BF Wants to Take Long Weekend Trip with Female Friend

[hexaemeron]

And if a friend wanted you to sleep with him (in both senses), would you feel upset if you partner pitched a fit about that? What aspects of your potential behaviour can your partner legitimately feel upset about in your view?

 

If I'm dishonest. If I'm lazy. If I'm abusive. If I don't try to accomplish my best at everything I do in my life. Those things are absolutely legitimate.

[FarthestEdge]

OP

 

What's your relationship with this woman like? Does she seem to respect you/your relationship? Or do you get the sense that she is sizing you up like competition? Is she interested in you, as the woman who enhances her friends (your bf's) life, or does she see you as an interference in their friendship?

 

Also- Why is she not taking her husband? If they have a struggling marriage, I can't see how her holidaying with another man is going to help that. I do have to wonder what HER intent is.

 

Have you pointed out to your BF that you are hurt that a trip with you seems unimportant, but this trip with her is worth the strife, guilt and manipulation? Would you feel any differently if he went, but also committed to a weekend in Paris for the two of you next month?

 

Regardless of how much the OP may, or may not trust her bf, I can see the OP's problem. The lack of interest in a holiday for them in contrast to his enthusiasm for this one, combined with his efforts to embarrass her into backing off with her objections by making her look like a jealous, unreasonable cow has me raising an eyebrow. He is being manipulative. He is pitting one woman against another, instead of making his own decision. He doesn't NEED the OP's permission to go, nor can he BLAME the OP if he decides that the price he'd pay for going, is not worth what he thinks he'd get out of it.

 

Hex, I get what you are saying, and I agree that a man and a woman CAN holiday together in a very platonic fashion. But not EVERY man and woman can. Honestly, her motives seem questionable to me. While I agree that you need trust in a relationship, even you admit that it is possible that ANYONE could cheat. We've had these discussions on here before. So it's a little incongruent to expect absolute, unwavering trust while acknowledging that anyone has the capacity to violate that trust....And I don't know what the solution to that conundrum is....In my life I choose to trust until proven otherwise, but peoples comfort zones differ.

 

People DO do stupid uncharacteristic things when on holiday (I certainly have) that they'd never do at home....so I can see her point here...It could potentially be a recipe for disaster EVEN if he IS trustworthy right now...Stuff happens...and more stuff happens when you're in a Spanish Villa drinking far too much wine away from home, responsibility, and life seems almost perfect....Sometimes trusting someone means trusting them to have the common sense not to put themselves in predicaments where they would be seriously tempted to cheat...Because given the right set of circumstances, the 'perfect storm' of opportunity, desire and atmosphere, anyone COULD make a bad split-second decision.

 

OP- in the end, I think you may be right in your analysis that what you both consider appropriate doesn't mesh. Only you can decide if it's a dealbreaker for you. Having said that, don't use it as a threat to get your way. It should not be a case of "if you go, it's over", it should, if anything be a case of having different values. Make your decision and live with it. But I do agree with DN, if you break if off, do so in time for him to go. Your other option is to say "I'm not thrilled about it, but if it matters that much to you, then go, have fun." And suck up your insecurities and wait it out. If you're prepared to end the relationship because you THINK you can't trust him, you could just as easily wait 4 more days and end it because you now KNOW you can't....

 

I'm all over the board on this one. I see both sides, and my reaction would be based in part, on what I believed this womans motives to be, which I cannot ascertain....

 

Tough call...

[DN]

If I'm dishonest. If I'm lazy. If I'm abusive. If I don't try to accomplish my best at everything I do in my life. Those things are absolutely legitimate.

So you do have expectations of a partner. And if that partner isn't trying to accomplish his best - that means you have a right to judge that behaviour and make an issue of it? Who are you to judge whether a partner is doing their best? Isn't that their decision to make? And isn't it somewhat irrational to think you have a right to make that judgment about their behaviour?

 

That means you do have expectations about a partner's behaviour - they don't include this particular one and so people are therefore irrational because there expectations may be different from yours?

[Batya33]

If I'm dishonest. If I'm lazy. If I'm abusive. If I don't try to accomplish my best at everything I do in my life. Those things are absolutely legitimate.

 

I would find it emotionally abusive if my partner gave me the choice of either letting him go on the trip described or we'd be through.

