He didn't pay for my coffee........

[FathomFear]

Yes it is the right option.

 

Any man who has any kind of respect of adoration for his woman wouldn't demean her and make her feel so worthless that she isn't even important enough to you to pay for a damn drink. It's pure selfishness IMO.

 

But maybe I just care about my girl more than others do about theirs idk.

 

The point is that she is not worth any more "adoration" than you. Women are not worth more than men. They are not any more special. They are not unique magical snowflakes that you need to fight over. Respecting someone is not treating them like delicate princesses. It's actually, you know, respecting them and regarding them as equals. That is what respect is.

[tommytoxen]

And they say romance isn't dead.. [sarcasm] *rolls eyes*

 

This is exactly why my g/f hates males her own age, they've been brought up this selfish, too. Heck 99.9% of them wouldn't stand up for her if there were no seats, or even so much as hold a door open.

 

It's disgusting.

 

Well, with me, when I take her out, it's on me, because she's my girl and I love treating her. Because she's special and important to me, but even so, I still hold doors open/stand up if there are no seats for females in general. A little respect goes a long way, and would it kill you to be a good guy for once in your life? And even if I'm out drinking with just female friends, I'll always offer to pay for their drinks, too. It's just the right thing to do.

 

I've often believed I'm the last guy on Earth to believe in Chivalry, this thread pretty much confirms it. Shame on you all, is all I can say.

[annie24]

I don't think that people need to stand up for an able-bodied woman. However, I'm very surprised when the bus is full and people don't let a pregnant woman, a blind man or an elderly person sit down. That just isn't right.

[FathomFear]

This isn't about selfishness. I mean, I love treating people too. I recently spent upwards of $500 at a nice restaurant for me and some friends. The key is that my decision on whether to pay for someone is not based on what sex organs they have in their pants. I do nice things for the people close to me, and they occasionally do the same in return as well. That is what respect is. Not treating an entire gender as if they are delicate snowflakes who can't fend or provide for themselves.

[Fudgie]

I agree. I don't think a guy doesn't "care" for me if he doesn't pay for me. I want to split it with him because I care about him and don't want him to blow all of his money on ME.

 

And yeah, it's not the "right option" for everyone. Definitely is not for me.

[Lamour detruit]

Calm down. Affection is measured in other ways than just paying for a girls stuff. A standard of a man does not just adhere to whether he does or does not pay for someones coffee. I personally do pay most of the time, but that is besides the point. Females hammer and hammer on about equality and about being able to do all the same things guys can do in this day and age, this includes not being surprised or appalled when she has to pay for her own things, even when asked out. I'll gladly take care of my girl when she would indeed be my girl, as that would make her special. Eventhough there still needs to be equality even if that is the case. However on a first date, she means nothing to you yet, and hence to put her on a pedestal and say she deserves nothing but to be treated like a queen is a mistake. There's a difference between being courteous and treating her like a princess, I agree with the first, not with the second.

 

And I'll be damned if I'd pay for a female friends drink. She can do it herself, that is just inviting a door to be taken advantage off. Women complain about being coddled too much, well there you go.

[Galaxo]

Yes it is the right option.

 

Any man who has any kind of respect of adoration for his woman wouldn't demean her and make her feel so worthless that she isn't even important enough to you to pay for a damn drink. It's pure selfishness IMO.

 

But maybe I just care about my girl more than others do about theirs idk.

 

I would usually insist on paying. She was late. She has lost some respect and admiration already as I am going to wonder if she is always late. I use actions, not words. So far her actions are not consistent with someone I would want to be with.

 

I agree. I don't think a guy doesn't "care" for me if he doesn't pay for me. I want to split it with him because I care about him and don't want him to blow all of his money on ME.

 

And yeah, it's not the "right option" for everyone. Definitely is not for me.

 

News flash, if it is the first time your seeing a guy, he doesn't "care" for you yet. Obviously he is interested in you. "care"? If he already does, run as fast as you can.

[Fudgie]

News flash, if it is the first time your seeing a guy, he doesn't "care" for you yet. Obviously he is interested in you. "care"? If he already does, run as fast as you can.

