Won't live with me until we're married???

[OptomisticGirl]

Have you made any friends were you are now?

[FreedomRing]

Well, there you have it. At least you're admitting your feelings that you feel like he will just be partying if he doesn't live with you. but you've already tried and convicted him of doing that, when he hasnt even moved down there yet. Who knows, having him in your presence, might irritate you all over again. The separation might be good, at least initially. He can always move in later down the line..few months, or so...

[lostnscared]

Have you made any friends were you are now?

 

No I am in a support group, but have no one I hang out with personally.

[lostnscared]

Well, there you have it. At least you're admitting your feelings that you feel like he will just be partying if he doesn't live with you. but you've already tried and convicted him of doing that, when he hasnt even moved down there yet. Who knows, having him in your presence, might irritate you all over again. The separation might be good, at least initially. He can always move in later down the line..few months, or so...

 

I know I am jumping to conclusions, and he has told me he won't be partying, but I guess time will tell. I've never lived with him before so there is a good chance that he may have irritated me--I guess I just wanted his company and thought it would be cute for all four of us to be together. It did hurt a little bit that he doesnt feel the same.

[lostnscared]

But you are basing how he may act on how others acted. He may not have been supportive in other areas but watching someone give birth to your children can really change someone, even if all he does is sit in the room.

 

Well in the beginning of the pregnancy I told him I was terrified of the labor pain. And all he said was "I don't know what to tell you." How was that helpful?

 

Thankfully my opinions about labor changed, but even now he completely ignores me about certain stuff, for instance I have told him that my labor will be painless and that I want to deliver at home. And all he has said is, "Yeah right, you'll be getting an epidural" That is all he says whenever I talk to him about it. I mean he can keep that opinion to himself. It' just stuff like that, that irks me.

[OptomisticGirl]

I think that comes from more though him having trouble understanding your philosohpy than him not wanting to be supportive.

[lostnscared]

I think that comes from more though him having trouble understanding your philosohpy than him not wanting to be supportive.

 

I understand that. He has a belief that life is hard, and that labor is painful--because every woman he knows had a painful labor. Whereas obviously I believe something different. But whereas I allow him to have his beliefs, he is very rude to me about mine. For instance telling me "yeah right, you'll be getting the epidural" is rude whether he believes it or not--why not keep it to himself? Why would he discourage me even if he thinks I will. Or telling me I have a dangerous mindset, just because he does not agree. Now last week he had the flu. And rather than telling him that I thought he had the flu because he is sick of his job, hates his job, and is stressed out and therefore had conflicting negative thoughts that created the "flu" I just told him to drink some tea, get OJ, and get some rest. I kept my opinions to myself. Or yesterday he told me he had such bad chest pain the other day that he almost called 911 because he's had since he was a kid, but it's getting worse--again rather than just tell him that I believe it is his thoughts--i.e. he is stressed out, and feeling bad--that created the "pain" in his chest, I just said "aww I hope your okay." I mean I can keep my opinions to myself, and not impose on him, but he can't seem to do that with me. It's stuff like that, that is why I wanted to labor on my own.

[OptomisticGirl]

Perhaps discuss him being there but not saying anything? I think he will find it hard not onl6 to bond with the babies but feel like he is needed if he is excluded during that pivotal moment.

[lavenderdove]

>>He is so determined that I have sex with girls, that he has even stated that he will choose them.

 

OK, let's start with that first... plenty of men have all kinds of fantasies about watching girl on girl sex, and lots of fantasies inspired by porn too, but that doesn't mean you need to be his sex puppet and act like a porn star having sex with girls he chooses just because he wants to watch it and choose women, especially if you're married and trying to build a marriage and not introduce all the risk from bringing other women into the bedroom with you... First he will be asking to watch you, then he'll be asking to start having sex with them too. He is being unrealistic and selfish there... If you don't want to do this, make it loud and clear right now before you go any farther with him.

 

Next, unplanned pregnancies put enormous stress on people. It is a huge amount of responsibility and a huge financial resopnsibilty and changes your life instantly. If he likes to party, drink to supreme drunkennes on 3 day binges with his buddies, smoke up a storm, watch you in girl on girl sex and participate in threesomes, etc., the idea of unexpected TWINS arriving in a few months and wrecking his fun little party world is probably scaring him out of his gourd.

