He didn't pay for my coffee........

[Jake]

I think it's a rather broad statement to say that a guy who pays in order to conform can't make his own decisions. That sweeps in all men who hold doors for women by force of habit (i.e. to conform) or other sorts of habitual manners type situations. I think the best way to see if a guy has manners is to see how he treats waiters, customer service people, bus drivers, etc. Mother and sister too but strangers even more so. IMHO.

 

Yes I would I agree that I swept too broad of a generalization. I sometimes in my attempt to be clear on what I'm trying to get accross become too... blunt (sorry about that).

I also agree on seeing how a man treats a waiter, customer, ect. (I just didn't want to write a long list and went to the core basics). I've also heard how a man treats his pet(s) is also a good indication as to whether he has a kind heart.

[Generation]

I've also heard how a man treats his pet(s) is also a good indication as to whether he has a kind heart.

 

I would definitely agree with this. Afterall, most serial killers like Ted Bundy start by abusing animals.

[sadchick83]

Not quite.

 

I hate to break it to you but clothes and make up cost much more than you think....and who said I escaped car insurance gas and repairs? With my last bf, I freakin' did all the driving.

 

I don't know many women who would go out on a first date wearing a burlap bag and no make up, but that's just my opinion. And if a guy took me to a nice restaurant and we did take public transit, it would be fine by me.

[tiredofvampires]

I would definitely agree with this. Afterall, most serial killers like Ted Bundy start by abusing animals.

 

But there was Blondi. Hitler's favorite German Shepherd, whom he lavished. Hitler was fond of strays as well.

 

 

 

No substitute for many consecutive dates with a circumspect attitude.

[quantumst8]

 

 

No substitute for many consecutive dates with a circumspect attitude.

 

Si. Certainly certain circumspect individuals have circumscribed their circumcized personalities in a circuitous cover of chicanery.

[DylanNotorious]

He is paying instead for two reasons:

 

A.) He's using the rule to his advantage to impress. This is a, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" kind of man. He is no better then cheap person! Why? Because he's utterly selfish.

 

B.) He pays because the rules of dating said say so. He gives into the pure pressure of society. Not the kind of guy you want to be with that doesn't make his own deceive decisions.

 

Both kinds of men are no better then the man who didn't pay. If you really want to know if a man is kind and has manners watch how he treats his mom and sisters.

 

I disagree. It's just the simple act of kindness to pay for a coffee that she should look for, not whether he gets on with strangers. Not everyone gets on with strangers you know.

[Stockings]

He didn't pay for your coffee, you didn't pay for his... It's been a lengthy thread, OP, but consider the following; not offering to pay for another person's share may suggest a lack of generosity, but being late can indicate a lack of respect for another person's time. You're about even.

 

Just come prepared to pay your own share in the future, and don't read anything into it to start with. I appreciate generosity in a man since I too am generous (I enjoy treating) but whether this quality is present or not is something you will have to observe over time. How to put it? Because I offer to and happily cover the full check, I appreciate him making the same offer. It's good form. It has little to do with gender roles and more to do with common courtesy. Nevertheless, it's bad form to go into a date with the expectation that you will be wined and dined, so to speak. Entitlement, wouldn't you say?

 

In any case, get to know him before jumping to conclusions. (Maybe I'm a little late to this thread and you already have)

[Jake]

I disagree. It's just the simple act of kindness to pay for a coffee that she should look for, not whether he gets on with strangers. Not everyone gets on with strangers you know.

 

His mother and sisters are usually not considered strangers but I understand what you're getting at. Not everybody is a bubbly chatty person that wants to talk to every stranger. That I agree with you. However, I disagree with assuming that an act of kindness is just a simple act. Intentions and the "why" are what you want to know.

 

A gift and a bomb can both come in nice wrapping paper.

[SilverFactory]

I believe in equal rights for men and women but I do not believe that men and women are same. In Saudi Arabia a woman is scheduled to get 10 lashes because she drove a car. That is a classic example of inequality. If men are allowed to drive women should also be allowed to drive.. equal rights so to speak. Equal rights do not magically transform into men and women think/feel/want the same. The genders are very different. Men often take initiative and women respond. Even in this day and age men do the majority of asking out. Sure, women are increasingly asking men out but it is still somehow expected that men make the first move. This does not mean that men are strong and women are weak OR women are precious and men are not. It simply means that the genders are gracefully playing the courtship dance.

