Guys that help the damsel in distress....

[Seraphim]

I don’t think there is a “ lowest form of man” unless we are talking about child molesters and murders. I think there are a lot of people that have accumulated damage over their lifetime . 

[sunday_luthier]

I just recently got out of a 2.5 year relationship that resembles what I think the OP is referring to.

I didn't get into this relationship just to be "a rescuer", but because the woman in question was physically attractive, had a sense of humor, and that, yes, when we spent time together, there was a noticeable and positive shift in her mood that made me feel good about myself too.  She loved the attention I was giving her and she was very affectionate and kind to me (in retrospect, it was probably what people call love bombing), and never hid the fact that she suffered from depression.  I thought "okay, we can do this"...  I definitely didn't feel like a simp then.  Her negativity was usually brought on by her troubles sleeping, headaches, the shared custody of her daughter, and her loneliness.

But we would spend time together and cuddle and it felt great. 

And then slowly, over time, she shifted from seeking my reassurance and company to using me as a target to release her negativity.  It wasn't really about me trying to lift her up anymore, but about her trying to bring me down to her level of misery.  I tried to be compassionate, I tried to be firm, this led to silent treatment, then long, seemingly constructive talks, make-up sex, affection, love bombing, rinse and repeat.

I knew something was't right, and when I felt she was guilt-tripping me, I would call her on it, tell her it wasn't what expect and tolerate from the relationship, she would make a backhanded apology, rinse and repeat.  I tried to convince myself that I was standing up for myself by TELLING her these behaviors needed to change, but by not taking drastic measures (ending the relationship), I was SHOWING her that she could keep using me as a doormat.

She was blowing hot and cold, Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, and I would adapt to whatever mood she had decided to dress up with that day.

2.5 years of this.  Last fight we had, I knew a long talk, an apology, a nice restaurant would have gotten me back into the "high" zone, but I simply didn't have the energy for it anymore.

So, to answer your question, I was definitely not "drawn" to toxic behavior.  But once it seeped in, I couldn't really see it.  The highs were absolutely everything anyone could ever want in a relationship (the sex, the cuddling, the little favors, the laughs, the kind words), and I felt like I was the king of love.

From an outside perspective (when talking about my relationship woes to friends, my therapist or on this forum), any one of the numerous situations she put me through would have sent a guy with normal self-esteem running. 

So many events (trips, meals, dates, birthdays,...) could have been simple, enjoyable experiences, except that she would covertly create drama and chaos out of the blue to make me feel guilty and inadequate.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

. I dunno which one is worse, those women who exploit that, or those men who willingly allow to be exploited. 

The oldest profession is all about that. There are high maintenance divas and divos everywhere. There's also  prince charming fairy tales.  

 

 

[Kwothe28]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The oldest profession is all about that.

But at least with "the oldest profession" you get sex. Its honest and transactional. You give money and she provides sex. This is even the lowest form of that. You dont get anything except some kind of a delusion how she will somehow date you because you donate money to her. Spoiler alert, she doesnt even know who you are. I mean look at this example. "Oh my Queen, I want to donate money to you for the hair you already got". I cant respect that nore consider it a man. He has his "man card" declined. Its not honest and its not even transactional. This is peak simp behavior.

[itsallgrand]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But at least with "the oldest profession" you get sex. Its honest and transactional. You give money and she provides sex. This is even the lowest form of that. You dont get anything except some kind of a delusion how she will somehow date you because you donate money to her. Spoiler alert, she doesnt even know who you are. I mean look at this example. "Oh my Queen, I want to donate money to you for the hair you already got". I cant respect that nore consider it a man. He has his "man card" declined. Its not honest and its not even transactional. This is peak simp behavior.

Might not even be a woman lol. 

Essentially, scammers? 

 

[sunday_luthier]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:26 AM, catfeeder said:

Sounds to me like this isn’t a person who will deal with you on practical matters. She’ll use your desire to work these details as a game to force you to grovel and acquiesce before she’ll respond, and she’ll continue to toy with you about them.