 

I'd find it dishonest if my partner committed to me in a monogamous way and then argued that going on the trip mentioned was consistent with monogamy - because I would be highly suspicious that he truly believed that as opposed to simply being selfish and wanting to do this without considering my comfort level.

[Sanesoul]

I agree with most other posters that this is disrespectful...and the biggest thing that makes me think that is the married woman's intentions. It sounds like she is wanting this chance to try and cheat on her husband or she would ask him to go.

[camerainaction]

ah...the friend....where do I even start. I like this girl. We were friendly before I started dating my bf. She married her husband young (20 going on 21) and the two of them had nonstop problems one year into their marriage. The husband spends alot of time and money on his hobbies and I suspect that was the initial conflict. Anyway, three years ago they were on the brink of divorce (as in almost going to sign the papers the next day) and changed their minds last minute. My bf has always been good friends with both of them. When he was single, he spent considerable time with both of them together. They took foreign trips together but it was never just him and the wife. Honestly when I first started dating him I thought the three of them has the most bizarre friendship. Whenever the husband and wife have a fight, they both turn to my bf to complain. He serves as sort of a listener/mediator to their marital problems.

 

I trust that she does not have any evil plans up her sleeves but i also have plenty of reasons to not trust her. in fact last year our friends group went to a beer festival. She came with us while her husband was out of town. At the end of the night only one friend was sober enough to drop everyone off. He later told my bf that this girl had invited him into her house for sex to which he refused. He had been married for more than five years to a mutual friend. I was stunned when I heard it from my bf. I guess I can give it to her that she was really really drunk but no woman in her right mind will offer to have sex with someone if they have stronger morals. She later told her husband and nothing came out of it. But I could never look at her the same way again. On most days I feel like she is just looking for an opportunity, a perfectly handsome stranger, to meet up so she can shake off her estranged husband. I also do believe she has low morales (she has stolen a pair of nice strappy sandals from a department store even though she is perfectly capable of affording them) and high ambitions and is often times looking for a cheap thrill, all traits make for a dangerous woman.

 

I think the husband was invited but he couldn't go for some reason. The sad part is that the husband believes in this whole "if I trust her she can do whatever she wants" thing and doesn't object to this kind of strange behaviors. It frankly shines a light on why they no longer have that happy spark, because they just don't care anymore.

[SapphireNoir10]

I wouldnt be able to stay with someone who could do this and not see why you might have hang ups about it or be upset about it.

 

I'd also be annoyed if my boyfriend was ok with me doing the same. I like that he would be just as concerned/worried about the implications as I would in the situation your in. I want him to care enough to not wanting me sharing a room with another guy. Maybe thats immature but thats me and what I want.

 

Wants in a relationship have to be similar or compromised on.

 

You have to decide if you can deal with it or not.

 

I also HATE he tells her that your some sort of jealous person.

[penelope13]

Both my partner and I are from a culture where we don't categorize people constantly by their gender and thus having friends from the opposite sex, spending time without the partner with these friends, even traveling with them seems totally normal to us.

 

The question of respect/ putting your partner first only comes in play in respect to: time divided between partner and friends, not going on a trip that your partner would like to do with you (there are a number of things I am not interested in so much, so in this case I would never be upset if my partner chooses to do that with his friends, regardless of their gender), not doing anything with a friend that you wouldn't do in the presence of your partner, being monogamous.

 

Of course things get into the grey area if one of these friends has a romantic interest, but in this case I have to trust my partner (and I do) that he can resist/ won't do anything that I am uncomfortable with. Although I am dead sure that if my partner was aware of this potential romantic interest he would chose anyway not to spend time with that person that could be considered encouraging/inappropriate. Thus his decision (and my comfort) is not dependent on the gender of the friend, but more if this particular person has an interest in my partner or not.

 

As to the question of removing temptation/ slippy slope: you cannot live/ create a life without temptation, there are always opportunities regardless of at home, at work, while shopping, or traveling.

 

Is a romantic location more tempting? - Only if you have the kind of character to be influenced by such things. Many people are living/ at home in these romantic locations. Are we assuming just because of the location people living there necessarily are less committed to their partners - of course not. It's not the location, it's your personal values.

 

Thus personally I have no issue with my partner traveling with other women if there is a specific occasion, not even if they would sleep in the same room (in that case I know that they are not sleeping under the same blanket). And just because I have no problem with it (and vice versa) doesn't mean either that this happens all the time.

