8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[Naomi99]

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

[Davidlang]

Hey Naomi99.

 

Well I would ask him about it. If she tries to shy away this would mean there is another reason as to why he wont commit. There could be loads of reason as to why. But you must know of the 6 month rule? After six months if it is not going anywhere it wont. How would you feel if he said to you "Listen I have been dating other women and I have another one I like more than you". I bet your heart would sink. Now think about the men you are dating. What you are doing is the same. Ask him what wrong and stop leading other guys on. Dont be angry about what I have written. I dont think you are a bad person but I think what you are doing is wrong but only in my eyes.

[lostandhurt]

Reading through this thread I think all of us can find parts of it that has fit our own lives one time or another. Sigh...

 

You say you love him and find his traits endearing but you have only gotten those "traits" in small doses right? Have you ever spent a long weekend with him? Gone on a short trip together? I think you are in love with the thought of loving him or the image of him you have constructed in your mind, not the reality of who this man really is.

 

You met a man and hit it off pretty well but now it hasn't gone anywhere and you obviously want it to go somewhere.

 

After 8 months if I were him and I was really into you we would be spending nights together, going to parties together, hanging out with friends and spending free time together. Come on now it has only been 8 months! You two should be hitting your stride in the honeymoon phase don't you think? Still exploring each other sexually and hardly leaving the bedroom!!!

 

Perhaps there is something to the thought that he is out of reach emotionally and even though you say you want more you like the safety of the way things are...

 

I don't think he is to keen on anyone as far as getting deeply involved. Look at his age and his past for goodness sake! You aren't the first woman to ride this ride with him and you won't be the last.

 

He likes things the way they are and if you don't then time to end it for your own sake so you can focus on meeting someone that wants the things you want.

 

I am sorry it isn't working out the way you had hoped

 

Lost

[journeynow]

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

 

Naomi99,

 

Since you don't want to ask him about the relationship nor initiate equal contact and are in so much turmoil about this, I think you need to break up with him and move on to find someone more available with his good traits who will also be available for the relationship you want and need. You are in so much stress over this, haven't been open to advice given, and don't need this much anxiety. The good qualities that you like are out there in other people.

 

" I refuse to include him unless he includes me first."

 

IMO, you two are not compatible. I'm sorry.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think if you're feeling this way, it's best to rip the band-aid off and just ask him what he wants from you -- maybe not those exact words, but something to get to the heart of whether he will ever want to be in an exclusive, committed relationship with you.

 

A few things I've learned, from my experience and those of my friends:

 

1) If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer;

 

2) If you fear the answer, then it's ESPECIALLY important that you ask -- mainly so you don't waste any more of your precious time with someone who isn't on the same page with you; and, if you fear asking because you think he'll run for the hills when you ask -- well, that's a good sign that you sense the relationship isn't very mutual/reciprocal;

 

3) If you have to wonder whether or not he's into you, he's probably not that into you -- at least not to the degree that you want and need him to be;

 

4) Once people get to a certain age, they are unlikely to change drastically, personality and character-wise, so if he is a life-long bachelor, it is likely he will stay that way;

 

 

5) All the wondering and iffy-ness and feeling insecure about is FAR worse than being alone.

 

I've been in your situation (with a much older guy, too -- in his 50's), and I thought ALL the same things -- wanted to know where we stood but was afraid to ask for fear he'd run for the hills, not wanting to initiate contact or ask him to do things because I needed him to do it first to "prove" he was into me, etc. The thing is, he wasn't that into me -- I sensed it, knew it all the time on some level -- but I kept waiting for him to make some big "move" to prove that he was into me. He never did. Yes, we spent time together sometimes, were physically intimate -- heck, he even told me he loved me a few times, but....ultimately, he wasn't in it for the long haul. I was SO afraid to ask where we stood for fear he'd run away; the thing is, I never really had him to begin with, so he was already technically "away."

