Won't live with me until we're married???

[OptomisticGirl]

Nothing that goes on in a relationship happens in a vacuum. Its not about who is right or wrong but there are some unhealthy dynamics in this relationship.

 

For example, if you treat a man like he is optional in the equation then don't be surprised if he opts out. If you act as if you are the more important parent, don't be surprised when his parenting efforts or abilities fall short.

 

I would be furious if I was about to give birth to twins and my partner suddenly decided not to live with the family. But I'm order to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future it's necessary to understand the series of events that lead up to it.

 

Exactly. It's one thing to not want your kids around smoke - I don't smoke and wouldn't want my own kids around it one day - but there is also someone else involved in this equation - the other partner. As I said, you TELL a smoker they have to quit and they never will. Just like someone who drinks or does drugs, the only way they are going to stop is if THEY want to. If they feel pressured or like they are being 'motherd' then no, they aren't going to do what's best for their health. The thing is though, if he was a smoker before you got pregnant, it kind of comes down to you knew he did it before you got pregnant and if it's somethign you were very against, you could have walked away before you got pregnant. I have seen it happen so many times. A few good male friends feel 'mothered' because their SO knew they smoked before they had kids - never said a word about it - and then they got pregnant and suddenly EXPECTED them to quit.

[rocio]

Well, if it's putting the children's health at risk, that's entirely fair. I'm sure if I smoked my partner would expect me to give up smoking while pregnant. We do have the right to request that our partner not harm our children.

 

But if he wants to smoke when he goes out with the guys, that's his perogative. You can let him know the reasons you wish he would quit but it's not up to you to dictate what he does on his own time.

[Seraphim]

Well, if it's putting the children's health at risk, that's entirely fair. I'm sure if I smoked my partner would expect me to give up smoking while pregnant. We do have the right to request that our partner not harm our children.

 

But if he wants to smoke when he goes out with the guys, that's his perogative. You can let him know the reasons you wish he would quit but it's not up to you to dictate what he does on his own time.

 

Exactly, you put my child's health at risk, I am going to say something and expect something.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well I agree, but there is a big difference - in my short years on this earth - that I have seen between a partner asking and a partner expecting it to happen. But as Rocio said, what he does on his own times is his right. He doesn't sound like someone who would intentionally smoke around his kids - as in, in the same room with them - and if he has cut back then it's a huge step in the quitting direction.

[OptomisticGirl]

Exactly, you put my child's health at risk, I am going to say something and expect something.

 

What if this person was a smoker before you got pregnant together though? One could say you knew what they did and stayed with them so do you REALLY have the right to ask them to quit if you knew of this habit before hand?

[Seraphim]

The thing is people CAN give up smoking, they CAN. Some people do not want to. If he does not want to fine and dandy, HOWEVER a baby and or child has NO way to get away from that health risk if their parents do it and or do not speak up for them. Effectively it is telling a child or baby they have no right to their own health because I want to be addicted.

[rocio]

What if this person was a smoker before you got pregnant together though? One could say you knew what they did and stayed with them so do you REALLY have the right to ask them to quit if you knew of this habit before hand?

 

Most smokers don't intend on smoking for the rest of their life. I know many smokers and every single one of them intends to quit (or has already). So I think if they've been telling you they intend to quit, which most smokers do say (and most do quit eventually, by the way) then you have every right to expect them to quit.

[Fudgie]

The problem with smoking outside (as others have mentioned) is that you still bring inside that smell and ash near the baby. It's not healthy at all.

 

My father and his siblings all have horrific asthma and we're sure it's because his parents smoked like stoves. Really unfair to him, I think.

[Seraphim]

What if this person was a smoker before you got pregnant together though? One could say you knew what they did and stayed with them so do you REALLY have the right to ask them to quit if you knew of this habit before hand?

 

Yer darn right you do. My child comes before addiction.

[OptomisticGirl]

The thing is people CAN give up smoking, they CAN. Some people do not want to. If he does not want to fine and dandy, HOWEVER a baby and or child has NO way to get away from that health risk if their parents do it and or do not speak up for them. Effectively it is telling a child or baby they have no right to their own health because I want to be addicted.

 

Most smokers don't intend on smoking for the rest of their life. I know many smokers and every single one of them intends to quit (or has already). So I think if they've been telling you they intend to quit, which most smokers do say (and most do quit eventually, by the way) then you have every right to expect them to quit.

 

Of course they can quit. L use to smoke and put the packs down and never picked them up again. But some do have a harder time of it because they do depend on it so much - like my own mother and sister. The point is, if you knew about this before going into this life with this partner, and they have been telling you for years they will quit - even though eventually they will, be it death or medical or them finally realizing themselves it's killing them - then I just don't think anyone has the right to demand their partner do something if they knew they did it before. You don't want your kids around smoke ever - don't date someone who smokes. Period.

