BF Wants to Take Long Weekend Trip with Female Friend

[Lucius]

I take what you are saying and in theory it sounds fine. But three days in a fairly exotic location, with sun, alcohol and redolent with most everyone else having fun with their romantic partners (or trying to) while sharing a bedroom with a person of the opposite sex is pushing the envelope of trust a little too far for most people to be able to handle.

 

I can respect that. As I say, the OP is not being unreasonable. But for me, if my partner didn't want to be loyal to me even under those conditions, then I wouldn't want her. It's not that I demand that she go test herself, I just wouldn't stop her from doing something that she (a bright and loyal person) would want to do.

[NightLily]

There were many really good points made here already. Two that really stuck out to me is that he is putting you in the nagging (mommy) position and his friend is not in support of your relationship. I would kind of think he would be upset at her for trash talking you.

 

But regardless, she does so and then you don't overhear it.. he reports it to you! Like: "Hey guess what eveeeerybody thinks you are jealous so you HAVE to let me go!" I don't know how this relationship is otherwise but this guy comes off as sorta juvenile.

 

This shouldn't be an issue of you letting or not letting him go. It should be an issue of if you are comfortable with it. If you aren't, considering the situation I would expect for him to either not go or alter the plans.

 

That being said, you could suggest he gets his own hotel room. That is a compromise, takes nothing away from his experience on the trip, and should be something he is willing to do. There should be hotels or even hostels around there that don't cost an arm and a leg so if he starts to complain about the money, that would seem a little.. well, unnerving.

 

Even so if he wants to cheat he can. I'd be asking myself at this point if you are simply *trying* to trust him because deep down you know something is up. Or, do you genuinely, effortlessy know this is a guy who is true to you and it is really just the nature of the trip. I have found out you shouldn't have to force yourself to trust somebody. Sometimes your gut is right. Just think over it.

[BeFree]

I understand where you're coming from completely, OP. For me, I'd allow my partner to go somewhere with a friend of the opposite sex, but definitely not under the parameters you're partner set. I think what also matters is the dynamic between the two people. If it was one of his friends that I knew had no interest (or that was not attracted to my partner at all) I'd be more likely to be enthusiastic and urge him to go. If it were a girl I didn't trust on the other hand, I'd be more upset. This is kind of where you're situation is at. You know the woman inviting him to go is not trustworthy and quite honestly just not a good person if she's involving herself in this (more that a friendship) situation.

 

What really bothers me isn't even the possibility for him to sleep with her. Sure there's that opportunity, but that's kind of where trust (and the test of trust) comes in. What bothers me more is that he wants to be in a intimate setting (sharing a hotel room alone with her, traveling around sight-seeing alone with her, drinking, partying etc. alone with her) with her, rather than you. If he REALLY loved you, really wanted to be with you, he wouldn't want to do this with another woman. It would be uncomfortable for him because he'd only want to share this setting with you.

[camerainaction]

Thanks everyone for your time and thoughts.

I have thought this over. In all honesty, I do trust my boyfriend and he has been pretty open with me. For those of you who asked if I can go along, it wouldn't be ideal because I am not a US citizen and it doesn't make sense for me to do short international trips as I have to get my return visa from a US Embassy and would have to take an extra day and a detour to a bigger city (one that has a US embassy) just for that. Of course this girl didn't invite me at all so that wasn't part of the consideration.

 

I think after all these discussions and talks about it, my boyfriend has decided to let the idea go. Of course it doesn't mean that he understands where I am coming from. I doubt he will bring this up again due to how upset it made me. I do have a pretty good idea, however, that it will come up again in the future, with another trip, and the same woman. Next time he will prob get a little smarter to prep me better and not just blurt it out in an email.

