Marriage, Men, Feminism, ????

[EQIQ]

I have been pondering on some thoughts lately that are causing me some concern with respects to marriage. I think divorce rates in North America are somewhere around 50-60%. Most if not all of those couples thought that they had found "the one", their "other half", etc. It is disheartening to say the least.

 

Then I look at it from a male perspective. If you have kids, and you get divorced, likely your wife will end up with custody, and you with weekends + child support payments. In case of divorce, it will also wreck havoc on both of your finances, and I worked in court long enough to know that some people when they enter a divorce/custody/child support battle, people turn into the most malicious and hateful human beings possible. And I always thought, how is it that they loved each other enough at one point to vow to spend life with each other.... One couple was fighting over a tool box, the wife was holding on to the husbands special $200 hammer or something ??????

 

Taking divorce out of the picture... the way marriages play out nowadays ain't always a happy tale either. So many threads about infidelity, different sex drives, family issues (in-laws, etc), and other issues... I also tend to find that feminism is taking a toll on how society in general views men and marriage. It seems that in general men are getting the short end of the stick in this arrangement.

 

I dunno. I am looking forward to marrying my girlfriend in the next year and half or so, but am growing increasingly concerned about it.

 

If I search online I tend to find a lot of "women-haters" lol, and some of their points make sense... but I don't think it is a balanced approach to the subject. Want a more even point of view.

 

What do you guys think of marriage and these concerns?

[Seraphim]

I think one has to remember there is no "perfect marriage". You are not always going to get along. You may not like your in-laws and they may hate you. These are the risks in dealing with people. I think feminism has expanded far far beyond is original inception which is sad. I think both men and women hating is sad too. If your gf is not a feminist you should not have much to worry about in that respect. Also too remember you don't have to live your life scared of a statistic.

[shadowplay]

I think there's a whole lot of stuff happening at once with marriage.

 

With regard to the infidelity, different sex drives and family/in laws issues, I think those problems have been around forever, but maybe in slightly different formats. For example, where my H is from honour killings still occur for women, but not for men. Obviously this impacts how infidelity is played out, compared to our societies where you don't normally face those kind of sanctions. Society reacts differently to it now, even if we don't approve of it.

 

With regard to feminism, one of the key issues definitely is that women are now financially independent, or at least a large proportion of them are. In the past/ in societies where women tend to stay at home and take care of the house and children, your opportunities for leaving are often quite limited. So there are/were probably a lot of women who stayed because they saw it as not having any other options.

 

I think expectations to a relationship have changed, to the point of being unrealistic. I think a huge mistake is that no one really talks seriously to young people about these things (this is at least my impression).

 

I think divorce is also more frequent simply because it's 'thinkable'. It's no longer 'shameful' as it was in the past, and the high divorce rates has normalised it in many ways. So, it's an option now that people consider faster and more frequently in the past.

 

So, in brief: I think marriage is a pretty challenging institution, but also potentially very rewarding. It definitely requires a lot of work. And it's a risk. You just need to assess whether it's a risk you want to take. Maybe pre marital counselling would be good for you and your girlfriend? I think it could be a really bonding experience for you to discuss these issues openly with each other before you got married, and to also talk about how you might deal with hypothetical future situations such as differences in sex drive, that one of you developed feelings for a third person, and so on. If I were to start all over again, I would do something like that.

[bulletproof]

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I also tend to find that feminism is taking a toll on how society in general views men and marriage. It seems that in general men are getting the short end of the stick in this arrangement.

 

How is it taking a toll?

[Moontiger]

I think this all has a very simple explonation. It's to easy to get married. ( I also read some where that the often quoted statistic of 50% is wrong. I'll try and find the link and post it).

 

Now, thanks to feminism, women don't have to put up with horrible marriages, nor do men have to be trap when a woman says "yes it's yours" when it's not.

 

I think we as a society are still in a period of adjustment. Women can now say and do as they like. Men, who are taught to act in a traditional male role find they don't know what to do when they discover their wife is not a perfect Susie Q home maker who will hand him a drink and rub his feet every night.

 

Some women take advantage of this transition period we are in and want to be treated as the equal of a man while still having the benefits that traditional roles offered for women.

 

It's important to remember that feminism is about equality not special treatment. And like all schools of thought can be horribly twisted and misused by some.

[EQIQ]

How is it taking a toll?

