Won't live with me until we're married???

[rocio]

Does she have a RIGHT to? Yes. Is it healthy for the baby? No, of course not. My sister smoked while pregnant. I asked her did she know what she could be doing to the baby, she said yes, and I dropped it. I am a control freak to the T and even I know you can't control another person's behavior, one of the great lessosn I took away from my past relationship.

 

The point is that, if there were a man on ENA concerned that his partner was drinking or smoking marijuana while pregnant, I doubt a lot of people would be telling him, "sorry buddy, nothing you can do here. You should never try to change your partner."

 

I think that, once you become a parent, you will realise that there is nothing you wouldn't do to protect your children. The parents on this thread know what I'm talking about.

 

You realize my 'drinking on occasion' literally consists of one or two times a year, correct? If a person likes to drink socially before beign pregnant and has adaquate baby sitting arrangments then yes, they can still enjoy that, as long as it doesn't impend on their parenting abilites.

 

Exactly. And if a person likes to smoke prior to having children and has adequate babysitting arrangements then yes, they can still enjoy that, as long as the children don't end up breathing the toxins. We agree entirely.

[OptomisticGirl]

The point is that, if there were a man on ENA concerned that his partner was drinking or smoking marijuana while pregnant, I doubt a lot of people would be telling him, "sorry buddy, nothing you can do here. You should never try to change your partner."

 

I think that, once you become a parent, you will realise that there is nothing you wouldn't do to protect your children. I think the parents on this thread will agree.

 

 

 

Exactly. And if a person likes to smoke prior to having children and has adequate babysitting arrangements then yes, they can still enjoy that, as long as the children don't end up breathing the toxins. We agree entirely.

 

That was just the point I was trying to make. I was shocked to find out my own mom smoked while pregnant with all 3 of us. I have had to deal with smokers my whole life, which is probably why I'm more tolerant of them.

 

I don't have to be a parent to know that. I"m an aunt and while it isn't hte same, I'd give whatever I have to protect my niece and nephew. And I would give the same advice to a man askign this. He can't change his wife and what she does no matter how much HE wants to. All he can do is inform her of the facts. Again, if you don't want somethign around your kids, don't date someone who does it.

 

The point is a person can change their habits - if they want to. I want kids so 4 months before we try to concieve all drinking (the 2 times a year I do it) will stop. Does this mean L has to stop socially drinking with his buddies while I'm pregnant? Of course not! I would be a nag if I asked him to stop doing something simply because I couldn't do it anymore.

[Fudgie]

She can ask him to stop smoking but I doubt he will. She can't stop him from doing it on his off-time but she does have the right to make sure that none of the toxins come in contact with the baby. But no, she doesn't have the right to demand that he stops doing certain things on his free time that do NOT affect her or her children.

 

Of course, he always has the choice not to be around the children at all if he's going to smoke like a stove. He will have to pay child support that is.

 

OG, I agree with what you said before...there is always a risk of pregnancy when you choose to have sex. Of course, you can always decide what to do with the child after that happens. There's abortion and adoption. You don't have to keep the child if you don't want to and if you decide that your partner isn't going to be a good father to them.

[FreedomRing]

I read the whole thread, and believe this seems to be an accurate picture of what may be going on(from an outsider's perspective of course).

 

At any rate, Lost, do you have real desire at this point to even be in a relationship with kids father? You make many references to wanting him to be in the house mainly to help out with baby duties(and if this is your main concern right now, then I also agree, he doesn't have to live there to help take care of them). I didn't read any comments related to the fact that you want to live to together bc you are so in love, want to grow as a family together, etc. Could this be related to your overall hesitancy to consider marriage with him at this point?

 

I dunno - I just this overwhelming sense of "well I'm not about to be stuck with two kids 24/7(even though you'll have a nanny?) while he gets to have time away"....I sure hope that is not your sentiment. The reality is, as women, we have the(fortunate/unfortunate) primary responsibility to take care of children we choose to bring in this world, since we all know, men are not always guaranteed to be there full-time, after it's all said and done. If I were you, I would start wrapping my head around this reality more and more, and starting making plans and living your life as you would, if you were the primary caretaker. As you're beginning to see, agreements, pacts, whatever, between a couple who has been thrown into major life circumstances overnight, can and often change constantly on one or both sides.

 

Just curious.....how would you, and your bf feel about being "engaged" and living together? This way, you both would be getting what you want....for him..a sign of a bigger commitment, and for you, more time before you actually say "I do" and then you mutually come up with a timeline(1-1.5yrs).

[Seraphim]

Well whether we think she has a right or not,makes no difference whatsoever, it is not our life. I don't think she is going to be getting an abortion either since she is 23 weeks and has accepted that she wants her daughters and I am sure she loves them. None of us have to live her life, so the only opinion that matters is hers.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well whether we think she has a right or not,makes no difference whatsoever, it is not our life. I don't think she is going to be getting an abortion either since she is 23 weeks and has accepted that she wants her daughters and I am sure she loves them. None of us have to live her life, so the only opinion that matters is hers.