 

Fundamentally, the problem is that we have very different ideas of what are considered acceptable behaviors in a relationship (outside of cheating, which is never ok in either of our books), and that problem prob won't go away. My boyfriend is a very blunt, binary, and opinionated person. He is thankfully very loyal, but that means he is also extremely loyal to his close friends. Those are his most noticeable traits. I remember one particular weekend he had wanted to visit an old friend in another state. It was an 8 hour drive and I couldn't make it that weekend or the two weekends after. I suggested going at a later date (one month later). Even though there was no urgency in this trip at all, he still went by himself at the pre-determined date. It bothered me a great deal. When we talked about it, he said this is who he is. He would love me to go on trips with him but if there is a trip that he is excited about and i can't make it for whatever reason, he will not think twice before going by himself. In his mind, it is not an indication of anything inconsiderate or offensive. It would just be him doing his own things every once in a while. I used to feel like he only does this because he didn't care enough about me. If I were him and I really cared about my significant other, I would want to naturally delay the trip so he could go with me. And if I didn't feel like it, it would be an indication that I truly don't care THAT much about the person. I used to measure him with this standard but then I realized it wasn't necessarily true. He doesn't think the same way at all, and it may not have been an indication of anything that serious.

 

I have come to accept most of his quirks like these, but the existence of this particular woman has really highlighted on our difference. Unfortunately that is something that will prob never go away, esp considering they were very close friends at some point in their lives and that will be a state of mind that he could probably never shake.

 

I have a few thoughts about the future. I don't want to rush into any decisions. We do love each other and I can tell that he genuinely cares in his strange ways. I have been developing alot of outside interests of my own, going to classes outside of work, taking up photography and exercising regularly. I have been thinking that the only way to truly tell if someone genuinely cares is by backing away, giving them all the freedom they think they need to be who they claim to be, and if after I have backed away and developed a fuller life outside of him, he still behaves like a headstrong child and doesn't show initiatives to take more responsibilities to foster the relationship, then I will have my definite answer.

[pumpkinmoon]

Even if his ideas are different to yours I still think a compromise has to be made. Like with things like this. If you are uncomfortable with him going, he should understand that you are and not go even though he sees nothing wrong with it. Now if you were being unreasonable I could see his point, but a lot, i'd even say the majority of people out there would be uncomfortable with something like this.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

Compromise like that leads to resentment over time and unfortunately, a lot of infidelity starts that way. He is compromising to keep her happy but he isn't happy. Hopefully this won't be the case for the OP.

[anggrace]

" I have been thinking that the only way to truly tell if someone genuinely cares is by backing away, giving them all the freedom they think they need to be who they claim to be, and if after I have backed away and developed a fuller life outside of him, he still behaves like a headstrong child and doesn't show initiatives to take more responsibilities to foster the relationship, then I will have my definite answer. "

 

I don't think it's ever healthy in a relationship to tell someone what they can or can't do. As you said, let him be who he is. If who he is doesn't agree with who you are, let him go. Marriage won't work. You both should have similar ideas of what kind of boundries you want in the relationship and it doesn't sound like you do.

 

Like others have mentioned, he is very likely going to resent you for this. If I were you, I would just yell him how you feel about it, give him the option to go, and if he chooses to, despite your feelings, leave him.

[hexaemeron]

Even if his ideas are different to yours I still think a compromise has to be made. Like with things like this. If you are uncomfortable with him going, he should understand that you are and not go even though he sees nothing wrong with it. Now if you were being unreasonable I could see his point, but a lot, i'd even say the majority of people out there would be uncomfortable with something like this.

 

See, that's not a compromise. That's giving her everything she wants. A compromise is where BOTH people give up something and get something in return.

[Miss Firecracker]

If she compromises in this situation, I call it turning a blind eye to philandering.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

See, that's not a compromise. That's giving her everything she wants. A compromise is where BOTH people give up something and get something in return.

 

Agreed. I don't necessarily believe that she should accept everything he wants to do in the name of trusting him if she doesn't feel right about it, but she should not be deciding what he can and cannot do.

 

If my boyfriend held an important belief far different from mine, I would have to accept that and decide if I could stay with him. End of story. I cannot change him or hold him back, it will only backfire. Having to clip yourself down to keep your partner happy will never result in good.

[NightLily]

Agreed. I don't necessarily believe that she should accept everything he wants to do in the name of trusting him if she doesn't feel right about it, but she should not be deciding what he can and cannot do.

 

If my boyfriend held an important belief far different from mine, I would have to accept that and decide if I could stay with him. End of story. I cannot change him or hold him back, it will only backfire. Having to clip yourself down to keep your partner happy will never result in good.

 

I don't see why it would be a big deal though to suggest separate rooms. It shouldn't effect his happiness. Also, a lot of hotel rooms don't have two beds.. :S

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I don't see why it would be a big deal though to suggest separate rooms. It shouldn't effect his happiness. Also, a lot of hotel rooms don't have two beds..

 

Ya, I can definitely see that point and I don't think requesting that is rude or out of line... but really, even in two different rooms they are away together in an exotic location far away likely getting hammered and doing a ton of bonding. It seems likely he would find his way back to her room, regardless.

 

 

The fact it would have been just the two of them is REALLY strange and seems like an obvious set up, to me.

[FarthestEdge]

As a previous poster said - he isn't likely to admit it if he did cheat.

 

Well, first off, the friend admitted to her husband the last time she stepped out of line, and nothing came of it. So there's less deterrent on her part, and she (the 'friend') seems to like a bit of drama around her, so if he didn't tell, she likely would.

 

Secondly, while it's true that he may not tell, the OP would likely know based on his behavior when he returned. Alternatively if he could cheat on her in Spain and hide it, he could cheat on her at home & hide it. So we're back to square one- the OP has to make a decision as to whether or not she chooses to trust him in the absence of any evidence to suggest otherwise.....

 

It's not an easy situation, but I think at this point, whether or not he goes, the damage to their relationship has been done. A major crack in the foundation has been exposed...The OP realises this, because it comes down to a fundamental difference of opinion about what is appropriate in a LTR. She has a lot to think about that goes beyond this weekend.

[DN]

Secondly, while it's true that he may not tell, the OP would likely know based on his behavior when he returned.

What behaviour would that be?

 

Thousands of people cheat on their spouses for months and years without being found out.

[sophie274]

What behaviour would that be?

 

Thousands of people cheat on their spouses for months and years without being found out.

 

I completely agree. Turned out that my most recent ex cheated on me, and I would never have known if the girl had not been so pleased with herself as to start telling people I was friends with. (We broke up before I found out.) Oh, and my ex-boyfriend who I thought would never ever ever do something like this lied repeatedly to me about it once I started having suspicions - because of rumors I'd heard - swearing up and down he would never do something like that to me, when actually what he meant was "Yes Sophie actually I DID do something like that to you." It seems like most who go so far as to physically cheat on their partner deny deny deny until it's not longer possible. Since the OP's boyfriend has already told her that he believes she is being insecure and distrustful in this situation, any suspicions about his behavior when he gets back could get the same line. When you suspect cheating and your partner denies and tell you YOU are being delusional or insecure, everything can become very fuzzy very fast, and it's very difficult to make either heads or tails of it.

 

I don't really buy this idea of letting him go as a test of the relationship. They are not unhappy now (except for this issue) - it is normal, IMO, for her to want to protect the relationship from unnecessary strain and temptation, rather than expose the relationship to those kinds of pressures to see exactly how much it can withstand. Personally, I consider part of my "job" when I'm in a relationship to be vigilant and protective of what my boyfriend and I are nurturing, and to avoid strain on the relationship if possible.

 

camerainaction, I'm quite surprised to hear you are in the US. I'd assumed you were in England because of the long week-end in Spain bit. I assume your boyfriend will be paying close to a thousand dollars in airfare since he must be booking the ticket pretty last minute. You mentioned earlier he wanted to piggyback on her trip because it would be cheap, but a thousand dollars or so is a lot to spend on a short week-end, even if it would have been more with a hotel. Is the situation as it stands that he has decided not to go, or are you two still going back and forth?

[FarthestEdge]

Did your ex have to go to Spain to do this? No. And that's my point. If he IS a cheating guy, and this 'friend' has her eye set on him, it will happen whether it's here or there. It then becomes a question of 'when' not 'if'.

 

Look I totally get the 'playing with fire' angle, I do. I just think that by telling him he's NOT ALLOWED to go, the OP will do an equal amount of damage to the relationship in a different way. He is going to resent that he missed this opportunity for no other reason than the OP's inability to trust him. IF he knows he wouldn't cheat, it's offensive to him. If he knows he WOULD cheat, it's just delaying the inevitable. I'm not proposing she let him go as a 'test'. I suggested that if she's ready to end the relationship over this issue BEFORE he's done anything wrong, she might want to give him the benefit of the doubt for 4 days and hope he loves her enough to not blow it. Will she know for sure if he does? I can't say, because we are ALL running on faith that our partners are honest with us. I don't see how this situation is any different.

 

Anyone of us could be cheated on at any time. I believe DH is at work, but who knows? All we have is faith, and trying to control our partners like irresponsible children in the long run builds resentment, and can even backfire. If he chooses of his own free will that he doesnt' want to go, that's one thing. But if he acquieces just because she's made a big issue out of it, she's just handed this 'friend' ammunition (IF the friend wants him) and is standing against a firing wall...

[DN]

I don't think the Op did tell him he wasn't allowed to go unless I misread something. But she made it very clear she would be upset about it and that is a very different thing.

[FarthestEdge]

That's true DN.

 

Like I said earlier, I think the issue itself has opened a Pandoras Box on their relationship. I think the OP is right to consider whether they have a future when they see this issue from such fundamentally different angles.

 

I see both sides, both have their merits and risks. But the truth seems to be that the underlying issue will remain, regardless of the decisions made in this situation.

 

However, the OP seems to have moved on, so we may all be flogging a dead horse here...

[karvala]

IF he knows he wouldn't cheat, it's offensive to him. If he knows he WOULD cheat, it's just delaying the inevitable.

 

I don't think it's at all offensive if he knows he wouldn't cheat. I've never cheated and I have absolutely no intention of ever cheating on my gf. Would I be offended if she objected to me sharing a bedroom with another woman on a nice romantic trip? Of course not; her reservations would be entirely understandable to me.

 

Similarly, I don't agree, and more importantly the evidence does not agree, with the assertion that if someone is going to cheat, they'll do so regardless of circumstances. Circumstances play a huge role in cheating. If you don't believe me, look at the infidelity forum, which is littered with people who did not set out with the intention of cheating, but stumbled into it in a moment of (often drunken) weakness where an opportunity was present. If an opportunity hadn't been present at that moment, they wouldn't have done it; it's not as though they were determined to cheat and they couldn't that time, they'd find another time to do it. Cheating rarely works like that in practice, which is why opportunity is the number one factor in cheating. To ignore as a factor is to wantonly endanger your relationship.

[hexaemeron]

The bolded could be applied to ANY situation, though. My partner goes to Spain and shares a room with someone. My partner goes to the grocery store and the checkout lady hits on him. My partner stays at home while I'm at work and __________. Again, I have to say, it seems like most people want an unreasonable and unachievable amount of security and are willing to put the other person through the ringer for it.

 

 

"I could care less how you feel, as long as *I* feel secure."

[FarthestEdge]

Point taken, but it is such an individual thing. Some couples would be perfectly fine with this, they are, after all "just friends" and I don't think that just because a man and a woman are in a room together, that it's a foregone conclusion that they WILL sleep together. I can see that this 'friend' is a bit of a going concern, but what I haven't seen is any indication that HE is the least bit interested in her.

 

We don't know HIM

We don't know the 'friend'

We don't 'know' the OP

 

So it's a really, really tough call. MY DH would be offended, as I would be if we didn't trust each other in a similar circumstance. Especially if it was with one of our long term friends. We simply don't see our friends that way, and well, to be blunt, if either of us WERE going to cheat, it wouldn't be with ANY of our friends...

 

My point about 'here or there' refers to whether or not she could tell he was lying. If he could convincingly lie, he can do that regardless of WHERE the infidelity took place.

 

Like I said, I see both sides. My POV is driven more by what I believe I would do when faced with a similar circumstance. But I am not married to the OP's boyfriend, nor do I know what HER history has taught her.

 

At the end of the day though, I question the long-term viability of this relationship, primarily based on the fact that HE sees NOTHING WRONG with the scenario, while she sees EVERYTHING WRONG with it. Situations like this will continue to present themselves over time. If they can't agree on a middle ground of what's appropriate, he is going to feel controlled, or she is going to feel betrayed, and most likely both.

[sophie274]

I meant my post to be coming from the angle that several posters have been telling the OP to "let" the boyfriend go to Spain, and that she'll KNOW if he did - and I wanted to share that it's actually pretty darn hard to know whether or not your boyfriend cheated!

 

But just for the record, my ex did not need to go to Spain to cheat on me, but he did need:

- for me to be long-distance from him

- for him to continue to speak with a girl who did not respect our relationship boundaries and persistently behaved in a way that was completely inappropriate

- for him to get drunk with her and walk her home.

I wouldn't say he's a "cheating type of guy" at all. He shows absolutely no traits of being a serial cheater or the "type" to do this either once or multiple times. I do not think it was inevitable at all - and almost everything we know about cheating disproves the "inevitability" hypothesis - MOST cheaters cheat because an opportunity presents itself, and then the circumstances are just right. That's why so many say "it just happened" - not that I have any sympathy. It's ludicrous to say that someone can cheat at the grocery store just as easily as in a hotel room in Spain with a friend, because that's just absolutely not true. In my ex's case, IMO, he played with fire, dismissed my concerns about this girl, and what happened happened. I broke up with him before I knew he had cheated, so in many ways it's irrelevant, but I can tell you that I wish with all my heart that he had never cheated on me because it made (and sometimes still makes) me feel like absolute doo-doo, so this idea of letting your partner test himself makes no sense to me. It's awfully easy to say "well if he cheats he cheats and then you'll know", but the fact is that being cheated on is something that's pretty hard to go through, and that most people would rather avoid, so it seems pretty casual to go with a "que sera, sera" approach.

 

Anyway, enough about me.

 

As I said earlier, I agree with everything karvala said about circumstance and opportunity - I've read many times that opportunity is the number one factor leading to infidelity and I absolutely believe it. So in that case there's no such thing as "he knows he wouldn't cheat" or "he knows that he would" - I think most people who cheat never thought they would do it before they actually go through with it, and are often quite shocked at what they've done.

 

For the record, I think it's perfectly possible to go to Spain with your female friend and not hook up with her. I just think you sometimes give up some things you want to do to make your partner feel comfortable - and particularly, in this scenario, when your partner has good reason to be uncomfortable, namely:

- you want to share a room with an attractive female friend

- she has a history of trying to hook up with friends' husbands

- her marriage is on the rocks

- the partner and this friend have a history of complaining about YOU - the pattern of the boyfriend venting to the friend about how much of a tyrant the gf is, and the friend commiserating is, to me, quite troublesome. I would never ever try to stoke an argument between a good friend of mine and his girlfriend in the way that this woman has (saying that the girlfriend is so unreasonable etc)

There's also trust and there's what's appropriate. I still think there are some things you just don't do in a relationship, regardless of whether anything is going to happen. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of respect for your partner. For example, I have a male best friend whom I absolutely love to death, but whom I have zero romantic feelings for. When he comes to visit he, he could sleep in my bed, since it's a big bed and there's no other place to stay. Would anything happen? I can confidently say absolutely not. Should his girlfriend be ok with this? I certainly don't think so. To me, it's the kind of thing you just don't do when you're dating someone else.

 

It sounds to me like he has chosen he won't go of his own free will (she's hardly confiscated his passport!), but is clearly unhappy about it. As karvala said, it's really a matter of semantics whether you "express that you don't want him to go, and will be very upset if he does, but hey, choice is up to him" and "i don't want you to go".

 

And I'd also like to add that the OP is hardly depriving him of the opportunity of a lifetime. It's hardly particularly convenient for him to go visit the friend there over the week-end - in fact, the added cost of the last-minute flight, which will be close a $1000 now, will far outweigh his hotel savings. And Spain will be there for the foreseeable future - knock on wood. I would be upset with my boyfriend if I had the opportunity of a lifetime to meet my idol and role model, or to travel to a place that was usually inaccessible. I guess I can just really easily put myself in the boyfriend's shoes, since I have many close male friends, and feel as though in that situation I might be disappointed that my boyfriend was not ok with the trip, because I love Spain and love to travel, but wouldn't make a big deal of it because I could understand his concerns.

[Angel_325]

You would not be the first person to say those words to me, DN. Besides, it's different.

 

I'm saying that if the OP says she trusts her boyfriend, then TRUST the BOYFRIEND. I think it's hypocritical and facile to say out of one side of your mouth "Oh, sure I totally trust you" and then when a situation arises where that currency of trust could be used positively, "Oh, no I really don't trust you."

 

Either you do, or you don't. Pick one and stay there.

 

It's not about trust to me. It's about appropriate boundaries. Just because you trust your boyfriend does not mean you should be okay with this situation. You may trust that nothing will happen, but there are some boundaries that should not be crossed. Also, sometimes temptation gets the best of people and good people can get in bad situations. If you avoid the temptation, you avoid the situation. Yes, there is temptation all around us, but putting yourself in a situation where you do not need to be is not right. I think most people would not consider what her boyfriend wants to be appropriate.

 

My boyfriend has a female friend who used to stay over at his place (nothing ever happened because he was not interested in her) so when he and I started dating she asked him if she could continue to stay over when she visits since she lives a couple of hours away. He asked me what I thought about it and if I was okay with it. I said no and he respected that decision and said that he completely understood why I would feel it's appropriated, even though nothing has ever happened between them. This girl also happens to have had (perhaps still has) a big crush on my boyfriend and he knows and that is another reason he agreed that it would not be appropriate. He respected my decision and did not think that it was a trust issue. It was a respect issue.

[FathomFear]

My boyfriend has a female friend who used to stay over at his place (nothing ever happened because he was not interested in her) so when he and I started dating she asked him if she could continue to stay over when she visits since she lives a couple of hours away. He asked me what I thought about it and if I was okay with it. I said no and he respected that decision and said that he completely understood why I would feel it's appropriated, even though nothing has ever happened between them. This girl also happens to have had (perhaps still has) a big crush on my boyfriend and he knows and that is another reason he agreed that it would not be appropriate. He respected my decision and did not think that it was a trust issue. It was a respect issue.

 

Well, honestly, as I see it, it's a "respect" issue only to the extent that you're asking your partner to "respect" the fact that you don't trust him.

 

Trust is about trust. If you trust your partner not to break a commitment to monogamy, that trust should be there regardless of the circumstances. If you don't want your partner sleeping in the same apartment as another female friend, you're essentially saying that you don't trust his ability to keep his commitment towards you in that context. There's really no way to sugar coat it.

 

IMO, I don't understand the desire to police your partner's activities such that you restrict their mobility or dictate who does or not does interact with them, almost as if need to weed out potential "dangers".

 

If I were dating a guy and he told me that a friend wanted to stay over at his apartment for the weekend, I'm not going to dictate how he should handle the situation. How he should handle the situation should be entirely, 100% in his court. If we were practicing monogamy and he felt that he could not resist the temptation to cheat, it would be up to him to turn his friend down. Alternatively, if he felt that it wasn't an issue I would expect him to welcome his friend with open arms. For me to dictate the situation in any way and intervene would be completely disrespectful to my partner's ability to run his own life.

[FarthestEdge]

See, to me, this may be unnecessary. If something was going to happen between them, it would have happened before you came on the scene. SHE respected your relationship enough to ask, and didn't just assume, HE respected you enough to ask.

 

But you saying "no" did not show them any respect, IMO. I think they had both already shown that a) there was nothing between them (even when he WAS single) and b) they respected you and your relationship.. To me, this is exactly what I would want to see, to be completely comfortable with the situation.. To know that our relationship was respected by all involved.

 

Fair enough that he made the decision to not continue, but he did so because YOU said no. If he had decided on his own that it was no longer appropriate, then I'd say it was respect. But when you are the one telling him what he can and can't do in his own home, even though he opened the door by asking, you blurr the lines between showing respect, and following the rules.

 

Respect does not equal doing whatever your partner wants you do do to make them feel secure in the relationship.

 

I don't think this issue is black and white...but varying shades of gray.