 

Sandra, you can ask for advice but at the end of the day you should go ahead with what you feel is the right thing to do. You wouldn't have come here and started a thread if the guy not paying for coffee bothered you much. Clearly it bothered you. What will you do if in the second date he says "lets split the bill"? Will you feel comfortable continuing to see him? You should ask yourself some questions and go from there.

 

PS: I do not mind at all buying coffee for my date... even if the girl happens to be the CEO of some company.

[Generation]

I hate to break it to you but clothes and make up cost much more than you think....and who said I escaped car insurance gas and repairs? With my last bf, I freakin' did all the driving.

I don't doubt that. That's why as an example I said $30 mineral foundation, because that would be the more expensive kind as opposed to cheap $10 crap, unless what you're trying to tell me is it costs more than that. I never said it wasn't expensive. Afterall, I did mention Coach bag (couple hundreds) and silver earrings (another couple hundreds especially with today's $/oz). Pretty expensive items. What I'm trying to say is - you don't need it.

 

I don't know many women who would go out on a first date wearing a burlap bag and no make up, but that's just my opinion. And if a guy took me to a nice restaurant and we did take public transit, it would be fine by me.

 

Would he have to pay for your bus fare? $3 ridership fare. There and back, that adds up to $6. You cool with that?

 

 

But there was Blondi. Hitler's favorite German Shepherd, whom he lavished. Hitler was fond of strays as well.

Touché!

[Ariel85]

When you make it as statement, that is a rule in your book, that is entitlement.

 

I do not mean to put words in your mouth but be very careful on your perspective of what simple manners are.

 

I'm actually really good with my comments, and it is not entitlement. It's called integrity.

 

You're 21. You'll realize all of this in about 10 years.

 

The rest of your post was just all really inaccurate and twisted. Do you really think a man pays for a date because he's selfish or a lap dog?

 

Egads. Out of the mouths of babes...

[Jake]

I'm actually really good with my comments, and it is not entitlement. It's called integrity.

 

You're 21. You'll realize all of this in about 10 years.

 

The rest of your post was just all really inaccurate and twisted. Do you really think a man pays for a date because he's selfish or a lap dog?

 

Egads. Out of the mouths of babes...

 

Ariel, I wasn't trying to challange your opinion as wrong or faulty. I clearly didn't stress it enough that I wasn't trying to upset you or put words in your mouth.

 

Your first sentence is defensive towards me. Your second sentence is belittling (along with the 3rd). The 4th is disregarding just about everything I said and is borderline insulting. Your question is meant to make me feel stupid and your last comment? Well, yeah I'm not going there.

 

I will duck out of this thread now and respectfully agree to disagree with you. Have a nice day (not being sarcastic).

[CMS]

The rest of your post was just all really inaccurate and twisted. Do you really think a man pays for a date because he's selfish or a lap dog?

 

Unfortunately most of the guys who run and grab the check when it comes are lap dog, they are banking on spending money on the girl would make the girl like them in return. I know because I was like them 2 - 3 years ago, and I wonder why they dont call me back after 100 bucks dinner I took them to. I make great money now as an attorney and am financially secure, but thats my money and I will spend it on people that proved to me to be deserving my company, time and money. You can buy your own coffee, if you complain I will just laugh at your face, and then tease you about how the electric company prob shut off your power and I prob have to do a food drive for you, if you dont like that then there is the door, help yourself.

 

To me personally, I like to believe my date is independent and able to pay her own coffee, if she feels that I have to pay, I will make sure that you passed all my tests first before I do so. I am not here to impress you with my ability to buy a cup of coffee, I am here to have a good conversation and some laughs while getting to know someone new, and making sure you fit my standards. Its about taking the girl off the pedestal and seeing myself as the prize, if you dont like that cocky attitude then again there is the door.