 

I have a friend who has been in this situation with several guys -- developing feelings for them, going on dates, in a couple of cases sleeping with them and in ALL cases she was never sure what they wanted from her. In every case, I convinced her to ask them, but it took her forever to do it, and with the last guy, she flat out told me, "I'm afraid to ask because I'm afraid of the answer." I told her the same thing I've told you -- "Well, then, you KNOW the answer, right?" She did finally muster the courage to ask and found, to her dismay, that he only viewed her as a good friend (despite the fact that they'd had sex a number of times and talked frequently, texted all the time, he wasn't dating anyone else, etc.). She was crushed, but part of the reason she was crushed was that she let it go on for SO long -- years -- before she actually asked. Yes, it hurt like hell at the time, but when she did ask, it was like ripping off a band-aid -- very painful for a period of time, and then the pain gradually lessened and finally subsided. Now, they're friends, because they have a long history and have known each other for years and that meant more to her than being in a relationship with him.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the longer you keep this going, the worse it will be down the road. If you fear, after all these months, that asking where you stand will shut him down, well...then he probably isn't right for you.

 

One thing to ask yourself is about this "fragile" feeling you're having: Is it really about him, or is it about being "alone" and not having anyone? Is it about fear of not finding anyone else? I'm just wondering if it's not really so much about him, but about you and how you are feeling about YOU. Just a thought -- it's a question I ask myself every time I feel "rejected" by someone or feel distressed about a relationship -- whether it be a date, a friend, etc.

[annie24]

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

 

Hugs Naomi. When I first saw the title of your thread, I thought it was my friend "Carol" who is going through something similar. I recommend reading some of the articles on baggage reclaim (link removed) and looking up Evan Marc Katz and reading some of his articles.

 

It sounds like the bottom line is that he doesn't want to be your boyfriend, so I'd move on quickly and find a guy who does. My friend Carol is banging her head against a wall with a guy she's been seeing for about 8 months now. He has given her very little - mostly breadcrumbs. They see each other a few times a month, have fun together, but he's said that he's "not ready" for a relationship (despite being in his early 40s). While he has done some very "boyfriend" things for her (like driving her to the airport and inviting her over to easter dinner with his parents), he's never used the bf/gf word and has always dodged her questions when she asks about their status. That's not what a guy who is crazy about you does. I think he's keeping her around as amusement, but is not serious about her.

 

Even if you are not a football/hockey/whatever fan, a bf would have invited you to his place, and in fact, he would have had you help him host. I'd really block him and move on....

[toolovehim]

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

 

I think if you're feeling this way, it's best to rip the band-aid off and just ask him what he wants from you -- maybe not those exact words, but something to get to the heart of whether he will ever want to be in an exclusive, committed relationship with you.

 

A few things I've learned, from my experience and those of my friends:

 

1) If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer;

 

2) If you fear the answer, then it's ESPECIALLY important that you ask -- mainly so you don't waste any more of your precious time with someone who isn't on the same page with you; and, if you fear asking because you think he'll run for the hills when you ask -- well, that's a good sign that you sense the relationship isn't very mutual/reciprocal;

 

3) If you have to wonder whether or not he's into you, he's probably not that into you -- at least not to the degree that you want and need him to be;

 

4) Once people get to a certain age, they are unlikely to change drastically, personality and character-wise, so if he is a life-long bachelor, it is likely he will stay that way;

 

 

5) All the wondering and iffy-ness and feeling insecure about is FAR worse than being alone.

 

I've been in your situation (with a much older guy, too -- in his 50's), and I thought ALL the same things -- wanted to know where we stood but was afraid to ask for fear he'd run for the hills, not wanting to initiate contact or ask him to do things because I needed him to do it first to "prove" he was into me, etc. The thing is, he wasn't that into me -- I sensed it, knew it all the time on some level -- but I kept waiting for him to make some big "move" to prove that he was into me. He never did. Yes, we spent time together sometimes, were physically intimate -- heck, he even told me he loved me a few times, but....ultimately, he wasn't in it for the long haul. I was SO afraid to ask where we stood for fear he'd run away; the thing is, I never really had him to begin with, so he was already technically "away."

