He didn't pay for my coffee........

[Miss Firecracker]

For most women, that isn't the case:

 

A new report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) shows a 49 percent increase in emergency department visits for drug-related suicide attempts for women aged 50 and older.

 

link removed

 

 

 

If you're serious about a relationship, finding someone before you're 40 = probably a good idea.

 

 

 

 

Most of those women are probably "happily" married and menopausal.

[Fudgie]

Who says that those women (50+) are attempting suicide because they are alone?

[annie24]

Who says that those women (50+) are attempting suicide because they are alone?

 

yeah, seriously!!! that was quite a jump there. I didn't see a correlation either.

[Blue Spiral]

Who says that those women (50+) are attempting suicide because they are alone?

 

I do.

 

And it told me the message is too short, so: it's common sense.

[Fudgie]

I do.

 

And it told me the message is too short, so: it's common sense.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it. And I think if you surveys those women, you will find that many, many of them are married.

 

Being married/being in a relationship is not enough to curb suicide. If you believe that it does, that I'm sorry, but you have a lot to learn.

 

I've personally heard of many suicide cases in my area, male and female, and most of them are married or with someone. I can't speak of the health or happiness within that relationship because I don't know, but obviously, it wasn't enough to stop the person. When you get desperate enough, you don't care. And even if you DO feel like dying but the fact that you have a spouse "stops you" from shooting yourself but you don't seek help, what good is your life? You're still miserable and living for someone else, not yourself. I don't really consider that to be good at all.

 

Many people are stuck in unhappy relationships so this isn't really a surprise to me, to be honest.

[Blue Spiral]

Being married/being in a relationship is not enough to curb suicide. If you believe that it does, that I'm sorry, but you have a lot to learn.

 

I actually don't have a lot to learn, as I'm not doing any of that (relationship stuff), so I don't need to know about it. That said, I've dealt with constant suicidal urges for over half my life, and regular sex does help to curb them.

 

To clarify my point: if one desires a monogamous relationship, getting in a good relationship pre-40 needs to happen. Being alone or in a bad relationship post-40 is, in my opinion, the driving force behind the suicides. Also, I am all aboard the "marriage misery" train, believe me.

[Fudgie]

I actually don't have a lot to learn, as I'm not doing any of that (relationship stuff), so I don't need to know about it. That said, I've dealt with constant suicidal urges for over half my life, and regular sex does help to curb them.

 

To clarify my point: if one desires a monogamous relationship, getting in a good relationship pre-40 needs to happen. Being alone or in a bad relationship post-40 is, in my opinion, the driving force behind the suicides. Also, I am all aboard the "marriage misery" train, believe me.

 

This is called depression. You need to get some help.

 

I've had depression for the past 11 years. It's horrific advice to say to people with it that "regular sex helps it", like it's some treatment that can be relied on. Uh, no it doesn't. If "regular sex" was so great with depression, then why did my much older ex fall deeper and deeper into depression, despite me WANTING to have sex with him, to the point that I ended up having to leave him? It's a load of bull. Sex is not going to cure/effectively treat the symptoms of actual clinical depression.

 

Depression will remain the same or get worse in relationships, therefore ruining the relationship. Anyone with depression, I don't suggest that they get into a relationship at all unless they are getting treatment....therapy, meds, or both. Something that works. You simply cannot be a good partner with untreated depression. And sex isn't going to help you much in the long run. You're still going to feel crummy.

 

I've read a lot of your posts, Blue Spiral. And to be honest, it sounds like you do feel a bit crummy. It sucks feeling crummy. Wouldn't you like to feel better?

[ProtestTheHero]

Some people have already expressed how I feel about this issue. I LOL'd hard at the comment "this is bigger than you now."

 

I never pay for a woman on the first meetup unless I know her pretty well. For instance, if we've had the same class for three months and talked or something like that, I'll pay on the first date because I already have a feel for what she's like and whether I like her.

 

However, most of the time my first "dates" are with women I've asked out after a conversation at a friend's party -- 99% of the time we've had no prior contact and I know nothing about her. If I like the brief time I've spent with her in the run-in, I'm down for a one-on-one. However, I have no idea how I feel about this person yet. I know next to nothing about the woman. In this scenario, I do some screening. First off, I wouldn't have bought the coffee, either -- not because I couldn't buy someone 1000 coffees, but because I don't spend money on someone I'm not sold on. I'm also interested in the reaction. If she's totally unfazed and prepared to pay for her way, that's awesome. She'll never pay for any aspect of a date with me ever again. If she's looking at me blankly or visibly not pleased with the fact that I didn't pay, she won't hear from me again. It's nothing personal -- I just go out of my way to avoid that level of entitlement. I love spending money on people that don't expect it and I hate forking over cash for people with their hands out.

