's the point I think I am trying to make.

 

And I think the numbers of those who do carry it and do not know are much higher than quoted.

[reinventmyself]

We can take this one step further. (just in case we never want to leave our drive way again)

 

HPV is just a prevalent (or maybe more) and there are no tests or symptoms for men.

 

So men can be carriers of that and they'll never know and no way to find out, until it's too late.

[Itchy]

We can take this one step further. (just in case we never want to leave our drive way again)

 

HPV is just a prevalent (or maybe more) and there are no tests or symptoms for men.

 

So men can be carriers of that and they'll never know and no way to find out, until it's too late.

 

That's scary.

 

If men show no symptoms, how do they get diagnosed then? Is it found just by chance or when screening for other STI/STD's?

 

I'll have to search what the repercussions are for long-term infection.

[reinventmyself]

That's scary.

 

If men show no symptoms, how do they get diagnosed then? Is it found just by chance or when screening for other STI/STD's?

 

I'll have to search what the repercussions are for long-term infection.

 

When their girlfriend has her yearly exam and tells him `we need to talk'

 

There are 100's of strains. Some go, some stay. Some are insignificant, some cause cancer. (for women)

[Itchy]

When their girlfriend has her yearly exam and tells him `we need to talk'

 

There are 100's of strains. Some go, some stay. Some are insignificant, some cause cancer. (for women)

 

Deary me, I'm so glad I'm a virgin and I think I might just stay one.

[tiredofvampires]

That's scary.

 

If men show no symptoms, how do they get diagnosed then? Is it found just by chance or when screening for other STI/STD's?

 

I'll have to search what the repercussions are for long-term infection.

 

I don't know if you're male or female...?

 

The thing about HPV -- which is by far the most common STI/STD, moreso than HSV -- is that in most cases, the body's immune system eventually fights it off. This is true for both men and women. So if you have a healthy immune system or a weaker strain, you will be in the majority of people who will eventually overcome the virus. It's not permanently with you in these cases, as HSV is. Herpes is forever -- HPV is often not. So that's a ray of relief and hope.

 

Also, there are vaccines you can take for HPV. You are only immunizing yourself against 4 strains -- 2 are the most prevalent cancer-causing ones, and 2 are ones that are more annoying types that cause genital warts. It's true there are hundreds more, and I've talked to health practitioners who thought that the shots weren't all that inclusive, and you also do need to re-take/update them, as they become less effective over a few years. But there is at least a vaccine for you to look into, which isn't the case for herpes, which there is no vaccine for. Public health professionals and pediatricians are now pushing for HPV vaccines in teens, even pre-teens. You can be male or female to get the vaccine.

 

There is no way of screening or testing a man for HPV because it could be anywhere on his penile skin (or scrotum -- which is not covered by a condom, so the reason for some risk of contact). There is no blood test for it. Now though, it is more commonly being found to cause cell abnormalities (pre-cancer) in people's throats. See: Michael Douglas, who attributes his throat cancer ordeal to oral-sex acquired HPV.

 

The reason HPV doesn't scare me as much is because of the fact that in a healthy man, his system would likely eventually fight it off -- and even though I am immune compromised, so my chances of getting cancer are higher and my body less likely to fight it off, there is still that chance, if I do a ton of immune-boosting therapy. I might still lick it.

 

Also, using condoms is a good way to reduce chances of getting HPV, particularly of the cervix. There is only one way to get cervical cancer from HPV: for a man with it on his penis to transfer it there, and so a condom, while not foolproof and 100% insurance, is a good way to avoid this.

 

I see penis-in-vagina sex as the most scary act if you are not protected -- for STD's and pregnancy. But if you are protected, it is probably the easiest act in terms of staying safe -- it's a very site-specific, organ-specific act. You can kind of compartmentalize/isolate it better. All the other goodies that come with sex, kissing, foreplay, etc. is a much wider field of activity, (and with HSV-1, there is also common everyday contact too, which the jigsup mentioned in her post) so I see it as much harder to control outcomes and there are more risky types of behavior that are easily done. Like oral sex...who wants to use a dental dam in the heat of the moment in some spontaneous situation?