[Fudgie]

Whoa, that is not okay at all. I'd have a cow if my S.O. did that.

 

You have every right to be jealous and worried. This is totally out of line and inappropriate.

 

Either he shouldn't go or you should come along with him! If I were going to Spain, I'd love to take my S.O. with me to see the sights. Why hasn't he suggested this?

[Miss Firecracker]

And WHY is it you like this girl? She steals shoes and husbands, and you really LIKE her? Really?

[hexaemeron]

Thank you so very much for posting, Miss P. Eloquent as always.

[camerainaction]

And WHY is it you like this girl? She steals shoes and husbands, and you really LIKE her? Really?

 

Frankly, I have no big issues with the person. I recognize that she is fun, warm, helpful and often kind to friends. I think she is also a selfish opportunist, but doesn't everyone have a dark side...

 

I don't want to write her off as a person but yes I dislike her inability to back off from this situation even when she must realize that it has caused a strain in my relationship.

[Fudgie]

If your boyfriend really CARES about you and your feelings, he will back away from this, I promise.

 

This isn't a simple "gf jealousy" thing. It is RIGHT and HEALTHY for you to be worried about him going away to Spain for a couple weeks with a "female friend" who clearly steals other men. Fact of the matter is that he shouldn't be going.

He needs to understand that it's inappropriate for him to go unless YOU come along, and out of respect for you and your boundaries, he needs to not go.

[FarthestEdge]

As to the question of removing temptation/ slippy slope: you cannot live/ create a life without temptation, there are always opportunities regardless of at home, at work, while shopping, or traveling.

 

Is a romantic location more tempting? - Only if you have the kind of character to be influenced by such things. Many people are living/ at home in these romantic locations. Are we assuming just because of the location people living there necessarily are less committed to their partners - of course not. It's not the location, it's your personal values.

 

.

 

I do agree with you that your values shouldn't go on vacation, I am simply pointing out that when you are away from home, friends, family and whatever other people whose presence may influence your behavior, people tend to 'cut loose' in a way that they don't normally do. They loose their inhibitions and have a little more fun than they normally might allow themselves to. For example, I won't skinny-dip in my own tree-covered back yard, but I can't say it hasn't happened in one or two exotic, tropical locales. WHY? Because I KNEW my neighbour/father/co-worker wasn't going to suddenly appear on that beach as they could in my backyard...So I was shielded from the consequences that normally are enough to inhibit my behaviour.

 

When I am travelling, it often feels like my life here is like a dream. It's so far away, and I am so immersed in my current experience, that my real life almost doesn't seem real. Maybe that's just me. It doesn't have to be a 'romantic' location...just anywhere that's fundamentally different from my everyday life.

 

But sometimes, people let this get away from them, and baaad things happen..I'm not saying it justifies it, nor am I suggesting that any/everybody will. I have NEVER cheated, let alone while on vacation. But go peruse the Infidelity forum...How many times can you find the phrase "I never thought I'd do anything so stupid", or "I don't know what I was thinking". My point is, as Hex pointed out in a previous, hotly debated thread..ANYONE has the capacity to cheat. Yes, it is always a CHOICE, but we have all done things against our better judgement, things we KNEW we shouldn't be doing at some time or other. I'm just saying it's easier to let your own guard over your own values down, when your life is far away.

 

Sometimes, in choosing to uphold your own values, you choose not to put yourself in positions where you question your own ability to make the right choice. That doesn't dilute your morals. It doesn't make you a cheater. it makes you smart and realistic about your own weaknesses.

[Blue Spiral]

Let me start by saying that I agree with Hex 100%.

 

Don't get me wrong, such a trip would obviously be "dangerous"--but that's the point of committed relationships, right? That the commitment overcomes the temptation? To me, the Spain example proves that believe only believe in love to a point, and after that, realism kicks in. "My SO/spouse and I have said we love each other, or even said a vow, and it's Forever, and--wait, Spain? ? Hang on, all bets are off!"

 

To me, the issue is a combination of trust and status. The trust part is obvious, and I believe that the status part is what people have referred to as "respect." As in, "It won't look good if you do this! Don't disrespect me by making me look bad to my peers!" Let's be honest, Looking Good has a very high cache, and there comes a point where some people decide that their SO/spouse is threatening their own LG quota, and they decide that their relationship with their peer group is more important than their romantic relationship. Even if you know nothing is happening, they think it is, and you care more about what they think.

