NighttimeNightmare

I have several close life-long friendships but none of them are capable of injuring me to any real degree. Nor would I be putting this amount of time into them, they’re just different. Not necessarily less, just different

I get that but then why not ask questions to get to the truth? Obviously no one is forced to take the time to interact with the people who post here right. But if someone so chooses to it seems counter-productive to have, what reads to me like an agenda, and flip the script around into a narrative that isn’t really occurring in that person’s life. 🤷‍♂️ like don’t treat me like im some scummy pervert chasing a lonely old woman who is putting up boundaries to block my perversions, and then act like that’s what my post was about. Then when I say “oh hey that’s not what’s happening” it’s already a strawman at that point. Not saying you’ve done this, just giving an example

Exactly. I never said otherwise, that’s exactly it. They’re historical wounds that close relationships (usually familial and romantic) can bring out of us. it doesn’t make the relationship bad, or the person bad, it has 0 to do with the person. They’re just the mirror. it’s a good thing if you are willing to catch the issues and fix them. my issues don’t come out in run of the mill friendships because I don’t care enough. They’re different. They don’t affect me as much

Yes. That particular day I tried to take the phone out of her hand while she was using it because i thought she was doing something wrong. And she got mad and said I often think I’m right and everyone else is wrong. Don’t snatch things from her space like that, it’s a boundary for her. So I said well to me I am right and am I supposed to just sit and watch you do something wrong? Then she was like, yada yada this is what I mean, you can never admit you’re wrong. Yada yada. And said it’s not that I can’t offer correction, but to do that constantly makes her feel I think she’s stupid or something. She asked if anyone else in my life has ever felt as she does… and I said yes, often. I told her I was kind of shocked she’s been feeling like I’m bossing her around/controlling/ etc and she clarified it’s not often, but it’s enough. So I said that I don’t realize when I’m doing it, clearly, if it’s something she’s felt from me for some time. So I said “can you please let me know when I’m doing that”

It feels like nearly every time I a question and it’s commented upon I realize that what’s being repeated back to me is not what I’m experiencing in person, or what I meant, etc. It’s not that I’m taking offense, it’s that im trying to explain better and realign everything but it’s already too late.. an example is me making a statement about people’s worst traits come out in relationships. Like Jesus. Even that was taken in such a rigid and literal sense when I wasn’t meaning it that rigid like you’d see in toxic situations. I wasn’t saying “relationships make you toxic and bring out the worst in you!” I meant that really deep intimate connections tend to be more likely to trigger things people already have inside of them… like people who are very healthy in their friendships may become super anxiously attached in a romantic setting. Not a huge deal, but it shows the person what they need to work on that was hidden in more surface types of connections. And yea I’ve heard this from numerous psychotherapists who study the brain and human psychology for a living. So… agree or disagree. Maybe once again I’m not being CLEAR enough but it’s exhausting when I’m attempting to explain myself and people have an agenda and flip my story into something it isn’t. Wiseman.. you do it constantly. I don’t get it. You create a strawman and then run with it while iM over here trying to correct the story. Then, I miss out on being able to answer the kind souls who are actually trying to help and ask relevant questions and I’ve seen some of you do this to other people who have come here to post as well, so it’s not just an experience related to me.

People’s worse traits come out in relationships. You have to have some semblance of a relationship to “practice” healthier tactics. That’s not even me saying that, that’s come from the mouths of some really prominent psychotherapists, and I agree with it. I’ve been working on myself, actively, for a long time. As everyone should. But this new dynamic has brought to the surface some things I can refine. It’s not like I’ve been off p*sing about and now suddenly I want some sort of magic elixir. this one issue popped up, and I’m addressing it so that I can have healthy attachments.

