Won't live with me until we're married???

[OptomisticGirl]

Honestly?

 

He doesn't have to live with you to help you raise the kids. I hate to say it but all I see in this is 'me, me, me, me, me, me'. You want him to move in with you... you want to wait a few years before marriage.. you want him to do this, that. To be perfectly honest if I were in his position I would have a HARD time excepting that much given to me, especially if it weren't by my own parents. Step back and look at it from his perspective.

 

Yes, your dad is being gracious and buying a house for you guys. Does that mean it's in your dad's name or yours or yours and your BF's? Will the two of you be able to do what you want with it or since it was a gift have to run it by your dad? As the child of the parent giving the gift you see nothing wrong with it but as the SO, it's a huge thing. I can see why he's backing out. Even with the house in both your names, there is still that level of that it was a gift from your parents.

 

As I said, he doesn't have to live with you to raise his kids. He can be there all the time up until it's time to go home until he starts working. Your mom is hiring a nanny so I really don't see how him not physically lving there is suddenly so wrong. And honestly if you go asking for child support BECAUSE he won't live with you, he's going to see that as a tactic from you saying 'I don't trust you to care for our kids... unless you are living with me.' I'm one of those stubbron people who like to get my way or the highway as well, it's something I struggle with in coming to a balance with L's feelings. But with this whole moving to another state, it really wasn't his choice. You said you were doing it with or without him - so to be around his kids he probably just agreed with it. Take a step back and look at it from his POV. So what if he doesn't live with you and the kids right away? You say it's okay for him not to want to live with you and not be married but then in the other hand you want him to change his mind because it doesn't fit your plans.

 

And as Crazyaboutdogs said, you can't understand why he was 'okay' with knocking you up before marriage and suddenly wants marriage but flip the coin, yo are wanting the two of you to live together without any set plans for marriage after you getting pregnant. At the end of the day, he's the father of your kids and he has a right to not want to live with you before marriage and still be able to care for his daughters.

[OptomisticGirl]

I

I've already heard the "you should get married" talk from family members with views similar to my boyfriends, and I'm thinking that this will also incite the same sort of "lectures" and I'm sick of it. Also getting sick of my boyfriend being wishy-washy. I just feel as though I really can't trust him to stick by things lately, and it shouldn't be the way esp. since I'm pregnant.

 

If you feel this way moving in together should not be somethign the two of you do then.

[Fudgie]

If you feel this way moving in together should not be somethign the two of you do then.

 

I agree with OG. LNS, you've had issues with him being "wishy washy" since the day you got pregnant.

 

You being pregnant isn't going to change anything. Despite what people say, pregnancy/babies don't magically change a person and make a man "step up". This is why we have so many father-less children. I agree with you, yes, he DOES need to man up and take care of those children because he did help to make them, but that doesn't mean that he WILL. I can almost promise you that he's probably not going to be there in the future for these kids either. He doesn't have a good past history.

[lostnscared]

Yes he doesn't have to live with me to raise the kids. But this was something he wanted initially. He was the one who had wanted it, when we FIRST found out I was pregnant. He said he did not want to be a part time dad, and wanted us to live together. Also said he wanted us to get married. In the beginning I was okay with just living with my mom(because she would help) and him living seperately, but he was the one that said he did not want to be a part time dad. So since January and up until now, that is what our plan has been based on--not leaving him out, and allowing us to live together and parent. I didn't think of it out of my butt, it was something we both had wanted(him more so in the beginning). So yes I did get used to the idea. But the only things I have wanted from him was to move down here with me, and for us to live together in this house. I have not asked of anything else. And in both decisions, I allowed him to think about it and give me an answer. He was NOT forced. And there were good reasons for us moving out of Chicago that even later on he AGREED with after certain circumstances and situations happens. As for the marriage--yes I do agree that me not wanting to get married is about "me, me, me" but him wanting to get married is about "him" is it not? Why would it be a good idea for us to get married if we both are not ready for it(for whatever reason). To me marriage is far too big of a decision to do it just because one person wants to, when the other is not ready. Also from the beginning I told him how I felt about marriage. And he still wanted to live with me, despite this. Now months later he has CHANGED his mind, and with really bad timing.

