Advice on girl I'm seeing

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, TeeDee said:

No because she won't know why.  It's game playing & expecting her to read your mind.  

Agree. Don't play games. Do whatever you've been doing and don't let insecurities govern your decisions with games. 

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

After 21 days there is no pattern or consistency so please don't mess this up with tat-for-tat games.

Exactly, I agree.  For him as well..

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't play games. Do whatever you've been doing and don't let insecurities govern your decisions with games. 

Wiseman2, on one hand you just said that after only 21 days there is no pattern or consistency...

But on the other hand, he should continue doing what he's doing and maintain his pattern otherwise he's playing games? 

Which is it? 

It's okay for HER to be inconsistent thus confusing him but not okay for HIM to be inconsistent and break a pattern otherwise he may confuse her and he's playing games?  

Can you clarify?  As it stands it makes no sense. 

I think it's fine if he wants to cut back on texting, as you said it's only been 21 days, too soon for any sort of pattern to be developed.

For him, NOT as a game. 

 

[Sindy_0311]

9 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

I just get a gut feeling she's still not sure what she wants from this, and still doesn't fully trust me given she's been hurt previously like she said. 

Wow!! Three weeks of dating and you already talked about meeting the parents and meanwhile she says she doesn’t know what she wants from it? To me, she sounds like someone who didn’t heal from her past relationship and is getting into something she can’t manage. She is inconsistent, tries to act cool and is seemingly playing games, which are behaviors that often lead to sabotage (believe me, been there, done that…) 

My advice is you stay consistent. Don’t change your texting pattern. If you want to send her a good night text, do so. When she declines an invitation, instead of suggesting another date, just tell her to reach out to you when she is willing  to see you again. Also, try not to talk to much about past hurts or big emotional stuff in early stage. Keep it fun, lighthearted for the first two month. And once you start to know someone better, open up more… this girl has been in your life for 3 weeks, don’t give her to much credit from the jump. Remain skeptical, but kind. Observe, and decide whether she is a good match for you. If her behaviors makes you feel uneasy, address it. And if she doesn’t correct it, then decide to move on if you have to (the sooner, the better) You don’t owe her nothing. someone said something funny that goes like that: I’m sure the jar of jam you have in your fridge is older than this relationship… 

IMO you did it all right. Now the ball is in her court. The key rule here is: don’t invest more than she does… 

Good luck to you! 

[Wiseman2]

20 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

...

But on the other hand, he should continue doing what he's doing and maintain his pattern otherwise he's playing games? 

Consistency equals confidence. Push-pull PUA games like suddenly not texting is flaky and considering it's a relationship in its infancy, it's better to be confident than resorting to games. As far as her so-called games, she's on vacation. 

They're feeling each other out and she doesn't seem "mercurial", just on vacation not well known. The most important thing is getting the ex baggage out of the picture and not superimposing it on to budding relationships. 

It's always better to lead with confidence. 

[rainbowsandroses]

24 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's always better to lead with confidence. 

I agree however the OP has been coming on quite intensely, cutting back on all the texting is a way for him to lessen the intensity and regroup. 

OP, she's on vacation, I say leave her be and allow her the space to think about you and wonder about you a bit, the space will allow YOU to regroup as well. 

If she's still interested she will reach out when she returns or sooner. 

Don't suffocate her, dont push, it's the kiss of death especially this early in.

This isn't push/pull necessarily which gets a bad rap, it's two people trying to come together and finding the right pace that works for both of them. 

She did say things were moving too fast and you needed to find a healthier pace (paraphrasing).

Best to respect that and slow down including the texting. 

JMO.

[LootieTootie]

11 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

...Prior to her coming she did open up to me about how she'd been hurt previously.... but right now I just get a gut feeling she's still not sure what she wants from this, and still doesn't fully trust me...

So I just quoted what stick out to me. And thats because I am speaking from experience and so it doesn't mean it applies to your situation. So you can totally disregard my post.

When Ive dated people who told me early on they've been hurt and are trying to be cautious, I found out later that they weren't over what happened to them and they projected a lot of insecurities onto me and the relationship and it ruined any opportunity of growth/progression. In the end, I just got fed up with people telling me this or even me feeling this self-pity for what happened in the past. If you aren't in the right mind frame to date and find love, just don't date and drag someone down with you.

I keep writing this and this should really be my signature. Early on in dating, everyone should listen to their gut. If your gut is telling you that your interaction or communication is signaling doubts and insecurities, its because on a subconscious level, you are reading between the lines.

