Won't live with me until we're married???

[Applewhite]

Ls is not obligated to have him there through the entire labor if it's going to stress her out. The father's presence is not nearly as important as the health of the mother and baby, and the comfort of the mother. If she is upset or stressed by him, her body will become tense making the labor more difficult and risky.

 

I think it's entirely fair to have him there during the pushing stage but not prior.

 

Exactly. And this is what makes your opinion extreme in my opinion OG.

[OptomisticGirl]

Exactly. And this is what makes your opinion extreme in my opinion OG.

 

Considering I only suggested he be there prior to her pushing as a way to make him feel more involved, I don't see it as extreme. Your post made it sound like he had no right to be in the room during abut of the labor.

[lostnscared]

I know this--I'm just saying that not every man gets the luxury of being there during the labor and they still are able to bond with their children. In many cases, the man will find himself getting to the labor at the latter end anyway, because a majority of the time a woman does not know when she will go in labor. Her husband could be at work, could be in a meeting, could be hours away. So for a lot of men they aren't there during the entire labor. Again I don't even know where I'll having the labor, or what will happen. I know that I have not included him, but there will be plenty of room for inclusion when he names the babies, and cares for them as they get older, also will be plenty of room for inclusion even at the end of labor when he gets to hold his babies. I do think he will be able to bond, even if he misses labor, or isn't there for the labor.

[OptomisticGirl]

All I'm suggesting is look at the timeframe. Yes, he has the rest of his life to bond with the babies and he gets them to name them - but again, compared to nine months that isn't much. My only suggestion is if you want this relationship to work, at all, one control freak to another, you have to start including him more in major decision making or he is going to feel like you make all the choices not only for the two of you but your kids as well - and that is not s good environment for the kids.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I've decided that since my dad is another state anyway, I just won't tell him that my bf isn't living with me. It just isn't my dad's business anymore anyway.

 

Since your dad was kind and generous enough to buy you this house, I think it would be a real slap in the face to him to not tell him if your bf chooses not to move in. It is a courtesy to tell him and not to keep it a big secret from him. There is nothing to feel badly about, these things happen. The house is for you..your father bought it for you to make you happy. It really has nothing to do with your boyfriend at all. So while your father may be disappointed, it will be disappointment based on his love for you and wanting good things for you and for you to be happy.....not really be about the house or the money he spent. You will likely hurt him very badly if you keep it a secret from him.

 

Regarding the birthing process, while it often helps the father bond with the baby if he is there for the birth, generations of men bonded just fine with their babies even though they were not present at the birth. Although in more modern times men have the option of being at the delivery, that was not always the case. So it is not a necessity for the man to be there. A good and decent man will step up to the plate and help out even if he is not allowed in the delivery room. In the case of birth, the woman's comfort level is the top priority since she is the one going through the pain. Sometimes people just don't want their loved ones to see them in pain and discomfort. It is an individual choice.

[Batya33]

I wanted my husband there (he was hours away -he arrived right after I got the epidural lol) and more importantly he knew I wanted him there if he wanted to be there (he did). But I would never think it was the father's "right" to be there during the birthing process -and neither did he. I would hope that the couple who loved each other would make a decision together that was in the best interests of the mother and child -- without a focus on "rights"--and with a foundation of trust that the mother wouldn't keep him from the room unreasonably and that the father wouldn't insist on being there over the mother's objections. Having been through the whole process what was paramount in my very personal opinion was a healthy, safe and as comfortable environment as possible for me and the baby. And so when a particular nurse turned on her loud "cheerleading" voice when I was trying to push I told her directly but politely that she needed to stop, right then. And the other nurses looked at her and made sure she did. And she apologized. I can see where if the husband, as dear as he is, as well-intentioned as he is, has a style that makes the mom's skin crawl during a happy -but stressful! -time as labor he should not be there or at least be limited in the time he is there before the baby is born.

[Applewhite]

Yes, he has the rest of his life to bond with the babies and he gets them to name them - but again, compared to nine months that isn't much.

 

Lol the rest of their life 'isn't much' compared to the 9 months spent carrying them in a tummy? See, this is what I mean What would you like her to do? Cut them out and implant them in his beer belly?