Skip that. Nothing is worth dealing with her anymore. You finally did the smart thing, and it makes no sense to allow belongings to be used to blackmail you into submission.

I’d change my locks so the keys are useless, and I’d file a small claim for a court to get your money back instead of attempting to deal with her. I’d bet money she won’t deal with you otherwise, she’ll just turn it into a circus to humiliate you without ever complying. Don’t save small court as a last resort— just go straight there, and hopefully when she’s served, she’ll comply rather than face a judge.

 

4 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

Might not even be a woman lol. 

Essentially, scammers? 

 

 

There is a woman in France who sells water from a bath she masturbated in...

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

Might not even be a woman lol. 

Essentially, scammers? 

Yep, and Nigeria isn't the only place where there are teams of people who go into an office everyday and spend their shifts romancing 'marks' online. They groom lonely folks to fall in love with them over time, and as they make plans to meet in person. Boom! Suddenly, an emergency happens and the trip is off unless the mark sends the romancer sums of money... This can go on for months or even years, with the same mark often sending more and more money to resolve the romancer's problems.

[yogacat]

9 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Yep, and Nigeria isn't the only place where there are teams of people who go into an office everyday and spend their shifts romancing 'marks' online. They groom lonely folks to fall in love with them over time, and as they make plans to meet in person. Boom! Suddenly, an emergency happens and the trip is off unless the mark sends the romancer sums of money... This can go on for months or even years, with the same mark often sending more and more money to resolve the romancer's problems.

That's nuts. I haven't know anyone (including myself) in my personal circle who has been a victim of a scam, so I feel somewhat sheltered from this fraud ring. Nigeria's economy is obviously in some dire straits if people are turning to this as an occupation. It's like the 'wolf of wall street' in Nigeria!

But, considering how much money is being sent around, it must be working.

[catfeeder]

28 minutes ago, yogacat said:

That's nuts. I haven't know anyone (including myself) in my personal circle who has been a victim of a scam, so I feel somewhat sheltered from this fraud ring. Nigeria's economy is obviously in some dire straits if people are turning to this as an occupation. It's like the 'wolf of wall street' in Nigeria!

But, considering how much money is being sent around, it must be working.

Yes, it's working, and this relates to your other thread about the questions. That 'vision of romance' thing sounds like the kind of stuff these scammers would ask. It gives them a template to morph into one's perfect fantasy.

[Coily]

For the sake of this discussion I'll break it into, White knight/Simp, the Gent, and the happenstance man.

Working from last to first, the happenstance man typically will see a woman in a situation of need and help; he has no motives, nor even contemplates there could be any ramification than being genuinely helpful.  They will help just about anyone in need.

The Gent usually will go out of his way to help a woman as he has an internal code of honor. Now he won't go to extraordinary lengths once the situation has resolved, but he will have a paternal nature to how he thinks about a situation.

The Simp Knight will do anything thing he can to keep his presence around a woman known.  He will see a female wanting something, and just give it to her to try and win favor. Basically they are a sex pest, who don't get sex, but think by buzzing around a woman's orbit he will eventually win the prize of her.

There are a lot of women on social media who will seek the Simp Knight, mostly to exploit their wallet. These "men" are more than willing to throw money.

[yogacat]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:58 AM, catfeeder said:

and this relates to your other thread about the questions. That 'vision of romance' thing sounds like the kind of stuff these scammers would ask.

Yes.

I always take those types of comments with a grain of salt. Granted. I've had those types of questions asked with people I've met IRL through work or school. 

But definitely food for thought!

[dias]

On 5/6/2024 at 3:14 PM, sunday_luthier said:

There is a woman in France who sells water from a bath she masturbated in...

The holy water!!!

[dias]

On 5/7/2024 at 6:54 PM, Coily said:

There are a lot of women on social media who will seek the Simp Knight, mostly to exploit their wallet. These "men" are more than willing to throw money.

