He didn't pay for my coffee........

[guynextdoor]

It's no longer an issue for me. I am prepared to pay for my share when I am with him for a chance to get to know him. That way' date=' if something develops I know it was his character not his money that influenced me. I don't need a man to take care of me. My thinking had been influenced by those stupid dating books I read. They aren't always right.[/quote']

 

Glad you are seeing this Sandra..

[DylanNotorious]

Sandra

 

This thread has influenced your original concern from the time you posted till now. It did bother you that he didn't spring for coffee and now you've done a complete 360 and now are saying it's all about his character and not about the money.

 

I don't believe you, but let's meet here again soon, to talk about the next problem that this guy surprises you with - because you can bet there will be one.

[Generation]

My girlfriends and I used to rationalize this by saying women had to buy make-up, clothes, beauty product to look great for a date. Men generally don't have this expense.

That's so stupid.

 

Here's what you DON'T know. You don't need make up. You don't need fancy clothes. You're doing this for you more than it is for us. Most men wouldn't really care about your Coach bag, nor would they even notice you're wearing $30 mineral foundation or sterling silver earrings or stilettos. If you wore jeans and a t-shirt and hoodie, we're cool with that. Especially for coffee.

 

Here's the problem with your rationalization, and here's where I turn the tables around.

We have car expenses. The cost of the car itself, gas, insurance, repairs. Sure, we could take the bus, but most women would think way less of us. Women, am I right? While it might not be a deal breaker to some women, it sucks having to ride public transit. Afterall sadchick83, you do know how crappy the TTC can be, right?

[Atrium]

Sandra

 

This thread has influenced your original concern from the time you posted till now. It did bother you that he didn't spring for coffee and now you've done a complete 360 and now are saying it's all about his character and not about the money.

 

I don't believe you, but let's meet here again soon, to talk about the next problem that this guy surprises you with - because you can bet there will be one.

How about she looks at this more long term? If they're very compatible personality wise, I see no reason she shouldn't overlook this one "flaw". Maybe her views aren't compatible with yours. She saw both sides argued in this thread, and is willing to give him a chance, so how about we let her do what she wants?

[guynextdoor]

Your rationalization is so stupid.

 

Here's what you DON'T know. You don't need make up. You don't need fancy clothes. You're doing this for you more than it is for us. Not the man. Am I right men?

 

However, we have car expenses. The car itself for one, gas, insurance, repairs. Sure, we could take the bus, but most women would think way less of us. Women, be honest, I'm right aren't I? While it might not be a deal breaker, it sucks having to ride public transit.

 

Afterall sadchick83, you do know how crappy the TTC can be, right?

 

I rationalize with the fact that I have to get a haircut, shave, get my shirt cleaned and pressed, clean my car so I can look great for the date. LOL!

[DylanNotorious]

Sure! Let's do that.

 

Like I said, I'll see Sandra on her next thread.........

[Atrium]

Sure! Let's do that.

 

Like I said, I'll see Sandra on her next thread.........

Either way, worst case scenario she wasted a night and maybe a couple of bucks, I'd say it's worth it personally.

[Ariel85]

Sure! Let's do that.

 

Like I said, I'll see Sandra on her next thread.........

 

Well, in fairness, she's 42, lost her virginity at 40, and has only recently started dating. So, consider her having the emotional dating intelligence of someone just starting out as a teenager, and one who is easily influenced by others opinions. Remember being 13 and liking a person until one of your friends neg'd on the person? That's all it took.

 

Sandra - I know you don't want to go for more therapy, but at the least, it would be a good investment to hire a personal dating coach.

[Atrium]

Well, in fairness, she's 42, lost her virginity at 40, and has only recently started dating. So, consider her having the emotional dating intelligence of someone just starting out as a teenager, and one who is easily influenced by others opinions. Remember being 13 and liking a person until one of your friends neg'd on the person? That's all it took.

 

Sandra - I know you don't want to go for more therapy, but at the least, it would be a good investment to hire a personal dating coach.

And no offense to anyone here, but I don't think you'll be finding a 'knight in shining armor' at 40+.

[DylanNotorious]

Oh....I didn't know that about the OP

 

Well Sandra we are here for you baby!!!!!!

[Ariel85]

And no offense to anyone here, but I don't think you'll be finding a 'knight in shining armor' at 40+.

 

 

She can still find a knight. He'll just be pretty well-tarnished.

[Generation]

I rationalize with the fact that I have to get a haircut, shave, get my shirt cleaned and pressed, clean my car so I can look great for the date. LOL!

 

YES! how could I forget.

 

Some of us guys get a haircut once every two weeks. That's how often I get mine cause I maintain a certain length.

Shave once every two days, and disposable razors and shaving gel adds up fast!

Shirt cleaned and pressed. Yes, yes.

 

I mean really, I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it for society. If society were cool with me having scruff and the disheveled hair, and I could wear jeans and a tee everyday, then I'd be so bliss!

 

 

Sandra - I know you don't want to go for more therapy, but at the least, it would be a good investment to hire a personal dating coach.

Personal dating coach? Look no further! I'm right here. Me and the other some 74,362.

[tiredofvampires]

I do disagree with this a bit. First of all, there's a whole spectrum between being "cheap" and getting yourself into debt by splurging on big things.

 

I would not want to date someone whom I considered cheap. Cheap doesn't mean that they are careful and judicious as to how they spend their money.

