monsieur

But what if the girl is so extremely attractive to you, that you find her to be the most attractive girl you have even seen in years, the most. Would it still be possible for you to handle a 'friends only' relationship with her?

I agree with you that 'guilting' the other person is wrong. But I find the 'friendship' thing doesn't really work as you described.... it is more where the relationship starts out as having potential, the woman decides she is not interested, then turns the guy into a 'friend'.... it is a complete rejection that can't be taken any other way, but most of us guys will go along with the friendship thing because we want to be around the girl that we desire, even though our psyche's are very damaged and our subconscious mind mulls over the feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness over and over again. So 'friendship' is in no way a higher order than the love interest.

But don't you see that you are rejecting him, you are basically judging him as being faulty, or inferior, basically unworthy of any kind of emotional bond from you, even though he sees you as completely worthy of the same. It is hard to fault him for feeling some resent, as you are saying he is worthy of a lesser type of bond being friendship, but due to him not having the magic qualities you are requiring for more, he is relegated to an unrequited status, unworthy of your devotion or love. And to think you are critical of his feelings of resent! How do you think he feels deep inside??? And don't say that tired line of 'just because I am not attracted to him doesn't mean he is faulty or unworthy' because it does mean that, if he had the magic quality you were looking for, he would be worthy. By virtue of the fact that you are not attracted to him means he is lacking in something that would be the spark that attracts you.

bottom line is, it seems to be common to find women that say they have 10 good male friends, but very uncommon to find men that say they have 10 good female friends. So it appears that there is a big imbalance of expectations and motivations that may or may not be clearly out in the open.

Depends how much she is worth to you. If she is absolutely incredible and has your heart twisted all around, then maybe it is worth losing a bit of dignity and pursuing her for as long as it may take, which may be never. Some really really high quality girls will not get in to a relationship unless the guy really works unbelievably hard and just about jumps through hoops to woo her. If it is the type of girl that only comes around once in years, it just might be worth the pain of having to do all the work and put up with the unrequited attention. If you NC a girl like that you are guaranteed not to succeed, at least the other way there is still a chance.

my thinking is that NC is very risky, the old saying 'out of sight, out of mind'

I've had three long term relationships that started with the girl being the pursuer and asking me out, which wouldn't have happened at all if there was some kind of "supposed to" rule book that was to be followed.

Geez, I go to the gym a lot and have six pack abs and get attention from women for my looks, but it doesn't help one bit for my conversational skills when I really like a girl. I 'm hopeless at that, know it, and it is a catch 22 as the lack of confidence makes me worse at it which in turn builds the lack of confidence, vicious circle.

I'm curious as to how many female friends each of those guys has? Seems to me women love the attention of having so many male friends, with no intention of giving them any real love or their heart, meanwhile probably nearly every one of those 20 males would give you their heart in a minute.

well said dvlsadvc8... .you said it and thought it out better than I could have, but you absolutely hit the nail on the head, so true!!

but if it was her mom, and she knew he overheard, and she actually liked him, she would have been quick to explain 'oh, that was my mom' I'd say forget about her unless she really comes after you

good ideas, heartshock, but I think I must add the importance of her making some type of aggressive moves, the guy may think all she wants is friendship, no matter what, and he may be unwilling to ever make a move, even if it is killing him inside, she must step up the flirting and more touching if she wants more to come of this relationship

wasn't intending it as a personal attack, it just sounded like it was coming from an unrealistic point of view that was a regimented set in stone kind of way of thinking (the word 'should' really hit me) that had no respect for feelings or heart in such matters.... I didn't mean you were high and mighty, I apologize for my choice of phrasing which made it look that way.... it is the way of thinking that there are 'set in stone rigid rules' to this sort of thing that I found high and mighty, and that those that start to feel heartache are completely wrong and are scum for questioning those high and mighty rules of m/f friendships and I guess I responded strongly because that unrealistic point of view seems to be a common one I am hearing from many here, especially women that say they have lots of male friends and none of them are looking for more

well, Im a guy, and my advice to you is to crank up the flirting, touch him much more often, compliment his shirt and rub his arm at the same time, walk up behind him and tousle his hair a bit, try to suggest and schedule much more time together. text message and email him more. like I said, crank it up a couple notches and if you start to get through to him crank it up a couple more. good luck!