 

Actually I'm pretty sure the father of her children opinion matters just as much as her's. At least, in MY relationship it woudl.

[Seraphim]

Actually I'm pretty sure the father of her children opinion matters just as much as her's. At least, in MY relationship it woudl.

 

However we do not know his opinion though. She knows it, not us. I am sure she does care about his opinion, but everybody here is worried about the rights of people to be addicted to cigarettes not the rights of the little children and the rights of little children to be with their father and be healthy. If he wants to go off and smoke 75 ciggies with his buddies by all means. Just do not come home covered in smoke.

[rocio]

I was shocked to find out my own mom smoked while pregnant with all 3 of us.

 

The effects of cigarette smoke were not as well understood back then. At some point, women were encouraged to have a cigarette and a glass of whiskey while nursing to calm them. Today, however, nobody can claim to be unaware of the effects.

 

And I would give the same advice to a man askign this. He can't change his wife and what she does no matter how much HE wants to. All he can do is inform her of the facts.

 

This is where you and I are very different. If someone were carrying my baby, I would stop at nothing to prevent her from drinking, smoking or taking drugs. I would do everything within my legal power and I wouldn't care if it destroyed the relationship or if it meant we that our relationship wasn't ENA-approved. The other parent is the advocate for children who have no voice and no defense. Standing by and allowing them to be harmed is just not an option. You have a moral obligation to protect your children and that is infinitely more important than pie in the sky ideals.

 

Around here they recently legislated that it is illegal to smoke with children in the car. Generally, I am strongly opposed to the government dictating how we raise our children (just as, in general, I am strongly opposed to EVER trying to change or control your partner). But when there are innocent children involved who do not have the capacity to stand up for themselves, I think it's a justified evil.

 

She can ask him to stop smoking but I doubt he will. She can't stop him from doing it on his off-time but she does have the right to make sure that none of the toxins come in contact with the baby. But no, she doesn't have the right to demand that he stops doing certain things on his free time that do NOT affect her or her children.

 

This is exactly how I feel as well.

[Seraphim]

I totally agree. It is also illegal here to smoke with kids in your car.

[OptomisticGirl]

I remember my mom telling me about the whiskey thing too actually.

 

Well yes, I would want to try to prevent them for harming my unborn baby as well but what can you do other than locking them up? Yes the woman has the right to do these things while pregnant but it's not goof for the baby, no. But women getting pregnant who shouldn't be getting pregnant is another pet peeve of mine. I agree with you that one should do everything to protect their unborn baby - even unexpected pregnancies - but at the end of the day, what advice could you give a father other than getting her locked up til the baby is born? I don't even know if that could happen honestly.

 

L is completely against me having caffeine while pregnant, he views it the same as drinking while pregnant because it has shown to cause miscarriages. I ahte giving up coffee but I too am afraid of miscarriages, or anything that could lead to them. Jokingly I said though if I give up my cofffee he has to give up his tea. Whp[kether that goes through or not we will see when we get pregnant.

 

ETA: The fact is, we as women have an obligation to protect our kids long before our partners do in the sense we ahve to be healthy while pregnant with them. That doesn't mean our partners have to. Obviously no partner wnats to smoke around their pregnant SO but when not around them - the partner has no right to demand that because they aren't around the pregnant SO and casuing them any harm. Both of my parents smoked and I never once wanted to pick up a cig. My brother and sister smoke, whether that was because they saw my parents doing or not IDK but for me, seeing them do it, I never wanted to do it myself.

[Seraphim]

Well, see then he knows you drank coffee before so why should he ask you to give it up? You also can not drink diet drinks either. But why should he ask you to give it up? If he wanted someone who did not drink caffeine he should not have gone out with someone who does right?

 

You will find there is a LOT of things you won't like living together for a long period of time. Things that will annoy and frustrate you to no end. It helps though if you do not see the world in shades of black and white.

[rocio]

Well, see then he knows you drank coffee before so why should he ask you to give it up? You also can not drink diet drinks either. But why should he ask you to give it up? If he wanted someone who did not drink caffeine he should not have gone out with someone who does right?

 

You will find there is a LOT of things you won't like living together for a long period of time. Things that will annoy and frustrate you to no end. It helps though if you do not see the world in shades of black and white.

 

Thank you. The hypocrisy on this thread is overwhelming.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well, see then he knows you drank coffee before so why should he ask you to give it up? You also can not drink diet drinks either. But why should he ask you to give it up? If he wanted someone who did not drink caffeine he should not have gone out with someone who does right?

