monsieur

what a great uplifting post, Prenkle!! Thank you for your thoughts, everything you said makes perfect sense to me.

thank you for your thoughts, I'm taking it all in it sucks a bit though, because I wish my girl was a 'yes-girl', I think it would match well with my 'yes man' tendencies I am not as inexperienced as you think (or as I must sound), I have had a few long term relationships. My personality is such that I almost never will fight, I might resent if mistreated, but I pretty much avoid fighting with someone I care about, I could go through a whole relationship without a single fight.

I'm wondering why you would reward his very poor behaviour by having sex with him? Reading on this forum alone there are guys that are trying to be so good and nice in so many ways and women seem to ignore them, then I read this about a guy that is a piece of crap and yet you reward him. I can't figure all of this out.

I'm still a little confused.... I know what passion is outside of a relationship, I am passionate about my work and love to talk about it... that kind of stuff definitely makes for a more interesting person I agree.... but I am wondering about the passion thing that defines the difference between 'just friends' and 'boyfriend-girlfriend'.... how can that passion be sparked and blossomed and helped along and nurtured and grown? Girls: what are some things that a guy has done that you suddenly felt your passion levels jump way up, where maybe before you felt indifferent? Guys: what are some techniques that have worked for you?

thank you for the thoughts

What are some things that can be done to build passion in a relationship between two people? What are some steps that can be taken to begin the growth of passion, to start a small sprout of passion and have it build into something great? Any hints would be appreciated. Girls, what kinds of things can a guy do that endear himself to you and cause your passionate feelings to grow?

I wasn't attention seeking, it just simply touched a nerve in me, that is all. I guess I am out of the mainstream way of thinking. I feel like I really want to get to know and connect with a girl before sex should be even a consideration. I don't like the idea of having sex with a girl that I hardly know and are not in love with. For me, I have to start out as friends with a girl, and I would hope to end up as her boyfriend too, well before any sex is involved. I want the connection, the love, the intimacy, all of that well before any pressure of sex is involved. ok, so Im not just wanting to argue, I feel it is an important point. I remember when I was younger how much pressure I felt to have sex with a girl as soon as possible, it comes from friends and peers, if you are hanging out with a girl and haven't had sex yet they would look at that as some kind of failure, like 'you aren't boyfriend and girlfriend yet until you have had sex'. I still feel that is so wrong. So for me the important question is 'what is the difference between a girl friend and a girlfriend?', I think it is just different stages of the same thing, of course not all progress to the next stage, but a girlfriend should start out as a girl friend, and the turning point (which may be a gradual thing) shouldn't be based on sex. This makes sense to me, I don't know why you think it is just attention seeking.

I feel for you, because the nervousness thing can get so strong for me too that I want to avoid it at all costs. The physical pain and stress of nerves is so extreme that I totally avoid any possible situations of rejection. It doesn't get better with age either, if you ever do muster up the will to try and then fail, it sets you back even further than when you started. I haven't found any easy answers.

So I'm completely wrong on this one? It should either be a friends only thing, or else if it is more than that that sex is the important thing? Maybe I do have a different view on things than most people, if sex is what it is all about then that is the way they want to live their lives. I can get sex at anytime I want with some loose girl that means nothing to me, what the hell good is that. What I am looking for is a deep deep best friend loving lover relationship, caring, holding, thinking about, loving..... sex has nothing to do with that , sure it can be part of it, but it doesn't have to be, and the other stuff is way more important...... that is why I took offence in the first place, because I believe the original question that was answered so bluntly with "the difference between the two is one is getting some and the other isn't"... that was so rude and offensive. So the original poster used the word difference between friend and lover, bad choice of words as many seem to assume 'lover' means 'one to make love with', whereas I think it should be 'one who loves'. The ambiguity could have been avoided if the question was phrased 'what is the difference between a boy friend and a boyfriend? And I sure as hell hope that 'having sex' isn't the answer to that one. ok, heythere, since I've misunderstood you so much so far, what is your answer to that question? what is the difference between a boy friend and a boyfriend?

ok we are arguing word choice now I think the basic original question was the difference between being a woman's male friend and being a woman's male BOYfriend... that seems obvious to me what the original poster meant. Now you have turned it in to a simple sex or no sex thing, then you deny it and call me weird. I expressed disappointment that being more than a friend had to automatically mean sex to you. I think there is way way more to building a friendship to more than a friendship that has nothing at all to do with sex. That is my point. You can call me weird all you want, but I think you have a one track mind.

ok, then that is better.... I think alot of women are scared into keeping a so called "friends" relationship cooled off because they are afraid of the sex or can't picture the sex part, but if that was just put on the backburner and not thought about even, it could be so much more relaxed and fulfilling and after 'friends' became more comfortable with some touching it might progress toward more intimacy and cuddling etc as they take it one step at a time and it doesn't seem so drastic..... if I am friends with a girl and want more out of it, I don't want her to instantly assume I am asking for sex and have a kneejerk panic reaction to the thought... just as friendship is a slow building process, I think friendship can slowly segue into more without just having to be an overnight instant 100% shocking change, which your sex or no-sex definition entailed.

