8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[boltnrun]

He txted me last night and I responded this morning cheerfully…I'm slammed busy this weekend so I didn't want to commence any type of talk until things have settled down on my side.

 

There's never going to be a perfect time for a "talk".

 

You can find a zillion excuses to put it off.

 

And I guess you decided not to implement your plan of ignoring him and not seeing him anymore?

[ThatwasThen]

He txted me last night and I responded this morning cheerfully…I'm slammed busy this weekend so I didn't want to commence any type of talk until things have settled down on my side.

 

I believe that's good thinking... You want to be resolved and in charge of your emotional self and right now you've been also busy processing everything you read here and weighing it against what your personal friends have been telling you.

 

We all have our own timetable when it comes to this sort of thing...Just don't let things coast indefinitely because that will just make it seem more daunting as you over think it.

[Naomi99]

I can't be mean to someone who doesn't even know how I feel.

 

I thought about it all night and then decided to respond this morning.

 

And I can still choose not to respond later if I change my mind.

 

(That was directed to boltnrun)

[boltnrun]

I can't be mean to someone who doesn't even know how I feel.

 

I thought about it all night and then decided to respond this morning.

 

And I can still choose not to respond later if I change my mind.

 

(That was directed to boltnrun)

 

Actually I'm not 100% in favor of the "no response" plan. Because to me it's almost like slinking out the back door to avoid asking for what you want.

 

Would you rather give up before you even try? Can you at least give him the chance to say "yes" or "no thanks" to more involvement?

[reinventmyself]

I can't imagine how you will handle this but what I am pretty certain is that you won't be able to return to the way it used to be. I think you know that.

Good luck this weekend!

[Naomi99]

Would you rather give up before you even try? Can you at least give him the chance to say "yes" or "no thanks" to more involvement?

 

if he says "yes" to more involvement, you think that will really change anything? I doubt it. He's still going to be finicky and inconsiderate and won't let me spend the night, except now I'll just have the title. Why do you think his relationships all expire under a year? Because no woman would put up with that BS!

 

I think how he behaves now is going to be the best he will ever be. Of course, I'm making generalizations. I just don't see him ever having my best interest as a priority. Which is really weird because he's a doctor and you'd think he's made life-threatening decisions on behalf of patients, so why wouldn't he care about the well-being of his sweetie or care about making me happy?

 

Anyway I just don't believe he wants more. I haven't seen him since Sunday, and we texted less than 25 words today (Friday) with zero plans to see each other in the future. That is not the behavior of someone in love. Unless that's the way middled-age men date.

 

Also we weren't intimate on Sunday….that makes it almost two weeks since we had sex. Not sure if that means anything.

[abitbroken]

You said he doesn't love you - well - what guy keeps chasing after a woman who NEVER reciprocates? There must be something there. He is not undifferent.

 

 

 

Ok, his sweetie seems very happy - laughing, pleasant conversation, making dinner - when she is with him. You have never, ever told him anything you are unhappy about and to boot, you are dating other guys, or at least were, even if you are sexually exclusive, so how does he know there is anything unhappy? You never call him to ask to see him more either. You are dragging your heels - making this big case about how inconsiderate he is, yet you never speak up because you don't want to have to. You want him to be a mindreader and for some reason like the narrative of being the over giver to the insensitive oaf. To some people, they don't care if someone parks in the middle of their driveway. They simple pull in behind them. Some people like to bring the ingredients for dinner because they like to shoo others out of the kitchen because they don't want anyone messing up their process.

 

At some point you are going to have to find your voice. i know that on my end, I make things bigger in my mind than they are and I am guilty of that , too, but i have learned to speak up about little things before they turn big.

 

 

BY, what does more involvement mean. You have to give him a description. You are sexually exclusive. Okay - check. Now, ask him out for dinner or a date. YOU do the asking. THAT is how more involvement happens. it just happens. ANd after you are confident enough to do that and have that start to happen - then you can talk about where he sees your relationship going.

Honestly, he might not know what to say because he could be shocked because he assumes you don't want more.

