Won't live with me until we're married???

[Seraphim]

I do love my babies and I won't be having an abortion even if I could.

I certainly wouldn't abort them just because their dad smokes!!!!! That's really a bizarre reason(IMO).

 

Certainly is. Also too people do not control who they fall in love with. They can have all kinds of ideals they want, but it is sometimes funny who you fall in love with. Sometimes too life throws you a curve ball but it only matters how you respond to it. If you can make decisions together that is awesome. Sometimes though everyone judges everyone else's relationship on what theirs is or how they want it to be, or what they see as optimal, not seeing that the relationship is not theirs to make a judgement call on.

 

A lot of times people still like to pick on unwed mothers and tell them what they "should" have done.

[lostnscared]

Nothing that goes on in a relationship happens in a vacuum. Its not about who is right or wrong but there are some unhealthy dynamics in this relationship.

 

For example, if you treat a man like he is optional in the equation then don't be surprised if he opts out. If you act as if you are the more important parent, don't be surprised when his parenting efforts or abilities fall short.

 

I would be furious if I was about to give birth to twins and my partner suddenly decided not to live with the family. But I'm order to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future it's necessary to understand the series of events that lead up to it.

 

This is true. He had told me a month ago that he feels like from the beginning I have left him out of everything. He said I chose to do the homebirth without him, that I keep making decisions without him, and that he feels like I'm just thinking about myself. Maybe this is revenge? IDK. I have acted like I am more important in some ways(I admit) but that is because I am carrying the babies and he isn't. I know that's not the best mindset, but I can't seem to help it.

 

I don't know what I could have done differently, besides include him more, but if I would have, this pregnancy would have been miserable. Because he was driving me cuckoo in the beginning of the pregnancy.

[lostnscared]

Certainly is. Also too people do not control who they fall in love with. They can have all kinds of ideals they want, but it is sometimes funny who you fall in love with. Sometimes too life throws you a curve ball but it only matters how you respond to it. If you can make decisions together that is awesome. Sometimes though everyone judges everyone else's relationship on what theirs is or how they want it to be, or what they see as optimal, not seeing that the relationship is not theirs to make a judgement call on.

 

A lot of times people still like to pick on unwed mothers and tell them what they "should" have done.

 

Thank you! That is how I feel. I know a lot of mistakes were made, but at this point harping on them will not "undue" what is happening now.

 

I texted him last night and apologized for being mean to him about changing his mind and said that I realized he was making a large sacrifice by moving up here and if he wanted to live with his friend he could, but I also told him that I need to know that he will be coming over everyday to help.

I met him when I was 17, so at that point his smoking was not a dealbreaker--I mean I never even thought that the relationship would go this far!!! lol. I didn't really think about smoking and all that at that time.

[Seraphim]

^^ Exactly, you are not making lifetime plans at 17. You are more likely too at 23 though. So he was already smoking then. So what does one say? ummm dude I know these kids are yours but hit the road cause you smoke?? I know I met you when I was 17 and had no thoughts of life time relationships? Like I said we do not dictate who we fall in love with, and we can only deal with the situations we have TODAY. Rehashing your choice of 6 years ago at 17 is pointless.

[FreedomRing]

I don't want to wrap my mind around the reality--even if it is true. LOL. I don't see why it is unreasonable to expect him to help? And I think something is wrong with a society where women have to wrap their minds around a reality where they the primary responsibility to take care of the children that the men helped create. Something is wrong with that reality and I don't think I will wrap my mind around it because I don't agree with it. He is better with kids than I am(changing diapers, putting them to sleep, feeding them, playing with them, disciplining) and has always been, he promised me that he would help and I want him to stick by that.

 

 

Of course it's not unreasonable to expect him to help raise the children, since he did help create them. I also agree that it is a really sad truth about society where women sometimes have to accept full responsibility of child raising, when it took two people to make, however...it's a truth nonetheless, that (if I were you) I would start preparing for, just in case. In your words, your bf has been "flip flopping" over various issues related to your relationship and other agreements, and it is this lack of dependency and inconsistency which is causing you much strife, no? I would be anxious as well....not just with the living together, but that kind of inconsistent behavior would have me viewing my partner with much different eyes, and the overall stability of being a family long-term.

 

He may change after the birth and become more consistent and reliable, but in the event he does not change, that kind of unreliable behavior is not good modeling for children to see. I'd hope you, as the mom, would be able to make a mature decision for what would be best for your children, proving to be the stable and reliable parent, even if that meant raising on your own(although, not exactly, since you have been blessed with a very supportive family!).

 

How do you feel about proposing the engagement option, as a compromise to him?

[rocio]

I don't know what I could have done differently, besides include him more, but if I would have, this pregnancy would have been miserable. Because he was driving me cuckoo in the beginning of the pregnancy.

 

...for you. This pregnancy would have been "miserable" for you. You're still thinking 100% in terms of your own interests.

 

Honestly, I also got the impression that you were excluding him from the decision making process and that you believe that because you're the mother, it should be all about you.