Just to clarify, I’ve never put my hands on anyone, ever. But it was explained to me in therapy that stonewalling is abusive, laughing when people are crying is abusive, just generally being very dismissive when it came to emotions is being abusive. It was always my way or the highway, so…. But I wasn’t a name-caller, or a hitter, or etc. etc. I’m moreso unfeeling, cold, callous. Lack of empathy. Extreme lack of empathy. but since my diagnosis I have gained empathy. That’s sort of why I’m posting this anyhow, I have empathy, I’m caring, I’m trying to make sure I’m handling things in better ways. So this post wasn’t really to pick my issues apart, I was really just asking what it looked and felt like from healthier people, you know? Yes of course I said that, that was the first question I asked. She explained it to me and that’s when I said essentially “I’ve never realized it was coming across like that to you and I can’t seem to grasp, quite yet, when it’s ok to do it and when it’s not.. so could you please just let me know when I am doing it; that way I can learn the situations in which you’ve got an issue with the behavior and I’ll nip that in the bud” the situation in question wasn’t something inherently wrong, but it’s something she personally doesn’t like

This is exactly what im doing. Maybe it’s how I communicate, maybe it’s not clear enough for some people, but a lot of the responses here have me scratching my head. Like no, im not going to avoid and run from yet another situation that in all honesty has proven to be a great platform for me to heal some of my stuff. I’m not being abusive to her, im being thoughtful, aware, considerate, and she’s been generous with my faults and her willingness to be patient with some of the stuff. I offer the same to her with her things. Have you made some good progress? it feels unbearable to me if I feel like I’m being judged. I don’t even necessarily think she’s judging me in a toxic way, but it’s almost like this “how dare you” feeling that I’ve always struggled with, which I’m aware is the anti-thesis of vulnerability. What scares me for myself is the rage that follows. I have done this thought process before, and I suppose I’ll integrate it again, and come up with ideas that don’t have “rage” as a coping mechanism. Which honestly is partly why I made this post, I thought a few people may share stories of what the behavior looks like for healthier people who don’t resort to running away, rage, etc etc and etc. then I could fill my head and thoughts with those things and begin practicing in real time Thank you for your thoughtful response 🙂 it was helpful

We’ve become romantic but we haven’t had a talk about exclusivity I know that she’s been asked out twice recently, and she declined

Yes, we’ve progressed in the romantic department. And to be honest, even if we had not, I’d still be trying to figure out how to overcome my dysfunctional tendencies so that I could have have functional relationships

I have these same issue every time I get close to someone. Ignoring it isn’t the answer. I came here to try to gain some tools, not to further avoid things I’d like to get over. The only time these issues aren’t present in my life is when I keep all relationships at arms lengths. I’m not interested in doing that anymore With this woman, I have a platform to work out some of my issues, and I’m taking advantage of that

What makes you think I don’t? This post? This post is a microscope to a small fragment of my life. I’m here to talk about this particular relationship, because it outlines interpersonal patterns I have that I’d like to address. However, it’s not the only form of contact in my life. I host gatherings twice a month and am active in several meetup groups. Lol.

Both, IMO. Im not a fan of a partner telling me what to do, or me telling them what to do. My general belief is that you state your boundaries and needs, and the other person is then free to respect those boundaries/needs, or not. If they can’t/don’t/won’t respect your boundaries, you end the relationship. I don’t understand how begging someone to respect you, or you trying to control their behavior to fit your needs via the begging could be healthy or beneficial. Begging to be respected is a sign you should leave and find someone who values you in those ways (or just someone whose priorities match yours, because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being out til 3am). And on his side of things, you begging is going to seem like a “nag” that he’d do well to disobey. No one wants to be nagged or controlled You can’t beg someone to respect you, but you can respect yourself by exiting things that don’t work for you.

your narrative about my story is weird.

It’s the other way around for us. It seems we have the connection, it naturally formed, and there seems to be a lot of trust we’ve built up. Because we spend so much time and have gotten so close, there are a few things that have come up. There’s no constant conflict, there’s about 5x things have been brought up in the time we’ve known one another. That’s not a lot, or constant, or overwhelming for most people. To me.. it is lol. Ya but they’re legit things. Like me vocalizing a boundary. Like “hey when you do this thing, I perceive it as such and such, and it’s super hurtful to me so I need you to know that.” Then her response is like “I’m so sorry I didn’t realize it came across like that. I will be more careful going fwd.” It’s actually a really smooth and quick process, that I think is neat. I realize I trust her with my feelings. But… do I really want someone to be close enough to discover my flaws and be able to recognize them or be affected by them? I now have to really take into consideration how my behavior affects people, it’s tiring. That’s not the same as us having conflict constantly… we actually don’t. But I do have to be aware of my surroundings when before I didn’t care, I was just a raging @sshole and things were easier