 

Well, I meant in a relationship....since Tom was saying how he always treats his girlfriend and views a lack of him treating her as him "not caring". My boyfriend and I care about each other and we take turns paying so it's basically even.

 

But I agree with you - if it's your first time, then split the check. I don't think it's fair to the guy to have to foot the bill for every first date. Why is he paying for the woman again? Women aren't more special than men. He's really only paying because society expects it of him. I guess "equal rights for women" really isn't there yet, as many women cherry pick the "rights" that benefit them, yet still demand unequal chivalry from guys.

[sadchick83]

Glad to see this thread is still going strong.

 

Has anyone thought of this? I don't date as regularly as I used to, but I remember when I didn't like the guy at all, I would pay because I felt a little guilty that I didn't want to see him again, and did not want him to spend money on someone who had no interest in him.

 

I cannot speak for all women, but I see a lot of men "taking" women these days. I deal with a lot of separations and the man is entitled to half of the woman's income if he makes less. If I sniff out a guy who is so into being equal, who is to say he won't want to take half of my earnings or assets.

 

Oh and my ex was really desperate to jump on my health benefit plan a few months after we started dating (The ex before me just kicked him off her teacher's benefits)....have guys really become this pathetic? I told my ex, when and if you become a good husband, you too can have all the prescription drugs and dental surgery you want.

 

I will always pay for my Mom, my family....but guys-meh- been burned!

[Tanzi]

I would usually insist on paying. She was late. She has lost some respect and admiration already as I am going to wonder if she is always late. I use actions, not words. So far her actions are not consistent with someone I would want to be with.

 

It all depends on her reasons for being late. If it was something beyond her control and she had let him know she was running late and apologised when she met up with him then I would personally lose admiration and respect for someone who could be as petty as to hold it against me on our first date. You can't know whether her actions or consistent or not after just one date. If you can hold a grudge against someone when you don't really know them and they havent had the chance to show you who they really are then it would be huge red flag to me.

 

Whether it is expected or not I think it is common courtesy for someone to offer to pay for your coffee when they invited you out in the first place, especially when they had already bought their own beforehand. Also, whether it is perceived as right or wrong, I have become used to the man always wanting to pay. I have always offered to pay my share but have always been flatly refused. I always put it down to male pride and the man trying to impress. Now, if I were to find myself on a date with a man who didn't want to pay he would probably compare unfavourably to his predecessors. I would probably take it personally as I would assume there was a reason why he didn't want to impress me.

 

Good old fashion chivalry ... thats all it is. Is it wrong that in this day and age we can still be impressed by that and that being treated like a lady can still make us go weak at the knees ... even if that is just buying us a coffee!? And, therefore, can we help it if we are then unimpresed that we find ourselves buying our own coffee when we were the ones asked out on a date. Personally, in this situation, I would have been totally unimpressed. Sorry if that is wrong but going by previous experiences that is just the way I would feel.

[tiredofvampires]

This whole topic is one where I would call myself a moderate. An extreme moderate. Ha.

 

I think it's a mistake for either sex to hinge a big decision like "should I ever date this person again" on one or two acts (unless they are truly outrageous acts). This is one reason why I feel this conversation can become almost absurdly inflated in significance. What does a person's paying on one date say about them in general? Very little. If you make a man's not paying on a date a dealbreaker, that's premature. If you make a woman's not offering to pay on a date a dealbreaker, that's premature. Especially with different interpretations of convention and this being full of grey areas, one must leave room for convention to play itself out until the "real person" starts to emerge a little more. If a woman is a princess, it'll come out in other episodes. If a man is a cheapskate, it'll come out in other episodes. So basing a decision about someone on a single "transaction" is short-sighted. It's suggestive, but certainly not clearly indicative.