 

To people who thinks not paying for the lady means you are not a gentleman, I am going to quote Dave Chapelle, "Chivalry is dead, and women killed it"

[sadchick83]

I don't doubt that. That's why as an example I said $30 mineral foundation, because that would be the more expensive kind as opposed to cheap $10 crap, unless what you're trying to tell me is it costs more than that. I never said it wasn't expensive. Afterall, I did mention Coach bag (couple hundreds) and silver earrings (another couple hundreds especially with today's $/oz). Pretty expensive items. What I'm trying to say is - you don't need it.

 

 

 

Would he have to pay for your bus fare? $3 ridership fare. There and back, that adds up to $6. You cool with that?

 

 

 

Touché!

 

Ahhh yea...nice make up is about 3x the amount you mentioned-for foundation alone. And my bag is about 3x what you mentioned - at least!

Thanks for saying I don't need it, though.

 

I can't say I have ever been on a date in which the guy expected me to take public transit, but I would have no problem with it. It is better than drinking and driving.

 

Believe me Generation (and I guess you are about 23-27?), I have footed the bill many times and am happy to do so. Even though I got burned with the last guy, I would still be happy to treat a guy again. The problem is, I find anyway, is that the guy starts to get a chip on his shoulder if the woman makes more and wants to treat a guy to say a really nice steak dinner. All of a sudden "she is high maintenance." and "Why do you need to eat out?" Ahh- cause I work hard and don't feel like paying the bills and cooking. "Ewww you have such expensive taste." Did I ever ask the guy to pay when it was my idea to go to Ruth Chris? No, but somehow it is intimidating.

 

Its like I want to take a guy out for a really nice meal after getting bonus. I love a nice steak and on occasion want to share that type of meal with a man. I expect nothing in return, but somehow the guy gets intimidated and disgruntled-- even jealous of my career success-- which trust me, fluctuates wildly.

 

Men are still a little embarrassed when the woman whips out the credit card at the end of a meal. Sad but true. They simply are not comfortable with a woman paying, even if there are no strings attached. A guy will have this notion he has to "compete" with the next meal, when really, all he has to be is nice.

 

PS Ive even had broke guys make me give them cash outside the restaurant so it looks like they paid --HAHAHA

[Fudgie]

I would find it troubling if a man got so insecure about himself if he DIDN'T pay for the date just one time or a few times. That sort of screams insecurity about his "masculinity".

 

I just wanted to clarify that I don't have any trouble with a guy paying if the man and woman are fine with it. Likewise, same with the woman paying.

 

The issue that I have here is the entitlement. Even for just first dates, women are expecting the guy to pay for them, and will judge him negatively if he doesn't. There isn't even an OPPORTUNITY to have a discussion about it. Guys really get screwed over here.

 

I forget who said it before but women's rights have come a long way. Still have a bit of a way to go but we are definitely getting there. Women work in nearly all industries and can hold their own with men inside and outside of the workplace. I think this is a great thing. I want to work more towards becoming truly equal with men in terms of responsibilities. Part of that means paying your own way. I don't think it's fair to demand equal rights for women and then still expect that guys will always pay for your share, hold doors open for you, etc. It doesn't work like that.

 

Both genders need to treat each other well.

[Ariel85]

Geez. What has happened to our young men? I would never think of a guy who treated me as being a sucker. I would think of him as being raised properly and a total gentleman.

 

I guess I've been lucky. Never had a real date with someone who stiffed me with the check, or with my portion. Oh wait, there was once I went out to lunch with a guy from the gym, and he didn't offered to pay, but then said, "I'm never sure if I'm supposed to pay or not, as I don't want to offend someone. Can I take you to the NBA playoff game on THU?". Was a nice save.

 

So, let me ask you - now that you've adopted this attitude that a chick can buy her own coffee, etc., how's your dating life? Because you come off as super bitter, TBH. There's a point in believing in equity, but you sound pretty darn harsh.

[ApocalypseDreams]

This still going?! Over a cup of coffee?

 

This thread will outlast the cockroach and even Keith Richards.

[CMS]

actually my dating life as been amazing, TBH I have girls chasing me because I am different from the other nice guys that took them out but I am not here to brag or seek your validation, I know who I am,

[tiredofvampires]

Si. Certainly certain circumspect individuals have circumscribed their circumcized personalities in a circuitous cover of chicanery.

