monsieur

wrong? I know what happens in my life, and I AM a major "spark" extinguisher... I have all kinds of situations, I'll be standing in a bar and a girl will absolutely throw herself at me, and after not too long I have lost her again, or a girl will go to great lengths to get friends to set up a date with me, only for me to extinguish the spark before the end of the date, and on and on and on it goes....

You are probably right, but my character flaw isn't one of 'arrogance' of good looks, it is more of the fact that I am totally conscious of my lack of easygoingness and great personality, so I feel that my looks are my only strength, and not a strong enough strength to boot. And through the years I do remember comments that still sting, like one girl I overheard talking to another, saying 'he is so cute, it's too bad' , meaning 'too bad he is so lame and boring and nervous, otherwise he would be a potential boyfriend'

AHHH I'm going insane with this whole attraction and dating and love thing. My sister had a really good looking, nice boyfriend, and she dumped him recently to go out with another guy that isn't even half as good looking or nice. I know I'm good looking and I am maybe too nice, get called a nice guy alot (and yes, I know I've read all the nice guy stuff on here, I don't agree that I do it to be manipulative, I do agree that I do it because of a deep down low self esteem that is ingrained in me and not repairable, anyway, that's a different topic).... but anyway, I got friendzoned by a beautiful girl, I tried so hard to show her my love and all she wanted to be was friends, and now I see her with a new boyfriend and the guy is half homely, bad haircut glasses, doesn't look anything like what a model looking girl like her should be holding hands with!!! I'm like * * *, is there no hope!!! My strengths do not matter to women, they go for some kind of strange "spark" thing that I do not have the ability to ignite and especially keep going. I am like a spark extinguisher. The fact that people think I'm good looking actually makes it worse, because when you are good looking and don't have any success with females, people think there is something wrong with you, which I guess maybe they are right.

I can't see how a close relationship can possibly be built without at least daily contact, emails once or twice a day for sure.

real life face to face stuff can be even more confusing

You ask some very good questions, aggie.... I wonder the same things... I remember when I was young, I was awkward and shy, and remember seeing another kid my age that had 3 or 4 girls as friends and really interested in him. This was in grade 6, and then by the time he was in grade 12 I remember he had a long string of girlfriends...... I never got started, I just felt too shy and never really connected with girls at that young age..... I finally got a girlfriend around grade 12, but it was awkward too, and she wasn't very good to me, taking advantage of me. but I ended up with a number of girlfriends, often falling into relationships when drunk, but it was not easy and I would accept poor quality relationships just because I would take whatever came to me. I am better now, but still nowhere near confident enough to even be a little bit of a casanova. I don't just take what comes to me anymore, but when a girl comes along that I like I often feel really poorly underequipped to woo her and it seems that I expect to fail when I really want a girl. It is a shame, because I know that my deep down personality traits fail me in one of the most important things in life, which is to find a good quality fulfilling relationship. So, I guess to answer your original question, I say that it is a natural ability, and those of us that are shy and awkward never can totally overcome those limitations.

I agree ren.... it is a shame that people won't just be honest and give straight answers, they always need to make up an excuse and drag along someone's feelings. It's terrible and hopefully karma will catch up to them for that. The thing where he says that she always tells him he is 'reading too much into it' and 'overanalysing' is especially damaging, because it sounds like she is being doubly dishonest, his senses are probably correct in the way she is treating him, yet she sinks him even further by telling him to ignore his senses too. Strange that people act this way, but it sure looks this way from where I'm sitting.

probably not, but she is the one he wants, so I guess he is willing to take it as it comes she's not about to change either I don't think, well to do parents, spoiled very beautiful girl, had guys chasing her continually all through high school and still he's a big boy though, he made his choices

the butt smack is great, as long as you don't mind him doing it back too I say go for it!

well, they have kind of a strange relationship, on again off again, she is more worried about what her parents think, so she keeps him at a bit of a distance, but he does get sex once in a while, and he still has to work hard to keep things 'going'

I'm still skeptical.... I just can't see the NC thing resulting in anything but never seeing her again. A friend of mine pursued an extremely attractive but little bit spoiled girl that was way out of his league for a couple of years, and she eventually gave in to him.... if he had NC'ed her I guarantee that he would never have succeeded with her. I was actually amazed at his perseverence because I thought he had no chance, but contrary to me he had alot of 'game' but was not that good looking. She eventually fell for him, I don't know how. oh, and by the way, by 'pursued' I don't mean stalking, but continued attention and going out of his way to see her and talk to her etc.