The thing is, why there are no simp damsels to throw money on us haha Life is unfair.

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, dias said:

The thing is, why there are no simp damsels to throw money on us haha Life is unfair.

Here‘s one for ya!

 

Deep internet theory goes, me as the traditional housewife is the female version of the simp! 
 

I’m just one big simp hoe for my husbands calves, it is true 🫡

 

Damsel in distress is intoxicating to some men I think when there is genuinely a damsel, and she is in real distress! The fairy tale elements seem to be - youthful innocent beauty, helpless and needing to be brought forward into womanhood. A “coming of age” female version. And for the men, there is a challenge or feat they have to accomplish to get to her and win/earn their prize. He is portrayed as capable and often has elements of an anti-hero or cavalier nature. This tale has played out in the Bible, mythology, fairy tales and folklore since before we know where it came from. 
 

Secretly I feel, if you are romantic minded (naive some may call it, or a general sop 🥲) as a female, you fantasise some element of being “saved” or taken care of, and as a man, they may revel in the helping! But, I’m not a guy, so I can’t speak for the men! 

Philosophy corner 8:45am 😆

 

x

[mylolita]

40 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Here‘s one for ya!

 

Deep internet theory goes, me as the traditional housewife is the female version of the simp! 
 

I’m just one big simp hoe for my husbands calves, it is true 🫡

 

Damsel in distress is intoxicating to some men I think when there is genuinely a damsel, and she is in real distress! The fairy tale elements seem to be - youthful innocent beauty, helpless and needing to be brought forward into womanhood. A “coming of age” female version. And for the men, there is a challenge or feat they have to accomplish to get to her and win/earn their prize. He is portrayed as capable and often has elements of an anti-hero or cavalier nature. This tale has played out in the Bible, mythology, fairy tales and folklore since before we know where it came from. 
 

Secretly I feel, if you are romantic minded (naive some may call it, or a general sop 🥲) as a female, you fantasise some element of being “saved” or taken care of, and as a man, they may revel in the helping! But, I’m not a guy, so I can’t speak for the men! 

Philosophy corner 8:45am 😆

 

x

All we need at this club is for you to like good coffee, and rock back on your school chair in a wonky circle at the arts block. Only attend if you feel a little anti-social and bitter sweet. See you soon! 
 

🥲 🖼️ 🖊️ 📚 

 

x

[mylolita]

3 hours ago, dias said:

The thing is, why there are no simp damsels to throw money on us haha Life is unfair.

Most men would just make the BEST OnlyFans “content creators” if they could magically be women for the week, and wouldn’t feel depressed or degraded about it one smidge.

 

I always think my husband would do very well and he’d be such a little sl*g. A perfect natural 🤣🤣🤣

 

I am so sorry Yoga 🧘‍♀️ 💜 that will be my only off topic joke this morning! Please forgive me!!! 😌

 

This is not great advertising for Philosophy Corner but it’s not all like this I promise! 🤓

 

x

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

He is portrayed as capable and often has elements of an anti-hero or cavalier nature. 

I have the perfect tune for that....🤪

 

4 hours ago, mylolita said:

I’m just one big simp hoe for my husbands calves, it is true 🫡

😆

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

I am so sorry Yoga 🧘‍♀️ 💜 that will be my only off topic joke this morning! Please forgive me!!! 😌

Forgiven. 😇

 

[ShySoul]

20 hours ago, mylolita said:

Secretly I feel, if you are romantic minded (naive some may call it, or a general sop 🥲) as a female, you fantasise some element of being “saved” or taken care of, and as a man, they may revel in the helping! But, I’m not a guy, so I can’t speak for the men! 

If I may join philosophy corner, I believe the male does revel in the helping. He is slaying the beasts that have tormented her for so long. He is helping to bring her up into the light where she belongs, giving her a chance to shine. 

I prefer to see it as a mutual rescue though. The classic fairy tale is the knight saves the princess. But I think the real romance comes when the princess does just as much of the saving. Two people hurt, lost, broken. Each find solace and comfort in the other, each able to see something special in the other. They relate and understand each other and can fight their battles together, stronger as a team. 