 

I have a friend who has been in this situation with several guys -- developing feelings for them, going on dates, in a couple of cases sleeping with them and in ALL cases she was never sure what they wanted from her. In every case, I convinced her to ask them, but it took her forever to do it, and with the last guy, she flat out told me, "I'm afraid to ask because I'm afraid of the answer." I told her the same thing I've told you -- "Well, then, you KNOW the answer, right?" She did finally muster the courage to ask and found, to her dismay, that he only viewed her as a good friend (despite the fact that they'd had sex a number of times and talked frequently, texted all the time, he wasn't dating anyone else, etc.). She was crushed, but part of the reason she was crushed was that she let it go on for SO long -- years -- before she actually asked. Yes, it hurt like hell at the time, but when she did ask, it was like ripping off a band-aid -- very painful for a period of time, and then the pain gradually lessened and finally subsided. Now, they're friends, because they have a long history and have known each other for years and that meant more to her than being in a relationship with him.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the longer you keep this going, the worse it will be down the road. If you fear, after all these months, that asking where you stand will shut him down, well...then he probably isn't right for you.

 

One thing to ask yourself is about this "fragile" feeling you're having: Is it really about him, or is it about being "alone" and not having anyone? Is it about fear of not finding anyone else? I'm just wondering if it's not really so much about him, but about you and how you are feeling about YOU. Just a thought -- it's a question I ask myself every time I feel "rejected" by someone or feel distressed about a relationship -- whether it be a date, a friend, etc.

browneye, you nail it.

To OP: Time to ask him because you want to know, otherwise you wouldn't come here to ask. I understood you, ask him, don't worry about what would you do after the answer. Just ask, stay or not, doesn't matter at this moment. Just go ask him, to hear what he said.

I found everyone here is very helpful, we need to be true with our self. You don't have too many 8-mon to waste.

[toolovehim]

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

That's ok. It takes time to find someone who is truly love you, it is same for everyone. There is someone waiting for you, only if you are strong enough to get on the right path and to meet him.

[missmarple]

Either ask him or end it...because if you're waiting for him to say something...you're going to be waiting for a loooooong time!

[Naomi99]

Hugs Naomi. When I first saw the title of your thread, I thought it was my friend "Carol" who is going through something similar. I recommend reading some of the articles on baggage reclaim (link removed) and looking up Evan Marc Katz and reading some of his articles.

 

I read those two blogs all the time. That's why I said I don't invest in him more than he does for me (straight from Evan Mark Katz), meaning I won't invite him to my dinner parties until I get invited to one of his. He'll come over here and see wine glasses and leftover food from one of my dinner parties and I'll tell him I had a few people over. He doesn't say a word because he knows he's had parties too without me as well!!

 

 

Even if you are not a football/hockey/whatever fan, a bf would have invited you to his place, and in fact, he would have had you help him host. I'd really block him and move on....

 

You mean block him immediately, as in never even having a talk with him first?

[boltnrun]

But aren't you afraid to have a "talk" with him? Or have you not yet decided to just let things stand as they are so you don't take the chance of losing him?

[Naomi99]

I'm thinking about disappearing into thin air without even having a talk.

 

After all, it's casual and no strings attached. All of the responsibilities that come with a relationship don't apply, and that includes a "talk."

[Naomi99]

But aren't you afraid to have a "talk" with him? Or have you not yet decided to just let things stand as they are so you don't take the chance of losing him?

 

I don't even know when I'll see him next!

[abitbroken]

You never answered my question: what does "being more committed" and "being at the next level" look like to you? How would he and you behave differently?

 

I just saw on FB he threw a small get together with his closest friends, men and women, to watch some game.

 

I wasn't invited and didn't even know.

 

That being said, I also went to two parties last week without him and he didn't know. I refuse to include him unless he includes me first.