 

Likewise, I don't think a woman is a "princess" if she enjoys chivalry. I admit having a fondness for chivalry (as I've said on other threads like this) -- and this is aside of the fact that I feel I'm basically progressive. They're not mutually exclusive states of mind. Peacocks spread their plummage to impress the female. Hummingbirds compete with the quality of their song to impress the female. Even among primates, the alpha male shows his strength to his advantage. In nearly all species, the wooing is done by the male -- and the female is the receptive party. I could write a hundred paragraphs on evolutionary psychology to this effect here, but having once expressed these concepts on a similar thread, it wasn't worth it in the end, so I'll just leave that there. I think that there is a hard-wired, "Let me show you I'm a good provider, and that I'm more of means/more attractive/more competent than the next guy" is a pan-species instinct. I think it's appropriate to adapt within civilization to equality of the sexes in all ways. But when it involves mating and the dance of courtship, I think there is a biological basis for the "gentleman" behavior and for a woman to appreciate that. That does not mean it's going to rule me or all my decisions, which is where MODERATION and being reasonable and fair comes in. I think two people have to consider and respect eachother's expenses and finances, and not take each other for granted. I think there needs to be give and take. But I don't think "gentleman" is or should ever become a dirty word.

 

I also wish there was a corollary word -- "gentlewoman." I feel I'm a gentlewoman in that I provide support, both material and non, as an attentive partner. If I see my date/guy needs help, I'll be there. If I can nurture him with food, or some other display of my affection, time and care, I'll do it gladly. If I can afford something I think he'd get a kick out of, I'll surprise him with it. So, let him be a gentleman, and I'll be a gentlewoman, with a few things being neuter (like opening doors, whoever being closer to the door determining that) and we'll be fair and square.

 

Also, if you are using a single date to "test" me about whether I'm a princess or not, is it not fair that I use a single date to "test" you to see whether you have such an axe to grind about entitled princesses, that it's become disproportionate (and therefore, a red flag)? So we are then testing eachother, aren't we? What a pathetic kind of date that'd be, even though quite fair in my opinion.

[Batya33]

I think when two people meet for the first time through a dating site it doesn't matter who suggested the meeting, the expectation should be that expenses will be shared or split unless the one who suggested the meeting insists on dinner at a place the other person cannot afford or would not choose to afford. That happened to me once -he suggested meeting, I said fine and suggested meeting for a drink and he insisted on dinner at a fancy restaurant. When the check came I knew I did not want to see him again so I offered to split (my share was about twice what I would have otherwise spent on a meal out) and he accepted my offer which I was surprised about. He asked me out again so his accepting my offer wasn't because he wasn't interested in seeing me again.

[goodfoot]

I cannot speak for all men, but I see a lot of women "taking" men these days. I've felt like this is the 800 lb gorilla in the room in discussions like this, but it definitely happens more to guys. If I sniff out a girl who is so into me paying for everything, who is to say she won't take half of my earnings or assets?

[jonny15]

I cannot speak for all women, but I see a lot of men "taking" women these days. I deal with a lot of separations and the man is entitled to half of the woman's income if he makes less. If I sniff out a guy who is so into being equal, who is to say he won't want to take half of my earnings or assets.

 

Oh and my ex was really desperate to jump on my health benefit plan a few months after we started dating (The ex before me just kicked him off her teacher's benefits)....have guys really become this pathetic? I told my ex, when and if you become a good husband, you too can have all the prescription drugs and dental surgery you want.

 

Haven't women been doing everything you said in this part of your post for a zillion years?

 

Are women also pathetic for doing it?

[Galaxo]

Agreed the reason matters. Was traffic normal? Then being late due to traffic is nothing but a excuse. If there was a huge accident then it is different. Too many women only give lip service, and want men to listen to what they say and not what they do. If it kept happening, the apology was worthless. Taking into account taking the only information I have, and wondering if it is going to be a recurring theme is holding a grudge? Not at all.

 

She was late, mistake. He didn't pay for coffee, mistake. Clearly the guy did not hold her being late against her, yet she was here wondering if she should go out with him again. She did not say how late, or if she called to let him know she was going to be late that I saw. That matters too. If not and she was over 15 minutes late I would have been gone.

[Fudgie]

Agreed with jonny. Women benefit most from the divorce.

 

I do think if the women gets custody of the kids, she should get enough money each month from the guy to care for the kids. If not, then no, she doesn't get a penny.

 

But that's not how things work.

 

Read: pre-nups!

[petite]

Women don't always benefit from divorce, they used to but times are changing.

 

Tonight my fiance and I went to dinner with friends and on the menu it said "we do not split bills". I thought that was interesting.

[annie24]

Women don't always benefit from divorce, they used to but times are changing.

