8 months and still casual…leave or stay?

[boltnrun]

And only if you WANT something better.

 

If you allow your fear to rule your life, you'll never get "better" because somewhere inside you, you don't want "better".

[abitbroken]

Despite the not calling in 10 days, he IS consistent. He calls you when he is at his best and ready for a date. I am not talking in consistent like calling every three days then a date, but his behavior is very consistent.

 

 

That would drive me nuts - just sitting there, analyzing what he might be thinking.

 

Why would he call you if he can't go on a date with you? You don't call him ever, so it is doubtful he would think you just wanted to chat and know that he is sick, or that you even cared. Committed couples bring eachother soup and even if the other has something really bad that they don't want the other to catch, they are okay with seeing eachother at their worst.

 

Yes -- again, if you feel afraid of these things, this isn't a healthy relationship for you.

 

 

I think you know there's a cycle you're caught up in here. I can tell you, from my experience (similar to boltnrun's, I think) that the choices you're making have more to do with you than with him.

 

Trust me -- I am now dating a GREAT guy. Stable, normal, nice, generous, kind, funny. Oh, and EXTREMELY consistent -- contacting me regularly, responding in a reasonable time frame, making future plans and following through, etc.

 

I bet you a nickel that you also reciprocated by calling him, too (hence saying "responding.")

 

Naomi, if you reciprocated from close to the beginning, this relationship either would have been over, OR you guys would have BOTH been on the same page (you are clear with eachother that you just want something that is consistent but not too committed and you know this because you communicate), or you would have told him you are starting to feel more for him and you want to know if he feels the same. And if the last thing happened, you would have gotten your answer once and for all that he didn't want to commit and you would have ended it, he didn't want to commit and you decided you are fine with dating multiple men with him in the mix, too, or you would have stated your feelings and he would have agreed. But even if he agreed, you might not be happy if committed means he just follows your version of "committed" - at least share x amount of meals a week. A guy can see a woman every day and not be committed, btw. A guy can see a woman once a week and be extremely committed (maybe he works out of state the rest of the week, but she is never far by phone) Your list of commitments aside from dating just you has nothing to do with committing emotionally to someone.

 

At any rate, until you decide that you are going to step out of your comfort zone and either break up, ask HIM out or even call him for once, or lay it all out and tell him what you want - and let the chips fall where they may and maybe end up breaking up anyway - nothing is going to change. You are just going to get more and more upset between dates.

[ThatwasThen]

Although I have to say last month, we went 10 days with no contact and he popped out of nowhere saying he'd been ill. I realize now I could have reached out, but my ego and pride kept me from doing so because I don't know where I stand with him.

Well, I think the only reason he hasn't bolted on you is because you're appearing to him to quite alright with him only being in this when he deems it. You are a very accommodating casual companion. A player and a committed bachelor's dream.

 

Adding:

 

Naomi, if you reciprocated from close to the beginning, this relationship either would have been over, OR you guys would have BOTH been on the same page

I think that may be a huge assumption. This guy has never been in a relationship for any length of time. But, because she never reciprocated, I guess we'll never know if your "prediction" would have come true.

[Naomi99]

If I asked for a committed relationship three months in, there is no way we knew each other well enough for that. Eight months down the line, I actually know his work schedule, family situation, where he keeps his silverware and what irritates him and makes him happy.

 

In regards to bringing him soup when he was under the weather: If I knew where we stood, I'd feel so much more secure initiating contact and doing girlfriend-type things for him.

 

Back in January, he was silent for six days, so I texted him, "How are you?" He didn't respond for an entire day and then responded, "I have the flu, sweetie." I wrote back, "Do you need anything?" He said, "if you're in my hood, soup."

 

So not only did I bring him soup, I brought a bag of groceries and baked a fruit galette for him! And you know what happened? I got sick the following month, and did he do anything for me? NO. A big fat NO, and he is a doctor!! He just kept texting me, "Drink more water. Are you feeling better? When can I see you? Are you coughing? What color is your phlegm? If it's clear, come over!" He didn't bring me medicine or fruit or anything! In fact, my ex was the one who did all of that for me. I told the doctor too, and what was his response? "That was nice of him. You have a nice setup and loyal friends."

 

That kind of behavior makes me very hesitant about investing anything beyond what he's doing for me.

[reinventmyself]

""If I asked for a committed relationship three months in, there is no way we knew each other well enough for that. ""

 

But you can ask for exclusivity if you are having sex with someone.