 

You will find there is a LOT of things you won't like living together for a long period of time. Things that will annoy and frustrate you to no end. It helps though if you do not see the world in shades of black and white.

 

Becuase I'M the one carrying the baby, I'm the one with the ultiamte responsibility of protecting that bundle of joy until it's born. Him drinking caffeine doesn't impead on the baby's health - if I do it can. He's also not asking me to stop drinking coffee for life - just as long as I'm pregnant. If he were asking me to stop drinking it for life Hell yes it wouldn't work out. I love my coffee but while pregnany I'm willing to give it up just as you will find many father to be's that smoke are willing to not smoke around their pregnant SO's or their children, that doesn't mean they have to give it up entirely.

 

I have previously lived with someone so yes, I am aware people can annoy you when you live together. The world isn't in black and white but neither is it an all about 'me' world either.

 

A pregnant woman can ask her partner to not smoke around her or her kids but no, she does not have the right to ask him to stop smoking entirely.

[Seraphim]

OOH so now ideals have limitations? It only matters if it is short term or long term depending? That is not an ideal, that then becomes an opinion based on situation.

[rocio]

Well yes, I would want to try to prevent them for harming my unborn baby as well but what can you do other than locking them up?

 

I'm glad you asked. Since we're discussing the situation of LS not wishing for her partner to be getting trashed and smoking around their children, I would say that one way she can protect her children is to insist that he not engage in those activities while in the home with the children. Which is exactly what she has done. This debate started when you asked, "why should he have to give up smoking and drinking?"

 

Another thing that bothers me is that this friend has a drinking problem, and my bf likes to drink too. I already told him that if we live together he would have to cut back drinking, and no smoking, etc. It seems like since he'll be able to do things freely at his friends--maybe that is why he wants to live there? I just thought about that. He has cut back on his cigarette smoking and was suppose to cut back completely by the time the babies were here, but he is having a hard time completely quitting. The last time he came down here, after staying with his friend for a few days, he told me a crazy story about them getting so drunk that his friend was literally driving on the sidewalk. They barhopped three days straight. I realize they are young guys, and before I was pregnant I used to get sloppy drunk too but now that babies are on the way I just feel like it's time for things to change. Anyway a part of me thinks this is a reason why, because he knows I will not tolerate that sort of behavior, and that he will have to quit smoking. I think am thinking he doesn't want to grow up, and maybe that changed his mind.

 

No, she can't lock him up in jail or tie him up in the basement to prevent him from engaging in this harmful behavior around the children. But she can request that he cease those activities while in the home. That's exactly what she has done and I think it would the right course of action.

[OptomisticGirl]

OOH so now ideals have limitations?

 

I'm not sure what you have been reading Victoria but I have been saying the same thing through this entire thread. You can not control your partner. You can ASK them to quit - long term or short term - but they do not have to do it. That being said, most people do limit their smoking to around their partner and kids. You seem to think that a partner has to quit smoking forever to become a functing parent. They do not.

[OptomisticGirl]

I'm glad you asked. Since we're discussing the situation of LS not wishing for her partner to be getting trashed and smoking around their children, I would say that one way she can protect her children is to insist that he not engage in those activities while in the home with the children. Which is exactly what she has done. This debate started when you asked, "why should he have to give up smoking and drinking?"

 

 

 

No, she can't lock him up in jail or tie him up in the basement to prevent him from engaging in this harmful behavior around the children. But she can request that he cease those activities while in the home. That's exactly what she has done and I think it would the right course of action.

 

Well yes, but everyone in favor of him quitting has it out that he as to quit FOREVER, and to never do these things. I"m sorry but to me that is being controlling and wanting to control a relationship and your partner. Naturally he shouldn't be doing these things around the kids - ever - but to say he has to stop all this forever again, to me, is being controlling.

[Seraphim]

Well you said she had no right to ask him, because that was "forcing" him to change and it is not ENA approved and dysfunctional and she knew all along. SO I do not know which it is, because now you said that your finace will ask you not to do something, so he should have no right to ask you because that is changing your partner whether it is short term long term or any term. Ideals are something held accross the board not something that changes with the situation or length of time or the person.

 

I never said that people who smoke are not functioning parents but they are not protecting their child's right to be healthy either.

[OptomisticGirl]

It's also about the right to protect your child as you put it. As I have said and continue to say: LS, L, and everyone else has the right to ASK their partner to not do something that could harm their children, smoking, drinking caffeine, drinking alcohol. That is their right as a parent. They do not, however, have the right to demand or expect it of their partner or demand that they cut it off forever. Yes, if L were to ask me to ask me to stop drinking caffeine the rest of my life it would fall under the you know they did it before argument. But for the health of his unborn child yes, he has that right to ask. Just as LS does. I have the right to dmcontonue drinking caffeine while pregnant but won't just as LS's fiance has the right to not smoke around her or the kids but still retains that right to smoke. As you said it isn't black and white. Both people have rights that have to be respected.