 

I rather not enter that argument to be honest, and regret even writing it. I just seems to me that society overtime is portraying men as fools and women as the more responsible sex (The Simpsons, Family Guy, about every single sitcom, etc). Dynamics surrounding marriage and divorce have moved from being completely male dominant/favored (a divorced wife was a very sad state to be in 50 years ago, not even to say 100 years ago). I don't think it should be male dominant/favored, but its become imbalanced.

 

It's just my personal point of view, but I don't think it holds much merit on my topic about the issues surrounding marriage and divorce on a case by case basis. On society as a whole, maybe yes, on my personal case, I think not so much.

[dunfalma]

Feminism = Believing in equal rights for women. How on earth do you see that taking a toll on society?

[EQIQ]

Feminism = Believing in equal rights for women. How on earth do you see that taking a toll on society?

 

This is why I regret making that statement... this topic is on it's way to getting into a male vs female battle..... not my intention.

[tattoobunnie]

70% of women who got divorced already had doubts about getting married before walking down the aisle. But did it anyway. So in reality, it's not about feminism...it's people getting married convinced that things will work out or change after they marry (WRONG!). As long as you have common life goals, believe in the commitment, and willing to do the work it takes to make a marriage work...you'll be fine. It's no picnic...but with the righ person, it's worth it.

[mhowe]

There is "thinking it isn't the right thing" and there is -- nervous about the whole thing. Two entirely different things.

 

My bf from college was freaking out the day of her marriage --- center of attention, so much pressure. She is still married, 4 kids --- most in college. We are talking 25 years.

 

There is a saying: Marry in haste -repent at leisure.

 

If you are doing it for the right reasons, there is no need to expect you will become a statistic.

[EQIQ]

There is "thinking it isn't the right thing" and there is -- nervous about the whole thing. Two entirely different things.

 

My bf from college was freaking out the day of her marriage --- center of attention, so much pressure. She is still married, 4 kids --- most in college. We are talking 25 years.

 

There is a saying: Marry in haste -repent at leisure.

 

If you are doing it for the right reasons, there is no need to expect you will become a statistic.

 

I think I am becoming nervous about the whole thing... I know it is the right thing. It's just scary to make a move in a direction that looks like it is a mine-field you know? Not as simple as it seemed to be at first glance...

 

At first I was kinda bummed out that my gf is of the mentality "Lets take our time, and see if this is really what we want.. take it slow, work on some of our issues, etc". But now I am starting to become rather glad that she is not the type of woman that is pressuring me to commit lol... She doesn't know this last bit yet, but its true. I am glad we decided to take it slow, and give each other lots of time. Moving forward, but with caution.

[mhowe]

It is one of the biggest decisions of your life! It's okay to be nervous. I would be throwing up! Seriously.

 

Not a mine field if you have established the foundation. Then, it is just putting additions on the floor plan!

[EgoJoe]

It is not Feminism that you think of it is the war on the white MALE and it is real.

 

Good news? Just get papered up, mind your Ps and Qs and don't settle for second best and you'll be alright.

[Seraphim]

It is not a mine field if you marry the person that is right for YOU. The mine fields are people who should have never married in the first place.

[quirky]

It's no picnic...but with the righ person, it's worth it.

 

How is it worth it? Sorry, I find the idea of marriage very scary too, I'd like to hear some positives.

[lukeb]

I wouldn't get too nostalgic about how marriage was traditionally, actually in a way even the single generational family is a fairly new concept started after WWII, with the advent of old age security. Before that families were multi-generational, because it was the families responsibility to look after everyone. Such a big responsibility that marry someone incompatible could mean destroying the family farm or business. To reduce the risk women were reduced to property and marriage was a transaction between the father of the bride and the groom-to-be. Sounds horrible maybe but having the family business survive was the difference between starving and living a reasonable life. Marrying for love comes with a real risk, but what is the alternative?

[journeynow]

I worked in court long enough to know that some people when they enter a divorce/custody/child support battle, people turn into the most malicious and hateful human beings possible. And I always thought, how is it that they loved each other enough at one point to vow to spend life with each other.... One couple was fighting over a tool box, the wife was holding on to the husbands special $200 hammer or something ??????

 

Taking divorce out of the picture... the way marriages play out nowadays ain't always a happy tale either. So many threads about infidelity, different sex drives, family issues (in-laws, etc), and other issues...