The house is in my dad's name for legal reasons(one being since I don't have a job, no income, etc, credit is okay) but it will be OUR house. It is a house that I went looking for with my dad, picked out, and so on. My dad lives in another state and has his own place, and is letting us do what we want with the house because again it is a gift. It's not with any conditions. And I trust this, because he also bought a car(in his name) for my college graduation and gave it to me. He has not put any conditions on that either. I understand why it may hurt his ego, or make him feel bad, and me and him discussed this, before I told my dad it was okay. But he had assured me at that point that as much as he did not like it, that he also knew it was a good thing and that he would move in with me. He needed to be honest with me at that point, because if he would have been, my dad wouldn't have got the house and this all could have avoided? Am I the only one missing that?

As for the nanny, yes during the day the nanny will be there to help. But at night my boyfriend had told me he would be there to help. It's not just one baby it is two. I really would appreciate his help--since he did participate in making the babies and was vehmently against me having an abortion(something I was going to do in the beginning of the pregnancy). I probably won't ask for child support, because it isn't needed. And with me deciding to move to TN with or without him, I admit that was wrong. But later on, before I did move to TN, we talked about it, and I decided I would not move to TN unless he was comfortable with it, which by the time he was(due to some circumstances that happened that made him agree with me about continuing to live in Chicago). I don't want him to change his mind about not living with me. I respect his feelings on the matter. I just feel as if it is WRONG point blank, to do it at the last minute, and also am feeling as if he slowly starting to bail out on a lot of plans that we both made together and it is making me feel very unsure and stressed out about how this will turn out. I'm also left having to explain a lot of loved ones and it's a very bad position to be in.

The difference in him changing his mind about marriage, and me wanting to live together without any set plans is that he was OKAY with this for the last 5 months. He was the one who initially said he wants to live with me. Now he has changed his mind. I don't see how the situations are comparable. I'm sticking by our original plan(living together without being married--but with us committing to it down the road), he has went off on a tangent.

[lostnscared]

I agree with OG. LNS, you've had issues with him being "wishy washy" since the day you got pregnant.

 

You being pregnant isn't going to change anything. Despite what people say, pregnancy/babies don't magically change a person and make a man "step up". This is why we have so many father-less children. I agree with you, yes, he DOES need to man up and take care of those children because he did help to make them, but that doesn't mean that he WILL. I can almost promise you that he's probably not going to be there in the future for these kids either. He doesn't have a good past history.

 

I don't believe he will abandon his children. It just isn't how he was raised at all. He loves children, and has always loved children, and one thing that I do trust(and that has not wavered) is that no matter what happens between me and him, he will be in children's life.

But you are right about one thing, he is very wishy washy. Not just in this situation but in other things in his life. It's becoming annoying, because this isn't the time to be this way.

I would still like him to live with me, because I just want us to be a family in a sense, but I'm not going to force him.

Hopefully when I see him this week, I'll get a good idea about what is going on with him.

[OptomisticGirl]

No, you shouldn't get married if you don't want to but as well, he doesn't have to live with you if he doesn't want to. It may be bad timing but he has a right to change his mind and to change what he views as 'right', we all do. I just don't understand how you can view marriage as a huge commitment - which it is - and not living together. Have you ever thought that living together for him is the same as marriage is to you?

 

But it doesn't matter that it will be your house - legally, your dad owns it. At any time if your BF doesn't do something your dad likes he can kick him out becuase your BF has no legal ground to stand on. I wouldn't move into my SO"s house if their dad bought it for them without it being at least partially in my name, no. Why not go looking for it with your BF? Could be anotehr reason he doesn't feel comfortable moving in. HE may have been fine with it but again, he is allowed to change his mind. Yes, he very well could be getting cold feet on impending faterhood but again, that is isn't a crime.

 

I understand it choice a bad time to do it but again - would it not be better for him to bail now then you guys live together for 2.5 years and THEN he bail? If I felt L was backing out of our plans and going to bail, I wouldn't go ahead and take a huge commitment step with him simply for extra help.

 

YEs but again, he is allowed to do that. He's allowed to have come to a 'empthathy' about what he wants, even if it is the worst possible time.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't believe he will abandon his children. It just isn't how he was raised at all. He loves children, and has always loved children, and one thing that I do trust(and that has not wavered) is that no matter what happens between me and him, he will be in children's life.

