Why do people get married?!

[rocio]

I'm not saying you should live your life by statistics, but that is very unwise to ignore them (although I'm heavily biased here as a stat major). Would you ignore such odds in any other life altering decision? I think such a study would also be fascinating but very difficult to do right. There are also many people who stay together and constantly cheat on each other? Would that qualify as a "successful" marriage? Not to me.

 

I agree that it is unwise to ignore the statistics. It's also unfortunate that it tends to be women who see marriage with these rosey glasses that tell them it's all about security with no risk. In my opinion, while there certainly is considerable risk to men, there is often even more risk to women. Many women think they've struck gold when they find a man who makes enough money that they're able to stay home with the kids and rely on him for financial support. Once the marriage starts to fall apart, they can no longer stand on their own feet. That's a fairly extreme case, but the reality is that - even though career oriented women these days start off marriage with a higher education and high earnings - they tend to take time off when their children are small, work part time, turn down promotions because it takes too much time away from the family, etc. So what you'll find is that, several years into the marriage, the woman is earning much less than her full potential. Other women who don't go into the marriage with a profession will avoid pursuing a more secure career because she has this false sense of security.

 

There are risks on both sides. That doesn't mean one should necessarily avoid marriage altogether. But to say, "I don't live my life by statistics, I know my marriage is special, I don't have to worry about that..." is not prudent.

 

I also agree that the divorce statistics don't give an indication of the share of marriages that fail vs. succeed. Many marriages that don't end in divorce are an utter failure.

[OptomisticGirl]

You should know by now I don't work with statistics Tres. Whether you like to admit it or not, it CAN be a factor for a marriage to fail just like anything else in this world can. Although I was stating it was a reason people don't want to go into marriage.

 

Wrong. Not wanting to relinquish control of one's life to a spouse is not a statistically proven reason for a marriage to be more likely to result in divorce.

 

By the same token two people who totally throw themselves into a marriage and just go at it with reckless abandon and complete trust in their partner are not necessarily going to be any more successful than those who play their cards a bit closer to their vest. The same argument is trotted out in the old argument for and against prenuptual agreements. Some say "oh if there's a prenuptual agreement the marriage is likely to fail because they think it will".

[tresqua]

And you gain a good deal in having another person in your corner, if you choose the right spouse. They also entrust a good chunk of their life to you..so it would be mutually beneficial then, to work towards each others best interests, don't you think?

 

Sure in an ideal world, the decisions that we make in our early to mid 20s (on average) will be the correct ones and we will choose a partner who is so compatible with us that things will go smoothly for the next 50 years.

 

But it doesn't work that way... which is why most marriages fail. People don't always make good decisions, at the time that they make them, they are young, impulsive, inexperienced and they let their emotions rule their actions.

 

I don't think people intentionally decide to sabatoge their marriages, sure it would be in their best interests to get along great and work together to have a life long satisfying and fulfilling union, however human nature is such that it doesn't work out that way.

[tresqua]

You should know by now I don't work with statistics Tres. Whether you like to admit it or not, it CAN be a factor for a marriage to fail just like anything else in this world can. Although I was stating it was a reason people don't want to go into marriage.

 

I understand that you choose to ignore the statistics and just sort of wing it. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's how you choose to live your life and you are willing to accept the consqeuences.

 

I do not agree that being aware of the statistics and considering the possibility of failure will somehow increase the chances of the marriage failing, I could easily make the argument for the reverse.. those who are concerned about the high failure rate of marriage but choose to move forward may just take steps to make sure they do the best they can to choose the right partner and not rush into anything, and avoid common pitfalls that cause other marriages to fail.

[OptomisticGirl]

I understand that you choose to ignore the statistics and just sort of wing it. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's how you choose to live your life and you are willing to accept the consqeuences.

 

I do not agree that being aware of the statistics and considering the possibility of failure will somehow increase the chances of the marriage failing, I could easily make the argument for the reverse.. those who are concerned about the high failure rate of marriage but choose to move forward may just take steps to make sure they do the best they can to choose the right partner and not rush into anything, and avoid common pitfalls that cause other marriages to fail.

 

You seem to think that because we ignore the statistics, we are winging it. We aren't. Victoria and I both are children of divorce, we have saw first hand what a failed marriage does to the parents AND children. Perhaps being children of divorce has shown us what to look for and what to do in our marriages (when I get married I know it did for me. I only know of two couples in my entire life who are still married - my grandparents who will celebrate 52 years this Dec and my fiancé's grandparents (don't know how long they have been together). Everyone else is divorced. My own best friend got divorced after just a year of marriage and she is my age. So I'm not winging it by ignoring statistics, I just chose to know my marriage could end but it may not. I won't put a death sentences on something I don't the end to until, well, it ends.

[tresqua]

You seem to think that because we ignore the statistics, we are winging it.

 

Perhaps I used the wrong wording, allow me to post a retraction.

 

You choose to ignore the statistics, but that does not mean you are winging it.