 

I don't think he is too keen on me. I feel so fragile and want to cry.

 

Stop playing games.

 

Ok - so you don't invite him to parties, yet fault him for not inviting you either. He asks you out consistently, but you never ask him out. How on earth could he know you want more than a once a week date if you don't reciprocate at all. All this time, you have just sat back and reacted to his advances and what he does, but you have never initiated a thing. And now you are upset that he doesn't invite you to MORE. Even though you never invite him. You are going to have to do something different if you want something to change - you either have to finally take some initiative and invite him to an event with you a few times and see how it goes or at least start asking HIM out or you are going to have to SPEAK UP. relationships sometimes involve meeting someone half way - a novel concept.

 

So, you are going to have to stop being so stubborn. Your options are to tell him how you feel or to start initiating. There are no other choices beyond that. Sure, you can break up with him too. But stop pinning it on him that he is the only fault for this relationship not being what you want. You reap what you sow.

 

If i were him, I would definitely assume you were not interested in any more than you were currently giving. So it goes both ways. Yes, he is set in his ways, but you have to create a small ripple if you want anything to change.

 

I think your "fragile" feeling is not so much fearing rejection, but the fear and refusal to leave your comfort zone - and you fear that you are. Maybe breaking up is the easy way out so you don't have to put yourself out there. Maybe this relationship isn't the right one - or maybe it could be. And this relationship is something you initially really wanted because you didn't want someone smothering - and now you have someone who is not at the absolute extreme of that because you do see him weekly - but maybe you are starting to realize that you are sorry you got what you asked for.

 

There was something that I sincerely wanted to happen differently in our relationship and I built if so far up in my mind because my boyfriend wasn't doing that to the point I was crying when I finally told him about it. You know what his answer was. "Really? Okay, we can do that." He said it with a smile. I was astonished how simple it would have been if I had just stated it in the first place. I would have not have cried in bed at night, gotten an upset stomach just thinking about it and reading into the situation that it was doom and gloom, he was a commitment phobe, etc,

 

If you don't find your voice - you are going to feel so fragile and cry over every relationship unless you end up with a pushy man - and that will smother you and you will run from that. And if you are close to 40 - it really, really is over due.

[browneyedgirl36]

But, do you really want to play that "I'm not going to invest in him until he invests in me?" game forever? What if he never does? Are you going to keep going to separate parties and doing things separately while occasionally getting together when he decides to initiate? Honestly, that sounds draining and awful to me.

 

What I learned with my last ex (the one I wrote about in my previous post who was in his 50's and was essentially pulling the same stuff your guy is -- except my ex HAD been married once for several years AND had had a few other long term relationships) was that, if I had to worry about losing him if I said how I felt or asked for a commitment, then I never really *had* him in the first place. In fact, once he and I weren't together anymore, and it was clear we would never be, I said something very blunt to him (we work together, so I still see him sometimes), and he commented on how blunt I was being, and I said, "Well, I figure, what do I have to lose?" and we agreed that I didn't need to worry about him "running for the hills" because he already WAS "in the hills" -- always had been.

 

You don't have to answer my questions, but it would be helpful to answer them for yourself: What's the WORST thing that could happen if you ask this guy for a commitment and he says 'no'? What are you afraid will happen if you have to let him go? Do you fear being alone? Do you fear you'll never find anyone else? Do you fear that this is the best you can get and that if you let it go, you'll have nothing? Do you fear having to start all over again and look for someone new? Do you fear that his ambivalence is some kind of commentary on who you are as a person or on your desirability as a relationships partner (because I can guarantee you it isn't!)

 

Anyway....it would be helpful for you to ask yourself these questions and answer them for yourself, honestly. I did, and while I didn't like the answers, it made me face myself and realize how much I was contributing to my own sadness and anxiety over a relationship that was going nowhere.

[Creacion]

50s, never been married, no experience of a long term relationship, no children, never entered the "cycle of life" .. why would you sell yourself short? Change it up, it may be more interesting to date someone who has lived in the life cycle.