But you are right about one thing, he is very wishy washy. Not just in this situation but in other things in his life. It's becoming annoying, because this isn't the time to be this way.

I would still like him to live with me, because I just want us to be a family in a sense, but I'm not going to force him.

Hopefully when I see him this week, I'll get a good idea about what is going on with him.

 

And this to him could very well be marriage, not just simply lviing together.

[lostnscared]

I'm not making him live with him either. I just feel like he should have been honest. It's stressful to do this at the last minute and that is really my biggest complaint that I feel as if he bailed out, when if he KNEW he felt this way, he should have been honest. Marriage and living together are both big commitments, and I can see how people view them as the same. At one point I did too. But for me, it's a personal belief of mine that one does not get married just because they are pregnant, and I also have some negative feeling about marriage in general that STEM from a divorce my parents had last year, and from other rocky marriages within my family and his. Until I can resolve those issues, I do not want to get married. And don't think it is a good idea. Living together does not hold the same sort of negative feelings, and also would be so that we could 'share' parenting. I have thought that to him living together is the same as marriage, but then again if that is how he felt why did he present the idea in the beginning of the pregnancy, in the first place?

Legally my dad owns it, but that has nothing to do with my bf and I relationship. My dad would not kick my bf out, nor would he have a way to, when he lives more than 9 hours away. He isn't that invested in our relationship so much so that he would care enough to do that. And as I said, my dad bought a car in his name, and gave it to me as a gift. I've done a lot of messed up things and he has never attempted to take the car away--he see's the car a mine, and that is how he see's the house. If I truly believed that my dad would view this house as a conditional thing, then I wouldn't have agreed to it. I didn't go looking for the house with my bf, because my bf is in Chicago and I'm in TN. He will not be back down here until August, due to financial and work reasons--he didn't have the time to come up here and look with me, but I did email him homes, and emailed him a picture of the house before telling my dad that was the one I wanted.

I know he is allowed to change his mind, I just don't understand why if he has been feeling this way for a while, did he just NOT admit that in the beginning and not give a "yes" until he was sure. I feel like at his age(he'll be 26 next week) it makes little sense to not be honest and direct with me rather than playing games.

I wouldn't have made a huge commitment with him(the house, having him move down here) if I knew he was going to start doing this. But still yes I would like extra help with the babies-is that a crime lol? If he bails then he bails, but it doesn't change the fact that just as he is entitled to change his mind, I am entitled to feel like having the extra help is worth having him live w/ me.

I know he is allowed to do that, I just ugh--I don't know, I just starting to feel stressed out that is all.

[lostnscared]

And this to him could very well be marriage, not just simply lviing together.

 

I know that, and I really am understanding where he is coming from. But IMO if he has always felt this way, then why couldn't he have been upfront and honest from the getgo. That is really the issue I am having with this, that I feel like he is being wishy-washy instead of direct and it is ruining set plans that WE both made. As much as I understand and respect his reasoning, I'm not liking how he is communicating it and continuing to change his mind about things at the last minute.

[OptomisticGirl]

But he very well could have just changed his mind- is he not allowed to do that? Perhaps he presented it because he wanted to be with you and the kids? Remember, in the beginning of the pregnancy you were adament about moving south with or without him. And while he may have eventually decided on hsi own to move down, in the beginning it could have been he was doing whatever he could to save the relationship and give ideas.

 

I hate to say it, but, you can never say never. I never thought my ex would stiff with me for all the apartment bills from teh apartment we had - and he did. In good times it's easy to not think about what could happen. Yes but again, you are his child. This man is ONLY the father of his grandchildren to your dad. It may not matter now or it very well never COULD matter - but it would be an event that would weigh heavily on my mind.

 

He may not have felt this way int he beginning though. Again, feelings can change just like our decisions. You want to know why he didn't tell you this in the beginning but have you considered he didn't feel like this in the beginning? That it has no bearing on that, it's somethign that has recently made him change his mind?

 

You can still have extra help with the babies. Again, he doesn't have to live with you to give that extra help. Suggust him staying a night or two a week if you want night help or see about finding a nanny that will help during the night and he can help during the day. There is no difference with him living there and helping out and him living some were else and helping out - except he is physically there when he isn't helping out.