 

Sbut, certainly someone subjecting suitors to said scrutiny suggests something superior to sordid schemings.

 

Summing up my succinct scribblings, I was speaking of the sagaciously circumspect, not the surreptitiously substandard ssasholes.

[Stockings]

This still going?! Over a cup of coffee?

 

This thread will outlast the cockroach and even Keith Richards.

 

In other words, a coffee isn't as casual as we all like to pretend.

 

As to Keith Richards, he could star in any zombie flick sans makeup. He knew to avoid coffee and head straight for other substances.

[MyNinja]

Wow, this thread is very coloful to say the least!

 

Sandra, you say you are going out with him again?! Good for you! keep us posted on how things went.

 

I remember a situation very early last year where I was seeing this guy. We went into a doughnut shop buy some pastries, coffee and whatnot. After we picked out what we wanted and we headed towards the counter to checkout, my date eased his way behind me and took a few steps back and kind of looked around. I took hold of the hint very quickly and just paid the tab. It wasn't a big deal to me, but just the way he eased his way out of the possibility of paying threw me off a bit. He could have just said something. I wouldn't have cared and would have had a lot more respect for him.

[Generation]

I can't relate with those guys. I can sort of see what you mean though.

 

I'm not at all embarrassed when a woman whips out her credit card at the end of a meal. I find it very humbling. I could see how some men would probably wonder whether they did the right thing in letting her pay or if they should have gotten the bill. The way I see it, if she offered, there must be a good reason. It must have made her feel good too (and I mean that sincerely). It's the same with my girlfriend, especially after her pay day after a long week. She's more successful than me career wise. I'm not jealous or intimidated, and I never give it a thought that she's better when it comes to finances. I won't lie, I was a bit intimidated at first only because I felt I was lacking severely in terms of career and success, not necessarily as a man, but in general because I have felt this way with other guys as well.

 

I think what it comes down to is this. Depending on the relationship you have with a person, you may feel more inclined to pay if X. It's like my one friend who earns literally 10x the amount I make in a year. Still paid for him, just cause it felt good. No obligations. Yep, he's the most successful guy I know. I paid, as a way of showing my gratitude.

 

Gotta say, some of the guys you've dated are losers. Well, the one who upheld his own image by getting cash outside from you. Talk about saving face.

[Blue Spiral]

For me it was the opposite

 

For most women, that isn't the case:

 

A new report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) shows a 49 percent increase in emergency department visits for drug-related suicide attempts for women aged 50 and older.

 

link removed

 

If you're serious about a relationship, finding someone before you're 40 = probably a good idea.

[Alezia]

Both kinds of men are no better then the man who didn't pay. If you really want to know if a man is kind and has manners watch how he treats his mom and sisters.

 

Should I suggest that he bring his mother and sister on the first date now? The reason that people easily judge on if he pays, holds the door, is considerate to the wait staff etc... is because they are things that are easy to judge early on. It's not because it's the ultimate test of behaviour.

[Galaxo]

Well did you read what I wrote or are you confused? It has nothing to do with coffee, being a cheap man will not get you laid is all that I'm trying to say.

 

Sex is free. Even us 40 somethings can get it without ever going anywhere with a woman, much less having to pay for her coffee.

 

Have only read up to here. Seems to be a common theme I expect to see the rest of the thread. Him not paying for the coffee means he is cheap.

 

If you did not like the guy for being himself, would you like him because he paid for the coffee? NO. What does it matter then.

 

I am sure I get called cheap by some women I go out with as well. Why? I don't spend a lot of money when I go out. With or without them. I have fun. I can have more fun on a few bucks, than many people manage to have spending 100's. Any woman that would rather me wine and dine her now, than to make sure if she is still with me when we are old that I have us taken care of... I don't want to be with anyway. I am not a total miser and will splurge at times, those times are not when I am out with someone I do not even know I like yet.

 

No coffee is not splurging, I would had paid for it myself. Although if not paying for a cup of coffee is a big issue for someone the first time we meet, then what is being expected later.