This isn’t occurring. I tried to clear this up several times. This isn’t a situation where I’m going “hey I need space” and the other person is opposed. It’s nothing like that. I just meant that, if say, I’ve done something to hurt her, she’s not an avoider. So she speaks up. I am not used to this, I’m used to people avoiding, not communicating, etc etc So now that someone is wanting to communicate, it’s not as easy for me to retreat to me disordered ways. Does that make sense? Thank you it can be either of those things. I think when she tells me I’ve hurt her and she’s vulnerable, I feel turned on and close. It’s only been about 3x that this has happened in a year. And maybe 2x that I’ve been the one to express she’s hurt me. I guess when I do it I feel turned off. Like… a lot goes through my head like an objection to the fact I feel so much now and I allowed myself to be hurt in some way. Then an annoyance that I know I need to alert that person instead of ignoring them or blocking them out of my life. Then let’s say there’s some delay in her calling or texting me, it turns to anger like I feel angry at the fact I got this close to someone to the point they’re affecting me. and this only occurs when I actually get hurt. Which is rare.

Yes, I feel like im missing my armor and I just need to get away. Go to a new city. Meet new people. Etc Yes, but to be clear I wouldn’t say she’s not letting me. I didn’t mean to come across like this person is overbearing and controlling me. What I mean is… if I’ve wronged her in a big way, she will tell me. And there’s an unspoken expectation that she trusts im telling her if she’s wronged me. She doesn’t want me to hold that in and grow resentment, which aligns with what I’ve learned in therapy. So I try to put in the effort to speak up if she ever does wrong me. im learning that’s fair. It’s fair of me to bring my hurt to the table. That’s my decision. And so far she’s been so kind with her responses the few times I have done it. It feels healthy and mutual to me. it doesn’t happen often, but it’s so new for me that it’s almost exhausting. But I try to soothe myself so that yes, I can continue maintaining what feels like a very healthy connection for me. I know my need to run is not healthy, but again… armor removed. So what’s it feel like to a more healthy person, you know? Because I’m drawing a blank

Maybe it’s the way I type on here but again… let me try to explain myself more before this gets taken out of context I have a history of abusing women and stonewalling them. I’ve been opened about that on this board. So for me, It feels normal to not share, anything, ever, at all. Things that feel normal and safe for healthier people, are things I thought were “weak” or “stupid.” So now I’m trying to speak up and be vulnerable, and that’s scary. My instinct is to dismiss peoples needs, including my own. That isn’t normal! It’s not healthy, so I’m willing to try to navigate these new feelings of being vulnerable and being willing to speak up when I feel things. Honestly, this is a good thing for me I think in extremes. I feel in extremes. But what I do know is I’ve never tried to talk about my feelings with anyone. I thought it made sense to just not feel and then never communicate beyond that. So yes I do recognize I’m a historical stonewaller and while I’m not bringing up things that have hurt me every 5 seconds, nor is she, it still feels extreme to me. Like I said in my post.. it’s only happened maybe 5x in a year. But to me it feels extreme and little things feel very big and exhausting for me This isn’t happening lol. I just meant that I’m able to express myself with her, other people ive been close with in the past, that wasn’t allowed. I just was saying it’s there, I can bring things up at my discretion if I feel it necessary. But that alone is exhausting to me. It’s not for every hurt. And you’re right, she hasn’t really hurt me in any big sense. Like I said in my post, it’s mundane run of the mill type of things. There’s no abuse going on, no hitting below the belt etc. it’s just that the fact I’m making myself vulnerable, little things feel very extreme in my world. This is all too foreign for me. That’s why my here trying to obtain some new tools She’s not playing therapist. We don’t have conversations like that, nor have I told her anything about me being a stonewaller. She’s never been controlling or otherwise has she attempted to prompt me to sit down and have routine conversations and “share” or “feelings”. Lmao. This has never happened here’s an example of what happens. Recently she told me my coming across as controlling and a bit narcissistic and that it’s a hard boundary for her. I said ok, please let me know when I’m behaving like that and I’ll nip it in the bud. Convo over. The end. my issue is, now im realizing we’ve gotten too close to the point she’s picking up in this and has the potential to tell me about it. Now I have to be aware of it and try to fix it as to not abuse yet another person that’s what I mean by it’s tiring. I’m tired within myself it’s really nothing she’s done