[OptomisticGirl]

I know that, and I really am understanding where he is coming from. But IMO if he has always felt this way, then why couldn't he have been upfront and honest from the getgo. That is really the issue I am having with this, that I feel like he is being wishy-washy instead of direct and it is ruining set plans that WE both made. As much as I understand and respect his reasoning, I'm not liking how he is communicating it and continuing to change his mind about things at the last minute.

 

For me then I would take him living with me completely off the table. If he is wishy washy why have him live with you if you aren't sure he will stay with it? Is it not better this way that he isn't living with you because of his wishy washness?

[lostnscared]

Well before I left, we had both agreed on it, and it was at that time that we had sat down and talked about it, and I had told him that I would not go unless he was still on board with coming down. And still at this point he was stuck on us living together when he came down here. One thing I can say about my dad with confidence is that he is good at staying out of relationship issues, or staying out of relationships completely. And I don't really talk to my parents about my relationship with him anyway--it's just not something we do in my family. My parents are hands off about our relationships, and more controlling about other aspects in our lives. So if something were to happen between me and the bf, my dad wouldn't know about it and wouldn't care unless it was physical abuse at which that would be perfect grounds for my bf to leave. My bf knows my dad well enough to know that as well. But I could see how the fact that it isn't HIS house(the bf's) could make him feel bad. I don't know, we could always sell the house down the road and get our own. It's really a temporary situation, just for now. And I've told him that, and he seemed okay, guess he wasn.t

Your right he could have changed his mind. I just don't know what changed his mind. WE have been doing the LDR thing--so I'm wondering if it's that? I just don't know why all the sudden he changed his mind, or why he is okay living at his friends home, but not okay living at a home with me and the kids. It just bothers me that he is more interested in living with his friend, then with me.

 

That's a good idea OG--about him maybe staying over a couple of nights. Ugh. Again, now it's just a matter of explaining everything to mom and dad.

[lostnscared]

For me then I would take him living with me completely off the table. If he is wishy washy why have him live with you if you aren't sure he will stay with it? Is it not better this way that he isn't living with you because of his wishy washness?

 

Yes it is better, I guess. I am now just concerned with having to tell my dad that I will be the only one living in this house, and that he got the house really for no apparent reason. The house wasn't inexpensive, and I feel bad because I wouldn't have had my dad do this if I had known things would go this way.

[OptomisticGirl]

I would go at it from that angle - finding out what changed his mind. If you are fine with him lviing some where else and are only upset about him changing his mind, ask about that. Let him know you are okay with it - and suggust him staying a night or two and you will find a nanny that works night based and he can help out during the day - but you want to know WHAT made him change his mind so that HE doesn't feel like you are trying to make him change his mind.

 

But as you said, if they don't care about the relationship this really shouldn't bother them.

[lostnscared]

I would go at it from that angle - finding out what changed his mind. If you are fine with him lviing some where else and are only upset about him changing his mind, ask about that. Let him know you are okay with it - and suggust him staying a night or two and you will find a nanny that works night based and he can help out during the day - but you want to know WHAT made him change his mind so that HE doesn't feel like you are trying to make him change his mind.

 

But as you said, if they don't care about the relationship this really shouldn't bother them.

 

Good point. I didn't really think about it. Another thing that bothers me is that this friend has a drinking problem, and my bf likes to drink too. I already told him that if we live together he would have to cut back drinking, and no smoking, etc. It seems like since he'll be able to do things freely at his friends--maybe that is why he wants to live there? I just thought about that. He has cut back on his cigarette smoking and was suppose to cut back completely by the time the babies were here, but he is having a hard time completely quitting. The last time he came down here, after staying with his friend for a few days, he told me a crazy story about them getting so drunk that his friend was literally driving on the sidewalk. They barhopped three days straight. I realize they are young guys, and before I was pregnant I used to get sloppy drunk too but now that babies are on the way I just feel like it's time for things to change. Anyway a part of me thinks this is a reason why, because he knows I will not tolerate that sort of behavior, and that he will have to quit smoking. I think am thinking he doesn't want to grow up, and maybe that changed his mind. That or his religious daddy told him that he needs to marry me before living with me(I am thinking it is that as well).