[abitbroken]

I don't even know when I'll see him next!

 

Then why not pick up the phone and tell him that you just read a review of this new restaurant that is his and your favorite ethnicity of cuisine and tell him that you really curious about it - you are thinking you could go together and then stroll through the cute little downtown area that its in after - what night works best for him? What are his other likes by the way - does he like to hike? watch foreign films?

 

My boyfriend and I used to talk at a certain interval of time and one day I picked up the phone at a time we don't normally communicate and he was happy to hear from me!

[abitbroken]

50s, never been married, no experience of a long term relationship, no children, never entered the "cycle of life" .. why would you sell yourself short? Change it up, it may be more interesting to date someone who has lived in the life cycle.

 

My boyfriend is mid 40s. Never married. Never been engaged. No long term relationships. And he suits me perfectly. By your advice, I should have not given him the chance and looked for a divorced dad with 3 kids? Some people have other pursuits and commitments in their lives early on where finding a partner is not a priority or their job or commitments is just not something that lends to meeting a ton of eligible women. (never married or divorced without too much baggage - ie, processed through and healed through the divorce vs ex heavily in the picture, wanting to have kids. being a proper age range for the person.)

 

lso this leeriness could be solved by TALKING. Maybe there are reasons why he hadn't had long term relationships (the special lady moved to another country, a career that made it difficult to maintain relationships, was shy and only went out with women who pursued him, etc, ) Maybe he didn't meet anyone who cared enough for. Or maybe he is immature. No one knows. But one can be creative with the imagination and create an interesting dealbreaking picture.

 

For my bf, the switch wasn't flipped on the "i really, really want to meet someone and find a future wife" til later on in life. and for some, that's how it is.

 

My one sis is in a situation where she works at a university. She makes friends with people and goes out with guys - but then they end up moving on - they finish their doctorate or masters and then move away and 6 months to a year and a half relationship is not long enough for them to consider changing their plans to stay. Then there is a percentage that are non-dateable (young freshman college students that are too young and married professers but many instructers move on too - she would date grad and doctorate students due to the age range or people who are interim lecturers). She lives in a town that is centered around that university and sure there are people that stay and settle in the area - but she doesn't meet uncles of the kids at soccer games - she meets grad students, and people who work at the school because its so big. She is considering moving because she is sick of the strong of short relationships that go nowhere - catching people that already have other plans in mind. So - many would say that she is missing out on that cycle of life... but i think its more natural for a guy to get set in his ways.

 

Any rate, i don't think he has a clue that she wants more than they have by her actions or words - and that is where they are going to stay until the apply cart gets knocked over.

[Helpexpressme]

To be honest, cut your losses now.

 

He will never commit to you, so let's just all face it. What a shame, because it sounds like you really do care for him.

 

But I think you are totally wasting your time, in a dead-beat nothing.

[Naomi99]

You never answered my question: what does "being more committed" and "being at the next level" look like to you? How would he and you behave differently?

 

Being more committed to me means:

 

1. We stop dating other people.

2. We have two regular nights that can we can count on that we see each other.

3. We plan a weekly meal together.

4. We communicate every day, even if it's just a simple text.

 

 

Stop playing games.

 

Ok - so you don't invite him to parties, yet fault him for not inviting you either. He asks you out consistently, but you never ask him out. How on earth could he know you want more than a once a week date if you don't reciprocate at all. All this time, you have just sat back and reacted to his advances and what he does, but you have never initiated a thing. And now you are upset that he doesn't invite you to MORE. Even though you never invite him. You are going to have to do something different if you want something to change - you either have to finally take some initiative and invite him to an event with you a few times and see how it goes or at least start asking HIM out or you are going to have to SPEAK UP. relationships sometimes involve meeting someone half way - a novel concept.

 

So, you are going to have to stop being so stubborn. Your options are to tell him how you feel or to start initiating. There are no other choices beyond that. Sure, you can break up with him too. But stop pinning it on him that he is the only fault for this relationship not being what you want. You reap what you sow.