[lostnscared]

Everyone thank you for your advice.

Yes maybe I shouldn't have had sex with a smoker knowing that there was a possibility I could get pregnant. But me and him had discussed for YEARS prior to this pregnancy(I have been with him for 6 years) that once we did start trying for kids that he would QUIT smoking. This was not an "out of the air" type of thing. It was a mutual decision that we both felt was right. I never felt that I needed to worry about him continuing to smoke if I ever got pregnant, because he too had felt that smoking was not a good habit to have with kids around. Now once I did get pregnant he ALSO said that while I was down here in TN he would quit smoking. And he has CUT back, but has also expressed to me that when he gets stressed it's hard to stop. If I had known this would be the case, then I would have made different decisions obviously. But it can't be undone. And when I had my own apartment, my boyfriend was NEVER allowed to smoke inside, he had to go outside to smoke. Nothing would change if he moved in--he would also have to go outside to smoke. The only difference is that he only stayed at my apartment a few nights a week, and would be living with me 24-7 if he were to move in. But yes I have asked him to quit, I have not nagged him about it--I stopped doing that because it wasn't working. I did make it clear that whether he quits completely or not, he will not be smoking inside the home. I'm not budging on that.

CAD,

I find it amusing that you believe that I "push, push, push" and that is the dynamics of our relationship based solely of ONE other thread that I've created in the 6 months that discusses some of the issues me and him were having. He cannot be forced to do anything he does not want to do. He is not an incompetent, weak man. And he certainly would never do something that he did not want to do--that is who he is. Me "talking" with him is not forcing him or making him do anything. I did not put a gun to his head and make him decide to come down here. But in a relationship you "talk" and part of talking is speaking about how you feel. And that is all I've done. If he has agreed to do things he does not want to do, then that isn't a result of MY actions, but more of his. Obviously there are communication issues, but I disagree with you in terms of me forcing him or "pushing" him to do anything. I'm done with that argument--it's just moot right now(situation's already been done and nothing I would done differently in the beginning would have prevented this because I did nothing wrong by asking him to move down here and move in with me). I'm not a passive person. And neither is he. He could have said "no". Maybe I should have continued to ask him "are you sure you want to" over and over again and nagged him about it until he was honest and told me "no"? Would that have been better CAD? LOL.

 

And I do love my boyfriend obviously. Heck I wouldn't have been with him for this long if I didn't. Why did I have to say that on this thread--I'm not sure. Whether I love him or not, is it really relevant to the issue about him bailing out at the last minute? I was honest about why he were living with me--yes to help out with the kids. Because I could love him and live separately until we were married if it was only about "love". This is about sharing the responsibilities and raising the children together which was the initial plan that he CAME up with.

I really don't think I am controlling him.

[lostnscared]

I wouldn't mind if he slept in a different room--I just don't know how he would feel about it. I really think it's a b.s. excuse and when I see him this weekend, I'll be able to get to the bottom of it.

[lostnscared]

When I say "step up to the plate" I mean step up in terms of sticking by the promises he made. If kept flip-flopping all the time, I'm sure he also would get concerned. I am 6 months pregnant, it is just not a good time to be all of the sudden changing his mind about things. He needed to have voiced how he felt at the getgo and this would have been avoided? I understand that he has beliefs, but they seem very contradicting. On one hand he believes that a couple should not live together unless they are married. But he had no issue with premarital sex. And then agreed TWO weeks ago to let me have sex with girls WHILE we are married. Now does this sound like someone who is so ingrained in their beliefs? I just feel as if it something more to it. But like I said, I respect his feelings, just wish he would have let me know beforehand.

[lostnscared]

I don't want to wrap my mind around the reality--even if it is true. LOL. I don't see why it is unreasonable to expect him to help? And I think something is wrong with a society where women have to wrap their minds around a reality where they the primary responsibility to take care of the children that the men helped create. Something is wrong with that reality and I don't think I will wrap my mind around it because I don't agree with it. He is better with kids than I am(changing diapers, putting them to sleep, feeding them, playing with them, disciplining) and has always been, he promised me that he would help and I want him to stick by that.

[lostnscared]

Well whether we think she has a right or not,makes no difference whatsoever, it is not our life. I don't think she is going to be getting an abortion either since she is 23 weeks and has accepted that she wants her daughters and I am sure she loves them. None of us have to live her life, so the only opinion that matters is hers.

 

I do love my babies and I won't be having an abortion even if I could.

I certainly wouldn't abort them just because their dad smokes!!!!! That's really a bizarre reason(IMO).

[OptomisticGirl]

I dont think you are out l8ne asking him not to smoke in the house with the kids. At all