So you are saying there is no such thing as no sex before marriage? I think you guys are really disappointing. I know for me I could be totally in love with a girl, a total lover of that girl, and want to cuddle and hold and be with her all the time, more than just a friend, and no sex has to be involved.... sex could come later, and it would be great, but it shouldn't be the defining thing involved. It sickens me because I see slimy guys get a girl to have sex right off the bat, and instantly it is a 'lover' relationship, whereas a good guy might court and develop a quality quality relationship with a girl and fall deeply in love with her for many many months and not have to have sex involved. Which relationship is better may I ask?

quote: That's simple. One's getting some and ones not! Maybe I'm being over sensitive, but your above comment made it sound like the whole thing is about sex or no sex.

try and spend more and more time together whenever the situation makes it appropriate, try to increase the 'touching' part of the relationship, like when it feels natural to touch his arm, do it.... more and more it will get more and more natural, until the time is right for caressing etc.

can you explain further re: attitude vs. shell?

heythere, I'm assuming you are female Is that really true? the whole thing comes down to sex???? So if a woman wants sex from you, you are in for all the rest of the benefits, but if a woman doesn't want sex with you then forget about the deep connection and emotional bonding too?? How disappointing.

I know what you are saying, but Ilse's words actually made me feel better and cut the anxiety a bit. I know that probably sounds pathetic, but my heart is pulling me so hard that any hope feels good to me. She did contact me today and we will probably do something together in the next couple of days. I know if I can just get out of my 'shell', and be more of a real person around her that I have a shot. So far all she knows of me is the awkward nervous version of me, and I feel that is what she is rejecting, as someone said before it makes her feel awkward and nervous too. If only I could learn to relax and be able to think straight and the fun person I am to be with come out, I know I have a shot. She still likes me even as I am, so if I was to improve I think her heart could open for me.

I feel for you. Sometimes I wish that I could be the one that has all the options and has more than enough on the go that it doesn't even phase them to dump someone or not even contact them or care about it. I hate being the needy one all the time.

yeah, I have a real problem with rejection too, I don't handle it very well, one small rejection is enough to get me to withdraw completely for a very long time and the feelings of self doubt and unworthiness flows in in waves. I've mostly made an unconscious decision to avoid rejection at all costs by not taking a chance in the first place.

yes, I guess emotionally unequipped is just a part of the not having confidence part of the picture I find that I go into relationships where I am judging myself, and the person I am with is judging me (in my mind anyway), but I don't really judge the person I am with at all, they could treat me like crap and I would believe it is my own fault due to my own shortcomings.

I hear your words Dako, but I think your words are just a symptom of something different that you are actually feeling inside. And I can totally relate to your 'stick a fork in it' comment, I feel for you.

Glad to hear I'm not alone on this. I'm not even sure it is a matter of 'not at the moment', I wonder if it actually gets worse as we go, after bad experiences and stuff, when I was younger I used to just fall into a relationship and it didn't seem so bad, now I am around thirty years old and I feel so much stress the instant I meet someone and start thinking about possibilities. It feels like my emotional vulnerability gets worse all the time where I feel physically knotted up inside from the stress.

quote taking small steps. Just become friends first and move slowly. Give each other your space and take the relationship to another level when YOU are ready. omg, that is my exact way of doing things and it is really messing me up fall in love with a girl that just wants to be friends, I am so screwed up I can't even believe it

I'm scared by my own emotional vulnerability. I feel too much attachment to a girl too soon. I question my own words and thoughts too much. I get anxiety and fear so easily due to the unknown and lack of control in putting yourself out there. I almost feel physically sick with a churning stomach the more I like someone and want them to like me back. Avoiding the whole idea of getting in a relationship altogether seems like the only solution. That is depressing, but not nearly as stressful.

Anyone else feel that they are just not equipped emotionally to handle dating and relationship stuff? Like just the stress and thought of the whole thing starts to gnaw on your insides. Like when you like someone you feel all mixed up inside and can't think straight. Like when the person you like can almost destroy you just by little things they may do or say?