 

Or don't - and end it. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but you are defending your choice about doing absolutely nothing - its either communicating what your wants or needs are with him and being prepared for the reaction (he could surprise you...or not). or communicating your wants and needs and telling him that is the reason you don't want to see him anymore

[abitbroken]

btw, I am not trying to push you into a relationship that you don't want. This is more about finding your voice and setting your boundaries - a life skill that you need whether this relationship becomes something you DO want after that, or something you don't want and end.

[ThatwasThen]

Which is really weird because he's a doctor and you'd think he's made life-threatening decisions on behalf of patients, so why wouldn't he care about the well-being of his sweetie or care about making me happy?

No... if you think about it he's being exactly like a doctor by remaining detached. If they become too emotional towards a patient that he is operating on (as an e.g.) how do you think he would take it if he lost them on the operating table? Not just that patient but over the years he'd lose his mind if he couldn't remain detached.

 

Medical and paramedics as well as nurses, police and fire fighters all have a wall that they put up to protect the Id.

 

My mother once spent an extended period of time in a Intensive care unit. As I visited her day to day I saw a lot of resuscitation attempts on other patients while the nurses and doctor discussed whose turn it was to bring in the donuts and coffee tomorrow.

 

Adding:

btw, I am not trying to push you into a relationship that you don't want. This is more about finding your voice and setting your boundaries - a life skill that you need whether this relationship becomes something you DO want after that, or something you don't want and end.

 

Yes... knowledge to take forward that will serve you well in your next adventure in dating when/if this perpetual booty call situation you're now in fizzles out. Which I think it may because now that your thread has been somewhat successful in removing the rose tint from your glasses... you're seeing a little more clearly now.

[toolovehim]

I just don't see him ever having my best interest as a priority. Why wouldn't he care about the well-being of his sweetie or care about making me happy?

that makes it almost two weeks since we had sex. Not sure if that means anything.

Because he doesn't love you, and he may have other women in the mix. He can do whatever he wants. He gives you the bare-minimum until he finds new one. It started in his term and it may end in his term as well.

 

Leave or stay, it doesn't matter to you because you hasn't have the control. You never really had him at the first place and you won't "lose" him because you never have him.

[reinventmyself]

"" Medical and paramedics as well as nurses, police and fire fighters all have a wall that they put up to protect the Id. ""

 

No and no. I jump in when it goes this direction. My ex a firefighter, my son is one and I work with doctors.

This is not is "out"

 

This is HIS personality and dating dynamic, work vocation aside.

As a tenured 50 something physician I am pretty certain is he has the luxury of more time off then most of.

I keep saying this because making excuses for him may have kept you hooked longer than necessary.

[browneyedgirl36]

"" Medical and paramedics as well as nurses, police and fire fighters all have a wall that they put up to protect the Id. ""

 

No and no. I jump in when it goes this direction. My ex a firefighter, my son is one and I work with doctors.

This is not is "out"

 

This is HIS personality and dating dynamic, work vocation aside.

As a tenured 50 something physician I am pretty certain is he has the luxury of more time off then most of.

I keep saying this because making excuses for him may have kept you hooked longer than necessary.

 

I agree. Honestly, I think this is a case of Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is the correct one. The guy is lazy, non-committal, and just not that into the relationship -- he's too busy being casual.

 

Nothing to do with his job -- or even his age. It's just who he is (though his age suggests even more so that the situation won't change).

[ThatwasThen]

"" Medical and paramedics as well as nurses, police and fire fighters all have a wall that they put up to protect the Id. ""

 

No and no. I jump in when it goes this direction. My ex a firefighter, my son is one and I work with doctors.

This is not is "out"

 

This is HIS personality and dating dynamic, work vocation aside.

As a tenured 50 something physician I am pretty certain is he has the luxury of more time off then most of.

I keep saying this because making excuses for him may have kept you hooked longer than necessary.

Of course its his personality... it's how he's learned to keep the distance.

 

Surely I'm not saying ALL of the people in the careers I've mentioned are like him but I've seen it happen and I've witnessed what I've stated.

 

BTW: It was my mother's nurse that day that had to get the donuts the next morning so that is called putting up an emotional wall to the trauma that they were trying to prevent in that intensive care unit. Our op's buddy has that ability to distance himself while in the momentt down to a science as attested by his non-involvement emotionally in his past and presently.

 

Adding: Sometime the simplest answer is the answer... to those of us not involved because we can see the forest for the trees. Again sometimes having explanations helps us to see that forest more quickly.

[lilypadgirl]

I don't have anything more to add than what have already been said.

 

But I do have a question: why do you love him? What about him is it that you love?

 

Because from most of the conversation here, I can't see what he has done to earn your love. You mention that you have great conversations but why do you not feel safe enough to bring up more emotional topics like how you feel about each other?

 

I'm not asking to be a jerk but I am genuinely curious.

 

Maybe thinking about what he has done to earn your love will help you realize that he is not as scary and unapproachable as you have built him up to be in your mind. Or maybe thinking about how he hasn't done much will help you realize that there isn't much there to love and help you able to move on faster.

 

I understand that you may not be ready to rock the status-quo boat and take action. And that's OK. You need to move on your own time and at your pace. But I that you also think about how much you've given him and how much he's given you and ask yourself is he truly worth it? It seems to me that you've put him on such a high pedestal, why?

 

On a slightly separate note, I have a tendency towards low self-esteem and I always thought that I can earn other's love by giving, giving, and giving. One of my friends gave me the best advice I have ever received: giving is loving. The more you give, the more invested you become and that turns into love. If you don't allow someone to give to you, you also don't allow that person the chance to invest in you and love you.

 

I know you like being the giver in the relationship and afraid to inconvenience him by asking for things - even something as simple as for him to leave you parking room. But all you are doing is teaching him he doesn't need to invest in you. Without investment, there's no value. That's why in the healthiest relationship both people give and take. Give to love and take to allow to be loved.

[Helpexpressme]

Oh Naomi, Please do something about this, this week! ARRRRRGGGGH!

[Naomi99]

 

But I do have a question: why do you love him? What about him is it that you love?

 

Because from most of the conversation here, I can't see what he has done to earn your love. You mention that you have great conversations but why do you not feel safe enough to bring up more emotional topics like how you feel about each other?

 

I'm not asking to be a jerk but I am genuinely curious.

 

I love him because of the choices he's made in life; his dedication to his work; how he plays piano and is so passionate about it he won't give up on a piece until he knows it by heart. I love him because he always gives his best, and even when he is disappointed he's strong and positive. I've never caught him lying, and there is a peacefulness in his eyes that makes me melt. He's smart. He is not funny, but he is the funniest when he doesn't know it. He is a horrible driver almost always hits something because he's busy waving to me out the window or looking at me while talking, and I find that endearing. He is finicky but I understand all of his fickleness because they're the same issues I have fault with too, I just don't carry them out to the extreme he does.

 

He is older and slower and I respect him. He's definitely not as quick-witted mentally or even physically adroit as I am, and that makes me feel sexy in our interactions.

 

And his kiss, the smell of his breath, the smell of his chest. He's much older and probably the sexiest man I have ever been with.

 

 

Maybe thinking about what he has done to earn your love will help you realize that he is not as scary and unapproachable as you have built him up to be in your mind. Or maybe thinking about how he hasn't done much will help you realize that there isn't much there to love and help you able to move on faster.

 

I understand that you may not be ready to rock the status-quo boat and take action. And that's OK. You need to move on your own time and at your pace. But I that you also think about how much you've given him and how much he's given you and ask yourself is he truly worth it? It seems to me that you've put him on such a high pedestal, why?

 

On a slightly separate note, I have a tendency towards low self-esteem and I always thought that I can earn other's love by giving, giving, and giving. One of my friends gave me the best advice I have ever received: giving is loving. The more you give, the more invested you become and that turns into love. If you don't allow someone to give to you, you also don't allow that person the chance to invest in you and love you.

 

I know you like being the giver in the relationship and afraid to inconvenience him by asking for things - even something as simple as for him to leave you parking room. But all you are doing is teaching him he doesn't need to invest in you. Without investment, there's no value. That's why in the healthiest relationship both people give and take. Give to love and take to allow to be loved.

 

 

This post really resonates with me. I'd rather be the one inconvenienced than inconvenience someone….(depending who the person is.) My best friend seems to think I have low self-esteem and I got very offended. She says I'm afraid to show my true self to him because I'm afraid he won't like me (being more assertive and speaking what I want.)

 

I told her it is only with him I am like that, not with anyone else. Does that still qualify as low-self esteem when it's only manifested with one person?

[Naomi99]

Of course its his personality... it's how he's learned to keep the distance.

Our op's buddy has that ability to distance himself while in the momentt down to a science as attested by his non-involvement emotionally in his past and presently.

 

THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!! You nailed it!!!

 

Adding: Sometime the simplest answer is the answer... to those of us not involved because we can see the forest for the trees. Again sometimes having explanations helps us to see that forest more quickly.

 

I am sooo much more aware with all of your input, and I even understand him better. I was angry a few days ago, but now I feel a bit more compassion because I understand how/why he behaves this way. And it doesn't necessarily mean he's a player or he doesn't care about me. It's just who he is and what works for him. If I want something different and it doesn't work for me, I don't have to stay.

[Naomi99]

Oh Naomi, Please do something about this, this week! ARRRRRGGGGH!

 

Oh, I wish I could! I am slammed with work and helping friends this weekend. There are no solid plans to see each other again, but we've been texting small one-liners over the weekend and I'll probably see him soon.

With the abundance of advice here ranging from cold turkey to initiating more often to having a "talk," I'm still contemplating which would be most effective.

[Hermes]

Naomi. He is 50, and is an inveterate bachelor as someone remarked in an earlier post. If you are looking for commitment, as in long-term or even marriage, this is not the man.

He likes, loves, his life the way it is. Who wouldn't! He has it all, including you.

 

Two little items immediately called my attention: The "finicky" bit, and the "light sleeper" bit. The latter, well maybe he is a light sleeper maybe he isn't. What it is really about is keeping that intimacy at bay where you share a bed for a night or nights with a person, wake up beside them, .....

 

Perhaps for your own satisfaction you might like to talk things over with him.

[Naomi99]

Two little items immediately called my attention: The "finicky" bit, and the "light sleeper" bit. The latter, well maybe he is a light sleeper maybe he isn't. What it is really about is keeping that intimacy at bay where you share a bed for a night or nights with a person, wake up beside them, .....

 

The first time I spent the night, he did not sleep a wink. I could feel him lying still awake, and when I peeped at him, his eyes were wide open. I felt horrible.

 

But it bugs me that he doesn't ever wish to have that intimacy of ravaging each other in the middle of the night, morning sex, making breakfast, showering together…all of the perks that come with spending the night. He'd rather have his full night's sleep than experience all of that with me.

 

It probably is a mechanism to keep me from falling too in love with him.

[Ms Darcy]

Given that it's father's day, I am probably more sensitive to this, but (minus the sexy part) is how I have seen people talk about their fathers - older, slower, dedicated, honest, finicky, peaceful. I can't help but feel like he's some sort of daddy to you - especially if you are still dealing with childhood issues.

[Hermes]

Naomi, I think you are gaining insight into the situation.

 

I once knew someone like that, the finickiness, the light sleeping (which only happens if someone is in the bed given that he gets a good night's sleep otherwise). People are, and look vulnerable while asleep, and so he fears that too. He has the shields up, that's for sure, and at his age they are not going to come down.

[Naomi99]

Given that it's father's day, I am probably more sensitive to this, but (minus the sexy part) is how I have seen people talk about their fathers - older, slower, dedicated, honest, finicky, peaceful. I can't help but feel like he's some sort of daddy to you - especially if you are still dealing with childhood issues.

 

 

My ex, who knows the whole story, says the exact same thing as you!!! He thinks I have daddy issues. I'm not sure about that. (My ex hates this guy.)

[Hermes]

Naomi. There are lots of people in age-gap relationships. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the angle. But here we are talking about a certain personality. IMO he is a commitment-phobe, for reasons that probably have nothing to do with you, or any other woman for that matter.

[Naomi99]

Do you think he's using me, or he might actually love me? Or a little bit of both? Or is he playing me?