 

Want a more even point of view.

 

What do you guys think of marriage and these concerns?

 

It's good to be aware of what can go wrong, and reflect on yourself and what you'd do if you were in their shoes. Would you act the same? Probably not. You are not the same as the people you see in court, and you have time now to learn how you and your partner work out conflicts and in what ways you could improve before making a marriage commitment. Conflicts will arise in relationships of all types, and people WILL be faced with temptations in their lives. The thing you can do is explore your own beliefs and morals, and have discussions with your partner, and listen to each other. Make a commitment to make communication a priority in your relationship, and to tend to the relationship, and gather the tools that will help you handle challenges. Marriage is like a living thing, it can grow or wither, depending on what you put into it or take from it. You can't guarantee what your partner will do, nor can you predict what challenges you will face together. But gaining interpersonal skills, educating yourself in conflict management, being aware of human nature and personality styles will aid you in life, in any interaction, whether you marry or not. Marriage can be challenging, but so is life. Marriage can be rewarding and joyful, and a haven in the chaos of living. One wedding card we received years ago said "Make a good marriage", which made a bigger impression on me than all the flowery congratulations. You don't "get married" as much as you "make a marriage."

[Lester]

Don’t be afraid or listen to all that silly crap out there. If you find a compatible person that you love, marry her! Treat her as the most important person in the world for the rest of your life.

 

You will be happy and have no regrets. (Beware, they love a clean, nice house!)

 

Follow popular whims of the day and you have a life of doubts and regrets.

[agent1607307371]

Mod Note: This thread is NOT about feminism, but about marriage. Please remain on topic.

[EQIQ]

Yeah sorry for even bringing that into the picture... I should've known better.

[Day_Walker]

I think that if youre going to get married then you have to ensure that the person you pick is in it for the long haul. While I think that most people generally think that. I think that you have to ask yourself is this other person willing to work out any problem that may arise in this relationship. Of course I think that you have to ask these questions to yourself as well.

 

People have to realize that marriage as a social institution does not have the same idealistic meaning that it was believed to have. I think that you have to go into a marriage not with idealism but with reality. In my state the courts consider a long marriage to be 7 years because that are what the statistics point to.

 

If you are worried about what happens in the case of divorce then educate yourself and your spouse on how the law views income and assets once two people get married. I find that most often people have no idea that how the law views marriage and assets is completely different from how people think it works.

[Blue Spiral]

I personally think that marriage is a bad idea for men and women alike. Giving someone legal and financial power over you...to me, that just isn't wise. If someone really loves you, you should be voluntarily holding hands with them (and able to let go at any time), not legally handcuffing yourself together to make it harder to escape.

[OptomisticGirl]

70% of women who got divorced already had doubts about getting married before walking down the aisle. But did it anyway. So in reality, it's not about feminism...it's people getting married convinced that things will work out or change after they marry (WRONG!). As long as you have common life goals, believe in the commitment, and willing to do the work it takes to make a marriage work...you'll be fine. It's no picnic...but with the righ person, it's worth it.

 

This. 30 seconds before walking down the aisle as my best friend's MOH I asked her did she really want to do this (get married) as both families pressured them to do it because she was pregnant. They got married and were separated a year later.

 

I've never liked the divorce statistics because it never stres why the divorce happened. A woman leaving her husband because she was never sure in the first place is vastly different to me than a woman (or man) who leaves an abusive spouse.

[Ms Darcy]

I think this all has a very simple explonation. It's to easy to get married. ( I also read some where that the often quoted statistic of 50% is wrong. I'll try and find the link and post it).

 

This is true. I believe if you get married after the age of 25, have a college degree, have a job or are in school, have parents who are not divorced, and have been dating your partner for at least 2 years then your likelihood of divorce drops down to 10-15 percent. Basically, if you have a good head on your shoulders and direction in life, you should be fine when you get married.

 

How is it worth it? Sorry, I find the idea of marriage very scary too, I'd like to hear some positives.

 

So for my friends in happy marriages, there are a few similar themes:

 

1. Feeling of belonging

2. Feeling of family

3. Feeling of being part of a team

 

For good marriages, there's a real sense of support. It's partnership that morphs from dating to relationship to marriage to family. It is the growth and acceptance that comes with time and unconditional love.

[lukeb]

To me a successful marriage is allowing your partner to be themselves and not try to change them into something you think they should be.