What's the difference?. .I'm not even sure. . But I typically ask for it before I have sex with a man.

I don't do it based on an assumption

[abitbroken]

""If I asked for a committed relationship three months in, there is no way we knew each other well enough for that. ""

 

But you can ask for exclusivity if you are having sex with someone.

What's the difference?. .I'm not even sure. . But I typically ask for it before I have sex with a man.

I don't do it based on an assumption

 

Yes. A million times.

 

Asking to be exclusive is not a huge commitment - it means - "You are interesting. I would like to get to know you better and the best way to do it is to just date you". After dating someone exclusively for awhile, you either date someone exclusively longer until you start calling eachother boyfriend/girlfriend, or maybe even eventually get married OR you date someone exclusively for awhile and decide that they are not your cup of tea, or your lives are in different directions and you end the relationship. You could date one on one for a month, for six months, for a year - who knows and end it. Or not. I think you put up with this so long because you are dating/were dating other men, so they all fulfilled different needs for you so you didn't have to have him fulfill many so you kept it going.

[reinventmyself]

if when the times comes for sex I will make sure we have that talk... It doesn't need to be heavy and nothing more than - we agree to only date each other until which time we can figure out if there is something viable here. -

If a man needs to date others simultaneously, then by all mean say so!

I am probably not the girl for you.

[boltnrun]

been there, why do you keep quoting my (old) post with every post you write? Just curious.

[Moontiger]

GOT usually ends with a dagger in someone's heart. How symbolic. In this case, it will be my heart.

 

 

Fair point here! We know the ending is going to be exciting and terrribly heart breaking.

[ThatwasThen]

I dunno; It needn't be "terribly heart breaking" at all but rather just a sense of disappointment and getting through the withdrawl of no longer having him in her life, I say. Afterall, he has not shown her any actions of love whatsoever. Sex is not an action of love if that's really all there has been shown. He has been doing it the right way in order to facilitate her NOT getting her heart involved. Lust, infatuation and the habit of him being handy to hang with (in a manner) will mean she will need to go through some detox for a bit but that doesn't mean "heart" break. More like withdrawing from an intoxicating drug she's been taking for a while.

 

All that of course, if he is true to his apparant nature and doesn't want to get any further invested then he already is

 

Naomi: Google "Limerence" and read the Wiki Link. I think you'll find it interesting. You'll get over the limerence quite speedily if you have the right attitude and are realistic about what it is you actually have with this man. Verfifying your intuition that he doesn't want more by having a grown-up discussion with this guy will allow you to accept what your gut is telling you.

[Naomi99]

I dunno; It needn't be "terribly heart breaking" at all but rather just a sense of disappointment and getting through the withdrawl of no longer having him in her life, I say. Afterall, he has not shown her any actions of love whatsoever. Sex is not an action of love if that's really all there has been shown. He has been doing it the right way in order to facilitate her NOT getting her heart involved. Lust, infatuation and the habit of him being handy to hang with (in a manner) will mean she will need to go through some detox for a bit but that doesn't mean "heart" break. More like withdrawing from an intoxicating drug she's been taking for a while.

 

All that of course, if he is true to his apparant nature and doesn't want to get any further invested then he already is.

 

YES! This is so spot on! I work so hard at my career and had to rebuild a life, have a handful of quality friends with very little drama, so the event of going to his house is like a sweet little getaway for me. It's something I really look forward to. When he asks me out, in my head I'm already thinking of a dinner menu, what I'm going to wear, etc etc, and it's almost become a little vacation to look forward to. Not having that in my life anymore would be sad indeed. I feel safe with him, he lives in a great neighborhood with a beautiful house and is always a gentleman.

 

HOwever he has NOT shown me any actions of love whatsoever!!! Though he's never been mean, he's managed to keep me at an arm's distance. I rarely spend the night and he doesn't suggest it, even though I am dead tired or the fact there might be drunk drivers at that hour. In fact, he'll say, "Turn up the radio. Call me when you get home. You;ll be fine."

 

He's never bought me gifts of any type except two onions and some garlic to make a stew. No flowers. Doesn't buy my favorite fruit or ice cream. One time I saw a bags of chips in his kitchen and he doesn't eat junk food. I said, "WTH? You don't eat that crap!" He said he had a few friends over the oterh night and he bought that for them to snack on. So I KNOW he is capable of thinking beyond his own selfish needs.

 

When he comes to my house, I always move my car over so he has a spot to park.