 

Tonight my fiance and I went to dinner with friends and on the menu it said "we do not split bills". I thought that was interesting.

 

yeah, some restaurants here don't do that either. it gets confusing when there are more than 6 people.... etc...

[FathomFear]

If I sniff out a guy who is so into being equal, who is to say he won't want to take half of my earnings or assets.

 

So what do you prefer? Getting a guy who doesn't think you're equal but who you'll be able to get half of his assets if there's a divorce, which is what seems to happen to just about all guys these days?

[capuccino83]

Why does this have to be so black and white? Just because I prefer that a guy pay during the first few dates doesn't mean that I'm only interested in his cash, looking for a free ride and don't like to contribute or whatever else might be accused here. That's like a female poster asking about a first or second date with a nice guy who wanted a first kiss and being told that he's only "interested in sex and doesn't value and respect women". I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a first kiss after a great date, nor is there anything wrong with wanting a $3.00 coffee. As my boyfriend (a guy, btw) says when I questioned him on this topic "If a guy is going to get petty about a cheap date, he probably has bigger issues to worry about than dating".

[PhilliesFan001]

If a woman is going to get petty over a cheap date, she probably has bigger issues too. Getting upset over a guy not paying for a $2-3 cup of coffee isn't petty? Not saying OP was upset, but plenty people here sure were.

 

And you expect a guy to pay for the first FEW dates? That seems excessive.

[FathomFear]

"If a guy is going to get petty about a cheap date, he probably has bigger issues to worry about than dating".

 

That's not the point though. Paying for a $3.00 coffee is not remotely difficult for most people. That's not in question. What's in question is the principle of the matter. ie, the idea that the guy "should" pay.

 

I mean, you could just as easily flip it around. If you're not able to pay for your own coffee you likely have bigger issues worth worrying about than dating.

 

And I have no doubt that you "like it" when a guy pays for the first few dates. Who doesn't like having things paid for them? Again, that's not the issue here. It's the principle.

[DylanNotorious]

I think when two people meet for the first time through a dating site it doesn't matter who suggested the meeting, the expectation should be that expenses will be shared or split unless the one who suggested the meeting insists on dinner at a place the other person cannot afford or would not choose to afford.

 

 

I actually like this. This makes good sense.

 

I think the thing that threw the OP off, was that he went through all the motions as if to pay, but then left her standing there like an idiot. I'm convinced this is the real issue at heart!

[BrowneyedMan]

I met someone new last night for a coffee date. He didn't offer to pay for my coffee. Yet he invited me out for coffee.

 

I thought that if a man is interested, he would want to pay to impress a lady. Am I wrong? I got that from the dating books.

 

Although he made a good impression in other ways, I can not forget this.

 

He asked me out again and I accepted by I'm not sure if it's such a good idea.

 

SD

 

P.S. I was gonna leave this forum but I'm back because I'd like to hear what others think about this. In my gut, it feels so wrong. Yet it's such a small thing, I think.

 

 

Hi Sandra, it is such a small thing. Over here in Germany at least, on a first date it is customary that each party pays for their own drink on a first date. It is the first date and you are both trying to get to know the other person. It's a hit and miss thing, and a guy can go on many first dates until he finds a lady he clicks with, so depending on his luck, there is a chance that he might end up spending a lot if he offered to pay every time he got on well with someone. That's why each paying for their own is customary in my country for a first date. Don't know where you are, but maybe that was his thinking, if he is a man who gets himself out there. The impressing a lady by picking up the bill comes later, once you have got on well for at least a second time. So don't worry about it, it didn't make you poor to pay for your own coffee, so just go with the good vibes you got from him and follow your own interest in him and be free to get to know him better, next time. If things go well he will pay in the future.

 

(I personally always offered to pay even on the first date, but then I was told by friends that I am a fool for doing it...)

[Fudgie]

Sounds like Germany got it right!

 

I believe sandra dee is in the USA....I'm from there too. Apparently things are still quite backwards here compared to Europe and men are expected to blow $50+ dollars on first DATES (read: dinner and stuff) for women that they don't even know and if the date doesn't work out, it's never reciprocated, so the money is wasted.

 

Go America!