I know where you are coming from. I get that alot too, especially in groups, say like sitting around a big table for a few hours, someone will invariably comment, "you are so quiet".... it does make relationships hard to get into because often in the first few dates especially, I will find my mind goes completely blank no matter how hard I try to think of something to say... so lots of awkard silence happens..... if you figure out a solution, let me know, because I've missed out on many possible good relationships by being deemed boring. I'm extremely good at email too, but talking on the phone or in person, especially if I'm a little nervous, is extremely hard to not be boring.

yes another thing I think about sometimes is how love is supposed to be the greatest emotion and just the greatest overall concept as well, yet so much pain seems to go along with being in love alot of the time...

you've got me all wrong, I don't think of women as robots that can't think for themselves, I prefer aggressive intelligent women and I didn't say all outgoing guys are players, I just said that all players tend to be outgoing sorry for getting in these silly arguments looking back at the original posters comments, a thought came to my mind "things in life worth having don't always come easily" sure, the outgoing guy would be the easier route to take for her by a long way, but it may be possible that the shy more difficult guy might be the real gem that she could be missing

isn't it impossible to be a shy player? being a player is kind of by definition a guy that hits on alot of women and won't think twice about having more than one relationship going on at a time and dropping one girl for the next over and over... I guess maybe it is possible to be that even if you are shy, but not likely to actually achieve any of it

true, but it is a guarantee with the shy guy that he is for sure not a "player"

thank you yin, it's nice to not be criticized for my foolish heart for a change and my friend is still pretty good to me, she invites me on long walks on the beach and dinners and stuff, she just doesn't feel it romantically for me like I do for her. I would do anything for her to help her, it just feels so right for me to, she gives me a purpose, something I care for, someone to love....

it's an emotional thing, so I don't think intelligence has anything to do with it And for sure you are not weaker, on the contrary you are much stronger. My heart is my weakness, it causes me to put myself in situations that are not necessarily the best path to take to avoid trouble, but I am compelled to follow my heart, even if it means that I will be wasting time and be doomed to have a broken heart in the end.

but Dogg, you are just as guilty of making the decision based on knowing nothing about the shy guy too? So you are saying the shy guys that are awkward and not having game are an automatic bad choice. I still disagree and think that the shy awkward guys can make extremely good devoted boyfriends. The outgoing confident guy with game might be a better bet for a quick one night stand with no emotional attachment though, I would agree with that.

let me expand on my last post, I am that shy guy type, I will be awkward on the first few dates. If we do break up, I am not a bad breaker upper, I will just slink away and wallow in my own sorrow. I have so much love to give, and when given attention and love from someone I like I give so much back. You can call it needy, but I love to communicate and be thinking and in the thoughts of the one I love. I would never ever cheat on a girl. I would hardly even give her even a tiny bit of worry of that. I have experience, but I am still shy and still like it when the girl takes the lead, that is just part of my personality.

yes for sure, if I really really am attracted to a girl and want to love and be loved by her, I could probably do the friend thing for years, maybe very subtly hinting once and a while for more, but always and every day enduring the heartache and pain of unrequited love. It's a suffering existence, but ending the friendship and not being around her at all would be even more painful suffering.

reading the conclusions of this thread has made me a little bit more sad and depressed

From what I've seen and of friends I've known over the years, the kind of guy that has the ability to go up to a complete stranger in a mall and start a conversation like that is also the type of guy that will do that while he is in a relationship too, and often ends up cheating or dumping many girlfriends as he goes along. The shy guy on the other hand, usually becomes very devoted to one girl and would never ever hit on or make moves on another woman. If she treats him right usually he is hers forever. Good luck!

youre right, of course she doesn't, but if she is at all interested she WOULD have explained herself, by not explaining herself one can really assume that she is probably not worth his time

I come accross that all the time. I think it is because we are attracted to the type of girl that can fall into that category... the 'princess' type, always was attractive and in a good family where they were pampered and spoiled a bit, and if they do not get your hard work and attention they will look elsewhere. We have to decide whether it is worth it, sometimes the girl is so extremely attractive to us that it is worth it. To walk away and settle for a girl that doesn't twist us up inside with desire would be a let down.