That's just the naive sop... uh, I mean deep romantic in me. 😁

On 5/8/2024 at 9:43 PM, dias said:

The thing is, why there are no simp damsels to throw money on us haha Life is unfair.

Apparently there are simpettes (thank you urban dictionary). And I'm sure there are plenty of males making OnlyFans/Twitch/wherever content out there. But we're more used to the idea of women being valued for their looks, so it's still more prevalent for women to do that and men to be the ones viewing. 

[ShySoul]

While there are women who take advantage of men and men who fall for it, I'm thinking there might be a missing category for men and women. Isn't it possible for men to contribute not because they hope to get anything from the woman, but because they want to to support her business venture? It's all for fantasy, so they'll indulge in it and in return help her out., But they aren't hoping for more. Likewise, for some women they could very well be doing it because they enjoy it and actually treat their fans very well.

Apparently simp shaming is also a thing and the term gets thrown around even when it's not called for. Really comes down to the individual. 

[Batya33]

I think it depends on what the business venture is, the ethics of it, whether it is legal or not etc. Obviously it's a free country.  But I have plenty of women acquaintances who would refer to MLMs as "business ventures" for example -that is true- technically  - but I'd question anyone who "supported" by buying into as a salesperson to further the MLM scheme. 

Same with these websites that don't have to do with personal relationships at all and capitalize on questionable stuff -again it's a free country just not sure I'd use "business venture" or "support" in this way.

[yogacat]

6 hours ago, ShySoul said:

If I may join philosophy corner, I believe the male does revel in the helping. He is slaying the beasts that have tormented her for so long. He is helping to bring her up into the light where she belongs, giving her a chance to shine. 

I prefer to see it as a mutual rescue though. The classic fairy tale is the knight saves the princess. But I think the real romance comes when the princess does just as much of the saving. Two people hurt, lost, broken. Each find solace and comfort in the other, each able to see something special in the other. They relate and understand each other and can fight their battles together, stronger as a team. 

That's just the naive sop... uh, I mean deep romantic in me. 

Interesting philosophy, indeed!

It's definitely a complex dynamic and can be viewed in many different ways. I like your perspective of the mutual rescue, where both parties are able to find healing and growth through their relationship. And I agree, it takes strength and courage to face one's own demons and allow someone else to help in the process.

My ex was always the knight in shining armor, but looking back, I realize I had my own armor and sword to wield as well. I loved that part about him, but I also wish I had been able to see and appreciate my own strength and power in the relationship. 

I recall one time when when first started dating, my apartment flooded.

He took off of work and came over and helped me clean up and take care of everything. He brought me flowers too. I was so grateful and touched by his gesture, but later on in the relationship he turned into a controlling, manipulative person and I wished I could have reminded myself of that moment when he was just genuinely being kind and helpful.

But I guess that's the beauty and lesson of hindsight, right? :) 

[Kwothe28]

56 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I recall one time when when first started dating, my apartment flooded.

He took off of work and came over and helped me clean up and take care of everything. He brought me flowers too. I was so grateful and touched by his gesture, but later on in the relationship he turned into a controlling, manipulative person and I wished I could have reminded myself of that moment when he was just genuinely being kind and helpful.

People are rarely black and white. Bad people are capable of good deeds and good people are capable of bad. Hence why you often here “They were a good person” in documentaries about serial killers. Its rare that you will encounter somebody genuinly evil. Or even genuinly good for that matter in the sense that they are without flaws. Its important that its not something that is a very big “red flag”(for example the guy fron the other thread who is lying somebody 15 years younger about age). And its important that they have some good quality. For example your guy had compassion which is a plus. But you will rarely encounter example that has only good or only bad qualities. Question is whether you can live with them. As you saw, your guy had a very bad case of being controlling as well. 