 

If she tells me I'm not a gentleman, I'll try my best to care. I've met a lot of gentleman and the women who love them and I can't say I really care to be around either. I put a lot of emphasis on being interesting, and huffing and puffing because I didn't do what your mom told you to expect is not my idea of interesting. Looks like the OP already gave this dude a shot, though. That's cool.

[Generation]

Bolded for the parts where I jizzed, this is like the best post in this thread so far. Seriously.

[Batya33]

I actually don't have a lot to learn, as I'm not doing any of that (relationship stuff), so I don't need to know about it. That said, I've dealt with constant suicidal urges for over half my life, and regular sex does help to curb them.

 

To clarify my point: if one desires a monogamous relationship, getting in a good relationship pre-40 needs to happen. Being alone or in a bad relationship post-40 is, in my opinion, the driving force behind the suicides. Also, I am all aboard the "marriage misery" train, believe me.[/quote

 

I should clarify that I agree that women who want to be in a serious relationship and have a (biological) baby- or more than one child - should probably start trying by age 40 to be on the safe side. I do think freezing eggs is now more of a viable option than ever but not financially viable for many people. In my experience and those of so many of my friends, finding a good, healthy relationship can be extremely difficult and even more difficult with silly "time pressure" (again, unless there's the pressure of the bio clock) -it's not like "wow I better find a good PhD program by age 30 if I can hope to be starting my career by age 35). That's what is depressing - women who put themselves under so much needless pressure to meet the right guy by a certain age. That's what usually leads to bad choices.

[FathomFear]

Is this our weekly (daily?) 10+ page thread on whether men should be expected to pay for dates? I feel like just going back to the other threads and cutting & pasting responses to hurry along the process, lol.

[DylanNotorious]

I don't think the OP ever intended for this guy to pay.

 

What baffled her (and me) was that he went through the whole process of asking what sort of coffee she would like, went up to the counter with her and he ordered it, but then he just stood there and didn't pay.

 

That's just stupid in my eyes.

[FathomFear]

I don't think the OP ever intended for this guy to pay.

 

What baffled her (and me) was that he went through the whole process of asking what sort of coffee she would like, went up to the counter with her and he ordered it, but then he just stood there and didn't pay.

 

That's just stupid in my eyes.

 

That's not the impression I got after reading her first post. "I thought dudes were supposed to pay to impress a lady" doesn't exactly give the impression that she ever intended on paying anything.

 

The long and short of it is that straight guys are still put in a position where they're encouraged to initiate first dates, and people who initiate social encounters are encouraged to pay. It's pretty much damned if you, damned if you don't. Until women get over the whole "I'm a special unique snowflake whose attention and time need to be fought over" routine, I doubt this will change much.

[im sandra dee]

We haven't done the comedy club thing yet but it's on the list. He has asked me to go out for dinner tomorrow and I accepted. I don't know what everyone has to say but I'm gonna bring some money just in case and when the bill shows up at the table, I will take out my wallet and prepare to pay my share. I will say it like this: "I can help you out with that". I think that I read that in one of the dating books. This should be interesting

[annie24]

I find that they stop me as I am reaching for my purse. And of course, definitely have money for yourself, just in case he lets you pay. You can also offer to pay for parking, or a drink or dessert after dinner.

[Batya33]

We haven't done the comedy club thing yet but it's on the list. He has asked me to go out for dinner tomorrow and I accepted. I don't know what everyone has to say but I'm gonna bring some money just in case and when the bill shows up at the table, I will take out my wallet and prepare to pay my share. I will say it like this: "I can help you out with that". I think that I read that in one of the dating books. This should be interesting

 

I wouldn't say that unless he grabs for the check and starts to take out his credit card but if the check is on the table wait a few seconds to see if he takes it and if he does smile and say "oh, what's my share?" (unless you already know and then just put down $ or a credit card).

[Realitynut]

I like the idea of NOT saying, " do you want me to pay my share," after all, weren't they free?? or was that just the comedy club, and not the meal...anyway, I still like the man to pay for the meal, and you could ask, would you like me to pay for the drinks? or you could say, since you're buying me dinner, would you mind if I bought us dessert? That way he can still be a MAN (yes, I am old school) but you can still "treat" him too!