Any way good luck and I hope she does reach out to you and plan for an alternative plan to meet up.

[JamesTaylor7892]

Thank you for your advice guys, I do appreciate it. One thing I guess I would say with regard to the texting that I didn't mention in the original post is that when I saw her Saturday night and we were opening up to each other I asked her straight up if she liked the 'good morning'/'goodnight' texts or if it was too much. She said she liked it, as it shows the guys willing to make an effort. Again, this guy she was seeing before who wasn't completely honest with her apparently would text her sporadically and she didn't like that.

However, with that in mind I personally feel it needs to be a two way street. Sometimes she'll text to see how my days going but more often than not its me who reaches out to her. I think putting my foot on the brakes slightly with it wouldn't be a bad thing at this stage and again like all of you say, its only been three weeks. I think leave her to enjoy her holiday and if she wants to reach out to talk she knows where I am. 

[kim42]

I think that if change your texting habits and text her less, she could think that you're less interested and pulling away. It could create some confusion in my opinion.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, kim42 said:

I think that if change your texting habits and text her less, she could think that you're less interested and pulling away. It could create some confusion in my opinion.

Yes I think consistency in texting patterns even after just 21 days is a good thing - but seeing patterns as far as what this person is like/how compatible you are/personality traits is absolutely not long enough. 

[TeeDee]

12 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

on one hand you just said that after only 21 days there is no pattern or consistency...

But on the other hand, he should continue doing what he's doing and maintain his pattern otherwise he's playing games? 

Which is it? 

He started it so he needs to keep it up.  The good morning / good night texts are a throw away IMO but once that pattern begins, stopping it indicates fading interest & causes more problems.  

11 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree however the OP has been coming on quite intensely, cutting back on all the texting is a way for him to lessen the intensity and regroup. 

It never should have been started in the 1st place but now that it has, backing off from that causes more problems.  

5 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

 I asked her straight up if she liked the 'good morning'/'goodnight' texts or if it was too much. She said she liked it, as it shows the guys willing to make an effort.

Especially because she equates these texts with effort to stop now will cause her to conclude that you no longer care.  She will see it as a sign of disinterest which will cause more problems & may break you up.  

In the future do not start this.  There is no way out.  There is also no need to speak to somebody daily when they are new in your life.  Establishing this pattern of too much too soon backs you into a corner. 

If you are going to stop doing this you better explain it to her.  She's not gonna understand because she already told you she likes it.  She's looking for reassurance & taking this away from her will cause her to conclude you are unreliable & just like her EX who hurt her.   It's not logical.  It might not be fair but you are the one who offered up this daily morsel.  

[rainbowsandroses]

On 4/15/2024 at 6:40 AM, JamesTaylor7892 said:

She did send a message the following week saying things were moving quite fast and that we should pace ourselves at a normal speed...

^^So if a man is coming on intensely, texting morning and night every night and the woman he's dating tells him they need to slow down the pace, he should still maintain the same pace?

I don't agree with thar AT ALL.  It's completely disregarding her feelings and request to slow down.  It's disrespectful. 

In her shoes I would be completely turned off; receiving yet another good morning/good night text from him may even repulse me under those circumstances.  Ugh.

It's certainly NOT a way to gain her trust, it's the opposite.  

There is nothing wrong or bad about taking a step back here, imo you should! 

On 4/15/2024 at 6:40 AM, JamesTaylor7892 said:

however today when I suggested getting a nanny to meet up this weekend when she's back she said she's already booked a spa weekend away with her friend. Nothing wrong with that of course only she hasn't suggested an alternative date to meet yet, just left it like that.

^Not surprised.  She's backing away because it's too much.  You're overwhelming her.  She may feel suffocated by it, I would!!  

It's important to pay attention and when a woman tells you things are moving too fast and that you need to pace yourselves to a more normal pace, that's exactly what she's telling you - she's feeling overwhelmed by it.

She's turned off which is why when she returns, she's chosen to spend the weekend with her friend rather than you. 

She's not over her ex.  That's obvious to me by how she speaks about him.  She complains that he was inconsistent, toxic, whatever, yet she chose to stay in that relationship, there's a reason for that. 

She may want to like the "nice, stable guy" but it's important to look at her history and listen to what she actually tells you and how she responds to you -- her actions. 

She says one thing but her history of remaining in dysfunctional toxic relationships says another.  And now with you after only three weeks, upon her return she'd rather be with her friend.

Pay attention!  Thats my final advice. 