 

I recognize that there are shades of grey, but, if you only trust someone to a point, what's the point? If distance is enough to weaken your relationship, do you really have much of a relationship? To me, it's the worst of both worlds--just enough investment in things to make you feel like you can't give up, and just enough freedom to make you feel insecure.

 

I don't get it. But then, I've never been capable of jealousy...

[pumpkinmoon]

I would not be comfortable with this and if a boyfriend of mine wanted to go and went, I wouldn't be there when he got back.

 

It's not about trust, it's about crossing a boundary, and a very big one at that! I also think this girl should keep her nose out of your business when it concerns your relationship and she had absolutely no right asking a man who is in a commited relationship to take such a trip with her!

 

If she is having marital problems, I would suggest that she sort these out by taking her OWN husband away with her.

[camerainaction]

See I think there are more than two issues in this picture. For one thing I know I don't care about this peer status thing that you are talking about. Most of our mutual friends are his friends anyway so there is no need to put up appearances. I don't need other people to decide whether I should be happy with a situation or not. That's not the issue.

 

The respect that I am talking about here is not related to trust or appearance to peers. Call me an old fashioned person but I believe in respectful boundaries in a relationship, any relationship for that matter, romantic ones, ones with friends and families. I believe that certain boundaries exist naturally to help us behave responsibly. I make these boundaries for myself and I expect others that I love to have them as well.

 

I think all of us are looking for balances in relationships, consciously or subconsciously. It's human nature. Do unto others as they do to you. If I feel that I am carefully respecting boundaries when the other person is blatantly crossing them at all times then the balance has been upset.

 

I have long given up trying to change other's minds using my beliefs. It never works unless the other person truly wants the change. I understand fully that my boundaries may not be your boundaries, but for this relationship to work our definitions of boundaries should be at least somewhat close. Sure everything is a compromise but if you have too big of a gap to compromise on then you have to sacrifice your beliefs and still not meet in the middle.

That's the topic that I have been turning in my head lately.

 

I think I have already gone beyond why we don't understand each other, because he thinks the same way as you, and to him, my thoughts point to an insecure clingy perspective, and to me, his thoughts point to insanity and a certain disregard for human interaction rules of what is considered appropriate. I don't want to put any other labels on how he feels about it because I am not him. And where does that leave us? that i don't get him and he doesn't get me in return, and it disheartens me to realize how far apart we truly are....it is like they say, that the greatest distance is the distance between two people. :sad:

[Puddincup]

I was in a similar situation where I wanted to go away for a weekend with a male friend who I had no interest in whatsoever, but my bf at the time felt insecure about it and told me no. Actually he was flabbergasted that I even wanted to go. I felt like if I wanted to be sneaky about it, I wouldn't have even told him about it. It caused a big crack in our relationship. In the end, I didn't go because I didn't want to upset my BF but I couldn't figure out why he didn't trust me. I knew my intentions were honorable and I didn't like that he immediately assumed that I would do something wrong as soon as his back was turned.

[pl3asehelp]

If I'm dishonest. If I'm lazy. If I'm abusive. If I don't try to accomplish my best at everything I do in my life. Those things are absolutely legitimate.

 

I would definitely feel like I was in jail, not to mention way overstressed if I felt I could never be lazy or do less than my best at something. Hell, my entire career is one big 'less than my best', but it pays the bills so I can support my wife and kids, so I keep showing up every day. There are lots of things where I feel like it's a total waste of my time to do my best at them. I have other priorities, I can't and have no interest in doing my best at every crappy thing I have to do in life. In fact, I'd say I'm so busy that I only do my best at like one or two things in my life, just my very highest priorities, mostly family related. And man, you know, lots of nights I get home from work and don't feel like cooking some big elaborate dinner for the family. So what do I do? Throw a few hotdogs on the gas grill and open a bag of chips. Lazy. Not my best. Thank god I get patience, understanding, and support from my wife and not judgemental condemnation when I want to be lazy or give less than my best to so many things. So I personally feel that to expect your partner to not by lazy and to accomplish their best at everything they do in life is irrational and illegitimate with regard to my values.