 

-It was more important to be close to your mother than close to him.

-You decided that he should move to TN.

-He was in such strong disagreement with your views on childbirth that he almost ended the relationship over it.

-You have decided to accept your father's purchase of a house for you. Your boyfriend is free to join you if he so chooses.

-You have decided to accept your mother's offer of a full time nanny.

-You have even stipulated that a marriage to him would include you having the freedom to have extramarital sex. Now, whatever the two of you decide is your own business. But this is pretty extreme.

 

I don't think most men would have put up with a fraction of that. I'm not trying to hurt you by saying this. I'm on your side. But I think you need to be more aware of the reactions that every one of your actions is going to cause.

 

You might be carrying the children. But you are two people - two human beings - two different lives. No person should have to abandon their identity for another. He is just as important as you, baby bump or not.

[Batya33]

LS thanks for considering my suggestion about the separate rooms and I will add this suggestion -you said your bf is religious- you mentioned something about his dad (?) being a deacon? Any chance the two of you could see a religious counselor together- um, an openminded one who would understand that this bed is partly made, there were certain promises made, how to deal with the flip flopping, your differences, etc. Rather than a secular counselor because at this point your bf might not be open to that.

[OptomisticGirl]

LS, Rocio makes a good point. On the one hand you seem to want to do this all on your own - not have him in the room during a large portion of the labor - but on the other want his help when you want it. It could be another reason he doesn't want to move in.

[lostnscared]

I would def. get engaged and am okay with that if he proposed that option.

It is causing me to question his stability. It's just bizarre the way things are going. I mean like I said, he has already been a bit wishy-washy in the relationship, prior to this. But I never thought he would be like this during the pregnancy.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Yes, I totally agree with this post. The whole thing about extra-marital sex also was a real shock when I read this. I wonder who is driving whom crazy...because I suspect from his point of view, his wishy washy waffling has a lot to do with feeling like he has very little input. You talk about him agreeing to you having sex with women while married...did he REALLY agree to that with his heart and soul or is it that he is trying every which way to hang on to this relationship and keep you happy so he is caving in to your demands. I have met people who call the shots in their relationship and they always tend to say things like "my husband (or wife) agrees with me on this matter" or, "he/she came around to my way of thinking". Usually, the husband (or wife) becomes co-dependent so that they lose their sense of self and become a "yes dear, whatever you say dear" kind of person as time goes on...and the one who is making all the decisions then sees it as their partner has the same mindset as them.

[lostnscared]

I know a bit selfish and spoiled in ways(I am used to getting what I want) but he really was driving me crazy and that is why I left to stay with my mom. I'm thinking it was hormonal, as I hated him in the beginning of the pregnancy(didn't even want him touching me) but by the second trimester I felt back to normal. It wasn't that I decided that it was more important that I be close to my mom than him, but in the beginning I was having awful morning sickness, and I was very depressed I thought about suicide all the time, and literally stayed in the bed until 8PM everyday in the dark. It wasn't healthy and I knew that I needed help. He didn't know what to do, and was stressed with work, so I went to stay with my mom. But you are right about my decision to move to TN, and the childbirth, as well as me accepting my parents help. I didn't think about it like that.

But just want to make it clear that I did not stipulate me having sex with girls. He did. HE is the one who brought it up and asked me, NOT me. LOL. He is so determined that I have sex with girls, that he has even stated that he will choose them. It is extreme, and I found it odd that he would ask me to do it when I will be a mother soon. I agreed to it, but the only reason brought that up is because it's just an example of him being contradicting. On one had telling me that he was raised and taught in the church to be married before living with each other, and yet he saw nothing wrong with premarital sex, and/or requesting that I have sex with girls while we are married and raising babies. It's just weird.

 

Your right... I feel bad. There are times when I know that I am being wrong, but I can't help but want things my way when it comes to the pregnancy and birth.

[lostnscared]

He ASKED me to have sex with girls. Reread that post that I wrote. It was him that WANTED it, NOT me. I don't call the shots in the relationship LOL. I really don't. I do get my way a lot of the time, but many people who know our relationship have always felt that he was the more dominant forceful one and that I was submissive. So I don't think I do. Again just want to reitarate that I did NOT say I wanted extramarital sex, that was HIM. And the only reason I brought it up was to point out that he was contradicting himself. I am fairly liberal about marriage and feel to "each their own", but he pretends like he was conservative about it and obviously if he is asking me to have sex with girls while he watches then he is NOT conservative that was my point.

[OptomisticGirl]

It's eqsy to forget about the dads needs when dealing with your own. But look at it trom his eyes. You want to do all the laboring by yourself and then hand him the babies and go I need you 24/7 when he really hasn5 felt needed the last 9 months.

[lostnscared]

LS thanks for considering my suggestion about the separate rooms and I will add this suggestion -you said your bf is religious- you mentioned something about his dad (?) being a deacon? Any chance the two of you could see a religious counselor together- um, an openminded one who would understand that this bed is partly made, there were certain promises made, how to deal with the flip flopping, your differences, etc. Rather than a secular counselor because at this point your bf might not be open to that.