That sounds like an opinion coming from high and mighty "friendships have their own built in boundaries and in some ways clear spoken ones as well. The importance of the friendship should keep it where it belongs." So the 'importance' of the friendship should supercede the 'hearts and feelings' of those in the friendship? I think that is malarky. If one or the others heart starts to ache and yearn for a deeper connection, I say that is much more important to be honest about rather than worrying about 'the importance of the friendship'.

It's too bad you are rewarding her selfish behaviour. Since when is it that guys are 'supposed to' call? that is ridiculous

not possible, maybe superficial distant friends, but any more of a connection and for sure feelings would have to start to develop, it is only natural. If no feelings, then it is not much of a friendship then anyways. It seems only women have this strange concept of finding a guy attractive personality and physically, yet not at all possibly considering them someone they would have a relationship with. I think 99% of guys that find a girl attractive personality and physical would for sure have a relationship with them if the girl was receptive or better yet if the girl pursued them. And that goes for all these so called 'friends' relationships that the women seem to think the guy has no feelings for them. I guarantee if the girl showed some pursuit, those guys they think are only there for friendship would be all over them.

for sure email him, email is great especially for us shy ones, sometimes our shyness sends the wrong message, so it is good to reinforce the right message with an email I absolutely love it when a girl emails me, I am shy, and it encourages me and builds my confidence. If you like him and want to go further toward a relationship, the more communication the better.

yes, that sounds so much like he must have something else on the go at the same time, it is a shame that people are deceitful though and wasted your time by going on a 2nd date if he wasn't into it all the way you'll find much better, don't worry

for me, height, athletic looking, and dark hair, my head almost spins when I see a girl with that combination, especially 5'9 5'10 for some reason girls that wear glasses appeal to me too, too many people are preoccupied with contacts that seeing a girl in glasses makes her seem more down to earth

also good point Kevin I myself have improved way over what I was like in high school and college, I can talk to beautiful girls etc. but it is quick to fall back into nerves and stress on occasion, like if the conversation lulls or something.... the deep down personality trait of shyness and nonconfidence are pretty deep rooted, you can learn to work around it 99% of the time I think, but it is still there deep down, whereas a true extrovert that was like that from preschool age seem to have no worries or cares right from their root, and these are the most socially successful people it seems.

great point bobo, in my situation the girl is an absolute stunner, tall slim model, smart, witty, super confident, and she is actually used to having to give -10%, and guys are willing to put 110% effort and she just moves on if she doesn't get it or even if she does. Who knows if she will end up happy in the future, but for now she has many male 'friends' that she only considers as friends and yet they will all do anything for her, in varying degrees. Falling for a girl like that is torture, pain and confusion let me tell you. In the original posters case it may not be as extreme as with my girl, but I think the concept is similar.

I'm a guy, but had to reply because it sounds like my situation too, and it doesn't get any better with time, she has you in a position of being the one that has to do all the work, and it is an insecure stressful position to be in, yet it gets worse as the months go by. If a relationship does develop, chances are she will keep you slightly off balance and worried continually. I've had it both ways, and the relationship where the girl is crazy about you and calling all the time and wanting to be with you all the time is much better.

thanks for the inspirational post, helps those of us that try and stay hopeful

Shy guys usually are extremely sensitive too. So rejection is an extremely painful thing to us, to the point where we often avoid even trying for something that we really really desire. I'd say your only hope is to be more aggressive. If you don't, then it is likely never to happen, even if he has a major crush on you. I've gone many many months absolutely crushing and heartaching over a girl and wouldn't ever have dared to make a move myself. And the heartache is painful, but it is a slow long pain, compared to the extremely paralyzing fear of actually making a move. Good luck!