 

If i were him, I would definitely assume you were not interested in any more than you were currently giving. So it goes both ways. Yes, he is set in his ways, but you have to create a small ripple if you want anything to change.

 

I think your "fragile" feeling is not so much fearing rejection, but the fear and refusal to leave your comfort zone - and you fear that you are. Maybe breaking up is the easy way out so you don't have to put yourself out there. Maybe this relationship isn't the right one - or maybe it could be. And this relationship is something you initially really wanted because you didn't want someone smothering - and now you have someone who is not at the absolute extreme of that because you do see him weekly - but maybe you are starting to realize that you are sorry you got what you asked for.

 

There was something that I sincerely wanted to happen differently in our relationship and I built if so far up in my mind because my boyfriend wasn't doing that to the point I was crying when I finally told him about it. You know what his answer was. "Really? Okay, we can do that." He said it with a smile. I was astonished how simple it would have been if I had just stated it in the first place. I would have not have cried in bed at night, gotten an upset stomach just thinking about it and reading into the situation that it was doom and gloom, he was a commitment phobe, etc,

 

If you don't find your voice - you are going to feel so fragile and cry over every relationship unless you end up with a pushy man - and that will smother you and you will run from that. And if you are close to 40 - it really, really is over due.

 

I really appreciated all of this and you are right!!! I DO need to start initiating but I feel so freaking vulnerable! First of all, he is very well-connected in the area we live in…every other week it's a charity event or grand opening or some fancy dinner. He cancels on a lot of those, but the ones he does attend, he attends solo or with a group of his friends. He has had 8 months to ask me to one of these events and has not. After my divorce, I lost so many of my friends and I don't really have family. I was devastated. I've had to start from ground zero and worked really hard to make this little life for myself…new friends and making new connections. I have so much more to lose than he does, and I am extremely hesitant of opening up my new life to someone who has shown me not one ounce his life outside of our trysts.

 

I highly doubt if I started inviting him to my precious little Pictionary nights, he will all of a sudden light bulb, "Oh, I'm taking her to that grand gala next Friday."

 

This man is a doctor. He isn't a dummy and has made daily life-threatening decisions on behalf of many patients. He is certainly capable of making a decision about me, and he hasn't. He's barely taking the lead and I refuse to do it for him.

 

All that said, I'm hopelessly in love with him. I'm in big trouble, aren't I?

[reinventmyself]

and I am extremely hesitant of opening up my new life to someone who has shown me not one ounce his life outside of our trysts.

But you already have. . we can see that, can't you?

All that said, I'm hopelessly in love with him. I'm in big trouble, aren't I?

 

Your last post was telling. You are vulnerable and lonely and settling for this arrangement. It works for him but it's not working for you.

Don't do this to yourself.

[journeynow]

I think Capricon3's husband had it right back in November:

 

I showed my husband this thread and his reply was: "They're incompatible. She'll never get what she wants from this guy. It won't work". I agree with him. OP, you've only been on 4 dates with him and already have issues. Is this not a red flag to you?? Perhaps it's best to find someone in your own age group with more in common.

 

[journeynow]

You can love someone and still not be compatible. Maybe that is what your discomfort is telling you?

[Naomi99]

WOW!!! I forgot all about that! That was right after we met!!! How time flies!

 

I just breezed through some of that. A lot has changed and we've learned a TON more about each other since then, but the main storyline plot is the same! He's been consistent since day one. Not enough contact/communication, and that makes me hesitant, so I mirror him and we get nowhere.

 

If he's been consistently like this since day one, he won't change.

[Helpexpressme]

Also I have some questions.

 

Does he ever take you out, ANYWHERE?Have you met his family and friends, has he met yours?

 

Or does he just come over to watch T.V and have some loving time.

 

If that's all he does, that's not even a casual tryst. It's pathetic. (No offence to you).