[OptomisticGirl]

Yer darn right you do. My child comes before addiction.

 

So then don't date someone who smokes who could be the father/mother of your child one day. It's silly that just because you have children with someone it means you can control what they do - even if their habit is unhealthy. Like I said, if you know about it before hand, don't have unprotected sex or marry them if it's something you don't want your kids around. If I demanded something of my partner like this, I very well would expect him to demand something of me in return that I give up.

[Seraphim]

Well I think you do. And that is the way life goes. People have different opinions. They did not EXPECT to have kids or EXPECT to live together so why should she say it before??? Now it is all a different game, and it is her duty to protect her children not someone's right to be addicted.

[Fudgie]

I do agree with you OG. It's unfair to try and change your partner in terms of habits that he has had BEFORE you got together.

 

It's stupid and unfair to have a child with him and then demand that he stops smoking. Is it healthier for the baby? Of course. But maybe you should have not had a child with someone who smokes.

 

We all have a choice. It's not like we become magically pregnant by whomever and then have to make do. You know what is healthy for babies and what you want in a partner. Don't settle and don't have unprotected sex with someone who doesn't fit it.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Nothing that goes on in a relationship happens in a vacuum. Its not about who is right or wrong but there are some unhealthy dynamics in this relationship.

 

For example, if you treat a man like he is optional in the equation then don't be surprised if he opts out. If you act as if you are the more important parent, don't be surprised when his parenting efforts or abilities fall short.

 

I would be furious if I was about to give birth to twins and my partner suddenly decided not to live with the family. But I'm order to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future it's necessary to understand the series of events that lead up to it.

 

I absolutely agree with this. There is so much here that is completely dysfunctional on both sides of the equation. Even right down to the smoking...you knew he smoked when you got pregnant and yet that wasn't an issue then. If someone is a smoker then why have children with them. No, he didn't want you to abort...but then again if you really didn't want the baby then you could have chosen that route which, from my understanding, was what you originally wanted. It is the overall lack of proper and effective communication skills on both sides of the equation which is leading to all of this trouble.

[Fudgie]

Well I think you do. And that is the way life goes. People have different opinions. They did not EXPECT to have kids or EXPECT to live together so why should she say it before??? Now it is all a different game, and it is her duty to protect her children not someone's right to be addicted.

 

Sadly, yes. She was careless with BC and now she has to pay the price.

 

He always has the option of not being around the children though and just paying child support. He can be addicted if he wants to but he can't expose the children to ANY Of that stuff...smoke, ash, etc. So maybe he just won't be around.

[OptomisticGirl]

I'm sorry but when you have sex, every time you expect to have a kid, even those who are BC pills. It's something you know happens when you have sex and it's a risk every person takes when they sex. So there never is 'oh, we didn't expect to have kids!' when you are having sex. You have sex, you run the risk of getting pregnant. And as with everything else, LS knew she wanted kids years ago. So again, if this was something she didn't want her kids around, she knew then. Just like I never would have dated someone who didn't want kids - because I want them - if you don't want smoking around your kids in your home don't date a smoker. Simple as that.

[Seraphim]

Well while I am sure she appreciates us all judging her we do not have to live her life now do we? SHE has to do decide what is good for her NOW. Discussions about WHAT SHOULD have happened according to OUR morals are pretty useless. SHE can decide what is best for her relationship and her family. If that is no smoking then that is her choice. If it is having her children's father around that is her choice.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well while I am sure she appreciates us all judging her we do not have to live her life now do we? SHE has to do decide what is good for her NOW. Discussions about WHAT SHOULD have happened according to OUR morals are pretty useless. SHE can decide what is best for her relationship and her family. If that is no smoking then that is her choice. If it is having her children's father around that is her choice.

 

Of course. She has the right to not want smoke around her children - just as he has the right to continue smoking when not around his kids. You start trying to change your partner to your mold, the relationship isn't going to last.

[penelope13]

I'm a bit surprised: he wants to marry you - and you interpret this as him not being mature and not wanting to 'step up to the plate'. And it's not even something out of the blue, since he mentioned this right away ever since you found out that you are pregnant.

 

It's a bit difficult to have a different opinion and stand up for it, if you are facing a person who is very head strong and is very convinced of the rightness of her own opinion, on top of not wanting to upset a pregnant woman. - I can somehow understand why he may have agreed to everything that you brought forward, but deep down it was against his own beliefs. Sometimes people need some time to figure out what is really important to them especially if someone is on their case all the time to see the other person's point of view, thus they can change their minds. Men should have the same right in this respect than woman.

 

If a woman would be posting that she doesn't want to play house until her partner marries her, most people would agree with her and encourage her to stand up for what she wants from a relationship.