 

Well, He has a two-car driveway and he parks his car smack in the middle when I come over, so I wind up parking way up the hill. And when I bring food, sometimes I have to make several trips up and down the hill!!!

 

I don't know if he's intentionally that way or if he's clueless and not thinking about my needs.

 

I'm beginning to wonder why I stick around.

 

 

 

Naomi: Google "Limerence" and read the Wiki Link. I think you'll find it interesting. You'll get over the limerence quite speedily if you have the right attitude and are realistic about what it is you actually have with this man. Verfifying your intuition that he doesn't want more by having a grown-up discussion with this guy will allow you to accept what your gut is telling you.

 

WOW this is so interesting. It said something about obsessive thoughts over perceived emotional reciprocation…. I think in the beginning I may have had those tendencies, but I'm not perceiving anything right now. I am fully aware he's not in love with me at all and I know very well he does not reciprocate.

[ThatwasThen]

It's still on the dimmer setting but a lightbulb is being lit.

[browneyedgirl36]

See, that's the thing. You keep saying, "If I knew where we stood..." but you won't ask. I understand maybe not asking three months in (though I think you need to know if you're exclusive, especially if sex is involved), but it's been eight months now, right? That's definitely enough time for him to know whether or not he wants to pursue something with you.

 

With my ex, I constantly wondered where I stood -- and I asked a few times, only to get wishy-washy, non-committal responses (and I stuck around anyway, even though it was clear I shouldn't have). With the guy I'm currently dating, I don't even HAVE to ask -- I already know. He contacts regularly -- in fact, we've been in contact every day, even if it's just a few texts -- every day since we met. We have a standing date for every Wednesday night and every other weekend (now that I've recently met his kids, though, that will probably increase). The other night, I told him that if there was ever a reason he needed to re-schedule our Wednesday night date -- i.e. due to his ex wife insisting he take the kids even though it's not his night -- I would be OK with it and could be flexible he replied with, "It would have to be a major emergency for me to re-schedule my time with you."

The "exclusive" talk between us came up very naturally; we were talking about Facebook and how we're not friends on there and people think it's weird. We agreed that some people use Facebook to "keep track" of a significant other out of insecurity and to make a public "claim" on the other person so that others will know "he/she is MINE!" and that we think that's silly. We both commented that when we're not together, we're basically just working, chilling at home (him with his kids, me with my cats), exercising, or hanging out with a few friends -- that neither of us is out looking for others to date and we have no interest in doing so. It came up SO naturally that I remember thinking later, "Oh! We just had the "exclusivity" talk! I didn't even realize it!"

 

Some of the things you wrote in a later post -- about how he's never given you ANYTHING and how he doesn't even leave room for you in his driveway (which struck a chord with me because I have a two-car driveway also, and I have become very mindful of parking over to one side a lot more to make room for my guy's car) -- struck a chord with me. So, so much like my ex -- including the sending me home in the middle of the night (not always, but sometimes), with the whole "turn up the radio and blast the A/C -- you'll be fine!" thing and expecting to be taken care of when he was sick but doing NOTHING for me when I was except texting to find out if I was "OK" -- these just all seem like actions of a guy who, while he's happy to have you there when you're there, isn't interested in anything lasting with you (and perhaps not with anyone).

 

With your thread, too, I keep coming back to the whole fear thing, and I'll repeat to you the mantra I've repeated to a bunch of other posters on here: Any decision made out of fear, loneliness, or desperation isn't going to result in anything good. Your reasons for not asking for what you want -- as well as your reasons for continuing to stick around in this relationship that really isn't progressing at all -- are rooted in these things (in fear, at least, for sure). Not a good basis for important decision-making. Unless you want things to continue the way they are, you've got to overcome that fear an make clear what it is you want. If he can't or doesn't want to even try to give it, then you owe it to yourself to move on.

[ThatwasThen]

Not a good basis for important decision-making. Unless you want things to continue the way they are, you've got to overcome that fear an make clear what it is you want. If he can't or doesn't want to even try to give it, then you owe it to yourself to move on.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

I think, Naomi that you're are slowing hammering some nails into that building though.

 

It takes time to actually get out of the stage of denial and onto acceptance and I think your thread has helped you on that journey. I'll even venture to say that at this point if you did have a "where is this going" convo and he accepted something more involved, you'd soon enough resolve to thinking that this isn't really what I want as your relationship progressed. Just a guess though, of course.