 

His dad is a deacon, and his grandfather(before he died) was a pastor, his family has their own church, etc. Like I said, I do believe that all of this(him wanting to be married) is really a way to please his side of the family. I would be open to seeing a counselor but at the same time don't really believe in it, because counseling never worked for me, or him. I do think we have issues we need to work out though. But that is even more of a reason as to why marriage needed to be put on a backburner.

[rocio]

I'm thinking it was hormonal, as I hated him in the beginning of the pregnancy(didn't even want him touching me) but by the second trimester I felt back to normal.

 

This is good news. My husband has been trying me so crazy, I stayed out all yesterday evening and intend to do the same this evening!

 

but I can't help but want things my way when it comes to the pregnancy and birth.

 

Compromise is always possible. You might be surprised at what he can contribute if you have faith in him.

[lostnscared]

It's eqsy to forget about the dads needs when dealing with your own. But look at it trom his eyes. You want to do all the laboring by yourself and then hand him the babies and go I need you 24/7 when he really hasn5 felt needed the last 9 months.

 

True. But he has never been helpful before when I have been in trying situations(in terms of support), as I said on another thread, it just isn't him. If he was very supportive and comforting then I would want him by me while I'm laboring. Every friend I had, who had a bf or hubbie that was not very comforting felt very irritated during labor, that is the only reason I said that.

[OptomisticGirl]

His dad is a deacon, and his grandfather(before he died) was a pastor, his family has their own church, etc. Like I said, I do believe that all of this(him wanting to be married) is really a way to please his side of the family. I would be open to seeing a counselor but at the same time don't really believe in it, because counseling never worked for me, or him. I do think we have issues we need to work out though. But that is even more of a reason as to why marriage needed to be put on a backburner.

 

or reason enough to hold off living together to sort the problems out?

[lostnscared]

This is good news. My husband has been trying me so crazy, I stayed out all yesterday evening and intend to do the same this evening!

 

 

 

Compromise is always possible. You might be surprised at what he can contribute if you have faith in him.

 

Yes he started driving me crazy. And I felt so bad I would cry, because before then I used to love being around him, but then once I got pregnant all of the sudden I would be happy when he was away, and would not even want him to touch me. I thought it was normal because I read other stories of women going through the same thing. I ended up having to leave, because unfortunately it did get worse I began to hate him and hate myself and I wasn't getting the support I needed from him due to his work hours and job.

 

I see him this weekend so hopefully we can hash things out. I am letting him name the babies--that's a start lol.

[lostnscared]

or reason enough to hold off living together to sort the problems out?

 

Yes probably that too. I think I'm just starting to feel bad, because I'm going to be lonely by myself and in an empty house, I wanted a companion or something.

[OptomisticGirl]

True. But he has never been helpful before when I have been in trying situations(in terms of support), as I said on another thread, it just isn't him. If he was very supportive and comforting then I would want him by me while I'm laboring. Every friend I had, who had a bf or hubbie that was not very comforting felt very irritated during labor, that is the only reason I said that.

 

But you are basing how he may act on how others acted. He may not have been supportive in other areas but watching someone give birth to your children can really change someone, even if all he does is sit in the room.

[FreedomRing]

Lost,

 

If you're going to see him this weekend to talk, bring up the engagement idea, and see his what he has to say. Lay out your pros and cons for waiting. Suggest that you get engage, come up with a timeline for a final marriage date/decision. Although counseling may not have worked for you or him in the past, now seems like a great time to give it another go. The communication MUST improve if there is any hope for you too. The reality is, if you two were to live together this summer it would most likely not be pretty. As I'm sure you know, babies only add more problems to a realtionship that is already rocky. Don't set yourself, him or the babies up for htat. You both owe it to the babies to give it one solid attempt, with the whole works, counseling, and probably not residing under the same roof, but as someone else suggested...him coming over several times during hte week and weekends to help with the babies.

[rocio]

I see him this weekend so hopefully we can hash things out. I am letting him name the babies--that's a start lol.

 

Great idea! My husband is the baby namer too.

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes probably that too. I think I'm just starting to feel bad, because I'm going to be lonely by myself and in an empty house, I wanted a companion or something.

 

I'm sure the two babies will keep you company, lol

[lostnscared]

I'm sure the two babies will keep you company, lol

 

I want like adult companion. I've been a little lonely lately because all my friends are in Chicago--which is the reason I'm coming up there this weekend. It just feels isolating to know I'll be by myself, while he'll be partying it up with this friend of his. I know it's not right to feel this way, but I feel like it isn't fair.

[lostnscared]

Well we are def. going to talk about a lot, because I just want to see where his head is at... I know he is hurt by me not wanting to get married, and is feeling left out and embarrassed because he feels i am calling the shots. Def. a lot of work needs to be done in the next 3 months. I don't know if I've been in denial or what, but I just thought things were a lot better than what they were!