Good luck whatever you decide...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yogacat]

Just wait until she gets back. She's a bit all over the place right now because of the past, I get that, but 9 out of 10 if she's interested she'll get in touch when she gets back, especially because she's the type to let her feelings known, she just is.

Just don't freak out trying to win her over every single day. Women go much more on vibes. If something feels off (even if she's not currently sure), then that's what she's going on. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Let her bring the attention on herself without being heavy about it.

Also keep in mind that even if she is planning stuff with her friend, you simply don't know how much she was planning before (like she may have planned a spa weekend before you guys even met). 

If she can juggle a girls' weekend, 50/50 custody, the holidays, dating you 3 weeks, organizing with her friend and family obligations, she may want that one free Sunday where she can just sit there with Netflix and not make plans. It doesn't mean she doesn't like you or isn't planning on seeing you. You just don't know what's going on.

With that said, please don't pretzel yourself in knots trying to prove anything. It never works, it makes you look too available, too overeager, too intense, too pushy. Just live your life, do your thing, be IDGAF. She's got to figure out if she wants to invest and prove herself as well. Let her figure that one out.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

With that said, please don't pretzel yourself in knots trying to prove anything. It never works, it makes you look too available, too overeager, too intense, too pushy. Just live your life, do your thing, be IDGAF. She's got to figure out if she wants to invest and prove herself as well. Let her figure that one out.

^^Absolutely!   Well said @yogacat.  

[jul-els]

Follow your gut. If you’re not comfortable with the way things are going, then you’re not. Don’t get stuck in your head or get overly invested. Keep your options open. 

[Sindy_0311]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^So if a man is coming on intensely, texting morning and night every night and the woman he's dating tells him they need to slow down the pace, he should still maintain the same pace?

I don't agree with thar AT ALL.  It's completely disregarding her feelings and request to slow down.  It's disrespectful. 

The question here is whether OP has to slow down texting or other stuff, like initiating dates, talking about parents, future plans etc… OP, tell me if I’m wrong but she said she enjoys your texts, and she « introduced » you to her mom and a friend of hers right? I don’t understand what exactly you have to slow down here…

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Sindy_0311 said:

OP, tell me if I’m wrong but she said she enjoys your texts, and she « introduced » you to her mom and a friend of hers right? I don’t understand what exactly you have to slow down here…

This^ reads to me like she was owning her part in how quickly things were progressing by introducing him to her mom and telling him she enjoyed all the texting. 

But she eventually found herself becoming overwhelmed by it, thus why she then told him they needed to slow the pace.  And why she has made plans with her friend the weekend of her return rather than with him. 

And not suggested an alternative date to get together.  She's losing interest.

As much as we dislike it, it's not uncommon for there to be a bit of back and forth or "push/pull" during this period.

It's been a mere three weeks!  To expect that things will never deviate from what's been the "norm" for three weeks is an unreasonable expectation imo.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

 I asked her straight up if she liked the 'good morning'/'goodnight' texts or if it was too much. She said she liked it, as it shows the guys willing to make an effort. this guy she was seeing before who wasn't completely honest with her apparently would text her sporadically and she didn't like that.

You seem to be hitting it off well and honest with each other. Please don't ghost her while she's on vacation especially since she likes the texts and the jerk before you did that.   Don't be that jerk.

As far as a spa weekend, that could have been planned even before you met. So breathing room is fine. Slow down and pace yourself means not rushing into combining lives this intensely. It doesn't mean being a jerk and ghosting her by refusing to text while she's on vacation. 

[catfeeder]

I think twice every day is too much. It's hovering. I'd dial that down to once a day, then every other day. This allows her to fill in the gaps if she so desires, and if not, I'd drop yet another day. This allows you to learn the pace at which she's comfortable. It also makes room for the fact that the intensity bubble around new dating gets popped as the real world must pour back into our lives. If we don't have enough going on with the rest of our lives, that's kinda creepy.

You raised the word 'mutual' and I think it's a good one, along with reciprocity. Making room for these is not a game. Learning a reasonable pace is valuable. If you're too proactive you prevent yourself from learning valuable information about the other, and you don't allow yourself to diffuse your focus to tend to other important aspects of your life.