 

My apologies.

[rocio]

OG, you are winging it. You're moving accross the ocean to marry someone you have spent virtually no time with face to face, you intend to start having children soon after marrying, you work for minimum wage and don't have the employable skills to support a family on your own, you will have no support network in his country... I'm very worried for you in the event that things won't work out the way you hope they will. You are winging it, in an extreme way.

[tresqua]

OG, you are winging it. You're moving accross the ocean to marry someone you have spent virtually no time with face to face, you intend to start having children soon after marrying, you work for minimum wage and don't have the employable skills to support a family on your own, you will have no support network in his country... I'm very worried for you in the event that things won't work out the way you hope they will. You are winging it, in an extreme way.

 

With this new information thus provided, I hereby retract my apology.

[OptomisticGirl]

OG, you are winging it. You're moving accross the ocean to marry someone you have spent virtually no time with face to face, you intend to start having children soon after marrying, you work for minimum wage and don't have the employable skills to support a family on your own, you will have no support network in his country... I'm very worried for you in the event that things won't work out the way you hope they will. You are winging it, in an extreme way.

 

I wing it with my eyes wide open. The same could be said of your own marriage Rocio with you always having to follow your husband were he wants to go and continuing the marriage, even after his emotional affair. We all wing it in different ways.

[tresqua]

This thread is starting to turn into a personal attack situation.

 

I'd rather get back into the statistics..and the pros and cons of marriage vs LTRs..

 

I'll try to get this one back on the rails by a brief mention of my philosophy in life at this time.

 

My marriage and subsequent divorce cost me more emotional hardship and over $250,000 in attorneys fees and a beautiful house and temporary lack of access to my daughters. It all turned out ok, much better than I expected, with money in the bank and a great condo and custody of both my daughters as my ex's "issues" ultimately did all the work for me.

 

But my attitude going forward is that I will never, ever let another woman so far into my life and trust her so much that she can do to me what my ex did, and if that means I will be in and out of more superficial shorter duration relationships for the rest of my natural life than so be it.

 

I'm jaded, and proud of it.

 

And if I had the opportunity to do it all again in my "next life" so to speak, I would never, EVER get married again mainly because even though I have a fairly good handle on myself and I know what I want and when I've found it, you just NEVER know what another person is thinking or what they might be capable of.

 

(And you can't beat that "new car smell" you get with every new relationship and the honeymoon period that goes along with it.)

[avman]

Moderator note: Lets keep the post on topic

[Tanzi]

Well, getting back on track ....

 

Marriage is a choice. A choice made by two people who want to make the ultimate sacrife to each other and who want to take their relationship to the next level. Two people who may want to have children together one day and who want to provide a proper family unit for their children. It is their choice to make just as it is someone's right to chose NOT to get married. Maybe it is just a flowery, fluffy ideal that only stands a 50/50 chance of survival but if we believe it is the right thing to do at the time then so what. My marriage failed. Now, 4 years on from divorce, I have some good memories, some bad memories but, mostly, I have 3 beautiful children from my 12 year marriage and an ex-husband who is happy to support me (financially) in caring for them. Will I get married again? You betcha. Will I believe it will last forever? Who knows.

[rocio]

I'm glad this thread wasn't closed because I respect og's opiniins and wasn't offended. It just goes to show that one person's idea of success is another person's idea of failure.

 

My point though was simply that there are serious financial risks to both men and women in certain marital arrangements, and this is where the statistics become relevant. Both parents and children suffer due to financial vulnerabilities. Us women tend to glaze over those risks, whereas this thread demonstrates that men tend to be more realistic about them.

[Seraphim]

^ Or maybe they place TOO much value on them. I think paying attention almost to the total exclusion of what happens emotionally is also folly.

[rocio]

I should probably alsO note, to avoid future misunderstandings, that my husband has not had an emotional affair, a physical affair or anything resembling either. Of course, that's not to claim we haven't dealt with our own issues. But thankfully, an affair hasn't been one of them.

 

*knock on wood*

[OptomisticGirl]

Same here. Rocio brought up a very good point and one L and I both have never denied, that unlike most marriages we are taking an even bigger risk because of the nature of our relationship. I can see why many see our marriage as being even less likely to succeed because of the transition we have to go through from LDR to normal relationship. It's one we don't ignore, we just choice to be optimistic (no pun intended, lol) and have faith in us. It's all any married couple can do, no matter their marriage.

 

I'm glad this thread wasn't closed because I respect og's opiniins and wasn't offended. It just goes to show that one person's idea of success is another person's idea of failure.

 

My point though was simply that there are serious financial risks to both men and women in certain marital arrangements, and this is where the statistics become relevant. Both parents and children suffer due to financial vulnerabilities. Us women tend to glaze over those risks, whereas this thread demonstrates that men tend to be more realistic about them.

