Why do people get married?!

[tresqua]

Tres,

 

You gained nothing from your marriage? How about your kids? Do you feel they were nothing gained? If you have the view that nothing was gained your kids will get the perception that they are nothing too.

 

Victoria,

 

I have two beautiful daughters and now a grand daughter, and for the first 10 or 15 years the relationship was great.

 

That much being said, it could have been just as wonderful and I would still have had those two wonderful daughters if we had not gotten married and things would have ended much more smoothly and inexpensively.

 

Another thing that really hasn't been covered much if at all is when there's a large disparity of wealth as in my case. The monied partner has much more of a reason to protect their ASSets than the nonmonied partner. One has everything to lose and the other has everything to gain.

[Batya33]

Totally don't believe in marriage. I think you either stay with someone or you don't; you are faithful to each other or you're not. I am not a fan. I also find it quite irksome (not on this thread) with this assumption that a marriage is somehow 'better' than any other relationship - as if you've made it. It's nice if that's what people want to do with each other, but I totally don't believe in marriage as an institution, and I don't think there should be tax breaks for getting married either.

 

The guy I'm seeing now finds it odd that I don't one day want to get married. I just don't.

 

For me it was a personal accomplishment to be able to get past what was stopping me from making a marital commitment and to be able to commit to my husband without overthinking, overanalyzing, having a realistic perspective about marriage and him and "us" -wow. But no I don't think we are superior to other types of long term exclusive relationships despite a societal view that often seems to suggest that.

[Blue Spiral]

Raising children in a married-couple household is much different than with a girl/boyfriend - that is our personal belief.

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe is different about that?

[FarthestEdge]

To be honest, it's been so long since I said my vows, I can't really honestly say exactly what I was thinking. I know for us, it was a declaration that we were becoming a family in our own right, and planning to have children, we felt marriage was a positive foundation for that. We lived together too, and could have kept doing so, I suppose..but yes, while I expected no change, other than my name, it was surprisingly different.

 

I could tell you why I am happy to be married NOW. Why I value our commitment to see this journey through together. How happy I am that the prospect of enduring divorce was enough incentive to work through the rough spots to get where we are today. I could tell you how good it feels to know that we are both committed to being happy together, and finding new ways to do that as time goes by and we both change and develop new priorities. I could tell you how great it is to feel safe being vulnerable to my spouse, because he knows all about me, good and bad, and continues to love me. I could tell you how great it feels to talk about our retirement plans, and how we are going to achieve our dreams together...because we know we aren't just going to leave the second marriage isn't giving us exactly what we expect...we've been through those times, stuck it out, and know that they are temporary impediments (and simultaneously also the impetus) to growth.

 

I could tell you all that. But the fact of the matter is, one believes in marriage, or one doesn't. If you need people to prove the validity of marriage to you...then it probably isn't FOR you.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that either. The things I get from marriage are things I value...if you don't value what marriage has to offer more than you wish to avoid the downsides of marriage (and I won't pretend there aren't downsides), then it isn't your path to happiness. It has proven to be mine, and a bargain at 10 times the price...

 

But I am always puzzled by the need of people to rip it apart and suggest that it serves no function in society. If it served no real purpose, then why is the gay community fighting so hard for the right to do what you think is useless?

[FarthestEdge]

.

 

Another thing that really hasn't been covered much if at all is when there's a large disparity of wealth as in my case. The monied partner has much more of a reason to protect their ASSets than the nonmonied partner. One has everything to lose and the other has everything to gain.

 

Two words: Prenuptual Agreement.

 

The fact that some people choose not to have them, does not put this risk on marriage. It puts it on the choice to not have a prenup. Common law couples are recognized in many districts anyway, and this can be just as messy, if not messier, than the dissolution of a legal marriage.

 

People who got fleeced in a divorce because they failed to get a prenup simply gambled and lost....it happens

[Blue Spiral]

But I am always puzzled by the need of people to rip it apart and suggest that it serves no function in society.