 

My parents don't care about the relationship. But WILL care about the way my boyfriend is handling big decisions, and my dad WILL care that he spent money on a home that really isn't needed, because the intent in him getting the home was for us to have a "family" and have our "home" so to speak. If I was just going to be by myself my dad would have gotten me an apartment. That is why I think he will be upset.

[OptomisticGirl]

It could be. To be fair, no one likes to be told what to do by a partner. Obviously no smoking around the babies but especially men, I have found in my short years it's best to suggust it and not come out and say 'you need to do this and that' when it comes to things like that. I still do from time to time with L but if it's something he feels strongly about, he isn't afraid to stand toe to toe with me and telling me I'm crossing a line. Also remember that for you, being pregnant kind of fast fowards the 'maturity' so to speak. My best friend's ex husband said he would stop before their daughter was born. He never did - he would go outside and smoke - but my best friend def. nagged him about it. Some women mature before men and being pregnant can speed that process up because you are having the baby grow inside you - for him, he's an outsider viewing the miracle and really does nothing during these nine months. You get to start preparing durign thsi time but for him it can feel like he isn't a part of the process.

 

My question is, why does he need to quit smokign? I don't smoke and I'm not for smoking around children obviously but my own mom smoked and raised us. We were never in the room and if we walked in she would put it out. I mean, it's fine to not want your kids around it but you also have to look at it as while it's a disgusting habit, it's HIS habit. He could also be feeling like you are 'mothering' him by making him quit. And honestly, smokers never quit bc someone else wants them to. They only quit when THEY want to.

 

But this again could be another reason your boyfriend doesn't want to move in. Yes, your dad went out of his way to help you BUT it shouldn't matter to your parents how your BF handled the situation because it's between you two. I can understand if you and your BF went to your aprents and were like 'can you help us?" but this was an offer. And yes, the timing sucks but again, how he handles decisions is between you two. Take the gift out and would your parents have a say? Would they care?

[lostnscared]

I know--I tried hard not to tell him what to do, and he did make it clear to me that he wasn't going to change it was just who he "was"(about some other stuff I tried to get him to change). So I took it from a different angle, and only tell him to think about the kids, and about being a role model. At first it seemed like it was working. And like I said, he has def. cut back on cig. smoking, he went from smoking a pack in three days, to smoking an entire pack in the course of a week. It's just taking longer than I thought. I know I could ask him to step outside and smoke, and he did that when he used to come to my apartment, but it's really that during the early pregnancy the smell of smoke on his clothes and on his breath literally made me vomit because I was so sensitive to smell, and ever since then I cannot even be in the same proximity as a smoker, or look it the same. He had agreed that he would stop, not really for me, but more so for his kids because he realized that smoking was not only disgusting but that it can effect his life span, and it is an expensive habit.

I know that men mature differently during pregnancy, but I guess since he was so against abortions, and whatnot and so excited about being a dad I really thought he would step up sooner.

Hmm..If it wasn't a gift and it was just a house that I was getting that wasn't bought by him, then no my dad wouldn't care lol. He would probably not think highly of the bf, but at the same wouldn't say much about it to me. Mom wouldn't care either--but would be concerned about how much work I would have when it comes to the kids since he wouldn't be around. I think it's the fact that someone else bought it, that makes it look bad if he bails out.

[OptomisticGirl]

Have you ever smoked? I never have but my mom has and it's not easy to quit when you think you can't. L use to smoke and one day just put them down adn never picked them back up. My mom, she smokes when she's stressed and she ties that with it so if she's stressed she thinks she needs one. It's not easy for some.

 

Yes but just like women can get depressed after the baby is born, I have read about a lot of men that can as well DURING the process but they really dont bond with the babies like the mom does. Yeah they can feel the baby kick and everything by placing a hand on your tummy but obviously being with them 24/7 can sometimes cause feelings of jealousy, even in dad's who are excited and parents who were trying to concieve.