 

He may be trying to stay at his friend's house so that he can hang onto that wild lifestyle a bit longer and ease into parenthood at his own pace. Unfortunately you don't have that luxury since you're the mother.

 

I would just talk to him and tell him that rationally, this unplanned pregnancy is such an unexpected and huge change that throwing getting married into the mix before you've adjusted to being parents is a bit too much, BUT he needs to step up and do his half of the parenting in the house with you until you feel more comfortable about adding marriage to the mix. It was indeed really wrong of him to agree to go into paying for/living in a house with you, then stick your father with picking up more of the tab for that big house that he wouldn't have bought otherwise. He had a right to opt out if he didn't like the idea, but not AFTER this house had been purchased.

 

My fear for you at this point is that if he is not yet willing to give up smoking, drunken partying, wild sex in threesomes etc., then most likely he really isn't ready to get married either (or have kids for that matter). Marriage in itself won't fix that, and in fact might make him feel more trapped and behave more badly. Some people press for marriage because they want to lock you down and bind you to them, so that they can go about going back to really bad habits. They know it is harder to dump a husband than it is a BF, and they have more financial rights and child custody rights as husbands than they do if you don't live with them.

 

So i'd just try to convince him that you DO want to get married, just not rush it, and make sure that you focus on the problem at hand, which is the imminent birth of twins and their needs rather than worrying about getting married right now. He also may be more willing to move in when you do have the babies and if he falls in love with them and wants to be around them. Some fathers do, and some bolt when they see the huge responsibility involved, and you don't really know how he'll behave. So focus first on just worrying about the babies than worrying about him moving in or not. I think once he's been in TN for a while, you'll have a better idea of whether it will work out or not, so don't make any final decisions until he's been there a bit.

 

And your father may not like it, but he loves you enough to buy you that house, so if you tell him that you both decided it is best for him to not move in until he quits smoking and he's still working on that, that will stall for a bit and avoid a confrontation with your own father.

[lostnscared]

Me having sex with girls is really moot actually--I only brought it up to point out that he really isn't all as conservative as people were trying to make it seem. For the record the only reason he wants me to, is because it was something I did before I started being in a relationship with him, and he feels like I'm denying myself that side of me when it is clear that I want to be with girls(those were his words). I agreed to it, because as bad as sounds I didn't mind doing that. But we both have agreed that he would not participate all, and that it wouldn't be threesome. He is fine with that. I don't even think it will realistically happen--at least not soon, but if it does it was under conditions(i.e. it would only be me doing it, not a threesome, and he can only watch, etc). Obviously is a fantasy but he's done it with other women before he was with me, so it wasn't that big of deal, he just wanted me to experience it again.

I agree with you that he is somewhat of a partyboy and I am wondering if that is one of the reasons he is trying to live with this friend. This friend is also a pot-smoker, which is another concern of mine. It's just not a good situation, because I know my bf will be drinking and smoking and whatnot over there, and yes I did want him to stop all that. The part that does anger me, is that yes it's been very difficult for me not being able to club and drink because that used to be my lifestyle, and I have cravings every now and then, but obviously can't do them, and won't be able too for a long time. Whereas for him, he gets to continue doing what he wants. I've accepted that though--I just don't like the idea that he is trying to act all religious now when clearly from his actions and lifestyle that really is not the case.

I do think he wants marriage to bind me to him--because I know he wants more babies, also thinking that it's because of his parents and family who are pressuring him to do the "right thing".

I do believe that once the baby is here he will be more willing to move in--actually I think once he sees me this weekend he will want to move in. He hasn't seen me in a while, and usually when we see each other he becomes a different person and is usually very willing to do things to make things right. I already told him in a text last night that he could live with his friend though, so at this point I'm just going to stick by that.

I've decided that since my dad is another state anyway, I just won't tell him that my bf isn't living with me. It just isn't my dad's business anymore anyway. As for my mom, well she loves my bf, so I'll just tell her some excuse and she'll get over it.