[NighttimeNightmare]

Mmm yikes. What stands out to me is… Jesus, this is a lot for 3 weeks of knowing a stranger, yes, a stranger.  The constant obsessive goodnight texts, the little piece about how you “held eachother and kissed!” Like you’re afloat at sea, lost and lonely, and she’s a raft of safety you clung onto. It’s all just too much.  In fact, she said that… maybe that’s why she went out with her friends, etc. gaining some sense of normalcy and perspective, while you’re here hyper-analyzing every movement. 
 

do you have any hobbies or activities you enjoy? Go out and relax as an individual. You two can reconnect but don’t try to force an insta[nt]-relationship, you both are strangers getting to know one another. 

[JamesTaylor7892]

3 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

The question here is whether OP has to slow down texting or other stuff, like initiating dates, talking about parents, future plans etc… OP, tell me if I’m wrong but she said she enjoys your texts, and she « introduced » you to her mom and a friend of hers right? I don’t understand what exactly you have to slow down here…

Yes its true, she does say she enjoys the texts. I've backed off a little initiating conversations with her because I want her to enjoy her holiday but on a couple of occasions she has reached out to me which I like. I guess we'll have to see how things pan out when she's back in the country but the last thing I want is to pressure her, so I'm just going to wait for her to suggest when she next wants to meet.

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

Yes its true, she does say she enjoys the texts. I've backed off a little initiating conversations with her because I want her to enjoy her holiday but on a couple of occasions she has reached out to me which I like. I guess we'll have to see how things pan out when she's back in the country but the last thing I want is to pressure her, so I'm just going to wait for her to suggest when she next wants to meet.

This is an excellent approach. Much better than ghosting, game playing and deciding to cut back on what she likes in order to play some tat-for-tat games. Why start a power struggle because some people believe in arbitrary "rules"?

The issue she has is not texting. It's your contentious (or perhaps mercurial?) relationship with your ex. So try to fix whatever that's about rather than creating unnecessary issues.

  Smooth things out with your ex and custody issues so that you can focus on developing your budding relationship. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please don't ghost her while she's on vacation especially since she likes the texts and the jerk before you did that.   Don't be that jerk.

OP keep in mind she has two kids with this "jerk" who she willingly chose to remain in a relationship with for at least 5 YEARS.  Since her oldest with him is 5 years old. 

Come on man, pay attention!  You cannot and must not judge by just her words, judge by her actions and words.  

Here, her actions are she has chosen to spend the weekend with her friend at a spa, has not suggested an alternative day and flat out told you things were moving too fast and to scale down the pace. 

Please don't be that chump that disrespects her request and continues bombarding her with texts.  

No I disagree that things are going well.  Obviously they're not going well otherwise this thread would not exist and you'd be spending the weekend with her. 

Also you posted it's been 2-3 weeks you've been seeing each other.  We're all assuming it's 3, but if it's been two or 2 1/2, wow, this is all just too much. 

What women "say" they want and what actually attracts them and keeps them attracted are often times two entirely different things.

And I'm a woman saying this!  But I've witnessed it from my female friends and acquaintances, read about it on forums even this one, read it in books discussing the laws of attraction and experienced it myself. 

And please, let's stop calling this game-playing." 

It's called paying attention, listening, being respectful of what she's telling you and being smart.

Just some things to consider. 

 

[boltnrun]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Please don't be that chump that disrespects her request and continues bombarding her with texts.  

I didn't get the impression he's "bombarding" her with texts. I wouldn't consider one good morning and one goodnight text per day to be a bombardment.

But perhaps, James, you have been texting her all day every day? If so, then absolutely dial that back. You two are not in a committed relationship. Although if you were, all day every day texting would still be too much for me (although some couples just love doing that!)

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't get the impression he's "bombarding" her with texts. I wouldn't consider one good morning and one goodnight text per day to be a bombardment.

Agree. Also  "What women "say" they want and what actually attracts them and keeps them attracted are often times two entirely different things", is pickup artist rubbish assuming women are brainless bimbo's who don't know what they want. .  Listen to her to get to know about her, not rule book myths. 

[JamesTaylor7892]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't get the impression he's "bombarding" her with texts. I wouldn't consider one good morning and one goodnight text per day to be a bombardment.

But perhaps, James, you have been texting her all day every day? If so, then absolutely dial that back. You two are not in a committed relationship. Although if you were, all day every day texting would still be too much for me (although some couples just love doing that!)

No, absolutely not. Bombardment is definitely not what I've been doing, even from day one. In fairness I've got a full time job, go to the gym 3-4 times a week, have two dogs and my daughter who recently has been living with me 90% of the time. So frankly I have a lot on myself, just like her. I don't feel I've given her the impression I'm too available either but I guess I'm a bit old fashioned in that when I like someone I like to hear from them at least once a day. She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking.