8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[abitbroken]

Well there you go - he's a doctor. I have a doctor in my family. Their schedule is very hard particular in their 20s - which is prime time to meet a future spouse. Unless they already have a girlfriend or wife who is content being ships passing in the night or is on that schedule to or gets it - maintaining a relationship is hard. Until they get some seniority or call some shots - relationships don't last because of the schedule (maybe they have to be on call Christmas day or the day of the girlfriend's family reunion so can't travel), or because many women are attracted to them BECAUSE they are a doctor and see dollar signs and therefore the relationshop doesn't last long term. It pokes along for awhile until the women is revealed for who she is.

 

So it makes total sense to me why its possible for him to have not have been married. Some don't want to marry doctors unless they are an elective plastic surgeon because they feel like a fire fighter's wife or military wife as far as the consistent schedule.

 

Some of these galas are for other doctors to get awards or are thrown by organizations that give doctors grants and a lot of them are truly "working" events where they are there to make connections with a certain contact, etc, its not all glamor. I can tell you that the spouse who goes to these are often left by themselves or catching up with other spouses. They are not all date type events like you would think. and not all spouses and dates go. Many of the spouses that go are also the nurse or the billing person in the doc's private practice.

 

If he is seeing you one day a week it could be entirely possible he is only seeing you on day where time is no factor, he is not on call, etc. My bf in the beginning only saw me on his total day off and when he didn't have to go in early the next day - then, by my initiation, we started doing quick lunches or hikes when we only had 45 minutes to 2 hours to spend together.

 

This "i am not doing it for him" is the wrong attitude. He is the only one doing antyhing here.

 

I think that you should just come out and tell him that you don't know what his status or feelings are, but you would like to just date only him. And see what he says. Or you INVITE him over for dinner or suggest GOING OUT to dinner during the week. Ask him what night is good.

 

I think you just want to dance around not speaking up and not at least MATCHING or MEETING halfway his efforts so i guess you are in stalemate.

 

If you are not compatible - fine, leave him alone - or don't ask for more - but the idea that you refuse to meet him halfway is kind of puzzling to me. If you met him halfway and he didn't do more, that's one thing - but you get out what you put in.

[reinventmyself]

This would be a typical speech I might say if I were in your situation:

 

"I really enjoy our time together and I am very fond of you, however I am sort of hardwired in the sense that I become attached and develop expectations from someone I am being intimate with. Casual sex is just not in my nature. I wish it was otherwise. . My ultimate goal is to have a monogamous relationship with the someone but based on some things about our friendship I am questioning if this is even in the cards for us. I respect where ever you are in your life and wouldn't want anything from you that you are willing to offer but I think the time has come for us to talk about expectations, if there are any and if we aren't on the same page I think it's best I move on"

 

I said this to a guy once. (I wasn't intimate with him but he tried every time we were together) His answer was that he wasn't 'relationship material' though his dating profile stated otherwise. I was glad I asked. . I moved on because I didn't see the point in continuing and years later he is true to his word and still on line. It ended on a good note. .he's a very nice man but we weren't looking for the same thing.

 

My other experiences are that - if I have to ask then I already have my answer, because if a man is crazy about me there isn't any question. It's obvious!!

[pinkelephant]

If it's been eight months, then yeah, time to say something. He may just assume that this is a relationship and is genuinely clueless. It's surprising what clear communication will achieve. Don't be overly emotional when you bring it up. Tell him what you need and ask him what he can and cannot meet. He cares about you, he'll be willing to figure out a middle ground and you can figure out if that will work for you.

 

I accidentally entered a relationship thinking it was a fwb situation lol. turns out he thinks i'm his gf and that's just how he operated in the past and didn't think much of it.

[Naomi99]

This is a highly insightful post. Now I understand about the galas and charity events, but that doesn't account for his sport-watching nights at his house and happy hours which include both male and female. Is he purposefully excluding me?

 

Also...I believe there are two things going on here, your post touches slightly on that.

 

No. 1, he might be emotionally stunted due to all the long hours at work and years of schooling, never really had a chance to develop socially/emotionally when it comes to women. That accounts for the multiple short-term relationships.

 

No. 2, my own naiveté with dating. I really don't have too too much experience except for the blogs/forums I read (Evan Marc Katz's don't invest more in him than he does you).