Also, there is another thing. People at the start are always trying to bring on the best of themselves. And not only that, you rarely even can see flaws at start because passion is high and you see the world with “rose colored glasses”. But after a while, all those masks slip. Your partner cant keep the facade all the time so they might slip up the masks. And you will no longer see the world with rose glasses so you can notice that.

[boltnrun]

Yeah, my ex husband encouraged me to be a stay at home mom and wife. He said "I don't see why you need to be stressed out all the time. I can take care of the financial stuff." Sounds nice, right? But when I expressed an opinion on something he would say "You don't contribute so you don't get a say." He also called me "spoiled" because I drove a nicer vehicle than he did. Um, excuse me? I "contributed" by caring for our child, cleaning, cooking, buying groceries and generally keeping our home. And HE said he didn't want me to work! Also, HE chose the car. So I decided to go back to work. Of course he whined about it because dinner wasn't ready at 6:00 pm like he had gotten used to and he kept telling me I didn't "need" to work, but I reminded him what he'd said about me not contributing. He wanted me at home so he would have total control, not because he was truly worried about my stress level. Oh, and he didn't want us to have any friends and I tend to make friends at work so that was another factor. No, he didn't abuse me but he definitely wanted that isolation factor. 

And he's not a terrible person. He's a good father and a hard worker, but he had some serious blind spots when it came to husband/wife interactions and what a woman's wifely role "should" be. That was a major reason why I divorced him. 

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

People are rarely black and white. Bad people are capable of good deeds and good people are capable of bad. Hence why you often here “They were a good person” in documentaries about serial killers. Its rare that you will encounter somebody genuinly evil. Or even genuinly good for that matter in the sense that they are without flaws. Its important that its not something that is a very big “red flag”(for example the guy fron the other thread who is lying somebody 15 years younger about age). And its important that they have some good quality. For example your guy had compassion which is a plus. But you will rarely encounter example that has only good or only bad qualities. Question is whether you can live with them. As you saw, your guy had a very bad case of being controlling as well. 

Also, there is another thing. People at the start are always trying to bring on the best of themselves. And not only that, you rarely even can see flaws at start because passion is high and you see the world with “rose colored glasses”. But after a while, all those masks slip. Your partner cant keep the facade all the time so they might slip up the masks. And you will no longer see the world with rose glasses so you can notice that.

Thank you!

Yes, he had a lot of compassion and was so nurturing otherwise. That's what made it really difficult. It wasn't until we were a few months in that I invited him to a happy hour with my bosses at the time and my female best friend. 

After the happy hour, he accused me of sleeping with my boss. I was dumbfounded. I tried to break up with him but he apologized profusely and the cycle began.

He had very bad retroactive jealousy.

I think he looked at me as someone that needed saving and he took up that role as a way to justify controlling me. It was a toxic dynamic for sure.

And you're right, in the beginning when everything is new and exciting, it's easy to overlook or even justify the flaws. But as time goes on and the relationship becomes more stable, those flaws become harder to ignore and the true colors start to show.

It's definitely a learning process and I'm grateful for the experience and the lessons it taught me. I've come out stronger and more aware of what I want and what I won't tolerate in a relationship. 

It's weird because my long term relationships outside of that, they weren't anything like that, so I don't know why I was attracted to this type of behavior. 

[Batya33]

I think some of this discussion goes down the path of needlessly complicating things and really broad assumptions.  People get together and stay together for all sorts of reasons and reasonably healthy people move towards pleasure and away from pain.  Reasonably healthy people deal with their pasts and whatever happened to them in a reasonable way- we're all human so obviously we can find ourselves acting like our parents or relatives or whatever but there's a broad range of how it affects interactions or choices.  At least in my marriage most of our interactions are dependent on what's going on that day. Most of our conversations are not about The Relationship or our Personal Growth or like that. Thank goodness -for me that would be boring and overwhelming.  Once in awhile -sure of course! My general sense is when the relationship is focused on talking about the past, or The Relationship there's some unhealthy stuff going on.