[camerainaction]

I was in a similar situation where I wanted to go away for a weekend with a male friend who I had no interest in whatsoever, but my bf at the time felt insecure about it and told me no. Actually he was flabbergasted that I even wanted to go. I felt like if I wanted to be sneaky about it, I wouldn't have even told him about it. It caused a big crack in our relationship. In the end, I didn't go because I didn't want to upset my BF but I couldn't figure out why he didn't trust me. I knew my intentions were honorable and I didn't like that he immediately assumed that I would do something wrong as soon as his back was turned.

 

I have a perspective on this. I was in a long term relationship when I was a bit younger. I dated a man for 4.5 years and he was crazy about me and I thought I loved him the same way too. I used to have a good friend in college who I hung out with all the time. We lived in the same dorm so we would cook/eat/do other stuff together. Granted we never went on any exotic trips by ourselves but ocasionally my bf at the time would tell me that he thinks we were too close. At the time I remember having a big problem with him even bringing it up and I chalked it up to him having security issues.

Less than a year after I graduated from college I realized that I really wasn't nearly as crazy about him as he was about me and we broke up.

 

I guess the point of that is, to me, the reciprocacy of what is acceptable is largely dependent upon the level of affection. At that time I thought I was just a free spirit, an independent woman and I wouldn't care if my man wanted to take a trip with a female friend or not. But fast forward four and half years now I do care. My feelings have changed because my feelings toward these two men are different. I think when you are really crazy about someone you really watch your boundaries, you want to be careful with them, you don't want to have to upset the balance, you are not necessarily doing these to not piss the other person off but you are doing it because you feel that it helps keep the bond strong. I didn't feel the same way about my ex because I didn't care as much as he did to worry about these things.

 

I do want to ask, did you end up staying with this man? Did he also go on trips with his female friends? If he did, would you have even cared.

[greywolf]

So he asked you if you were ok with it, and then got upset when you told him that you weren't? What was the point of asking?

[camerainaction]

So he asked you if you were ok with it, and then got upset when you told him that you weren't? What was the point of asking?

 

He asked with the hope that just by some off chance that I would be ok with it, he would be booking that flight in the next minute.

[greywolf]

He asked with the hope that just by some off chance that I would be ok with it, he would be booking that flight in the next minute.

 

If he was so deadset on going, then he shouldn't have asked.

 

I'm not sure how I would feel in your situation. I'm not the jealous type, but what strikes me as a little odd here is that if he and this girl are such close friends, why don't you know her that well?

 

I don't expect to be bff with every single one of my boyfriend's friends, but I at least want some sort of friendship with them as well.

 

So if it was a girl that I had met and spent a fair amount of time with, I'd be perfectly fine with it. If it was someone I didn't know well, I'd be uncomfortable with the situation.

[greywolf]

Then you are out of the mainstream here with people who believe in monogamous relationships. That's fine if that is your belief but there are few people who will agree that a committed relationship is a prison.

 

I don't think hex is trying to say a committed relationship is a prison. I believe what he's trying to say is that when you put restrictions on what your partner can and cannot do, then it becomes a prison.

 

For the most part, I agree, although I have hang-ups on certain things as well. I don't expect that my bf will never think about wanting to hook up with another woman, or will never sleep with someone else, or will never break up with me. But I do trust him to do his absolutely best not to hurt me.

 

That may change if i was married and I had children (because then it's not just about the two of us), but so far that's what I believe.

[camerainaction]

If he was so deadset on going, then he shouldn't have asked.

 

I'm not sure how I would feel in your situation. I'm not the jealous type, but what strikes me as a little odd here is that if he and this girl are such close friends, why don't you know her that well?

 

I don't expect to be bff with every single one of my boyfriend's friends, but I at least want some sort of friendship with them as well.

 

So if it was a girl that I had met and spent a fair amount of time with, I'd be perfectly fine with it. If it was someone I didn't know well, I'd be uncomfortable with the situation.

 

I don't have that much in common with her. We do get along for the most part but frankly after the whole shoe-stealing and propositioning a friend for sex fiascos I feel like we are quite far in terms of our values and beliefs in what are considered acceptable. We have distanced quite a bit. There has been a few instances in the past year and nine months when I felt like she had stepped out the line and had voiced my concerns to my bf. I suspect that my bf, being the good friend to her that he is, has transferred to her everything I have said to him.