. Getting stumped with this one and could use some guidance, trying to gain some skillset I clearly don’t have here. This is my first time having a connection with someone where we’re mutually sharing feelings about how behaviors affect one another and then making conscious efforts to change the behavior. I’m responsible for communicating and not stonewalling people, which I’ve historically done, but I’m having mixed feelings about it. with that said: I’m in a situation with a woman and we’ve connected pretty deeply (yes.. it’s the same woman, for those of you who were around for that.). However, lately I’ve realized the closer we get, the more issues pop up. Nothing major, just run of the mill things from being around another person so much. It’s easy for me to point out what she’s done, but when she does it to me I feel this is all too much and I don’t want someone knowing me in these ways, where they can see what’s “wrong,” and then I have to fix it. In the year of knowing her, it’s really only happened maybe 5 times. So it’s not often, but to me, the occasions are prominent because they take so much out of me. I’m a historical stonewaller, but now I know better, and I’ve pushed myself to the point of being honest about my feelings. ie: being able to tell her when she’s hurt me, and speaking up, and she’s been very validating and caring in regards to my feelings there, but even that is becoming too much… it’s tiring. I don’t want to communicate these things. It’s easier to just shrug and disappear. I feel weird that I’ve revealed she’s “hurt me” or that she’s done something to rub me the wrong way, and I just want to end the connection. I wish I could go back to my elusive state. I feel many different things, burdensome is one… “too much” is another… it’s easier when needs are irrelevant but apparently that’s the wrong way to connect. However, it’s as though in my effort to connect, I have bouts of feeling disconnected; closeness feels odd to me when I don’t have control. I feel more connected in my avoidance, but this person is good at not letting me retreat (edit: I don’t mean she follows me around and forces me to talk, I mean she’s been this amazingly safe presence for me to come to her with things and letting me know when I’m shutting down because I don’t realize I am. She’s never forced me to talk etc) , so here I am. Still, I have fantasies about “running away.” Like that I need to do something unpredictable to throw her off. I feel a strong urge to leave this place, to not return for months. Granted, it’s not unusual as I do normally travel a lot. But, I’m slowly realizing that my lifestyle of travel and being with disordered women who didn’t press for communication, only strengthened my own issues. Oddly enough, with this particular woman, a few times we’ve discussed our issues I did feel very close and safe, the vulnerability made me feel close. But it feels as though I can’t maintain that congruently. So it’s a toss up as to which one of those emotions take over: safety vs urge to run. The more safe I have felt with her, the more likely it is I’m tipped off into the fantasies. I don’t really understand what I’m supposed to feel or think. What do healthier people resort to in these situations? Surely it’s not running away. What does it feel like? I feel like throwing the baby out with the bath water and I’m half-expecting her to do the same. What do these situations look like in the minds of people who don’t feel safety in distance?

Ok wait. So does this mean that the visitation, see below: … was for sex and a potential relationship? Because it sounds like that was the case, why else would she need to have a discussion with him about how she “just wants to be friends” and so he “needs to sleep on the couch”? In an actual friendship, those things go without saying sorry, this whole thing rubs me the wrong way. calling it a friendship at every turn, but one does not have to explain to a friend that they’re “just a friend” and thus you won’t be sleeping with them [this time] when they visit this isn’t a best friend, this is a f*ck buddy.