 

There IS actually a test for HPV, for women. Regularly, you get annual pap tests, to make sure your cervical cells are normal. If they are not, HPV is suspected, as that's the main cause of abnormal cell growth (pre-cancer). However, the cells can be stained and tested specifically for HPV after that. In a very high-risk situation, a doctor can actually order this kind of specialized test, though it's not routine. Since I have immune problems, once my doctor had this test run on me, and it was negative, and I have not had sex since then, so I know that I am not harboring HPV. I am literally free of everything.

 

After I'm in a long-term committed relationship for a few years, I could hope to take the condoms off during sex -- I HAAAAAATE them (and I'm sure I'd equally hate dental dams). By then, if my partner had HPV, his body might be rid of it. With HSV, you're never safe without a condom, even between outbreaks. So this is why I'm a lot more concerned about HSV than HPV.

[tiredofvampires]

When their girlfriend has her yearly exam and tells him `we need to talk'

 

Well, this wouldn't diagnose a male partner with HPV. Because a woman could have contracted HPV from many years ago with another partner, it laid dormant in her cells for years, and then later in life it turns into abnormal cells. So girlfriends and wives can't pin HPV on their current partner, as they have no idea at what point in time they contracted the virus and from whom.

[reinventmyself]

Well, this wouldn't diagnose a male partner with HPV. Because a woman could have contracted HPV from many years ago with another partner, it laid dormant in her cells for years, and then later in life it turns into abnormal cells. So girlfriends and wives can't pin HPV on their current partner, as they have no idea at what point in time they contracted the virus and from whom.

 

True. . and we can get into the whole `what came first' debate. Suffice to say if one has it the other one likely does to.

Where it originated from is up for grabs.

[reinventmyself]

Also, there are vaccines you can take for HPV.

 

If you are ages 16 thru 26

 

( I have clearly read too much on these subjects!)

[tiredofvampires]

Also, there are vaccines you can take for HPV.

 

If you are ages 16 thru 26

 

( I have clearly read too much on these subjects!)

 

Aren't you a mom, reinvent? I would be up on this if I were a mom, too!

 

You can get a vaccine at any age -- they aren't going to bar you from taking it if you're over 26. It's just RECOMMENDED, based on epidemological studies of highest age prevalence, in that age range.

 

If you are over 26, it's less likely your insurance will pay for it is all, and you'd have to cough up a few hundred dollars. Peace of mind can be worth a lot though.

 

But for you, Itchy, if you are a virgin, male or female, this would be a good option for you to consider as so far, you have not been exposed. You are a good candidate.

 

Here is an article that clarifies this matter:

 

/

 

"There is nothing wrong with getting the HPV vaccine over the age of 26, although in most countries that will mean you have to pay for it yourself. It just means the older you are the less likely you will get the full protection as the risk increases with age that you have already been exposed. Women over the age of 26 who are most likely to benefit would never have had an abnormal Pap smear, have no history of Chlamydia, and have less than three lifetime sex partners. However, 45% of women between the ages of 30 and 39 with a history of high-grade dysplasia will still be negative for HPV 16 and 18 and so almost half will get protection from the HPV vaccine. Australia, a real leader in the fight against HPV, recommends the vaccine for women up to the age of 45. If you want to eradicate the virus getting as many people covered as possible is the way to go."

 

I also notice in this article, which is recent, that the new vaccine is protective against 9 strains of the virus, not just 4. So that's an improvement.

[reinventmyself]

Aren't you a mom, reinvent? I would be up on this if I were a mom, too!

 

I am!

 

Good info on the vaccine. Apparently I didn't read that far. .lol

And I obviously don't have daughters!

[judithhz]

Too long to read

Do you mean cold sore?

I have cold sore some times and I am a virgin... So this type is nothing to do with sex. My doctor said majority of people has this but it only breaks out on a portion of them especially when they are tired or weak.