Celadon

I guess I see what you're saying. Although in the past I have been a good listener (and was criticized by an ex for not saying enough, ironically), I think sometimes I "check out" mentally as well. If I don't have the patience to listen to the 'center of attention' person, I just don't. Instead perhaps I should try harder to connect, although that gets frustrating because sometimes I'm not LOUD ENOUGH (in more ways than one) to fully get people's attention. I'm not one to fight my way into a conversation (some people really want to be included; I feel that's too much effort). And that's been part of the problem, I guess. That does make sense, Batya. While the "center" person conveys to the group, "I AM CONFIDENT," by the way they are acting, perhaps the person with the good listening skills can be perceived the same way by remaining engaged at all times. I never thought of it that way. Uh, yeah, that would be me. Impressive! Thanks for the advice. It's really helpful.

Thanks for the perspective, bulletproof. Glad I'm not the only person here intolerant by nature. And also glad to hear you've overcome those tendencies. Gives me hope!

Hey teardrops! I think you're afraid because when you WERE the real you (back in elementary school) you were picked apart for it. So you sort of took control over the situation by dressing badly, knowing that if they tease you, it's not the REAL you. I can see how, now, it has become a problem. I've never been the most fashionable person either, possibly for some of the same reasons (what you said about not attracting men -- I used to be the same way). Also, I lacked knowledge of how to apply make-up, and what tops go with what pants, etc. I would suggest a couple of things that have helped me: * Find a friend who is more stylish than you are. A girl who wears makeup well and who you feel comfortable asking for advice from. Or a girl who loves to shop for clothes (hopefully that means she's up on fashion). Ask her to give you tips, or suggest ways to improve your look. * DO read fashion or teen magazines with lots of beauty and fashion tips. You'll get a sense of what you like and what you don't. The key to becoming the real you is to (a) know what some of your options are and (b) choose the ones you feel comfortable with. Also, GET RID of the sloppy clothing you wear. If you don't have 'em, you can't wear 'em. GO and buy new clothes and wear them. Here's a reason for doing all of this, if not for yourself. People like to be with people who are pleasant-looking; it just makes them comfortable. People want to hang out with people in whom they see their best selves reflected. When you're with someone who doesn't care about their appearance, it doesn't make you feel that good. When you're with someone who is dressed well, it lifts you up. You can be that uplifting person, just by taking care of yourself a little better. It DOES take awhile to get rid of bad habits, so take things a baby step at a time, and within months, you'll be a new you! Good luck!

Thanks for the reply, Batya. That was very enlightening, as I usually equate social skills with being able to get what you want out of a social situation -- rather than skills to get along socially (i.e. do what's appropriate). Let me ask you a question then: Do you ever find yourself wanting to be more involved as a talker and not just a listener? Do you want to be in the center sometimes? And if you do, what then? Thanks again.

For those of you with better social skills than me I'd like to get your advice on how to handle a certain social situation. What do you do when you enter a group and there's clearly one person who is dominant? You want to join in. How do you get a word in edgewise, or how do you shift the attention from that person? My problem is that I resent domineering behavior. Often, the dominant person says the same things I would say, but they have the floor. I get so annoyed. For good or bad, it makes me feel competitive. And that makes me go silent, for fear that if I open my mouth I'll say something nasty. For example, today I joined a group of four people and one of the women kept asserting herself and her opinions and her wants. I sat there thinking, "Enough of you, already!" But I was the only one who felt that way, apparently. Everyone else was going along with her, mostly because she was making them feel included (but she was not addressing me). How do I *skillfully* and positively get what I want? I want to feel like I am part of the group. And sometimes, I'd even like to be in the center of the group. Thanks!

Yeah, or they get a look on their face and say something like, "My ex used to do that all the time..." !

I completely agree. Any accomplishment is made in baby steps. But it helps to know what direction you want to walk. What should you accomplish by 26? I don't know. There's no set standard. For me, 26 came and went. I was working in retail at the time, trying to figure out what to do with my life! Eventually I went back to school and now I'm in a career I like (most of the time). And it pays the bills. And I can tell people my job without looking at the ground and shuffling my feet. You probably would be wise to explore possible career paths at this point. Go to a career center or take those "interest inventory" tests to find out what you (a) like to do and (b) are skilled at and © could do as a career. Personally, I LOVED this stage of life because, heck, you're just starting out and there's no pressure! It's all exploration, man! I changed my mind four times to get where I am now. No problem. I just made sure I enjoyed what I was doing at the time. It takes patience to get somewhere. If you're thinking, "I need to be in a fantastic job six months from now," well, you might be setting yourself up for frustration. Set a realistic six-month goal -- "I'll have decided what career I want to explore and I will enroll in several classes to see if I like it." That way, it's do-able and you'll experience a feeling of success as you go along. Also, a little perspective: 26 is not that old. Take it from someone who wishes she were that young again!