 

Agreed. There's a fine line between "cautious/frugal" (saving where you can and ought to) and "cheap", which is just plain ol' stingy and tight-fisted inability to part with money when it's perfectly reasonable to. For a lot of people, the more money they have, the more they are afraid of every expenditure, big or small, and it almost becomes an affliction. Money becomes more important than people and relating properly.

 

If there's a free meal on the table, all of this goes out the window for most women.

 

You'd be amazed how one meal doesn't go far enough when you're starving.

[quantumst8]

This thread is like the Energizer Bunny.

[20sgal88]

I think it depends on the person. Personally, I wouldn't feel slighted at all if a date didn't pay for me. I've heard that too though, that it's customary for the person asking for the date to pay. I don't pay attention to these rules though. I'm perfectly happy with the relationship being 50/50.

 

I don't really like these social norms that a man is always supposed to pay, open doors for women, etc. I think it should be a reciprocal thing.

[Generation]

Agreed. There's a fine line between "cautious/frugal" (saving where you can and ought to) and "cheap", which is just plain ol' stingy and tight-fisted inability to part with money when it's perfectly reasonable to. For a lot of people, the more money they have, the more they are afraid of every expenditure, big or small, and it almost becomes an affliction. Money becomes more important than people and relating properly.

 

You're right to a degree.

 

Back when I was broke (below the poverty line), and I wasn't skillful at budgeting (I was very young too), I always had the mentality "money comes and goes" and I accepted it. It was normal for me, I never had a taste for luxury in my entire life.

Once I started making more money, I started to realize the value of money, and I said to myself I never want to go back to the time I had barely anything. It was painful, and that's why being frugal is important. I'm future obsessed, and everything I do concerning with finances is to make sure my future children don't have to live under such poor conditions.

[tiredofvampires]

LOL, quantum -- if you put "coffee" and "paying" in the same OP, expect this on ENA.

[Batya33]

And no offense to anyone here, but I don't think you'll be finding a 'knight in shining armor' at 40+.

 

Sandra -I know many many stories to the contrary- and often they are even shinier because they're more mature. I'm not sure I count since I started dating my husband right before my 39th bday.....whew found the knight just in time lol. One of my best friends found her knight at age 47 (they are the same age).

I would be very careful about being on time for the next date and if there is a delay because of a true emergency definitely let him know -I can see that being far more of an issue than paying.

[Jake]

For me, it's not about a sense of entitlement.

 

It's about the simple manners of whomever invites someone on a date, pays. Period.

 

Ariel I completely agree with you on the fact that it's simple manners to pay when you invite someone out on a date. However, there is a thin line to the attitude needed when pertaining to this subject. I agree with everything quoted except the word "Period." When you make it as statement, that is a rule in your book, that is entitlement.

 

I do not mean to put words in your mouth but be very careful on your perspective of what simple manners are.

 

For example, if a man pays for you because, "he's the guy" or because he just knows that's "the rule" then he's not doing it out of manners, much less kindness.

 

 

He is paying instead for two reasons:

 

A.) He's using the rule to his advantage to impress. This is a, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" kind of man. He is no better then cheap person! Why? Because he's utterly selfish.

 

B.) He pays because the rules of dating said say so. He gives into the pure pressure of society. Not the kind of guy you want to be with that doesn't make his own deceive decisions.

 

Both kinds of men are no better then the man who didn't pay. If you really want to know if a man is kind and has manners watch how he treats his mom and sisters.

[Atrium]

Sandra -I know many many stories to the contrary- and often they are even shinier because they're more mature. I'm not sure I count since I started dating my husband right before my 39th bday.....whew found the knight just in time lol. One of my best friends found her knight at age 47 (they are the same age).

I would be very careful about being on time for the next date and if there is a delay because of a true emergency definitely let him know -I can see that being far more of an issue than paying.

The point of my post was don't get hung up on little things because the dating pool is a lot smaller at 40 then it is at 20.

[Batya33]

I think it's a rather broad statement to say that a guy who pays in order to conform can't make his own decisions. That sweeps in all men who hold doors for women by force of habit (i.e. to conform) or other sorts of habitual manners type situations. I think the best way to see if a guy has manners is to see how he treats waiters, customer service people, bus drivers, etc. Mother and sister too but strangers even more so. IMHO.

[Batya33]

The point of my post was don't get hung up on little things because the dating pool is a lot smaller at 40 then it is at 20.

 

For me it was the opposite -it was a lot larger when I was over 35 because I had more confidence, knew myself more and what I wanted, I was financially and otherwise independent and I lived even closer to a major city. Absolutely it's a numbers game to an extent but if you're not ready at 20 or going for the wrong type of people it doesn't matter if there technically exist more single people.

[Generation]

I think it's a rather broad statement to say that a guy who pays in order to conform can't make his own decisions. That sweeps in all men who hold doors for women by force of habit (i.e. to conform) or other sorts of habitual manners type situations. I think the best way to see if a guy has manners is to see how he treats waiters, customer service people, bus drivers, etc. Mother and sister too but strangers even more so. IMHO.

 

Then you got guys like Ted Bundy who seem nice to everyone, neighbors of his saying "oh my gosh, I never would have imagined".

[Batya33]

Then you got guys like Ted Bundy who seem nice to everyone, neighbors of his saying "oh my gosh, I never would have imagined".

 

Yes there are all types of people. That is why it's important to get to know someone over a period of time and observe him in all sorts of situations including stressful ones.

[Generation]

Ohhh I got it... see how he reacts while driving.

 

I dunno about you guys, but I'm like Jekyll and Hyde when it comes to driving. I hate so many drivers, I can't help but utter cusses or palm-face or something.

 

 

('m mostly kidding around right now)