 

As to your main concern about the house and your father: your father bought YOU a house to make YOUR life easier. Him buying a house for you has not much to do with who your partner is, nor if you are in a relationship. Apparently he had enough money to finance a house rather than an apartment, thus this is also independent of your relationship status nor with who you are in a relationship.

 

You should look at the situation with your father/house independent from your relationship status. You can't use the house for ever to define your relationship with your partner. If he moves in with you and it turns out that YOU are not anymore interested in being in a relationship with him, are you going to remain in a relationship simply because your father bought a house that is big enough to house a family of four? - No, you would end the relationship and eventually hope to find a new partner with whom to live together.

 

Thus don't use the house as an argument to convince him of your opinion.

 

As to the question if he wants to be involved in his children's lives: according to every of your posts there was never a doubt that he was excited about parenthood and that he wants to play an active role. Don't make him out to be the bad guy just because he has not fully succumbed to your wishes.

 

If you go into a discussion with automatically assuming negative connotations about him having a different opinion than your own, it is not the best breeding ground to find a mutual compromise. The way you sometimes state things it comes over that you have it all figured out, there is no other possible way, he just has to agree with you; it doesn't sound like you are going in with an open mind about different possibilities.

 

Even if you are right, in a relationship you have to give the other person the chance and the feeling that their opinions are as equal and justified as yours, that their opinions are taken as serious as yours. Since he is the one who more or less has to do things quite differently than he probably imagined, at least give him the time and the space to work through the emotions. I'm pretty sure that in the end he will do what is best for his kids (according to what you have said so far about him). It's just a lot to swallow for him as well. And he doesn't have the 'advantage' to experience the pregnancy as intense as you. Often for men the reality only really sinks in once the kids are born, while for you you had to experience it right from the get go of finding out that you are pregnant.

[Seraphim]

Of course. She has the right to not want smoke around her children - just as he has the right to continue smoking when not around his kids. You start trying to change your partner to your mold, the relationship isn't going to last.

 

There ARE some things people DO have to give up for their mate. That is the way it is too.

[rocio]

So if a woman drinks socially prior to getting pregnant, should she have a free pass to drink while pregnant? If she smokes marijuana prior to getting pregnant, should she have a free pass to smoke it while pregnant and/or breastfeeding? After all, her partner knew she did those things prior to getting pregnant. How unreasonable of him to ask her to quit now.

 

There are certain bad habits that you give up when they negatively affect your children.

 

If your partner drinks to the point of getting drunk prior to becoming a parent, you can't expect him to avoid being drunk around the children? That's interesting because I know for a fact that OG gets drunk on occasion. So her fiance is basically accepting that she can get trashed while having her children under her care? After all, he knew she occasionally drank to excess prior to having kids. If he didn't want her to get trashed while caring for the children, then he never should have married her.

 

Of course, OG, I know you would never do that. I'm just demonstrating how rediculous this sounds. It's no different for smoking. You DO have the right to expect that your parner adjust his/her behavior when the children are around and when it will harm the children, even if that behavior was present prior to children entering the equation.

 

To say, "well you shouldn't have had children with him if you knew he did this" is a naive, one-dimension and unrealistic way of viewing the world.

[OptomisticGirl]

There ARE some things people DO have to give up for their mate. That is the way it is too.

 

Here on ENA, we call that an unhealthy relationship. A partner should never have to give up something they want/do - even if it's a disgusting bad habit - just because their partner wants them to. This breeds resentment and in an already screwed up communication relationship, it's only going to make matters worse.

[Seraphim]

Here on ENA, we call that an unhealthy relationship. A partner should never have to give up something they want/do - even if it's a disgusting bad habit - just because their partner wants them to. This breeds resentment and in an already screwed up communication relationship, it's only going to make matters worse.

 

Well I am not all that concerned about most of what here on "ENA" has to say, so holding that over me is really of no consequence to me. I don't need to look to ENA to find an opinion for myself. I have my own.

[Seraphim]

I agree, completely.

[OptomisticGirl]

Does she have a RIGHT to? Yes. Is it healthy for the baby? No, of course not. My sister smoked while pregnant. I asked her did she know what she could be doing to the baby, she said yes, and I dropped it. I am a control freak to the T and even I know you can't control another person's behavior, one of the great lessosn I took away from my past relationship.

 

You realize my 'drinking on occasion' literally consists of one or two times a year, correct? If a person likes to drink socially before beign pregnant and has adaquate baby sitting arrangments then yes, they can still enjoy that, as long as it doesn't impend on their parenting abilites. People the world over smoke and are amazing parents.

 

And it's not a unrealistic way of viewing the world. What's unrealistic is expecting to change your parnter just because something in the relationship changes. We always breach on this site you can't change your partner, that they have to change themselves, that's it's useless to change them. Would you date someone who was an alcohol before marrying them if you were against drinkign? Would you date someone who smoked weed before marrying them if you were against it? No. Smoking is no different.