See, I find this very interesting. I'm one of those people who thinks more about why I'm different from someone else, rather than what we have in common. And you know, that's left me feeling very lonely at times! I sometimes think I could use Friendship 101 lessons, lol. I would love to be the kind of person who can talk with anyone about anything. And yet, it is sometimes people's habits that annoy me, such as someone who just can't shut up! I know two women like that, who just talk about themselves on and on and on. It's not that I don't ever like them, but I don't see myself becoming close to them. Another example: I have some stuff in common with a co-worker, but I spend more time thinking about how he's slacking off rather than trying to talk with him about our mutual hobbies. Why is that?????

Hi Lily! Good to see you again too. Yeah, it's been awhile since I posted regularly here. Too much craziness going on in life, I guess. I think you made the right decision on the guy. If he's not on the same wavelength, it'll just become more and more obvious as time goes on. That would have hurt. Tony, hope your date went well. I'm a fan of taking things slowly, so that both people know they're in the relationship for the right reasons (because they like the other person, not just because they want to be in a relationship).

That's a really good point, Fisch. I have had a problem with constancy, esepcially if I'm stressed out, because then i go for the easiest thing to do (watch TV, surf the Internet). Maybe instead I should just calm down first, then I can make a decision on what to do (something of more value). I just read an article on ENA that said there is PLENTY of time to do what you need to do. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not, but her point is that if it IS important enough to you, then you will rearrange your schedule to fit it in. I still think I need to accept the fact that I won't be able to do everything. I have a hard time with that one, because I like to go in depth in everything. If I could spend the next 10 years just doing one thing, I'd be happy. Then I'd move onto the next thing. I heard about a guy once who chose a "topic of the year." He would choose something to learn about and then just do that in his free time all year. The next year, he'd choose a different topic. I don't know, it sounds good, but it makes me nervous to only do one thing because -- honestly -- part of my brain will be asking, "HEY, aren't you missing out on X, Y or Z?"

Thanks for the input, both of you. You make a lot of sense. Thinking about it more, I guess in (bad) rebound relationships, one person will be in it primarily out of fear of being alone. Hopefully, that kind of attitude will be detected at some point. My concern is that it's hard from the outset to see if someone's *really* sorted himself or herself out, as in having learned something about him/herself from the relationship. Seems to me if there isn't some "down time" between relationships, a person could simply repeat the problems of the past. Like, if anger was a problem, the guy/gal might not address it, thinking it might be easier to get into a new relationship (and magically all the old problems will disappear!). (Not.) Anyway, just thinking out loud here...

I think the hard thing is that we don't want to do EVERYTHING alone. And not having the option to be with *someone* during the weekend (or weeknights) can really take the wind out of a person's sail. Reflecting on this weekend, I did a bunch of stuff by myself. Stayed home and caught up on bookkeeping. Shopped. Took a walk in the park. Watched a TV show on the Internet. Read. Listened to music. BUT ... I also got together with family for dinner, and spent time with a friend. In life, we need some balance of social time and alone time. Too much of either will leave us stressed, I think.

That is a very good point!

Maybe you could practice social success in your mind. If you had a great conversation with someone new, what would that look like? What would you say? How would you feel? Sometimes when I'm intimidated, it's because I fear the worst or I'm not prepared and don't know what to do or what's expected of me. Preparation and practicing, especially in your own mind, helps. Also, it sounds like you are taking this personally and that you are particularly sensitive. I understand that. But to tell you the truth, often social interactions are more formula than personal. Does that make sense? Person A walks towards person B and says, "Hi. how's it going?" and person B says, "Great, how're you?" and Person A says, "Fine." And then they're done. Both Person A and Person B may NOT be fine, but they're just going through the usual social ritual. The good thing about that is there IS no judgment on you. You're just doing the regular routine, right? Likewise, I heard a guy say recently that the key to starting a conversation is to keep things light and superficial -- almost trivial. Why do you think people talk about the weather so much at first? If you talk about something that's not threatening to either of you (In line at your dorm cafeteria: "Well, another day, another hamburger...") you can then move on to talking about you or the other person: "So what do you usually get here?" In other words, you CAN protect yourself from unpleasant social situations and feeling judged by keeping conversations light and not sharing much meaningful personal information until you know/trust the person. Hope that helps!