 

Because that's what some people believe.

 

Incidentally, when one side of a debate says "Let's stop talking about this", it's a sign that the facts are no longer on their side.

 

If it served no real purpose, then why is the gay community fighting so hard for the right to do what you think is useless?

 

If I'd been around in the '50s, I would've fought for African-Americans to be able to drink from the same water fountains, but that doesn't mean I think water fountains are the cornerstone of society. It's the principle of the thing.

[tresqua]

Two words: Prenuptual Agreement.

 

The fact that some people choose not to have them, does not put this risk on marriage. It puts it on the choice to not have a prenup. Common law couples are recognized in many districts anyway, and this can be just as messy, if not messier, than the dissolution of a legal marriage.

 

People who got fleeced in a divorce because they failed to get a prenup simply gambled and lost....it happens

 

Prenups are sometimes successfully challenged and they don't cover things such as spousal support (at least as far as I know).

 

They're a big step in the right direction but not an "end all" when it comes to eliminating the risks associated with a marriage gone bad and subsequent divorce.

 

As far as common law goes, well in some states including my own there is no recognition of common law marriage and in states that do recognize them I'm going to wager a guess that common law marriages are still easier to get out of with less ramifications than those done the more traditional way.

[FarthestEdge]

Incidentally, when one side of a debate says "Let's stop talking about this", it's a sign that the facts are no longer on their side.

.

 

It isn't a debate..It's a choice. A debate implies that there is a correct, and incorrect answer. I don't think that individuals, or society as a whole would be well served if everyone HAD to get married, or if no was was ALLOWED to get married.

 

Which is why the need to insult those who choose it mystifies me. I don't think everyone should get married. It works for me. It clearly wouldn't work for you, so you probably shouldn't ever do it. But why, when marriage serves MY happiness, should I be denied that choice, because YOU don't think it's right for YOU?

 

We are all adults. We face the consequences of our choices. EVERY choice has its consequences. It isn't societies fault that marriages fail. The fault lies with the individuals within the marriage. Frankly in my view, all the statistics really suggest is that there are too many people getting married for the wrong reasons....

[Seraphim]

Exactly, there is no right or wrong answer and no need to belittle another's choice. I personally do not care how anyone else chooses to have their relationship, just do not put mine down, directly or indirectly and I have no issues.

[tresqua]

Incidentally, when one side of a debate says "Let's stop talking about this", it's a sign that the facts are no longer on their side.

 

Not necessarily.

 

It could also be that the side saying "let's stop talking about this" realizes that the argument has become circular and nonproductive with both sides saying the same thing only in different ways, and it's a waste of time and in the case of a discussion forum is derailing the original topic.

 

Now let's not talk about this anymore.

[Seraphim]

Victoria,

 

I have two beautiful daughters and now a grand daughter, and for the first 10 or 15 years the relationship was great.

 

That much being said, it could have been just as wonderful and I would still have had those two wonderful daughters if we had not gotten married and things would have ended much more smoothly and inexpensively.

 

Another thing that really hasn't been covered much if at all is when there's a large disparity of wealth as in my case. The monied partner has much more of a reason to protect their ASSets than the nonmonied partner. One has everything to lose and the other has everything to gain.

 

Then you had 15 years of a really good life and you can not really negate that. Would you REALLY have had your children out of wedlock 20 years ago?? Really? I mean obviously you got married it was something you WANTED to do. You can not really take how you feel now and what you want NOW and apply it to 20 years ago, because that is not what you did. Instead why not be happy about what you did you do and what you did have and the good years you had and the beautiful things that came out of your experience.

[tresqua]

Then you had 15 years of a really good life and you can not really negate that. Would you REALLY have had your children out of wedlock 20 years ago??..You can not really take how you feel now and what you want NOW and apply it to 20 years ago, because that is not what you did. Instead why not be happy about what you did you do and what you did have and the good years you had and the beautiful things that came out of your experience.