[browneyedgirl36]

Rome wasn't built in a day. I think, Naomi that you're are slowing hammering some nails into that building though.

 

It takes time to actually get out of the stage of denial and onto acceptance and I think your thread has helped you on that journey.

 

I think so too. I have to say ENA had a pretty big role in helping me get to that point where I accepted things as they were; the realizations I came to as a result of my own threads and reading others' threads and the responses were SO helpful in getting me over that hump from denial to acceptance.

 

The other day, I was talking to a friend about my ex, and she said, "Yeah, all your friends knew he was a waste of your time, and we tried to tell you, but...." We agreed that, while I knew it on some level, I just wasn't ready to act on it....until one day, I was. Before then, though, I just had to go through all the bad stuff. We all come to things in our own time. Eventually, it sinks in that a particular situation isn't right for us, and we begin the journey of moving past it and on to better things.

[Naomi99]

The other day, I was talking to a friend about my ex, and she said, "Yeah, all your friends knew he was a waste of your time, and we tried to tell you, but...." .

 

When complete strangers over the internet are telling you the same things your friends are, then pretty much you're the one delusional. None of my friends like this guy either. Not one.

[Naomi99]

It takes time to actually get out of the stage of denial and onto acceptance and I think your thread has helped you on that journey. I'll even venture to say that at this point if you did have a "where is this going" convo and he accepted something more involved, you'd soon enough resolve to thinking that this isn't really what I want as your relationship progressed. Just a guess though, of course.

 

You ladies were encouraging me to reciprocate and ask him out as soon as tonight, and that was my plan. But I don't really feel like it. Why? he does not have my best interests as a priority. Letting me drive 20 mins home at 3 a.m., not saving me a parking spot, not caring about me when I was sick, letting enormous amounts of time pass before contact, not asking me to accompany him to any place of significance, excluding me from his parties.

 

And what does he get from me? Drama-free vagina on a stick who accommodates his every fancy.

 

I make his life better. He makes mine worse.

 

I don't think I'll be contacting him today. I'm too angry/sad right now.

[Naomi99]

See, that's the thing. You keep saying, "If I knew where we stood..." but you won't ask. I understand maybe not asking three months in (though I think you need to know if you're exclusive, especially if sex is involved), but it's been eight months now, right? That's definitely enough time for him to know whether or not he wants to pursue something with you.

 

We are sexually exclusive. It was discussed three months in, about. But never addressed again since then. So maybe he is sleeping around by now.

 

Some of the things you wrote in a later post -- about how he's never given you ANYTHING and how he doesn't even leave room for you in his driveway (which struck a chord with me because I have a two-car driveway also, and I have become very mindful of parking over to one side a lot more to make room for my guy's car) -- struck a chord with me. So, so much like my ex -- including the sending me home in the middle of the night (not always, but sometimes), with the whole "turn up the radio and blast the A/C -- you'll be fine!" thing and expecting to be taken care of when he was sick but doing NOTHING for me when I was except texting to find out if I was "OK" -- these just all seem like actions of a guy who, while he's happy to have you there when you're there, isn't interested in anything lasting with you (and perhaps not with anyone).

.

 

yeah, the safety thing really bugs me. I don't know if that comes from being a bachelor and men just don't think that way typically, or if he's just old and hasn't been conditioned to care about anyone but himself…. even so, it's a poor move. It makes him look less and less sexy.

[browneyedgirl36]

You ladies were encouraging me to reciprocate and ask him out as soon as tonight, and that was my plan. But I don't really feel like it. Why? he does not have my best interests as a priority. Letting me drive 20 mins home at 3 a.m., not saving me a parking spot, not caring about me when I was sick, letting enormous amounts of time pass before contact, not asking me to accompany him to any place of significance, excluding me from his parties.

 

And what does he get from me? Drama-free vagina on a stick who accommodates his every fancy.

 

I make his life better. He makes mine worse.

 

I don't think I'll be contacting him today. I'm too angry/sad right now.

 

I understand completely. I felt the same way -- for far, far too long.

 

For what it's worth, I was not encouraging you to ask him out. Frankly, I think you should cut him loose. I was only encouraging you to ask where you stood just so you would know for sure.

 

This angry and sad mode, though it feels terrible, is actually a good thing in disguise. It means that you are sick of the whole thing and ready to start looking out for yourself.