 

Exactly. At the end of the day while it's a bad timing decision, the only reason it's going to look bad is because it was a gift. If this were you guys buying a house it would look bad but not AS bad. So in that sense you have to take it to your parents as 'I know you aren't going to like this but HE doesn't feel comfortable'. While they are giving you a great gift, you also have to back your partner if you are okay with his decision in the short term and it otherwise wouldn't matter to the other people involved.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Why did he change his mind......because from the get go he wasn't too keen. Remember you said that he wasn' really too keen on moving...then you "talked to him" and then he changed his mind and decided to move. Then he wasn't keen on living in a house that your father would buy and living together with you without being married...but then you "talked to him" and he changed his mind and agreed with you. I see how you are arguing your point on this thread and I have met people who do the same kind of thing...push, push, push, rehash it in many different ways, until they wear the other person down and the person finally agrees. Yet it is an agreement based on being worn down by the discussions or the implied ramifications if you don't do it the other person's way. So in reality, the agreement you finally got from him to do it your way may not have been because he truly believed itand wanted it in his heart, it was just the path of least resistance. When someone changes their mind because they feel pressured to do so and not because they actually did come around to that way of thinking, then it is not surprising that they might back down when the reality of the decision has hit them.

[Seraphim]

Lost,

 

You do what you have to for YOUR family. No one else here has to live it, work for it, or take care of it or live it. Only YOU know what is possible and what is good for you, your babies and your life together.

[Seraphim]

It is also the fault of passive aggressive people not to say what they mean in the first place. My husband used to do this. Tell me what I wanted to hear, just so he had the "path of least resistance" as you say. Then at the 11th hour he would go and do what he pleased in the first place. THAT is passive aggressive behavoir and her BF is being JUST as culpable with his wishy washy passive aggressive style of communicating. Say what you mean and mean what you say, then no one is confused.

 

It is up to him to communicate properly too, not just her.

 

OP, I would stick to your guns about the smoking. Smoking is SOOOOO bad for people. My father smoked on me before and after I was born and I have been an asthmatic since I was very small. I watched my grandfather die of lung cancer and weigh 80 pounds when he died just ravaged by cancer. It is not a good role model, you are right, people have known smoking is bad for you and others for YEARS. It will take years off his life,your life and your kids lives and cause numerous health problems for everyone.

[rocio]

My policy with smoking is that it's okay as long as I dont have to be made aware of it. I don't want to see it or smell it. What you do on your own time is your choice.

 

Third hand smoke us bad for babies. I knew a woman whose child has terrible breathing problems and she would say "what more can I do? I go outside to smOke". Yeah, like you don't carry those toxins inside after every cigarette.

[Batya33]

I would never live in the same house with someone, even for one night, with a smoker if my child was there unless for that time period he/she smoked outside the house only (and then only for one night- never for a longer time other than in a complete emergency). But having said that I think overall Victoria has given you the best, most thoughtful advice. I also wanted to add -and this might sound like a strange compromise so bear with me. How about this -he moves in with you but you sleep in separate rooms until you're married. That way he can help at night with the babies. I offer that suggestion because of a friend of mine whose girlfriend became pregnant and they broke up (they'd been together a short time) but he would stay over her place and sleep on the couch a few nights a week while the baby was young. Now, obviously they were broken up but wouldn't the separate bedrooms help your bf's concerns about "cohabitation?"

 

I also agree, FWIW that it's very immature of him to change his mind at this late date. You made it clear that you didn't want to marry yet and he agreed and then you made all these arrangements based on your mutual understanding. Not the best move on his part, that's for sure.

[rocio]

Nothing that goes on in a relationship happens in a vacuum. Its not about who is right or wrong but there are some unhealthy dynamics in this relationship.

 

For example, if you treat a man like he is optional in the equation then don't be surprised if he opts out. If you act as if you are the more important parent, don't be surprised when his parenting efforts or abilities fall short.

 

I would be furious if I was about to give birth to twins and my partner suddenly decided not to live with the family. But I'm order to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future it's necessary to understand the series of events that lead up to it.

[tinkerbellkj]

Lost,

 

You do what you have to for YOUR family. No one else here has to live it, work for it, or take care of it or live it. Only YOU know what is possible and what is good for you, your babies and your life together.

 

This is absolutely the best piece of advice you have been given. Just as HE is entitled to his feelings, YOU are entitled to your own.

 

For the record, I was not married when I got pregnant, but if my now husband had come out of nowhere with these new concerns and moral convictions I would be seething.