 

Like I said previous posts, my ex made oh, about 50 thousand more than me a year, so he'd pay, and sometimes I'd say, can leave a tip?

 

But life is a great equalizer, just cuz I like a man to pay for my dinner, doesn't mean I don't help out in other ways. Like making him a nice dinner at my house!!

[Ariel85]

I will take out my wallet and prepare to pay my share. I will say it like this: "I can help you out with that". I think that I read that in one of the dating books. This should be interesting

 

How delightfully emasculating. What book was this tip in?

 

Why would you offer to pay for anything when someone else has invited you out? Would you expect the same if you were treating someone?

[tiredofvampires]

I like Batya's wording way better than "I can help you with that," to be honest. I know we're quibbling over words, but sometimes fine shades of meaning in certain situations convey a lot. "I can help you with that" may be just fine for some men (a little more traditional), but for others, it may sound a little like this is first and foremost his duty and you're doing him a big favor with your generosity.

 

This is the way it usually has gone for me (mind you, this is a more traditional type of dinner where he's invited me, picked me up and we're both "officially" on a romantically-inclined date, with interest in each other already established on previous more casual get-togethers, interaction, etc.)

 

(check comes [honestly, I can't remember a single time when he wasn't the one to say, "we'll have the check, please", setting the scene to pay], and I try to keep my eyes open for its arrival):

 

-- I waste no time going to my purse to retrieve my wallet and simultaneously reaching over to have a look at the check, while saying, "Okay, how much was mine?"

-- He immediately protests (often yanking the check away), saying, "No! Are you crazy? I'm getting this!"

-- I say, "No, I can't let you do all that yourself!" (and yes, I genuinely feel a bit bummed for his sake every time, ha ha)

-- He promptly refuses my money. I make a couple more feeble but persistent attempts by saying stuff like, "That's not fair" and since we both know it's going nowhere, there's usually some giggling

 

This routine is so classic, it's happened my entire life with ONE exception, when a man told me "Sure," as I offered to pay. Being completely candid, that took me so off guard as a first "real" date (we had met for coffee before and paid our own ways). I wouldn't (didn't) write him off based on that, but my knee-jerk reaction was, "Wow, that sure was easy."

 

Normally, in a relationship, I'm paying as often as I can and offering my share as equally as I can. It's just that whole first date scenario.

 

God, I hate it with a passion for all this crap you have to navigate. lol

 

It's another reason I'd much rather have started out on a friendship/casually hanging out footing, where we've already mutually fought it out over tabs, where sometimes I've won and sometimes I've lost -- so that if it's our first "romantic" rendezvous, he's already aware that he won't have to do this every time and can enjoy being a "gentleman" this time, and I can enjoy the feeling of being treated without worrying about how this looks on my end.

 

But have fun Sandra.

 

(And even if the tickets are FREE, of course I'd thank him for the very gracious treat [cuz really, he could have spent them on someone else].)

[Batya33]

I meant for the typical drink/food minimum at these comedy places, not for the tickets.

[tommytoxen]

What! I'd dump him.

 

I'd be ashamed of myself if I was him, but I'm old fashioned, I NEVER let my girl pay for food or drink when I take her out! She's my girl, and I see it as my honour to pay for her

[DylanNotorious]

I hope Sandra didn't take her dating books with her on the date. Has she had it yet? Does anybody know?

 

Looking forward to the update!

[goodfoot]

What! I'd dump him.

 

I'd be ashamed of myself if I was him, but I'm old fashioned, I NEVER let my girl pay for food or drink when I take her out! She's my girl, and I see it as my honour to pay for her

 

Come on man, we just started making progress.

[FathomFear]

What! I'd dump him.

 

I'd be ashamed of myself if I was him, but I'm old fashioned, I NEVER let my girl pay for food or drink when I take her out! She's my girl, and I see it as my honour to pay for her

 

It's completely within your right to pay if you want to--or to challenge other guys to duels or any other antiquated tradition you can think of. That doesn't mean, however, that this is the "right" choice or the only option. It's 2011 after all.

[tommytoxen]

It's completely within your right to pay if you want to--or to challenge other guys to duels or any other antiquated tradition you can think of. That doesn't mean, however, that this is the "right" choice or the only option. It's 2011 after all.

 

Yes it is the right option.

 

Any man who has any kind of respect of adoration for his woman wouldn't demean her and make her feel so worthless that she isn't even important enough to you to pay for a damn drink. It's pure selfishness IMO.

 

But maybe I just care about my girl more than others do about theirs idk.