[lostnscared]

Perhaps discuss him being there but not saying anything? I think he will find it hard not onl6 to bond with the babies but feel like he is needed if he is excluded during that pivotal moment.

 

Well the issue is that I plan to do some more "spiritual" sort of stuff during the labor, and I don't want his input about how weird it is, or anything since he doesn't have the same philosophy as I do. I just can't picture him watching and not smirking or making a rude or smart comment about it, or telling me to just go to the hospital and get an epidural. But I will talk to him this weekend and express how I am feeling about it.

[HeartGoesOn]

I do believe that once the baby is here he will be more willing to move in--actually I think once he sees me this weekend he will want to move in.

 

Not to go off topic, but I thought you were having twins?

[lostnscared]

Not to go off topic, but I thought you were having twins?

 

I am, or at least that is what my ultrasound said. I'm still not 100% because up until I was 20 weeks, my midwife never felt the two heartbeats. Getting a second opinion next week, so time will tell!

 

Oh duh, just noticed why you said that. Obviously meant to write babies, instead of baby. Disregard the statement above.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well the issue is that I plan to do some more "spiritual" sort of stuff during the labor, and I don't want his input about how weird it is, or anything since he doesn't have the same philosophy as I do. I just can't picture him watching and not smirking or making a rude or smart comment about it, or telling me to just go to the hospital and get an epidural. But I will talk to him this weekend and express how I am feeling about it.

 

Crude comment aside, it is his right to be there. What happens during that moment no one knows until it happens but I honestly think if he isn't included in the birthing process, you are going to find it extremely hard for him to step up and give you the help you need after they are born. Because he very well can say you have wanted to do it all on your own up until now, why do you need me now? And it would be a very valid question.

[lostnscared]

Crude comment aside, it is his right to be there. What happens during that moment no one knows until it happens but I honestly think if he isn't included in the birthing process, you are going to find it extremely hard for him to step up and give you the help you need after they are born. Because he very well can say you have wanted to do it all on your own up until now, why do you need me now? And it would be a very valid question.

 

I was going to include him in the birthing process, at the end--when it got close to pushing. When I said I wanted to do most of the laboring by myself, I was referring to laboring by myself until it was time to push, not doing everything on my own. I know women who have done this and most of the time the men were okay with it(or else they wouldn't have agreed to it). A friend of mine labored at home for 10 hours, before calling her boyfriend to let him know she was on her way to the hospital. Got to the hospital and in an hour later had the baby. That is what I mean. I would not eliminate him from the pushing part, because I know that would be important to him.

I've been with this man for 6 years now(almost 7) and in tough times, he's tried his best to be supportive the best way he knows how, but unfortunately I believe some people are better at comforting and others have difficulties with it. For instance I admit I'm not good at comforting people. When my friend's husband punched her in the face earlier this year, I remember going to her house, and telling her that she needed to leave him, and yelling at her for being with him in the first(i.e. this was his 4th time hitting her). So I'm not saying that it's negative that he is not comforting, but I'm just being honest about the sort of personality he has. If he could assure me he would be quiet, then yes I wouldn't mind, but I'm not sure if he could honestly do that.

[Applewhite]

Crude comment aside, it is his right to be there. What happens during that moment no one knows until it happens but I honestly think if he isn't included in the birthing process, you are going to find it extremely hard for him to step up and give you the help you need after they are born. Because he very well can say you have wanted to do it all on your own up until now, why do you need me now? And it would be a very valid question.

 

I have to say I VEHEMENTLY disagree with this (words cannot even describe). Even though he is also a parent birth is something very different to the male and female. It is her body, her pain, her private moment and in that moment all parental rights aside she should be the ONLY one to dictate, decide and choose the circumstances of the birth. I think if she were more comfortable if he watched the birth standing on his head it would be a valid request. Not wanting him in the room is COMPLETELY reasonable and COMPLETELY up to her.