[Applewhite]

This is an unconventional idea, but what do you think about considering hiring a live in aupair (is that how you spell it?) instead of a nanny. In exchange for room and board (and maybe a little bit of spending money?) they can stay there 24/7 and help out. Talk it through with your mom and dad and get their ideas. This way the space of the house won't be waisted and in fact put to good use.

 

In terms of what Batya mentioned about being truthful to your dad I agree. You don't have to of course and only you know better the dynamics of your family and how to avoid drama or just unpleasant feelings etc.

 

I somewhat agree with OG's and others opinions about including him in the decision making process and seeing his point of view more (other than the birth issue obviously - and the health safety issues Batya stated are a big part of my opinion on this). However I also think that IF he has it in him to step up to the plate he will by stopping the smoking/drinking doint everything necessary to care for the twins etc. And whether or not you are a little bit more giving and open minded, compromising about your relationship conflicts has little to do with this.

[OptomisticGirl]

Lol the rest of their life 'isn't much' compared to the 9 months spent carrying them in a tummy? See, this is what I mean What would you like her to do? Cut them out and implant them in his beer belly?

 

Hike, if you are going to discect my posts and ONLY point out the bad, I'm not even going to bother with responding. If you take the time to read ANY of this thread this isn't just a one time thing with control and while he has the rest of his life to bond with them, this is a crucial stage for father to bes. Or, perhaps I believe fathers have just as much right as mothers do while other women seem to think fathers are beneath mothers. Who knows.

[OptomisticGirl]

And I completely understand that. AGAIN, it was only a suggustion to make him feel like he was part of the process.

[Applewhite]

Any woman who takes away a man's right to watch the brith of his children then yes, has no right to demand he step up to the plate afterward.

 

It may have been just a suggestion but I think this was a cruel thing to say. And even if you now 'understand' what Batya has explained I don't think you realize the severity of the situation sometimes when responding to posts with suggestions.

[OptomisticGirl]

It may have been just a suggestion but I think this was a cruel thing to say. And even if you now 'understand' what Batya has explained I don't think you realize the severity of the situation sometimes when responding to posts with suggestions.

 

I"m very well aware of the severity Hike, it's not like I am a 14 year old. And I still stand by that post. As I said, this entire pregnancy LS has been holding up a sign saying she can do it all on her own, that she doesn't need her BF's help with this or that and not including him in major decisions - how he couldn't feel like he isn't needed after the birth I don't know. But again, it's apparently something some women don't deem men have the same right to as women. We will have to agree to disagree.

[avman]

Knock it off you two.

[Saffron_]

Any woman who takes away a man's right to watch the brith of his children then yes, has no right to demand he step up to the plate afterward. Again, it's not a me, me, me, me, me situation. A man has just as much right as woman does in this scenario.

 

Uhhh no I don't think so. No man has a 'right' to watch the birth of his child. Giving birth is about the mother and baby and their welfare comes above everything else. When women give birth they're not only going through a lot of pain and stress but they're very exposed. They need calm and support, not added stress which even when a partner is supportive, they might feel with them in the room and so choose to labour alone. It's well nown that stress from the mother can complicate the labour process which is why in hospitals if a woman wants her partner to leave the room, the staff will make that happen! As for a man not stepping up to the plate because he's not been present at the birth, well some men give pathetic excuses for their lack of involvement but that's all they are, excuses!

 

OG, rights only come into play once a baby has been born. The woman has a right to medical privacy. No one has a right over anyone elses body which is why men cannot demand or prevent a woman getting an abortion.

[Applewhite]

Glad I wasn't the only one dumbstruck by that response. It just hit a nerve or something with me LOL.

[Seraphim]

Years ago men were not even allowed in the room at all. My father in law never saw his kids be born. My dad never saw his kids be born. In fact my father in law was entirely grossed right out that my husband wanted to see his kid be born. I wanted him there,he intitially was not keen on it. Inretrospect though I sure wish he had not been there. He caused me so much anxiety I wanted to kill him. He did not do one thing, when I asked for anything he looked put out, he whined about being tired. He would not get the nurse when my son's pulse plummeted, I had to scream for her myself. I mean he was worse than useless. Some men actually do not belong in a delivery room. They ARE however still responsible for caring for their children.