[Alezia]

I'm one of these people who's actually somewhat afraid of marriage and the vows (or so I guess?). I'm not religious and I do get all the benefits of marriage via my good employer and beautiful children. There is just something about the wedding industry that is starting to creep me out - the gifts, the traditions etc...

 

I have not made one concrete step towards getting married ever since I got engaged. I don't mind attending other people's weddings, showers or bachelortette. As soon as the topic of 'MY' wedding comes up, I get really uncomfortable. So I must assume that there is something unconscious that makes me think that getting married is more than living together long term.

 

Maybe it's just because I have this vision of the woman letting herself go, staying at home taking care of children, travelling less etc... Or perhaps I just can't see my vision of MY marriage translate into a traditional marriage and wedding vows.

[greywolf]

Why do people get married?

 

Well, the obvious answer is that the reason is different for everyone. As for me, when I was with a woman, I remember wanting to get married because I wanted some acknowledgment that my relationship was just as serious as a regular couple.

 

I don't have a huge urge to get married. I know that some people really want to get married, but I've never felt that way. But when I'm in a relationship, I feel differently about it. When I'm with someone that I really like and am committed to them long-term, then I'll eventually want to be a family. By family, I don't mean that children have to be involved (though, they may come later on); I mean being a family unit. I'm not saying that you have to get married to feel like you're a family with someone. For those that don't feel the need to get married, good for them; It's probably more practical for a lot of reasons. But for me, I think that I will have to get married to feel like a family with someone. I think that it signifies a point in your life when you decide that from then on, you are partners; it's not just about you anymore.

[Fudgie]

^ Or maybe they place TOO much value on them. I think paying attention almost to the total exclusion of what happens emotionally is also folly.

 

I think you can do both. Protect your assets while still having a good relationship. It's a mix. That's what I would do.

 

Personally, I think I'll get married someday. My ex and I talked about getting married but I wasn't totally deadset on it. I was fine with just being a LTR for a really long time. No rush to marriage for me. I also didn't want his money (he was making 100k, I make nothing) so I would have wanted a prenup.

 

For me, marriage by itself is just as good as a monogamous, LTR. Just my feeling. I was just as committed to B as I would be to him if we were married. I would have left him even if we were married because of his refusal to get treatment. Being married just would have made it harder to do so. Your standards of how your partner should treat you should NOT change when you marry. When you're in a monogamous LTR, you still have to put up with your partner's stuff. You shouldn't just put up with more crap just because you're married. You may be more apt to try to work it out because you're roped into a legal contact but in the end, if you're not happy, you need to leave. Marriage just makes it a little more expensive to do so.

 

That being said, I would still get married. I just won't have the actual party and marriage expense. I would just go get it signed. Why? Because the legal and financial benefits (good tax breaks) are worth it.

 

If marriage didn't entail any legal/financial benefits for both of us, then I doubt I would bother. I don't have the religious beliefs, I don't believe in celibacy before marriage, and I'm not looking for a family so for me, it's not a big deal.

[Honey Pumpkin]

It's a choice, innit? But I still don't believe in it, I still don't think marriage is in any way superior to other relationships, and I definitely don't believe there should be any tax/legal breaks. Mums and dads should be mums and dads legally, and have parental rights and responsibilities, for their children regardless of whether they decided to have a ceremony or not. To me, it seems archaic and outdated. If people want to do it, have at it. BUT it shouldn't make any civic difference in this day and age.

 

I guess people who are married feel they need to defend it. There's no need - it's their choice. But in the same way that religion is a private matter, marriage should be a private matter. I don't think it should confer any legal benefits - that should be done separately.

[Fudgie]

I think it's good to have the legal benefits. It makes a lot of things easier. But I can defintiely see your point about tax breaks. why should one couple get tax breaks because they went through some ceremony but another couple can't? They may both be just as committed.

 

I was ambivalent about the importance of marriage growing up (I come from a family where the parents stayed together, but didn't see marriage as a big deal despite being married) but then I found out about the tax breaks and legal benefits. There are a lot!! That made me decide to do it someday. I can't pass that up. I already want to be with someone and grow old with them. Marriage just allows me to save money whilst doing so.

[Blue Spiral]

There are definitely legal/tax benefits that come along with marriage (and not with, say, civil unions or common-law marriage). Likewise, there are also legal/financial risks that go with it.

 

Being naturally cautious, I'll gladly skip the benefits to avoid the risk, thus keeping what I already have.

[petite]

Not every married couple cares about tax benefits. I'm getting married and am not focused on those benefits at all.

[Seraphim]

Well of course you can still have a good relationship, my comment was more specific to the men on the thread that are only interested in assets and nothing else.

[Seraphim]

Not every married couple cares about tax benefits. I'm getting married and am not focused on those benefits at all.

 

I agree, that was not my concern at all. I don't think the difference is so massive that it is something to get excited about.

 

The other thing is if people think the deck is staked financially in the favour of married people they should get on their legislative bodies and not blame married people or blame them for their choice, just go and tell their respective governments that it is not fair.