[OptomisticGirl]

I have to say I disagree with this (words cannot even describe). Even though he is also a parent birth is something very different to the male and female parent. It is her body, her pain, her private moment and in that moment all parental rights aside she should be the ONLY one to dictate, decide and choose the circumstances of the birth. I think if she were more comfortable that he watched the birth standing on his head it would be a valid request. Not wanting him in the room is COMPLETELY reasonable and COMPLETELY up to her.

 

Any woman who takes away a man's right to watch the brith of his children then yes, has no right to demand he step up to the plate afterward. Again, it's not a me, me, me, me, me situation. A man has just as much right as woman does in this scenario.

[lostnscared]

I have to say I VEHEMENTLY disagree with this (words cannot even describe). Even though he is also a parent birth is something very different to the male and female. It is her body, her pain, her private moment and in that moment all parental rights aside she should be the ONLY one to dictate, decide and choose the circumstances of the birth. I think if she were more comfortable if he watched the birth standing on his head it would be a valid request. Not wanting him in the room is COMPLETELY reasonable and COMPLETELY up to her.

 

That is how I feel as well. Even though we are both parents, and it his children too, I still feel as though I am going to be the one physically going through the labor and I need to be comfortable, and have focus. My mom told me that when she had me, my dad was very bummy and just watched tv--meanwhile mom was screaming in pain and my dad couldn't understand why she was p'od at him. Or a friend of mine who said she was crying, and her husband just went to sleep and told her "your exaggarating".

I kid you not, when a partner is not supportive the labor can quickly get frustrating. I've been with him long enough to know how he handles tough situations and I know that he does TRY to be comforting but he is not good at it, or least not the way that I feel would be "good" while I was in labor.

[Applewhite]

Any woman who takes away a man's right to watch the brith of his children then yes, has no right to demand he step up to the plate afterward. Again, it's not a me, me, me, me, me situation. A man has just as much right as woman does in this scenario.

 

OG you have to admit that you are a bit of an extremist about most issues concerning marriage, children etc. You are missing the point here I think. Of course anything involving his children he has rights etc. But NOT the actual moment of the birth. You have to be a little more open minded and realize this is a traumatic bodily event. It is much more private than having a painful diarrhea or violently vomiting in the toilet etc. The husband has the right to dictate being at birth as much as he has the right to dictate recording on camera a painful diarrhea and violent vomiting to watch it with his side of the family and neighbors.

[OptomisticGirl]

OG you have to admit that you are a bit of an extremist about most issues concerning marriage, children etc. You are missing the point here I think. Of course anything involving his children he has rights etc. But NOT the actual moment of the birth. You have to be a little more open minded and realize this is a traumatic bodily event. It is much more private than having a painful diarrhea or violently vomiting in the toilet etc. The husband has the right to dictate being at birth as much as he has the right to dictate recording on camera a painful diarrhea and violent vomiting to watch it with his side of the family and neighbors.

 

I dont think I'm an extremist. Why? Because I believe a man has every right to be in the room when his kids are born? This isn't one singular issue though. LS has spent this entire pregnancy wanting to do it on her own. She wanted to move out of state, she wanted this, she wanted that... she herself has admitted she has not went to her BF for his opinion but almost expected him to tag along with how she wanted things done. This is just another instance were she wants to control the situation and do it herself. That's fine but on the other hand, it's very rude to then grab her BF by the shirt and demand he step up being a dad when she hasn't really included him in this pregnancy or any decision making. I as a woman would be furious if my partner went and made huge decisions without at least consulting with me through something as huge as a pregnancy when it is also MY kids involved.

 

this entire thread has been filled with women telling LS 'it takes two to makes babies, he needs to step up' - well, that also guarantees him rights and what he wants. If you don't want someone in the room with you who belongs there during that moment, don't have sex with them. Plain and simple.