 

He's probably not a bad guy; he may very well be "doing the best he can where he's at," as one of my friend's wise moms used to say. The thing is, where he's at and where you're at are not on the same plane. Or even in the same realm, I think.

 

And yeah, if ALL your friends are encouraging you to steer clear of him AND strangers on the Internet are doing the same....that's a pretty good sign.

[ThatwasThen]

I didn't encourage you to initiate either. I just wanted you to consider asking him about his feelings so that you could wheel back your own or get the heck away from him and out of your life if you weren't on the same page.

 

As for his inconsideration regarding the driveway: Did you ever say to him that when you are come over could he please make room for you in the driveway? If you didn't then I have to encourage to hone your assertiveness and stop being so, so afraid to even ask for a simple courtesy to be returned.

[abitbroken]

So you guys are exclusive, yet you have been upset about not knowing where you stand? How could you have that conversation and then be so fearful of having more? Maybe this whole time he thinks you guys are exclusive - but just is set in his ways and doesn't see you much. From the thread I thought you never had ANY conversation about the level of commitment. Maybe the real story is that you guys do have an understanding of where you stand, but this guy just doesn't do it for you.

 

Okay - now you don't want to ask him out because you don't think he deserves it. That's fine. But in some ways I think you didn't because you want to avoid speaking up or acting with actions. You ARE going to speak up or act soon - you cannot just do the fade out on someone you have seen once or twice a week for the most part (except the time he was sick.) It involves telling him you don't think the situation is working for you and you enjoyed spending time with him, but you want to find a relationship that is going to go a little farther. I thought asking him out would help your feet get wet about actually taking action. (and also, i thought it wasn't fair to say that someone didn't see you enough - but yet you never even called them. they always called you.). You can't not do nothing, right? The action has ust been delayed.

 

I agree with all the little things he doesn't do for you - especially the parking space thing and the going home late thing. But you do say that when you see him, you plan all the meals, you bring the food, etc, and take care of him and even show him how to eat pizza with his hands. So he invites you over and its all on autopilot. If he wants good food and pleasant conversation but not the day to day, he can either hire a caterer to come to his house or he can hire an escort to go to a restaurant with.

[Helpexpressme]

You guys are not exclusive by any stretch. There is a big gaping hole in you, regarding him.

 

It's gone beyond "Are we exclusive", you know in yourself it's just not working. And even if he magically just turned around and "Yes, we are exclusive" the way he treats you is so unfulfilled and empty it wouldn't be the relationship you want anyways.

 

I think your too scared to ask him because you know what he's going to say. I think 9 months is time to call it quits.

[abitbroken]

You guys are not exclusive by any stretch. There is a big gaping hole in you, regarding him.

 

It's gone beyond "Are we exclusive", you know in yourself it's just not working. And even if he magically just turned around and "Yes, we are exclusive" the way he treats you is so unfulfilled and empty it wouldn't be the relationship you want anyways.

 

I think your too scared to ask him because you know what he's going to say. I think 9 months is time to call it quits.

 

 

I agree. But the theme all along has been that she needs to do something - to either speak up for herself and tell him what she is willing and not willing to accept or to break it off with him. Or both - tell him what she is not willing to accept and is therefore breaking it off.

[Naomi99]

So you guys are exclusive, yet you have been upset about not knowing where you stand? How could you have that conversation and then be so fearful of having more? .

 

We're exclusive in that we weren't sleeping with anyone else. Every time we were getting intimate, we would check in with each other and the answer would be no, I'm not sleeping with anyone but you.

 

Then the checking in just kinda stopped.

 

As for the actual level of commitment of the relationship, I'm not even a GF. He's never addressed me as such, nor I him as BF.

[boltnrun]

Let's see...you look forward to a "mini vacation" where there's no convenient parking, where you have to slog up and down a hill to bring HIM gifts, where you have to drive home at God-awful hours because you aren't allowed to stay over, and where the host does not give you one single, solitary thing (other than what's in his pants), and where you don't get taken out or introduced to anyone in his life (again, other than to what's in his pants). You get all excited, fixed up, buy gifts to bring him and you get...what? Sex? (which I presume must be blissfully mind-blowing for you to put up with all that inconvenience) The "honor" of being in his presence?

 

What am I missing here? Oh yeah, you "love" him.

 

Your definition of who's worthy of love is vastly different from mine, but that's OK because I'm not you.

 

I'm guessing you'll stay and won't ask him your status because you think if you "lose" him you'll be losing something valuable. It confuses me, but it must make sense to you.