 

I am happy to have my two beautiful daughters and a grand child however the memories of the early good years of my marriage have been eclipsed by the ugliness of the divorce and the continued strife with my now exwife.

 

Would I have had children 20 years ago if I had not been married? That's hard to say. If I was going to do it again, then the answer would be "yes".

[petite]

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe is different about that?

 

There are good and bad parents on both sides of the fence - however, I believe there is a better chance of children having a better stable life if the parents are married rather than just in a relationship with no legal commitment. Strength and stability of the relationship is most important of course, and I feel that a marriage brings a good foundation in order to start a family.

 

You might want to read this [link removed (it's a pdf file) and quite interesting.

 

To each their own though. I personally wouldn't spend 10 years with someone in a cohabiting relationship and believe that a marriage is a sacred union of two people which declare their love for one another by legalizing it and setting the necessary foundation in order to continue their journey together. I realize if a person wants to leave a partnership there is no stopping them - but I believe it's possible that people might actually work harder on the partnership if they are married.

That's just my personal view - everyone has a right to do as they wish.

[Batya33]

Agree with this!

[tresqua]

You might want to read this [link removed (it's a pdf file) and quite interesting.

 

Very relevant article.

 

And I quote:

 

"The phenomenon of cohabitation—homes in which two adult partners of the opposite sex live together but are not married—has become much more common over the last 40 years. In 1970, there were 523,000 unmarried-couple households, while in 2000 4.9 million opposite-sex couples cohabited... the proportion of children who will live in a cohabiting household at some point during their childhoods is estimated to be four in 10.26"

 

It appears that people are finally starting to get it. Marriage is NOT the answer.

[Batya33]

Very relevant article.

 

And I quote:

 

"The phenomenon of cohabitation—homes in which two adult partners of the opposite sex live together but are not married—has become much more common over the last 40 years. In 1970, there were 523,000 unmarried-couple households, while in 2000 4.9 million opposite-sex couples cohabited... the proportion of children who will live in a cohabiting household at some point during their childhoods is estimated to be four in 10.26"

 

 

And we don't know how many of those people are engaged to be married soon, are separated but can't afford to live separately, are just friends and have gay partners outside of the main relationship, where one of the partners stays for financial reasons but would much prefer to be married, or whether they are happily unmarried. You simply cannot draw the conclusion you draw just from those numbers.

[petite]

Very relevant article.

 

And I quote:

 

"The phenomenon of cohabitation—homes in which two adult partners of the opposite sex live together but are not married—has become much more common over the last 40 years. In 1970, there were 523,000 unmarried-couple households, while in 2000 4.9 million opposite-sex couples cohabited... the proportion of children who will live in a cohabiting household at some point during their childhoods is estimated to be four in 10.26"

 

It appears that people are finally starting to get it. Marriage is NOT the answer.

 

 

That is just a small quote from the article and just because it's becoming more common (I think because people don't want the level of legal commitment a marriage entails) does not make it superior. The same argument can be made by saying "having children unless married is not the answer and people should be using protection more than they do" and quoting other parts of the article which state why it might be better to raise children in a married-couple household.

 

Marriage might not be the answer for you, perhaps because of your experiences or people you might know - but that doesn't mean that it's not the right answer for others and that they wont lead happy married lives. I can't look into the future and predict what my future married life will be like, but I'd like to believe that there is more to life than just having a boyfriend - I actually want a legal commitment, the hard work a marriage requires and the vows - and to hopefully raise a child with a husband.

I realize it's not what everyone wants, but that's just me.

[_Asti_]

Marriage might not be the answer for you, perhaps because of your experiences or people you might know - but that doesn't mean that it's not the right answer for others and that they wont lead happy married lives. I can't look into the future and predict what my future married life will be like, but I'd like to believe that there is more to life than just having a boyfriend - I actually want a legal commitment, the hard work a marriage requires and the vows - and to hopefully raise a child with a husband.

I realize it's not what everyone wants, but that's just me.

 

Thats what Im thinking.

 

Why sit here and argue 'who's right' when clearly people have different opinions. Obviously if you don't want to get married, thats your choice..just like getting married is also a choice to be made. Its not for everyone. If you don't believe in marriage, you won't argue and win your point to someone who does, and vice versa.

 

I respect peoples reasons for chosing not to get married, and would hope that people would have the basic courtesy to respect my choice for getting married. Obviously you won't agree with the reasons because OF COURSE..you don't believe in marriage. Don't knock on people who still continue that practice.

[rocio]

I think there's some room for compassion here. We've all had different experiences. Someone who is engaged or has been married for 4 months is obviously going to have a different outlook than someone who has been through a nasty divorce accompanied by financial ruin. Tresqua has legitimate concerns and does represent a fairly large share of the population. He happens to be the only man commenting on here, so that he's clearly outnumbered. But it is true that for many men, marriage comes with a lot of risks and some inequities that our legal system is still working to iron out.

[MsMargarita]

Wow, this is my most popular thread ever! Well, I came to a decision myself yesterday that things are worth when you make them worth. This debate has clearly come to this too =)

[NowandZen]

I think there's some room for compassion here. We've all had different experiences. Someone who is engaged or has been married for 4 months is obviously going to have a different outlook than someone who has been through a nasty divorce accompanied by financial ruin. Tresqua has legitimate concerns and does represent a fairly large share of the population. He happens to be the only man commenting on here, so that he's clearly outnumbered. But it is true that for many men, marriage comes with a lot of risks and some inequities that our legal system is still working to iron out.

 

Ahem ........

 

I would think the most egregious inequities in the legal system, that of child custody, would occur whether one was married or not.

[rocio]

Ahem ........

 

I would think the most egregious inequities in the legal system, that of child custody, would occur whether one was married or not.

 

My bad. I do realise that you posted your thoughts on this topic several pages back. The most recent comments (those that have become argumentative) have been between one man and several women.

 

It's also interesting to note that 2-sided coin was somewhat neutral on the issue. The other men who posted - 90 hr sleep, Blue Spiral, Pinnacle, and Tresqua - were quite similar in their views. I think that's very telling. There seems to be a trend of men who are weary of the risks - financial and otherwise - of marriage, while women don't tend to perceive risks but rather tend to expect more security. Even looking through this thread, the incentives to marry for men vs. women seem very unbalanced.

[NowandZen]

My bad. I do realise that you posted your thoughts on this topic several pages back. The most recent comments (those that have become argumentative) have been between one man and several women.

 

It's also interesting to note that 2-sided coin was somewhat neutral on the issue. The other men who posted - 90 hr sleep, Blue Spiral, Pinnacle, and Tresqua - were quite similar in their views. I think that's very telling. There seems to be a trend of men who are weary of the risks - financial and otherwise - of marriage, while women don't tend to perceive risks but rather tend to expect more security. Even looking through this thread, the incentives to marry for men vs. women seem very unbalanced.

 

Well I suppose they almost always have been. Without social pressure to marry, I suppose a lot of men would not. For me it's a partnership, and both bring something to it. Once again it's not for everybody, and really relationships in general are not for wimps.

[rocio]

relationships in general are not for wimps.

 

Aint that the truth!

[Seraphim]

I think there's some room for compassion here. We've all had different experiences. Someone who is engaged or has been married for 4 months is obviously going to have a different outlook than someone who has been through a nasty divorce accompanied by financial ruin. Tresqua has legitimate concerns and does represent a fairly large share of the population. He happens to be the only man commenting on here, so that he's clearly outnumbered. But it is true that for many men, marriage comes with a lot of risks and some inequities that our legal system is still working to iron out.

 

Sure there is room for compassion and I am sure he has been hurt, however slagging the choice of others usually does not garner people a lot of sympathy. I do not care what anyone's choice is, because I do not have to live it, but no respect is shown to mine I am probably going to debate a bit. Being hurt by someone else is no reason to show lack of respect for others.