[lostnscared]

OG,

 

What about those women who have quick labors and end up having the baby before their husband makes it? Or women who for whatever reason their husband are not able to make to the birth--should these men not have to step up because they weren't there. I understand where you are going with this, but like Hike I think labor is a very intimate private experience and that ultimately the woman has to do what is most comfortable and best for her. If she feels as though her "so" will not be supportive or as if it will effect the way her labor goes, should she not at least be able to express this and have the labor she wants? I'm not undermining or underestimating the man's role in it all and the fact that he would feel very left out to not be there during the labor, I am only suggesting that ultimately it is the woman's body going through the experience and because of this she should at least be comfortable. Again I'm not going to deny my bf the right to see the "end" of the labor, and I am not even sure if during the labor I will do it on my own. Heck I'm not even sure if I will be able to have a homebirth, or anything else. All I am saying is that right now because I don't know how supportive and encouraging he would be, I would rather do the majority of the labor(besides the end) on my own.

[lostnscared]

But even if I decided not to have him there, it is his babies too. The fact that he somehow has a leeway to opt out because he cannot be there for the birth--I just don't agree with. I have tried to control things and I admit that, but in terms of labor--he will see his babies being born even if he is not there for the majority of it, he will be there for the end. I would not deny him that, and I'm not even saying I will deny him of the labor experience itself. Remember this is something I will talk about this weekend when I see him.

It was something I WANTED for my own personal reasons, but I know that we can reach a compromise.

Do want to bring up something that happened earlier in the pregnancy. When I was 6 weeks pregnant I was so sick that I was throwing up 6x a day, and severely dehydrated. I told my bf I needed to go to the hospital. And he didn't want to go. But the next day I was even worse and felt so weak I could barely walk so He finally said, "Okay go to the hospital but I want to be there too. You will not go to the hosipital without me" So he came. And the whole time he was complaining. First he complained because we couldn't find parking. Then he complained because we had to wait awhile. Then he complained because he felt I was being passive when the doctors were explaining things to me. In the end he ended up leaving because the doctor said it could take a while for them to run tests. He left, and left me there to do it on my own. I had told him in the beginning NOT to come, and that I could take care of it by myself, but he insisted on going.

That is what I mean when I say not comforting. He gets impatient.

[OptomisticGirl]

Those are scenarios though were the women doesn't CHOSE to not have her husband there. My dad almost missed me because I Was 7 mins of labor and he was having to fill paperwork out. But this isn't the first time you have tried taking control of it and as a fellow control freak, I just don't see anything good come from it. It's one thing to say okay, yes, you have to be comfortable while giving birth but then again, this entire pregnancy has been 'I can do this on my own' and if I were your BF I would feel like you don't need me to do anything. And we ALL want to know we are needed by those we love. As I said, I am a control freak as well and one thing I have learned is I can have things my way but there are huge consequences sometimes for me being pig headed and wanting it only my way. When you are a control freak and you want everything to go your way, you push other people away because they think you don't need them so that when you DO need them - like after the birth - they are left wondering why? You have been about doing it all on your own up until now, why do you need my help now?

 

I'm not saying to not labor some and then bring him in at the last minute - although I still stand I think him being there even if it's standing at the doorway will help him feel like he is a part of it - but at some point the focus has to be taken off you. I don't mean that in a mean way but from one control freak to another, being how controlling we are can quickly end relationshpis.

[OptomisticGirl]

But even if I decided not to have him there, it is his babies too. The fact that he somehow has a leeway to opt out because he cannot be there for the birth--I just don't agree with. I have tried to control things and I admit that, but in terms of labor--he will see his babies being born even if he is not there for the majority of it, he will be there for the end. I would not deny him that, and I'm not even saying I will deny him of the labor experience itself. Remember this is something I will talk about this weekend when I see him.

 

But you also have to remember for you you have 9 months to bond with the babies. You have felt them kick, hiccup, roll around - he hasn't had any of that, especially since he lives in another state right now. It's very easy for men to feel like they are being left out of the pregnancy process when they virtually can't do anything physical becuase we as woman handle that. For them it doesn't become real until they hold that baby for the first time whereas we have had 9 months to bond. I would def. ask him if this is one the reasons he isn't moving in.

[rocio]

Ls is not obligated to have him there through the entire labor if it's going to stress her out. The father's presence is not nearly as important as the health of the mother and baby, and the comfort of the mother. If she is upset or stressed by him, her body will become tense making the labor more difficult and risky.

 

I think it's entirely fair to have him there during the pushing stage but not prior.