[petite]

There seems to be so much dysfunction, lack of communication and understanding in this relationship; and that is really concerning. Both individuals seem to be acting like teenagers with constant change of decisions. You’re bringing a life into this world and as such should be working together as a team – in order to make the best possible living situation for the children and yourselves. Issues seem to have existed prior to your pregnancy – and in my humble opinion you both need to sit down face to face and discuss this accordingly as mature adults and decide what you both want. If you want different things work around making a schedule for both parents to be involved in the children's lives. The relationship should be a concern to both and perhaps you both need to re-think whether you want to be together – if you do I seriously suggest you both see individual therapists to work on your own issues and a separate relationship therapist/counselor to help you deal with the issues within your relationship, and how to overcome those problems.

 

Smoking is detrimental to ones health, and particularly little people (children). However, pointing fingers, he said this, I want that, he wants other is not helping anyone – other than making the situation even more burdensome.

[OptomisticGirl]

Again, everyone is taking everything out of context. In a normal situation yes, just because a man misses the birth of his children doesn't mean he doesn't have to step up. Most men aren't excluded from major pregnacy decisions either as the father to be has. Again, my only advice TO LS was to consider having him there sooner to make him feel more involved since she herself has admitted up til now she has felt he has no say so in what happens. And again, it was only advice that if he isn't there it could cause a wider gap. To me its extremely controlling - and again, this is from a control freak - to exclude a father during major decisions during pregnacy and then demand he be there for you when you want him there and then wonder why he is backing out of plans made months before. Not a hit at LS but as a fellow control freak, when you decide to do everything yourself but then want peoples help that you have pushed away, it makes it harder for them. Again, we will all have to disagree on when a father gets rights. Obviously everyone has q different opinion.

[OptomisticGirl]

Out of curiosity - is everyone thinking I'm saying he shouldn't step up at all or that the mother shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't step up to her expectations - if he has been denied major decision making?

[rocio]

Out of curiosity - is everyone thinking I'm saying he shouldn't step up at all or that the mother shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't step up to her expectations - if he has been denied major decision making?

 

No, I think they're saying that, while fathers do have equal parental rights, they do not have an equal right to participate in the delivery. That's a right nature has already bestowed upon women. And I think that should go without saying. I've never heard someone express this view before, OG.

[OptomisticGirl]

Out of curiosity - are you guys thinking I'm saying he shouldn't have to step up AT ALL? Because if so I apologize, I in no way meant that!

[OptomisticGirl]

Rocio - -really? I must be odd then because I do think men while they may not have the right to say whether you hwve an epidursl or water birth do have a right to be present. But again, I must be odd, lol

[Seraphim]

The thing is we can not decide what is right for everyone because it is right or makes sense to us.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well of course, which is why I suggusted one of the things LS bring up to him is is he being washy because he doesn't feel like he is a part of this pregnacy and then finding ways to include him.

[Batya33]

No, I think they're saying that, while fathers do have equal parental rights, they do not have an equal right to participate in the delivery. That's a right nature has already bestowed upon women. And I think that should go without saying. I've never heard someone express this view before, OG.

 

Same here -very surprising to me. Many men - like many people -might think they can be helpful to the mother during the birthing process when in reality, for whatever reason, even the best-intentioned men and most loving fathers may stress out the woman while she is delivering the baby. To me the only relevant focus is on the woman's health/best interests. If she arbitrarily doesn't want him there- or out of some sort of spite or hostility then they should get help for the underlying problem but she gets full veto power in whether his presence will be helpful and healthful to her and to the baby. Also you might think someone would be great in the room for you but when push comes to shove -pun intended -it doesn't work that way and at that point the dad should make a graceful exit.

 

I do think a father has the right to bond with the baby ASAP and that the mother should encourage that in every way possibl (with rare exception of course!).

 

Once the discussion gets to "rights" I think there are larger problems in the relationship than whether the couple agrees on whether it would be a good idea to have the dad there in the delivery room. A healthy, stable couple would never "go there" other than in frustration/anger "I have the right to be there!".