Yes, and there is the natural conundrum of ... if I do "X," then I am by default NOT doing "Y." (But I want to do both!) Maybe the best thing is to spend time on what's important and what is a clear talent. For example, exercise is important, so I should definitely do that. Can't stay healthy any other way! As for talent, I could spend time on singing, which I enjoy, but since I don't have a good voice, I won't ever be as good at it as I might be in, say, playing the keyboard. Not to say I couldn't dabble in singing every now and then, but if I'm being goal-oriented, then probably I should choose my goals wisely ... rather than go after everything all the time. What do you think?

I'm the same way, supernova, although over time I've learned some skills to help me interact in groups as well. To explain why one-to-one is more interesting than group situations: I think it's both skill and motivation at play. Skill = in a group you have to be louder, generally funnier or more opinionated, and more energetic. Sometimes the conversation is also more superficial and flows less logically. Motivation = If you notice someone hogging all the attention (or trying to) that can be pretty demoralizing. In that situation, I lose interest in socializing. It feels like "survival of the fittest" (or loudest). Very irritating and not at all fun. If you're not in the center of the conversation, it's not really all that engaging. Some people are happy to just sit on the sidelines and listen. I don't happen to be like that. I prefer one-to-one, because I rarely have a bad time, like I do in groups sometimes. I remember this jerk of a guy, he joined a bunch of my friends one time, and admittedly, he was very funny. But he was, in fact, a jerk (I knew how he'd treated one of my best friends) and some of my friends knew that too. Still, they ate up all his stories, his jokes, etc. It was pretty hard for me to enjoy myself because I felt the whole group dynamic was just "wrong" somehow. Not that I felt he should have been shunned, just not enjoying such attention.

So how do you know if you're the "rebound" for someone who broke up with his/her ex? What if any signs do you watch out for? I've been thinking about it since a guy friend of mine broke up with his ex, then pretty much immediately started paying more attention to me. After a few dates I didn't feel comfortable with continuing, so I told him I'd rather be friends. To his credit, he took it well and still is a good friend. But really, if I HAD been interested in him, I still wonder if it would have been wise to date him so soon after. (I'm talking dating that would lead to a long-term relationship, not just dating for fun.) Do you guys have any rule of thumb about how long to leave a person alone after they've broken up with someone? It's an interesting situation, 'cause if you leave them alone for too long, they may start dating someone else!

Hey nero. I've struggled with emotions too. One of my friends from high school used to ask me, "Are you HAPPY???" It didn't sink on my till years later that, no, I HADN'T been happy. It wasn't about independence or not relying so much on someone. It was about taking care of my needs and enjoying myself. I felt insecure, and part of the reason was that I didn't know how to meet my own needs. So I always depended on others to make me happy, entertain me, help me feel secure, etc. I don't know if there are deeper issues in your life that you need to deal with (we all have deeper issues, it seems!) but aside from that, you can do things to make yourself feel happier. When you're happier, you won't need to cry so much. Are you lonely? Do you have women friends? If not, maybe you can take some baby steps towards developing them, like join a class that sounds like fun. Go for a walk. Sometimes we are not emotionally depressed so much as physically out of sync. You'll have more energy after you exercise (if you don't already). Do you like to listen to music? I find music a great mood enhancer. I love the Beach Boys (very happy, silly music) and the new soundtrack to the movie Music & Lyrics is a kick. Do you like to explore? Sometimes we get depressed because we're bored! I love to learn odd little things, or see something for the first time. Even people-watching at the park or mall can make you feel life is more interesting. You don't have to change in huge leaps and bounds. Often the very simplest action can make a big difference. I also agree with with herenow that a spiritual foundation is very helpful in life. When you believe there is Someone larger than you who is in control and cares about you, you don't feel so out of control. Take care! Hope some of this helps a little.