Mmm yikes. What stands out to me is… Jesus, this is a lot for 3 weeks of knowing a stranger, yes, a stranger. The constant obsessive goodnight texts, the little piece about how you “held eachother and kissed!” Like you’re afloat at sea, lost and lonely, and she’s a raft of safety you clung onto. It’s all just too much. In fact, she said that… maybe that’s why she went out with her friends, etc. gaining some sense of normalcy and perspective, while you’re here hyper-analyzing every movement. do you have any hobbies or activities you enjoy? Go out and relax as an individual. You two can reconnect but don’t try to force an insta[nt]-relationship, you both are strangers getting to know one another.

If you don’t have any feelings for him, and you feel he’s just using you as a sounding board… what’s the point of the friendship? I think that’s what you’re trying to investigate? how long have you been hanging out with him? Some people are psyched to have someone that listens to them, and they get carried away because it feels good for them, they don’t even realize they’re doing it. You’re the one interacting with him and seeing the non-verbal cues and such… so you’d have to decipher if that’s it or if he’s a selfish attention-seeker. If you otherwise enjoy his company, I honestly dont think it hurts to just be frank with him. You can say it really light and carefree, “hey I noticed you don’t really ask about me very much. Why is that?” as I learn to navigate my own relationships in healthy ways, I’m now of the belief that if you can’t be transparent, open, and frank, with the people you’re getting close to — there’s something wrong. There needs to be a platform to ask your questions without hesitation, or feeling like you’re being “too much” … and, you can’t be manipulative or reserved in your questioning either. Meaning, the questions are also to understand the other persons autonomy, not to try to change them into something they aren’t. when you have these frank conversations, if their answers are something they don’t line up with what you want, then it’s your responsibility to put up the correct boundaries or necessary distance

You sound like you need the validation of men wanting you to make it through life why is that?

It depends I remember I struck up a friendship with a girl who lived down the road from me. I was 100% not attracted to her, but as a friend she was chill and could hang, so I was inclined to hit her up to hang out. We could carry on a conversation so.. it wasn’t that I was “using her because I was lonely,” it was just factual that we got along. She ended up developing a crush on me that was not shared by me. I thought we were just being buddies, and I guess she perceived that differently. I will say, I didn’t text her often at all, and we only hung out maybe once a month, twice a month on some occasions. It was a very casual friendship. but now I’ve got another friend who I am attracted to, we talk daily, and hang out one on one all of the time; but I’ve never hit on her, even though I would like to. So the absence of someone not making a move on you, esp an immediate move, doesn’t always mean they aren’t into you. I guess what I’m saying is none of us here can know what this guy’s intentions are. I think what matters is figuring out what you want and what your feelings are. If you’ve recently begun hanging out it may be worthwhile to naturally see where it goes, but having something drag on undefined (as far as your perspective goes) may not work for you and you’ll need to have a conversation with him. If you want to know what his intentions are, ask.

Ugh, why is this such a common thought process people have? The guilt from this line of thinking causes people to stay in abusive situations this is like a man saying “I asked her for dinner and she didn’t make it so I knocked her out with a cast iron pan. It’s her fault, she made me do it, she knew I was hungry and I get angry when I don’t eat!” Do you see how ridiculous that is? No one forced this person to pick up a cast iron and hit someone, this person blames others for their own actions. Same with cheating, you don’t cause someone to cheat, but cheaters are liars and will blame you for their faults. it sounds like this relationship made you feel unsafe and so you closed up, that’s pretty normal. You’ll learn to leave unsafe relationships sooner and earlier, as you’ll learn the signs, what they lead to [for you], and why these relationships don’t work. Instead, you stuck around, allowing the two of you to bicker back and forth, and he ultimately ended up betraying you. Do not be a receptacle for his blame. sure, you both played a part in everything that happened, you should have left a lot sooner, but you are not at fault for the cheating, and you are not the cause. You are the trigger he blames for his own inability to self regulate and exit relationships that don’t work for him. I highly recommend you get the audiobook “leave a cheater, gain a life” it will help you understand and unravel these thought distortions you’re having about you being the reason he cheated, you are carrying way too much guilt. “You made me do it! You made me cheat.” Oh please. You’ve got a magic talent to possess people? And if you do, why would you use that talent to harm yourself?