 

Put those two together and you do indeed have stalemate.

[Naomi99]

Also I have some questions.

 

Does he ever take you out, ANYWHERE?Have you met his family and friends, has he met yours?

 

Or does he just come over to watch T.V and have some loving time.

 

If that's all he does, that's not even a casual tryst. It's pathetic. (No offence to you).

 

Never met each others' friends or families. Honestly, I cannot even imagine that scenario.

Yes, he has taken me out, but the majority we cook and stay at home.

[reinventmyself]

"'So it makes total sense to me why its possible for him to have not have been married. Some don't want to marry doctors unless they are an elective plastic surgeon because they feel like a fire fighter's wife or military wife as far as the consistent schedule.""

 

I was married to a firefighter and work with doctors. Neither makes them undateable. Some have egos that are slightly inflated but you can't make generalizations. I know some warm, fuzzy family men from both professions.

[abitbroken]

"'So it makes total sense to me why its possible for him to have not have been married. Some don't want to marry doctors unless they are an elective plastic surgeon because they feel like a fire fighter's wife or military wife as far as the consistent schedule.""

 

I was married to a firefighter and work with doctors. Neither makes them undateable. Some have egos are slightly inflated but you can't make generalizations. I know some warm fuzzy family men from both professions.

 

In the early years - residency, lots of doctors are hard to date. I am not talking in his 50s, but early on - I know from my relative, that you are so dead dog tired and barely have time for yourself, let alone trying to meet anyone that is not on your shift during the early child bearing/having years.

[abitbroken]

This is a highly insightful post. Now I understand about the galas and charity events, but that doesn't account for his sport-watching nights at his house and happy hours which include both male and female. Is he purposefully excluding me?

 

Also...I believe there are two things going on here, your post touches slightly on that.

 

No. 1, he might be emotionally stunted due to all the long hours at work and years of schooling, never really had a chance to develop socially/emotionally when it comes to women. That accounts for the multiple short-term relationships.

 

No. 2, my own naiveté with dating. I really don't have too too much experience except for the blogs/forums I read (Evan Marc Katz's don't invest more in him than he does you).

 

Put those two together and you do indeed have stalemate.

 

You aren't putting in more than he is. You aren't matching it. Emotionally, you may be more invested, though.

 

Number 1, working long hours doesn't emotionally stunt people. It just removes some opportunities to meet others. Just like some of my friends met a lot of guys in college, yet my cousin didn't have the same exposure to so many guys her own age based on her diffrent path. The long hours as a resident could turn some people off - or just not even being able to be awake long enough after double shifts, etc, to even think about meeting someone. I have a relative who is a doctor and one in my extended family and they have had slightly differing experiences. if the friend wouldn't have met his wife in med school, he wouldn't have dated as a resident - but dates were sleeping over and one leaving hours before hte other or coffee on a break at the hoosital. My direct relative didn't find someone meaningful until later on.

[abitbroken]

Never met each others' friends or families. Honestly, I cannot even imagine that scenario.

Yes, he has taken me out, but the majority we cook and stay at home.

 

Then if you can't imagine that scenario - drop him. You should be with someone who you can't wait to introduce to your best friend or sister. I think also since he does meet a lot of different people and network with them - you are not giving him enough credit (will he embarrass you if he meets your friends or so you think??) His family is out of state so that's different slightly. Are you embarrassed or uncomortable to tell them or for them to see you are dating a much older man?? If you can't picture your significant other (even though he isn't beause you are dating multiple men - Oh, i forgot about that - why are you so upset he isn't investing more if you are seeing other guys???? Why should be have you on his arm at galas if he knows he is only one of your possibles you might stick with 'hi everybody, this is the woman who juggles me...")

 

When i met my bf, there was no question that i would not entertain dates from other men. i was done looking. So if you still feel the need to date multiple men including him and have not dropped those other guys on your own - I don't think this relationship is worth pursuing. If you were serious about him, you wouldn't need to talk to him in order to decide dating others - you would stop dating others yourself and focus on dating him,

[Naomi99]

Not that he will embarrass me, but although intelligent, he can be slow to catch on to jokes/puns and isn't quick-witted. When we are together, I find myself taking care of him, nurturing him, and showing him short-cuts on how to do things. He's very kind but distinguished and proper. (won't eat pizza with his hands.)

 

I only have extended family here (aunts/uncles/cousins) and they are the burping/farting type, all very young…. and there is NO way possible I would ever have them in the same room!!!

[Naomi99]

You aren't putting in more than he is. You aren't matching it. Emotionally, you may be more invested, though..

 

TRUE. I am way more emotionally invested than he.

 

Number 1, working long hours doesn't emotionally stunt people. It just removes some opportunities to meet others..

 

That's what I mean. If his relationships have never gotten beyond the one-year mark because he's been working so hard, at 55, would he have the emotional experience or bandwidth to carry a relationship to a full-blown long-term status?

[abitbroken]

TRUE. I am way more emotionally invested than he.

 

 

 

That's what I mean. If his relationships have never gotten beyond the one-year mark because he's been working so hard, at 55, would he have the emotional experience or bandwidth to carry a relationship to a full-blown long-term status?

 

I am not saying all his relationships ended because of work - I am just saying there are many reasons that don't involve someone being broken.

 

Stop making excuses for not making a move or speaking up.

[boltnrun]

All I see are 14 pages of fear.

 

Fear of asking him where you two stand. Fear he'll stop seeing you if you ask. Fear of losing him. Fear of how you'll feel if you lose him. Fear you don't mean nearly as much to him as he does to you.

 

Fear is a terrible place to live. And you're deliberately choosing to live there.

 

So...do you continue living in fear? Or do you get out there and DO something???

 

PS: Have you ever been afraid or even nervous about doing something? And you did it anyway? I'm presuming you have. Well, obviously you survived.

[Naomi99]

All I see are 14 pages of fear.

 

Fear of asking him where you two stand. Fear he'll stop seeing you if you ask. Fear of losing him. Fear of how you'll feel if you lose him. Fear you don't mean nearly as much to him as he does to you.

 

Fear is a terrible place to live. And you're deliberately choosing to live there.

 

So...do you continue living in fear? Or do you get out there and DO something???

 

PS: Have you ever been afraid or even nervous about doing something? And you did it anyway? I'm presuming you have. Well, obviously you survived.

 

I am fearless when it comes to anything other than relationships. I'll be the first to jump off a cliff into the lake. I'll be the first to approach a group of men at a club. I'll be the first to volunteer to take a difficult case at my work.

 

With him, I'm terrified. I have zero confidence because I see nothing in my favor that will result in a positive outcome.

[boltnrun]

With him, I'm terrified. I have zero confidence because I see nothing in my favor that will result in a positive outcome.

 

So...explain again why you're with him??

 

Do you honestly believe the words "love" and "fear" even belong in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence?

[journeynow]

With him, I'm terrified. I have zero confidence because I see nothing in my favor that will result in a positive outcome.

 

Naomi99, do you think, perhaps, you have not fully healed from your breakup? You are so fearful, terrified in fact, that you are frozen, can't move.

[SophieGrace]

I really don't understand why you don't just ask him, "So where do you see this going?" As I said in an earlier post, you are just getting information. You don't have to walk away if you don't want to if he says he wants to just keep it casual. Whatever he says, you will have information that can assist you in making your decision.

[toolovehim]

I am fearless when it comes to anything other than relationships. I'll be the first to jump off a cliff into the lake. I'll be the first to approach a group of men at a club. I'll be the first to volunteer to take a difficult case at my work.

 

With him, I'm terrified. I have zero confidence because I see nothing in my favor that will result in a positive outcome.

Don't worry about what his answer would be, it is time for you to ask because it cause your pain. If you ask, at least he will have some respect to you. If he doesn't have more respect to you, care more about your feeling, then how many more 8-mon are you willing to waste on the wrong person? I know it is hard, but you love yourself and protect yourself, just ask, ask him, the fear will end.

[reinventmyself]

 

With him, I'm terrified. I have zero confidence because I see nothing in my favor that will result in a positive outcome.

 

Read what you wrote again. .and there you have your answer.

No need of a discussion if you see nothing in your favor and can't imagine any positive outcome.

 

And participating in a one side affair will erode your confidence even further.

[intheferns]

You're terrified he's not going to give you the answer you want, yet you're not content with the status quo. You cannot control his feelings, you can only control you. If you refuse to have the talk now then you need to step up and start initiating things. Ask him out, plan a day and night together, invite him to a party - SHOW him that you want him in your life more. Right now all you've told him by your actions and words is "I'm fine with how things are right now. I don't want anything more from you. I don't care much to call you or text you but I'll respond when you do. I don't want to introduce you to my friends, I don't want you at my parties. I only want you one on one for short periods." Really you seem apathetic, even though you're secretly seething with insecurity and desire.

 

Evan's advice about mirroring I think applies more to dating/ new relationships. 8 months in you've spent enough time together that you can initiate things too. So step up and start doing the things you want to do with him. If you step up and he still does not reciprocate or he turns you down then you have the Talk then, at that point you have nothing to lose because you need to be prepared to walk away from a dead end.

 

I had a situation with a guy I met, we started hanging out, I'd make dinner and we'd watch movies. He'd be inconsistent about planning anything so that was pretty much what we'd do. I really liked him but was trying to play it cool by mirroring and being indifferent if he had to cancel or I didn't hear from him for days. I wasted so much emotional energy trying to figure out this guy when I should have just asked him. But really - if a guy is putting you in the position to wonder where the relationship stands rather than making it clear he wants you all to himself, do you really want such a passive man who doesn't make you a priority?

[reinventmyself]

I had a situation with a guy I met, we started hanging out, I'd make dinner and we'd watch movies. He'd be inconsistent about planning anything so that was pretty much what we'd do. I really liked him but was trying to play it cool by mirroring and being indifferent if he had to cancel or I didn't hear from him for days. I wasted so much emotional energy trying to figure out this guy when I should have just asked him. But really - if a guy is putting you in the position to wonder where the relationship stands rather than making it clear he wants you all to himself, do you really want such a passive man who doesn't make you a priority?

 

I think many of us, men and women have experienced dating someone under these conditions.

What it taught me is that I am on the look out for someone who offers consistency and someone I can count on.

I will give someone one slip. .but if it appears to be a pattern, then I am out. Period.

I won't put myself in line with someone like this.

[Naomi99]

I've actually been in therapy and a lot of my hesitancy to speak has to do with lack of validation from my parents as a child. I had a great childhood, really, but when it came to reinforcing my personal beliefs, my parents never validated me or gave me security in what I valued, and I was always questioning my decisions. RIght now I need to learn to take chances, and realize that if choice Ive made is not the most effective one, that I can still learn and grow from it.

[boltnrun]

In your mind, what's the absolute worst thing that can happen?

 

He says thanks but no thanks to commitment/spending more time together/involving you more in his life and gives you the choice of continuing "as is"?

 

He says sure but doesn't follow through?

 

He says the two of you are done because you had the unmitigated gall to ask for more, and you are devastated, a broken person who will never, ever recover (!)?

 

When I'm nervous about something, I imagine in my mind the thing going down in the worst possible way. Then I realize "that's not so bad, I can get through this". Nine times out of 10 it's not nearly as bad as I'd imagined. And if it is? I survive to fight another day.

 

So your choices are to ask for what you want or to crawl under a rock hoping he somehow, in some way, "shows" you he wants a committed, long term relationship with you.

[IAmFCA]

I've actually been in therapy and a lot of my hesitancy to speak has to do with lack of validation from my parents as a child. I had a great childhood, really, but when it came to reinforcing my personal beliefs, my parents never validated me or gave me security in what I valued, and I was always questioning my decisions. RIght now I need to learn to take chances, and realize that if choice Ive made is not the most effective one, that I can still learn and grow from it.

 

I have a similar element to my background, and for me it has been a lifelong process. Learning to be your own self advocate in any one area of your life will help you excel in other areas too. Other people have no qualms about putting their needs first, and they expect you to do the same for yourself. It is what are SUPPOSED to do, it is the baseline responsibility to ourselves. For me, the only way I can change is to forge ahead with a new behavior and see how it goes. This relationship is your next opportunity to practice.

 

There is no failure, there is only opportunities to practice. What most people call "failure" I call a stepping stone to success. So you can't make a mistake by trying, each time to you voice your needs it is a training run, an experiment. There is no downside.

[intheferns]

Exactly reinvent! And when I disengaged from that guy and made myself available I met a man who does show me I'm a priority by calling, scheduling dates, introducing me to the people important to him, making me part of his life. He initiated the exclusivity talk, he made things clear and never gave me any doubts about what he wanted. OP - look for a guy like this.