I agree. You should bring this up with them. Or else, just go ahead and make plans to join another quartet without them knowing it (maybe talk to your teacher?). Then simply let them know you're switching. It's not right for them to have that attitude and not talk to you about it directly. It's pretty immature of them, if you ask me.

I've felt the same way, teardrops, and even had similar experiences, though not quite as severe, I think. Had an abusive relationship, plus some social awkwardness as a result of childhood stuff. You sound like a friend of mine (and like me, in a way) in saying you don't like anyone. She likes people fine at first, but then starts liking them less and less as she gets to know them. I think it has to do with too high expectations and not fully understanding the role of a friend. Most people are just running around doing their own thing and trying to make it in the world. There will be times when they disappoint you, but do not let that get to you. Me, I have a habit of taking offense at rudeness or thoughtlessness. But just today it occurred to me that sometimes these things just happen -- disagreements, people taking out their stress on you -- and they're really not worth thinking about or stewing over. I mean, if it's a HABIT, then it's bad and worth talking over. But if it's just a random occurrence, then maybe it's better for both of you to forgive and forget. Life DEFINITELY isn't perfect. I do think you'll find people out there who you'll like and who will like you as you are. It may take time, but they're out there. I know because one friend I've gotten closer to, I wrote him off when I first met him years ago. Sometimes people change over time, and sometimes we change over time. Which is a good thing.

A lot of us think about this issue, Caldus. Know that you're not alone. Tonight my roommate headed out to the movies with a friend who has suddenly become her best buddy. They hang out at least once a week, and I was thinking to myself, "I've been looking for that kind of friendship for YEARS, but no one I know seems to want it too." Every woman I know seems to want to do her own thing with family and other friends. How do people develop friendships? I'd say "matching" is one way. As caro33 pointed out on another thread, people want to be with people who are similar to them. I would add that people want to be with those who remind them of their best self. Clearly, a new potential friend will be drawn to me more if I'm friendly, funny, interested in them and willing to share about myself than if I'm quiet, serious and opinionated. If I were starting over in a new city, I'd join groups. I'd schedule myself so I have at least three weekday evenings occupied with classes, volunteer gigs, or other events. There's no way to meet people other than to be out there. Personally, I like classes because there's structure and it's safe. I'd say that if you let people know you're new in town and looking for things to do and people to hang out with, someone will suggest good places to make friends. When in doubt, you could also join a matchmaking, Dinner For Six-type service.

EXACTLY!! I just want to have a passion for what I do and be really good at it, but both things take time, and I'm usually onto the next thing by that time. Great that you've gotten more into your music, though!

How do you decide what to spend your time pursuing? Sometimes I feel as though I have 25 different interests and I'm trying to follow them all. As a result I veer wildly from one thing to another, often barely scratching the surface. Almost like I can't help myself from jumping from thing to thing ... exploring new music, trying to read books and magazines, improving in X, Y or Z. I sometimes feel I want to CONSUME all these things. I'm always trying to expand my knowledge and live an interesting life. But I'm having a problem rooting myself for any length of time, which sort of defeats the whole purpose. Just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this? (BTW, I'm not ADHD that I know of. In fact, I'm so dedicated to my work that when I get off of work after a long hard day, I almost don't know what to do first.) Thanks in advance for your thoughts, comments, advice ...

Thanks Batya, Ellie, Caro. I appreciate your understanding and also your advice. I guess I need to get over my ego (or fear of looking foolish, if that's what it is) and try to develop better skills. One thing I do NOT have is a loud voice, but I've noticed that volume and energy are pretty well related to social skill. I have always been very "true" to myself and my feelings, so I have struggled with feeling fake when I put on a happy face and summon up energy that I don't feel. Maybe that's a sign that I should take better care of myself, so I *am* happy and energetic. Also, I agree, Batya, that it's worth developing skills, while still believing I have the right to be accepted as I am.

You know, caro33, that's a really profound point. It reminds me that people often want to be around people with whom they either share similarities, or WISH to be similar to. So people gravitate towards happy people because they wish to be a happy person or to be seen as a happy person. We move toward that which we admire. I've been resenting "skilled" people because I felt the adoration they sometimes get from others signaled that people thought the skilled people were "better." But perhaps it is more a matter of trying to find people whom you think are a match AND who is a match of your best self.